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View Full Version : "We have the military might to take total control on very short notice" -- High C.



ljb5
08-25-2005, 05:59 PM
On this thread (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=025470;p=2), High C said:


We have the military might to take total control on very short notice.Considering that we haven't been able to take control, I think this needs explanation.

If we have this ability, why haven't we done it? Does Bush like failure?

How can you use the military to take control?

The military is very good at killing people. Who should we kill? All the insurgents? Great. Who are they?

How do you tell an insurgent from a civilian?

Shall we just kill every male over the age of eleven?

If we have the ability to take control immediately who, in our government is advocating that we do this? Who is preventing us from doing this?

I can't believe the military commanders would sit idle while the troops are being attacked. Do you mean to tell me that commanders want to take control but someone has prevented them from doing this?

Other than Bush, who could prevent the military leaders from taking control?

Does Bush have any rich friends who are making a profit from a drawn-out war? (KBR, Halliburton, Saudi Arabia?)

[ 08-25-2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

Wild Dingo
08-26-2005, 12:40 PM
4) When we're done, get the hell out.leaving behind?... devistation desease poverty and resentment a long lasting memory throughout the world of your countries complete and utter slaughter of a society and people?


Anything less dishonors those who serveWell I dont see how... the people who serve would be dishonored by doing as you suggest.

The main sticking point I think most have with the present issue with Iraq and the so called "insurgents" is the straight up in your face fact that none of the flamin mongrel mad cow should be there in the first bloody place!

PRESENTLY... AT THIS TIME IN HISTORY... The USA is the sole "super power" but to blatantly disregard the other major players in the world whether individually or combined is the height of arrogance and sure to play a major part in the USAs eventual downfall.

Are you SURE absolutely without a shred of doubt that the USA has the power to do as you suggest to say China or India? Independantly or Combined? Do you have that sort of arrogance? Do you seriously think that the countries of the world will allow the US to take over and control or by your words invade so utterly (navel to bum) and stand by and do nothing?

The other countries of the world of their own may not have the power to retaliate but together? Sorry mate I just think such utter contempt and arrogance for the other peoples of the world is unacceptable.

Perhaps the leaders of our countries are presently hanging onto Bushs gronical hairs but given what you suggest do you honestly think that the people of our countries would tollerate such arrogance?

I wonder when the modern day Rome will fall and at what cost to the people of the modern day Rome... and at what cost to the peoples of the world

Jim Hillman
08-26-2005, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Wild Dingo:
PRESENTLY... AT THIS TIME IN HISTORY... The USA is the sole "super power"Dingo, why are we the sole superpower?

Wayne Jeffers
08-26-2005, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Jim Hillman:
. . . why are we the sole superpower?Maybe because we spend more on arms than all the rest of the world combined?

Wayne

TomF
08-26-2005, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Jim Hillman:
Dingo, why are we the sole superpower?Ever read Thucydides?

Major powers, in Thucydides' view, arise because it suits the interest both of themselves, and the states within their orbit. There are mutual obligations.

Sparta lost its position as the sole hegemonic power in Greece precisely because they did not fulfill their obligations. Athens took the opportunity to rise, and by fulfilling the hegemon's obligations, developed a sphere of influence of its own.

Everything old is new again.

[ 08-26-2005, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: TomF ]

Meerkat
08-26-2005, 01:48 PM
I doubt we will be a super power for long in the new century.

George.
08-26-2005, 01:51 PM
And of course, if you keep reading Thucydides, you get to find out what happened to the Athenian superpower as it got more and more arrogant, and thought it could do as it pleased and browbeat its allies into going along...

Jim Hillman
08-26-2005, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Wayne Jeffers:
Maybe because we spend more on arms than all the rest of the world combined?

WayneSorry Wayne but that question was directed at Dingo.

George.
08-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Learning from Sam, are you, Jim? ;) :D

Jim Hillman
08-26-2005, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by George.:
Learning from Sam, are you, Jim? ;) :D Actually I got that one from you George. :D

George.
08-26-2005, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by MIke:
Is it perfect? Nothing is perfect. But keep in mind, each one of us control most of the happiness and unhappiness that surrounds us, and that will help keep you on an even keel when things that we have no control over comes along.

Good post, Mlke.

ljb5
08-26-2005, 02:22 PM
I'm not sure we are a superpower.

We seem to be involved in stinky little war that we can't win.

If we're so powerful, how come we end up doing the dirty work?

WWheeler
08-26-2005, 02:37 PM
Well this sounds familiar:


Athens, which continued to demand financial contributions or ships from its allies, even when fighting was no longer necessary, became more and more powerful as her allies became poorer and weaker. In 454, the treasury was moved to Athens. Animosity developed, but Athens would not permit the formerly free cities to secede.
'The enemies of Pericles were crying out how that the commonwealth of Athens had lost its reputation and was ill-spoken of abroad for removing the common treasure of the Greeks from the isle of Delos into their own custody; and how that their fairest excuse for so doing, namely, that they took it away for fear the barbarians should seize it, and on purpose to secure it in a safe place, this Pericles had made unavailable, and how that "Greece cannot but resent it as an insufferable affront, and consider herself to be tyrannized over openly, when she sees the treasure, which was contributed by her upon a necessity for the war, wantonly lavished out by us upon our city, to gild her all over, and to adorn and set her forth, as it were some vain woman, hung round with precious stones and figures and temples, which cost a world of money."'
btw the Athenians raided the treasury of the Delian league to build the Parthenon.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
08-26-2005, 09:18 PM
But keep in mind, each one of us control most of the happiness and unhappiness that surrounds us, This myth has kept a lot of poor people in a bad place for a long long long time. :(

It is, quite simply, one of the largest lies ever told. It is part of myth of the capitalist society. Apparently, this myth only has to be right a small percentage of the time to be absolute gospel for all of those who support the idea that poor, disadvantaged, displaced, or otherwise oppressed portions of the population have only to "take up their bed, and walk" and all will be well. This myth does not withstand scrutiny, nor does it withstand the rigours of reality.

SandMaster
08-26-2005, 09:32 PM
This myth does not withstand scrutiny, nor does it withstand the rigours of reality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh you of little faith. ;)

brad9798
08-26-2005, 09:53 PM
Are you kidding, PMJ?!?!?!?

You debunk an absolute truth ... the one that has to do with us being (mainly) responsible for our lot in life.

It is BEYOND me that folks truly believe otherwise ...

It (happiness, success, etc.) is still out there ... some folks think it isn't ... THAT, my friend, is the sad part.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
08-26-2005, 10:16 PM
I don't have control over most of the happiness or unhappiness in my life. I was lucky. Oh no, I live in exactly the same reality as you do Jeff. Raised middle class, decent neighbourhood, public education, good health, etc. Lucky Lucky Lucky

Now... go tell your story to a poor black kid in the ghetto, or even better, some poor sumbitch in Africa or India, where many of our multinationals extract either resource wealth or take advantage of slack labour and environmental laws. How much "control" do those people have? Maybe they're just lazy.

Answers like yours are the reason America doesn't get a lot of respect in some quarters. (You don't seem to be very aware of the world around you.) ;) :rolleyes:

[ 08-26-2005, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

Katherine
08-26-2005, 10:29 PM
Apparently in PMJ's world, if you're born into poor circumstances you're doomed to stay there for your entire life and if you're born into a privleged life everything is always wonderful. :rolleyes:

Peter Malcolm Jardine
08-26-2005, 10:32 PM
I didn't say that, nor did I infer it. However, to reduce someone's success or failure in life to a simple matter of personal desire is tragically wrong. It is far more complicated than that, as anybody with any schooling in sociology, economics, psychology, or even basic societal history would know. ;)

I always get a laugh when a bunch of middle class hypocrites (myself included) get together to discuss poverty and it's reasons. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ 08-26-2005, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

Katherine
08-26-2005, 10:39 PM
You inferred that people's lives are nothing more then a result of what happens to them and that they have no control over choosing to make the best of a bad situation or seek out a better life for themselves.

Wild Dingo
08-26-2005, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Jim Hillman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild Dingo:
PRESENTLY... AT THIS TIME IN HISTORY... The USA is the sole "super power"Dingo, why are we the sole superpower?</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry for the delay Jum ol mate! But as I had to snore for a bit then wake an then there was this birfdy happenin an then I had to attend to some of the many of her highness's "to do list" then I had to eat then well then I have my sis an her partner turnin up to stay for a few days...

But mate Ive now seen it and will attend just as soon as time allows! :rolleyes:

WX
08-27-2005, 01:54 AM
The US is the sole superpower because:
1. The Soviets went broke through trying to keep up and general mismanagement of the states resources.
2. Britain went virtually bankrupt fighting WW2 and then lost it's resource base with the breakup of the commonweath post WW2.
3. The US uses 70% of the worlds resources.
The US through innovative production techniques developed during WW2 was the only country with a fully mobilized industry, workforce and resource base to cater to world demand for manufactured items post WW2.
4. The US was also quited well cashed up, britain paid for the use of lend/lease military equipment with gold bullion.
Oh and 5. The US took strategic control of the Saudi oilfields post WW2
Tha's my opinion anyway.

[ 08-27-2005, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: WX ]

High C
08-27-2005, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by WX:
...The US uses 70% of the worlds resources...:rolleyes:

Wild Dingo
08-27-2005, 09:50 AM
Jum mate my comment that you refer to was not intended as a negative comment but rather factual and hence the capital letters to make that distinction... deciding that capitals would differentuate between bold letters which would imply anger and some form or argumentative statement and just capitals to imply a statement of fact and not argumentative

Aside from that... without going into a long winded history lesson the crux of which you already are well aware of as we both know... the point I was making in my own way was that the US is presently the only power in the world in and of its own with the capacity to force coerce and invade with absolute authority simply based on its military might... it does have more weapons of mass distruction than any other nation on earth as I understand it... it has more military weapons air ground and sea than any other nation on earth as I understand it... and it has no hessitation in doing what it believes is right to achieve its goals within the world.

I was not intending by my words to antagonise anyone rather its bloody obvious to any but a blind deaf and dumb boy that this is so...

That being the case... while the US has this "super" power status and while it can and is presently showing in such places as Iraq that it is more than readily prepared to invade and conquor... it does appear from comments made by some that the US can do what it likes ergo "take control in a very short time" as an example... this is so of a small single country such as Iraq and this is so that it would seem possible that the US could concievably just roll along and invade and conquor any country it likes with seeming immunity and impunity... however

If that happens... and I have stated HOWEVER AND IF here... not implying I believe that the US will do this but however and if they were to do so... they may well achieve it and here is the IF... If the countries and nations of the world stay independant and individual it is possible... and now for the HOWEVER... however how long does anyone think it would take how many countries and nations would it take before the countries and nations of the world such as China and India who individually dont match the US military might but combined exceed it... how long would it take before countries that previously did not ally themselves would do so for the combined power to stop the US machine?

This my friend Jim and I do think of you as that a friend... this is simply a hyperthetical possibility a theorizing of the howevers and ifs of some leader of the present super power doing the reality of the statement of "We have the military might to take total control on very short notice"

It has an arrogance and a assumption that if the "we" being the USA were to decide to do so no other nation or nations of the world would attempt to stop the "we" (USA) from doing so... thus implying that the "we" (USA) could concievably "take control" of any nation of the world "on very short notice" and no nation would seek assistance from any other nation to stop the "we" achieving dominance and "total control" over their nation

It is an arrogance that history has seen again and again and an arrogance that leads to the downfall of that nation.

But no I dont believe you need me to tell you the "why" of the reasons that the US presently enjoys the sole "super" power status in the world... the reasons are such that you already are more than aware of them and therefore it would be rather redundant of me to type them in here... so rather than waste your time and mine my friend I shall not do so ;)

Meerkat
08-27-2005, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Katherine:
You inferred that people's lives are nothing more then a result of what happens to them and that they have no control over choosing to make the best of a bad situation or seek out a better life for themselves.Taking over Karen's role eh? tongue.gif

Meerkat
08-27-2005, 11:07 AM
We have the military might to take total control of High C on very short notice! Anything else will take months! ;)

WX
08-27-2005, 06:30 PM
I think I should point out my above post was not meant as just another piece of yank bashing (apologies to those sensitive southerners smile.gif ).
Any country finding itself in an economic or militarily superior position tends to make the most of it, it's the nature of existence.
As for taking control in Iraq, I think the horse has bolted on that one...well and truely.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
08-27-2005, 06:39 PM
You inferred that people's lives are nothing more then a result of what happens to them and that they have no control over choosing to make the best of a bad situation or seek out a better life for themselves. I'm sorry you misunderstood. I did not infer that. I merely stated that having a better life is not solely based on desire or personal effort to do so. Much of the world will have a life fraught with poverty, starvation, disease, and a whole host of other things I never had to face. I was privileged by birth, and I don't forget that. It's easy to decide that everybody has the power to better their lives. It means you don't have to DO anything about others. ;)

ljb5
08-29-2005, 07:55 AM
The thread got a little off-topic, but I really thinks this deserves some discussion, especially from High C.


We have the military might to take total control on very short notice.

-High C.</font> How would we do this?</font> Why haven't we done this?</font> Who has decided not to do this?</font>

Mrleft8
08-29-2005, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by Jim Hillman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wild Dingo:
PRESENTLY... AT THIS TIME IN HISTORY... The USA is the sole "super power"Dingo, why are we the sole superpower?</font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps he meant the "soul" super power... You know....Mo-town... Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gaye, Ottis Redding....