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Osborne Russel
11-02-2004, 03:14 PM
The city of San Diego maintains a 40-ft cross in a city cemetery, in violation of the constitution. Last night there was a rally:


Music, hyms, the Pledge of Allegiance and prayer opened the program. Two giant video screens played images of the Sept. 11 video attacks. Speakers included Mayor Dick Murphy . . . George Stevens, a candidate in a special City Council election . . . drew one one of the crowds' loudest cheers when he declared, "You can have a church without the state, but you can't have a good state without the church."

Stevens, who is a minister, added: "Anyone who believes this cross should come down is just as messed up as Satan." . . . A federal judge ruled in 1991 that the presence of the cross on federal land was unconstitutional.

-- San Diego Union Tribune, Tuesday, November 2, 2004I love the idea of a forty foot cross flanked by giant American flags giant screens showing Sept. 11 while the local bosses call me Satan through huge loudspeakers and urge continuing violation of the Bill of Rights and defiance of the courts. Who will be the Christians' Leni Riefenstahl? Who, their Joseph Goebbels? Who, for that matter, their Hitler? History has set the stage; all that remains is for individuals of the proper talent and disposition to step forth. Can they avoid the mistakes of the Nazis? Will the Fourth Reich last a thousand years? The movies will be in color this time.

Billy Bones
11-02-2004, 03:27 PM
What the hell...

...oh, wait...

California, did you say?

George.
11-02-2004, 03:33 PM
Don't worry, Ozzy. America is greater than her own fools. ;)

Elco's
11-02-2004, 03:59 PM
Actually Mr. Russel, I just returned from southern California and I find your remarks to be rather odd. True, you'll find certain behaviors there that you won't find any where else (or purhaps, they are just more open)....But I, for one, did not see the rise of any "4th riech", as you so eloquently put it. The "born again" exitement that your trying to create a furvor over is more readily found throughout the "bible belt". Perhaps, this made the news becuase it would be business as usual in South Carolina (home of Bob Jones U) but is a rarer occurance INSANEDIEGO.

This post looks more like an inflamatory bait.

Osborne Russel
11-04-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by George.:
Don't worry, Ozzy. America is greater than her own fools. ;) Thanks for the support, but I can't help wonder if they didn't say the same of Germany.

Osborne Russel
11-04-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Elco's:
Actually Mr. Russel, I just returned from southern California and I find your remarks to be rather odd. True, you'll find certain behaviors there that you won't find any where else (or purhaps, they are just more open)....But I, for one, did not see the rise of any "4th riech", as you so eloquently put it. The "born again" exitement that your trying to create a furvor over is more readily found throughout the "bible belt". Perhaps, this made the news becuase it would be business as usual in South Carolina (home of Bob Jones U) but is a rarer occurance INSANEDIEGO.

This post looks more like an inflamatory bait.1. Which part is more inflammatory, the part inside the quotes, or the part outside? A giant cross and giant TV screens of 9/11? Are you kidding?

2. Where do you suppose the people of San Diego come from?

3. Had you been in Nuremberg on Rally Day, but not at the rally, you would have observed the people not at the rally, and thus have formed a false impression.

Meerkat
11-04-2004, 01:29 PM
Gotta love those people like Elcos that wave the flag and spout about law and order and mom and apple pie and then applaud flouting the constitution and candidates for office that do the same! Exactly the sort of rank and file one would expect of a neosocialist party. You can't be a patriot and ignore the constitution!

martin schulz
11-04-2004, 01:44 PM
Would all of you, right or left be so kind not to use Hitler, 3. Reich, Goebbels... comparisons everytime you want to make a strong statement.

I have seen those comparisons on this forum quite often and they were never correct.

Osborne Russel
11-04-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by martin schulz:
Would all of you, right or left be so kind not to use Hitler, 3. Reich, Goebbels... comparisons everytime you want to make a strong statement.

I have seen those comparisons on this forum quite often and they were never correct.Sez you. What's the diff?

Jack Heinlen
11-04-2004, 07:38 PM
When a US president suspends The Constitution, declares himself dictator, holds mass rallies and torch lit parades with thousands of supporters mesmerized by his eloquence, then drawing a parallel might be valid. :rolleyes:

Until then, I'm with Martin.

martin schulz
11-05-2004, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Jack Heinlen:
...thousands of supporters mesmerized by his eloquence...That's probably Bush's main problem :D

Andrew Craig-Bennett
11-05-2004, 09:39 AM
:D

Osborne Russel
11-05-2004, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Jack Heinlen:
When a US president suspends The Constitution, declares himself dictator, holds mass rallies and torch lit parades with thousands of supporters mesmerized by his eloquence, then drawing a parallel might be valid. :rolleyes:

Until then, I'm with Martin.Hitler (who was eloquent only to the ignorant, for whom his broad appeal was difficult for everyone else to believe) got himself elected by taking an actual external threat and linking it in the minds of the ignorant, partly by way of their resentment of the non-ignorant, with their naive patriotism and bigotry, and converted the whole mess into uncritical enthusiasm, partly by giant rallies where the supremacy of symbolism to analysis as a moral proposition was asserted and celebrated.

An appeal to emotion, on this scale, is an appeal to violence, no matter how you slice it. Giant TV screens, giant American flags, and a giant cross illuminated by spotlights, are not assembled on an autumn evening to appeal to the intellect. It's Nuremberg by the sea.

I doubt that more that more than a few per cent of Nazis were psychopaths. The rest were just plain folks who were led to believe their values were in jeopardy. So to say there are no parallels until Bush invades Poland won't do. He already invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. "We have no further territorial ambitions" is what Hitler told Chamberlain, as I recall.

This time, they don't want lebensraum, they want Christian Nations. The Kingdom of Christ on Earth. Don't take my word for it, ask them.