Commander- as in ... JEEP

[brad9798]

JEEP!

FINALLY!!!

As a LONG TIME LOYAL JEEP owner ... (eight total for me ... 19, if you count my sister and parents)

The new JEEP Commander-

WOW!

Like an overgrown Cherokee ... I LOVE the squared-off design ... what a kick-a$$ vehicle.

Gonna get one next fall ... put my PT Cruiser in storage for my daughter's 16th b-day ( in six years)!

smile.gif :cool:

[ 10-23-2005, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: brad9798 ]

[merlinron]

loyal jeep owner here, too. have three right now and have had one or two of some sort all my driving life. never a problem with any of them.... the worst is a currently owned 90' cherokee tool hauler that leaks oil, but it's got 263,000 mi.,so i don't fret about it.
that commander is nice, i've always liked the reg. cherokee and was p.o'd when they jerked it. the few that i've seen on the local lot are pretty pricey though,($39,000) but they are lux models. kind of targeted towards the hummer crowd.

[brad9798]

Agreed, Matt!

For just me, I miss the Wranglers I've owned!!

But with three kids ... well, the extra room is needed.
-------------

YEA! I was mad when they dumped the old Cherokee a couple of years back ... after 2001, I believe!

I just like the looks of the Commander. Plus, a Hemi will be available soon!!!
-------------

I don't worry about gas-guzzling ... at least not from a personal point! My office is three miles from my home ... and we walk to the grocery store in the neighborhood.

My current tank of gas is a month old ...

:cool:

[cs]

I love Jeeps also, but I need to say something and don't get too mad at me.

The best off road vehicle (military don't count" that I've personally been aquanted with is the Suzuki Samuria and even gets great gas mileage.

http://www.off-road.com/suzuki/samurai/images/samurai1.jpg

Wish I could find a photo of the one I used to own.

Chad

[brad9798]

Actually I've heard that from other folks too, Chad.

Heck, why would I get mad??

-------------

DAMN, Matt! 45 miles each way! That is scary! :eek:

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

I had a YJ once... and a corvette at the same time.... and had nothing to drive :D

The new commander looks cool. I hope it doesn't break as much as the rest of the line does.

[cs]

Brad some folks get a little defensive about their jeeps, esp. when you compare them to the Suzuki. ;)

What makes the Samuria great is the short and narrow wheel based combined with light weight and excellent gear ratio and front to rear balance. Of course these same things makes it a death trap on the open road. It is the only steet legal vehicle that I've been in that has warnings about this all over the interior.

Chad

[dmede]

the commander? it's an LR3 ripoff scaled up to H2 size. do we really need another oversized kid hauler that can't get out of the mud?

if jeep followed through on some of its other concepts that would be cool:
http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/photos/gladiator-jeep.jpg

You want to go offroad? get a real truck, a Toyota Land Cruiser:
http://www.arches.uga.edu/~redwards/1982-FJ40-a.jpg

You want to haul the kids along, get the fj55:
http://www.arches.uga.edu/~redwards/1976-fj55-2.jpg

[brad9798]

Those pix are cool dmede ... I like all of them.

JEEPs can get out of the mud ... don't confuse JEEP with a Lexus SUV!

(YES- I pulled a Lexus LX450 out of the snow with my little old JEEP Wrangle a few years back).

Certainly no H2 size ... and no LR3 rip-off ... as the Commander has been designed prior to the LR3.

tongue.gif

[cs]

I guess that is where a Jeep has the advantage. The Samauri just has enough power for itself and not enough to share. ;)

Chad

[Matt J.]

Geared wrong (like putting larger tires on without addressing gearing) a Jeep can hardly get out of its own way, either, Chad. BTDT.

[dmede]

Brad, I'm just funnin, theres a long standing feud between Crusiers and Heepers :D

Jeep (the wrangler inparticular) has suffered a long period of poor quality and bad design. But I am very impressed with the new TJs. Except for thier lightness they are great trucks. Jeep may have a 4 door version coming out in 2007 that I'd be very intersted in driving.

For now my fj60 does everything I could want it to (except use less gas). It's my little bit of self indulgence with AC and power steering! I still miss my fj55 though.

As for pulling guys out, hey I got pulled of a snow bank by a wrangler just this past spring. Of course the only reason I got stuck in the first place was I made it further up than he could! :D

[Matt J.]

Originally posted by dmede:
...As for pulling guys out, hey I got pulled of a snow bank by a wrangler just this past spring. Of course the only reason I got stuck in the first place was I made it further up than he could! :D Isn't that what four wheel drive does best - get you further in before getting completely, utterly, stuck?

That's why our field crews have 2WD only... they'd be in deep doo-doo if we gave the option.

[dmede]

Originally posted by Matt J.:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dmede:
...As for pulling guys out, hey I got pulled of a snow bank by a wrangler just this past spring. Of course the only reason I got stuck in the first place was I made it further up than he could! :D Isn't that what four wheel drive does best - get you further in before getting completely, utterly, stuck?

That's why our field crews have 2WD only... they'd be in deep doo-doo if we gave the option.</font>[/QUOTE]LOL, hey I used to take my 2wd 1971 Toyota Corolla Wagon places you wouldn't belive. You can get stuck anywhere, 4x4 lets you get stuck really far from help :D

[paladin]

One of Murphies laws about 20 years ago wuz
"4 wheel drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places"....and "the better the 4 wheel drive, the farther out ya get stuck".....

[ishmael]

Not much for 'four wheelin' but I've got to agree with Chad. Those little Suzukis are remarkable trucks. Can't haul a lot, but if you want durable, bullet proof, simple, direct, nothing breaks and if it does you can fix it, go damn near anywhere without fancy add-ons, the circa '88 Samurai, stock, is first rate. Tricked a bit, well...

It's so small, it's almost like having one of those buzz-bomb four wheelers popular these days. Get into rock crawling and such and all bets are off, but if you want to just drive trails, know you'll get there...'88 1/2 Samurai. Wish I still had mine, somedays. Arigato.

It's the absolute, I mean the absolutely worst road vehicle ever certified for U.S. roads.

P.S. Back to this new Jeep. Swimming against the tide there Brad? Monster Trucks, UHH.

[ 10-24-2005, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[cs]

Okay I found an old photo of my Suzuki and scanned it in. Like Jack said these are great off road vehicles but terriable on the open road.

http://a5.cpimg.com/image/61/7F/53278305-40f9-028001A6-.jpg

Chad

[Victor]

What in the world could you do with that thing that you coudln't do better with something else, other than impressing your inner 14-year-old? Do me a BIG favor if you buy this thing - promise that no matter what happens you'll NEVER come cryin to the forum about the price of gas, OK? Deal? Deal! I can't believe people are still lusting after these things.

20 mpg at the latest filllup on my 95 Exploder, all riiiight! Not bad for an automatic.

[brad9798]

I buy what I like ... when I like. I guess I'm lucky, Victor!

I don't care about the price of gas for me personally ... my current tank is a month old.

I walk a lot of places ... live 3.5 miles from the office.

I've been waiting for this thing to come out since the rumors/spy shots started about three years ago!

Been there done that with regard to trying to impress folks with vehicles. That's not what it's about.

If that was all it was about ... I'd still have the Range Rover and Five-series ... let alone the 'Vette, Porsches, etc.

It has 4WD, it has THREE rows of seats ... it's a JEEP ... no more, no less.

tongue.gif

[Victor]

Googled on the Commander. Looks like a Cherokee. Same sheetmetal they've been using for 20 years. tongue.gif I take it back, though, I just assumed it was some oversized monstrosity like the Hummer.

[ 10-24-2005, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Victor ]

[brad9798]

That's what I like about it ... it does look like the classic Cherokee ...

smile.gif

[merlinron]

i heard those little zuks were pretty popular out west in the mountains. i dunno, i'll take my '91 yj (restored and tweeked) just about anywhere and come home on the freeway too, even with the 4-banger in it. some say the 4's don't have enough ooomph.... i never got into a situation that i didn't have enough to get out. i've been stuck good with it, but the six wouldn't have saved me.
i will say the landcruisers are good, i had one for a while and really liked it, but the body was falling off the chassis and the price of bodyparts would have bought me a good used jeep.
i didn't mean "go buy a hummer" by my statement, i just meant that the commander was getting up there in price and it might be a wannabe hummer type attracter. i'm thinking jeep might have been thinking that also, ya know," can't quit bite off a hummer, so i'll settle for a commander". they kind of hint at the hummer look all around, inside and out.
my '98 cherokee sport still runs and looks like it did the day i bought it and with 163,000 on it, it has never been to a garage for anything but tires,brakes, shocks, oil changes and tune ups. same alternator, same starter, one new battery,same exhaust yet, too.... can't beat that with a stick. 20 mi. to the gallon yet,to boot! i think the cherokee is just about the best all around suv you could have, they'll rough it with the toughest and haul the kids around all day, plus they'll pull a fair sized boat/camper/whatever.

[ 10-24-2005, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: merlinron ]

[cs]

Man pulling that old photo out makes me miss her. She cleaned up good.

While I had her I rebuilt the engine, new top, new front brakes, had the rear-end re-built and had the transmission re-built.

Even with all that work she was fun to drive during the summer with the top down. Winter sucked, heater wasn't that great. Highway driving sucked, almost got blown off the road a few times and had no top end.

but she was fun to drive. The first night I had her I drove her through parts of the yard that you could barely walk through.

Chad

[jack grebe]

got nothing against jeeps..currently own a yj,but if ya want true off road durabilty, it's gotta be the IH Scout 2..with true posi rears these things are incredable :D

[Garrett Lowell]

Allow me to correct all of you: nothing (and by nothing I mean nothing street-legal) is as good off-road as a UniMog. http://www.ankhenterprises.org/images/005%20Unimog%20b&w.jpg

[jack grebe]

not exactly a passenger vehicle though :rolleyes:

[Matt J.]

Call me stubborn, but I'd still rather have my Jeep.

[Garrett Lowell]

Originally posted by jack grebe:
not exactly a passenger vehicle though :rolleyes: About the same as a Suzuki Samurai.

[Garrett Lowell]

You have my sympathy, Matt. I still have my Jeep, but for how long?

[ 10-25-2005, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Garrett Lowell ]

[dmede]

you got that right Garrett, UNIMOGS are badd ass (so is the Pinz).

my personal favorite, a converted 406 from Turkey:
http://classicunimogs.com/gaggenau/sehsuvar1-b.jpg

I test drove a 404 a couple years ago, very fun truck to drive! If I had a ranch or lived closer to the Sierras I'd have one in a heartbeat.

[GregW]

A few years ago I was in East Africa, Tanzania to be exact, and figured that since I was there why not go on a safari? What I wanted was a DIY safari, not some organized package, all I really needed was a vehicle to get around in.
Since I was alone, and would be in areas with no possibility of easy communication (short of smoke signals), I needed a dependable rugged go anywhere type of vehicle.
So I looked around to see what the local business people where driving, since they would know what worked and what didn’t, and couldn’t afford such frivolities like spare parts, correct size tires etc. LOL.
I saw exactly two Jeeps, one Grand Cherokee, a lot of Toyota pickups, a surprising number of Pinzgauers, a lot of Toyota Land cruisers, but the champion by a wide margin, it wasn’t even close, was the Land Rover Defender 90. (Not to be confused with Range Rovers)
In a country with one paved highway, fuel full of dirt, a paucity of spare parts, poor communications, the Land Rover Defender 90 is KING! The punishment that thing took for the 5 days that I had it would kill a CJ in an afternoon - I know because I’ve killed a CJ in an afternoon!
The sad part is that the Defender isn’t available in North America, apparently we don’t like 2.5 turbo diesels.

http://www.avonhill.com/thumbnails/sport_utility/1985_Land_Rover_Defender.jpeg

[Garrett Lowell]

No, the Defender series does not meet the 1998 safety requirements for light trucks. Rover determined that the number of Defenders sold here in the states did not merit the capital required to update to the new standards, so no more Defenders.

[dmede]

Originally posted by Garrett Lowell:
No, the Defender series does not meet the 1998 safety requirements for light trucks. Rover determined that the number of Defenders sold here in the states did not merit the capital required to update to the new standards, so no more Defenders.Ford may be bringing the Defender back to the US in 2007 or 2008 I believe. But I'm concerned it will be a vastly inferior version.

[ljb5]

I've been trying to hold back because obviously you all have quite a lot of fondness for Jeeps -- but they are, without a doubt, the worst POSs I've ever seen.

When my family gets together, we still tell horror stories about the Grand Cherokee we had twenty years ago. I remember it like it was yesterday. There wasn't a rut that thing could get out of. Pieces of it would fall off just driving around the neighborhood. The transmission fell apart on a mountain pass in Wyoming, the battery fell into the fan while we were cutting a Christmas tree n Colorado....

Best car I ever had is the Honda Civic hatchback, 2 wd, 4 cylinder with 92 horses.

I had that for four years in Colordao, used it for search and rescue -- took it skiing, climbing, anywhere I wanted, any time of year.

A couple of years ago, the wife and I drove it out to Colorado for a two-week climbing trip extending over most of southern Colorado. We had it in snowstorms and rain and windstorms, up and over mountain passes (with $1000 hidden under the floor mats because of a malfunctioning ATM in Aspen.)

Took it off-road nearly everywhere. There was one road outside of Canon City which we decided not to take, but I wouldn't have taken a 4x4 on that either.

That car can take you pretty much anywhere you want to go -- and if it won't take you there, well, isn't that the whole point of going up into the mountains -- to walk around a little bit?

[brad9798]

Wasn't a 'Grand Cherokee' 20 years ago ... it was a 'Grand WAGONEER.'

And, they WERE the worst pieces of sh*t ever. I agree.

That was the AMF days, brother.

From 1987 on, they've been part of Chrysler/Daimler-Chrysler.

Comparing a vehicle from 20 years ago is like looking at a picture of a hot chick 20 years ago ... and wondering why she looks like sh*t now.

In other words, it makes no sense.

And I can't believe there is an outfit out of Texas that buys up old Grand Wagoneers ... rebuilds them and sells them today for more than for what they sold new!

What a racquet.

Get your info. straight, ljb5 ... ;)

:cool: smile.gif

[Donn]

I put 180K miles on a Wagoneer in three years in the late 70's. My territory, out of Cleveland, included all of the Great Lakes States. I hauled half a load of books and book jackets, and half a load of fishing tackle (had licenses in 7 states).

Fortunately, my company paid for gas (Quadratrac and a huge V8 ate tons of gas).

It's tailgate finally rotted out, and I had to give it up, but I've never had a car I liked better.

[ljb5]

Originally posted by brad9798:
Wasn't a 'Grand Cherokee' 20 years ago ... it was a 'Grand WAGONEER.'I'm pretty sure it was a Cherokee, (not a Grand). Introduced in 1977, if memory serves. We had the 1984.

I'll never forget the look on my Dad's face when he opened up the hood and discovered the battery had broken free from its mounting and been chopped to bits by the fan.

We were high up in the Rocky Mountains, chopping a Christmas tree with a visiting teacher from Japan. Boy, did she have a look on her face too!

[brad9798]

AGREED, ljb5 ... but they WERE crap back then.

[Katherine]

Say Hello to the Motor Trend 2006 SUV of the year.
:D
http://motortrend.com/oftheyear/suv/112_06_suvoty_nissan_xterra_rear_s.jpg

[Garrett Lowell]

Anything with 4 doors isn't a Jeep, regardless of what it says on the side. Here are just a few examples of real Jeeps. The early CJs were so good off road because of their light weight, which is also what makes the Sidekick so able.

In order: a CJ2a, CJ3b, CJ5, CJ6, CJ7, and CJ8.

http://www.thecj2apage.com/hj46e.jpg

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Photos/Owners/Marski/Marski.jpg

http://www.b1d.dk/jeep/pics/models/jeep-cj5.jpg

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Jeeps/1965JeepCJ6-a.jpg

http://www.geekthing.com/~robf/jeep/images/cj7-3.jpg

http://stumpthumpers.4x4play.com/images/JAX+shows+his+pride+in+the+CJ8.jpg

[brad9798]

That's closed-minded, Garrett ... JEEP is a state of mind ... and, unlike other 'SUV's' ... well, JEEPS are always designed from off-roading up.

Ulike Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Nissan, Toyota, et al.

smile.gif

Back to the topic- Can't WAIT to get a new Commander!!!

[Garrett Lowell]

True Brad, and I can say I've seen some heavily modified Cherokees and Grands that were capable. And then there was the Liberty. There's also another "SUV" coming out with the Jeep name on it which most definitely WON'T be Trail Rated. Kind of like when Porsche came out with the Cayenne. Pointless.

[ljb5]

Originally posted by brad9798:
Back to the topic- Can't WAIT to get a new Commander!!!When that happens, I think we should have a little competition.

Your Commander vs. my Civic

I'm pretty sure I can take it anywhere you can take yours. And if I can't, I'm sure there's a pretty good reason why I didn't want to go there in the first place!

Years ago, I was hiking around Mt. of the Holy Cross and there was a group of 4x4s on the logging road to the peak. Darn if they weren't doing no better than 2 miles an hour, slipping all over the place and making a bucket of noise. It took them all day to get to the part where the real fun part starts (the climbing) but those idiots just pull out a Mountain Dew and start heading down. Never even got out of the jeeps, except when one of them got high-centered and started revolving like a lonely kid on a merry-go-round with no friends to give him a push.

Makes me sad just to think about it.

[brad9798]

So misguided you are, ljb5.

Yet- you always leave yourself some sort of bull**** out- 'wouldn't want to go there anyway.'

ANYONE who thinks, let alone believes, that a civic can go where a JEEP can go is STUPID.

Sorry ... I tried to come up with other ways to explain it ... but to no avail.

Okay, okay, perhaps not stupid ... but horribly naive.

What the f*ck ever, dude! tongue.gif :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ljb5]

Brad, what happened to the sense of humor?

Of course I know that a Civic can't go everywhere a Jeep can go.

But I also know it can go everywhere I want to go -- and that's good enough for me. And I'd wager I go to more inaccessible places than you....

That includes two years search and rescue in Colorado, a dozen climbing trips, dozens more ski trips, and more trips cross-country than I care to recount. I know my car can make it up Pike's Peak and Mount Washington, but when I go (as I have nearly a dozen times) I hike. I can get four dozen 2x4s or 80 Dricore panels in the back.

I'd be willing to bet that wherever you go, you don't need a Jeep to get you there.

There are many place that both a Civic and a Jeep can go. There are many places that neither can go. The relatively few that only a Jeep can handle aren't worth the extra expense and the horrible quality.

What's the point of going off-road in a car? I thought the whole point of going off-road is to get out and enjoy it.

[ 10-26-2005, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

[ljb5]

I don't mean to harsh your buzz, Brad. If you like the Jeep, go ahead and get the Jeep.

I just think it's a little silly when I go to Home Depot where some guy is loading a potted plant in the back of his massive 4x4 truck while I've got 800 pounds of crushed stone in the back of my Honda.

Like everything else, you can do it for whatever reason you want -- just don't deceive yourself about what your needs really are.

[cs]

Love that Scrambler. Had a chance to buy one once, but didn't do it.

http://stumpthumpers.4x4play.com/images/JAX+shows+his+pride+in+the+CJ8.jpg

Ljb5 reminds me of once when I was driving my buddies Scrambler and the 4WD was busted. This guy in 2WD truck challenged me to a hill climbing contest, I say contest but it was no contest. He didn't get 20' up the hill while I proudly sat on the crest.

Chad

[Garrett Lowell]

I've always wanted a CJ-8, as well. They're pretty pricey nowadays, though.

ljb5, bring your kayak and your Civic and let's go. If your Civic can make it to the drop point I like to hit, I'll sell my Wrangler and get a Civic as well. What year is your Civic?

[Matt J.]

lbj, i've been places - out of necessity - in a simple Jeep that no civic could ever go. I'm a land surveyor, and there've been times the civic couldn't even get onto the site, let alone carry the equipment I needed and get me where I was going.

It's naive to suggest that just because the 4x4 gets used for light duty things like carrying a plant, that it doesn't get used for more tasking jobs. OTOH, putting 800 lbs into a civic isn't very bright, just to prove you're still man enough, when you know you're risking the vehicle doing so. I've done it in some small trucks (1500lbs) and barely made it home. THe right tool for the job and all.

There's a CJ-5 with my name on it for the asking, if only SWMBO would agree. Cool old beasts.

[ljb5]

putting 800 lbs into a civic isn't very bright, just to prove you're still man enough, when you know you're risking the vehicle doing so. I've done it in some small trucks (1500lbs) and barely made it home. If you can't put 800 lbs into a truck which claims it can take 1500 lbs, then it's not really a 1500 lbs truck, is it? It's just a marketing claim that isn't true and you fell for.

I'll grant you, if you're doing real work like land surveying, a 4x4 makes a lot of sense. But we both know a lot of people who own trucks don't do that.

Garrett -- I haven't been kayaking in a few years, but last time I went, it was in my brother's civic. He's a nut for kayaking and he drives that thing all over Washington and British Columbia. I have a good friend here who is an instructor and guide. He has a '92 Civic which he regularly takes all over the country.
Come to think of it, his housemate is also an instructor who drives a Civic. One of my coworkers pulls his 14 foot wooden boat behind his.

[cs]

I think what he is saying is that he put 1500 lbs in a 1/2 ton truck. That is 500 lbs over the design load.

I've put over 2000 lbs in my Chevy 1500 and boy that was a load.

Just to defend the need for 4wd. If you ever go to a job site and get slightly off of the gravel and it is wet, you may need the 4wd to get out. Been there and done that.

Chad

[ljb5]

Originally posted by MIke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Garrett -- I haven't been kayaking in a few years,Wait a minute here. What happened to that trip you took last year when you busted the ice in Feb? and came back to tell us about your trip on a single boat related post??? :D :D :D :D Funny</font>[/QUOTE]Well, maybe it hasn't been that long. 20 months, not a couple of years. So sue me.

As I explained at the time, that was a practice session in my buddy's indoor pool. Same buddy who works as an instructor and drives a Civic.

Chad, I've had the same experience many times where I was able to get somewhere in my car that another person wasn't; mostly because my Civic is reliable and his POS SUV was in the shop again.

Anyone have access to the Consumer Reports site to get the reliability ratings?

[ 10-26-2005, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

[Matt J.]

It was 1500lbs in a 2WD Toyota truck (with no name, but the great little motor... R22E?). It was just about sitting on the axle IIRC. One of the tires was shot after that. Did it again with two manhole frames and covers in the same poor little truck.

It's a matter of the right tool for the job. You CAN do a lot with a civic that you can do with a Jeep, or even a Commander. It's the remaining 2-20% of capabilities that the Jeeps have that make the Civic the wrong tool to have in my, and many others', garage (toolbox).

[Matt J.]

As for later model Jeeps and reliability... I can tell you after a quarter million miles in Jeeps, they have no reliability problems. Change the oil, monitor wearables (tires, filteres, lube) just like any other modern car, and they'll go like a Civic.

[ljb5]

Originally posted by Matt J.:
It's a matter of the right tool for the job. You CAN do a lot with a civic that you can do with a Jeep, or even a Commander. It's the remaining 2-20% of capabilities that the Jeeps have that make the Civic the wrong tool to have in my, and many others', garage (toolbox).I won't argue with that. But I've seen a lot of nice furniture made by craftsmen with humble equipment. And there are a lot of butchers out there who can't make a nice piece no matter how fancy the tools in their toolbox.

Another thing to consider is that there are situations where you don't want 4 wheel drive. It might be good for pulling you out of the mud, but it's not so great for highway speeds. I don't like driving behing a 4x4 on Berthoud Pass because I've seen them fishtail too many times, especially on the downhill.

I'd bet most people spend more time driving at highway speeds than they do sloshing through the mud. It just makes sense to me to buy the car that's best for what you're actually going to use it for -- not for what the ads show it being used for.

Besides, if a Civic fails you in the mud, you're just stuck. If your 4x4 fishtails off a mountain pass, you're dead.

It's a matter of having the right tool for the job -- and in many cases, perhaps most, 4x4 is not the right tool.

[ 10-26-2005, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

[Mrleft8]

I prefer my '53 M38A1 :D

[Memphis Mike]

The women around here use their Expeditions to drive over curbs when they find themselves blocked in at the shopping mall.

That's four wheelin...Memphis style. :D

[Matt J.]

Originally posted by Mrleft8:
I prefer my '53 M38A1 :D Me, too, Doug. Me, too. :D

[dmede]

Originally posted by brad9798:
That's closed-minded, Garrett ... JEEP is a state of mind ... and, unlike other 'SUV's' ... well, JEEPS are always designed from off-roading up.

Ulike Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Nissan, >>Toyota<<, et al.
Are you nuts? The Toyota Land Crusier is one of the most repsected off road vehicles in history. Jeeps, old and new, can't hold a candle to the fj40. In order for any Jeep Wrangler to even keep up with a stock LC it had to be heavily modified (the Rubicon is the only exception, and long over due).

Jeeps are fun vehicles, and can take on some hard terrain but I would never rely on one in anything but a recreational environment. There's a reason why LCs and Rovers are used world wide in some of the most challenging terrain you can imagine, day in and day out. Reliability, toughness, a design you can work on trail side and get going again. Jeeps just don't rank with them.

I'll take a 30 year old Cruiser over a new Heep anyday.

[ 10-26-2005, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[GregW]

Dmede has hit the nail on the head. Jeeps are cute, "family" vehicles, fine for casual off-road stuff, like gravel driveways for example. smile.gif

[brad9798]

dmede- you are CORRECT. I wasn't speaking of real Toyotas ...

I was thinking, of the Forerunners, etc.

[dmede]

Originally posted by brad9798:
dmede- you are CORRECT. I wasn't speaking of real Toyotas ...

I was thinking, of the Forerunners, etc.snifff... thats ok, feathers unruffled ;)

I am very disappointed in Toyota's current offerings. I think the last model Tacoma was great but it was auto only in the 4x4 versions. The new one looks too much like a Dakota. Last model 4 Runners are Ok but not stout enough, new ones are ugly and too big. The newer LCs are still tough as nails but way too expensive and also have auto only. Thats why I own a 1987 fj60, last year for manual trannny in a US LC. Thier coming out with the "FJ Crusier" soon, what a POS that will be. It's all style as far as I can see, not the real heir to the LC throne. No, what I need is the new 78 series LC's from over seas:

http://www.brian894x4.com/hzj78.jpg
http://www.brian894x4.com/LC78brochurepic1.jpg

I wonder if OEX knows how to import one... hmmmm

[Matt J.]

Originally posted by GregW:
Dmede has hit the nail on the head. Jeeps are cute, "family" vehicles, fine for casual off-road stuff, like gravel driveways for example. smile.gif Horsepoop! The Jeep Grand Cherokee and Liberty, sure, but I assure you, from experience, the Wrangler, particularly the Rubicon, is no cute "family vehicle." They're plenty tough.

[dmede]

Originally posted by Matt J.:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GregW:
Dmede has hit the nail on the head. Jeeps are cute, "family" vehicles, fine for casual off-road stuff, like gravel driveways for example. smile.gif Horsepoop! The Jeep Grand Cherokee and Liberty, sure, but I assure you, from experience, the Wrangler, particularly the Rubicon, is no cute "family vehicle." They're plenty tough.</font>[/QUOTE]Rubicon, maybe, Wrangler? I dunno.

No truck that uses plastic for it's vlave cover is tough, IMOP. Not sure of what years but it speaks volumes to the design of the vehicle in general.

I remember sitting on the curb infront of a fast food joint back in Hawaii with my buddy. We were sitting on the ground facing our trucks as they sat side by side (his CJ7 my fj40). As I was shovelling mexican pizza into my mouth I began to notice the stark contrast in robustness of both vehicles drive train, suspension, frame etc. The FJ40 was just plain over built (thats a good thing off road), the CJ7 looked anemic by comparison.

Why do you think most guys who wheel Wranglers change out all those parts? And thats the key really, sure a wrangler can be a great trail vehicle... but not stock. LCs get upgrades too but they don't need them to go around the world. Ever read "who needs a road"? I wouldn't take that trip in any Jeep, Wrangler, Rubicon, whatever.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, most Jeepers are diehard fans just like the LC guys. It's just what I have noticed.

http://ruk.ca/images/whoneedsaroadcover.jpg

[ 10-26-2005, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[GregW]

You want tough?
The Defender I had in Africa had 4 different size (wrong size at that) tires, on 4 different rims. Fuel was dispensed by some guy on the side of the road with a buck of diesel and funnel. What passes for roads had rocks the size of footballs in them, a pothole is something you drive into and a few minutes later drive out the other side. The soil is almost talc like in tecture, so when it rains the mud is like quicksand.
People don’t have tons of money to be buying a new vehicle every 5 years, they expect a vehicle to last at least 10 years, that’s tens years of what we would call offroad driving every day all the time! Find me and off the shelf Jeep that can do that.
The market decided what the best vehicles are, and they are #1 LR Defender, #2 Toyota LC.
The only dust a Jeep sees in Africa, is the dust it collects on the dealers lots, who practically can't give the things away. People can afford them, but they can't afford the endless need for spare parts. Sad but true.

[ 10-26-2005, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: GregW ]

[brad9798]

Well, mine will never be offroad ... all tires have always matched ... they get me through the snow ... I like the way they look, and it will always be under warranty.

I'll stick with my JEEPS!

;)

[dmede]

No doubt about the Defenders capabilities, and to a greater extent the Series rovers (predecessor to the Defender). People often point to its dominence in the african market as proof of its superiority and great reliability. I wonder though how much of Rovers presence there is not purely market driven but also driven by Africas long connection with the UK in general? There may be tax and terrif incentivces that help a bit.

I'm very fond of the older series rovers. They are a bit... british in design which makes them hard to work on sometimes, especially for yanks. Strange strapy contraptions for suspension links and horribly stiff leaf springs in the older ones. I like the fact that they used smaller engines. Most moder trucks are terribly over powered IMOP, especially for the use they end up seeing in suburbia.

[Garrett Lowell]

I'd put a stock CJ2-A-through-CJ-3B up against an FJ-40 any day on any terrain.

[jack grebe]

sooooo, what about the scouts :rolleyes:

[dmede]

Originally posted by Garrett Lowell:
I'd put a stock CJ2-A-through-CJ-3B up against an FJ-40 any day on any terrain.ahh, the flat fenders. yeah those are cool trucks, not a bad match for an fj40. I tend not count them into my rants about Heeps ;)

their going to do best against a fj40 on sand especially with stock tires, FJ40 being much heavier. But I doubt it would come to much more than who was behind the wheel otherwise. No way are you going to leave a 40 behind in one of those :D

[Garrett Lowell]

"No way are you going to leave a 40 behind in one of those "

:D

No, not on a paved surface, of course. The 45 hp and the way-low gearing will see to that, of course. I guess I should have said "any offroad terrain".

[Garrett Lowell]

"Are you nuts? The Toyota Land Crusier is one of the most repsected off road vehicles in history. Jeeps, old and new, can't hold a candle to the fj40. In order for any Jeep Wrangler to even keep up with a stock LC it had to be heavily modified (the Rubicon is the only exception, and long over due)."

So, let's try a modern LC against a new Wrangler. Oh, that's right. There isn't a modern LC. I know a modern Wrangler couldn't stand up to a CJ2-3 or maybe even a 5 due to the difference in weight. I'd bet a modern LC (if one was available) would be in the same predicament against it's predecessor.

[dmede]

Not sure what you mean Garrett, the LC is still in production, in several forms (the LC 100 in the US, Canada and AU and the 78/79 series in various other parts of the world). If you mean a short wheel base fj40 type of thing then yeah, its saddly gone (except for Bandeirante (http://www.brian894x4.com/LCBandeirante.html) made in Brazil of all places).

And of course you make my point exactly, a 30 plus year old LC is still a better off road vehicle than any modern Wrangler, as far as I am concerned. And except for issues ralated to high centering on the long wheel base the 100 series is a very capable truck (if a bit plush for that purpose).

The 78/79 series trucks (of which there is a short wheel base version) would probably surpass the older fj40s.

But this is all conjecture, Ive not done any side by side comparisons, and only know the 78/79 series by reputation (ask any aussie). I know guys who do in fact wheel the newer US trucks and go to some incredible places, with Jeeps rigth along side.

[ 10-27-2005, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[Garrett Lowell]

Sorry dmede, I meant an FJ40. If there was a modern FJ, I'm just wondering how the performance would be hindered by modern price and market competition and safety requirements as compared to it's predecessor and a Wrangler.

[dmede]

Well if Rover can make the Defender and Jeep can make the Wrangler I'm sure Toyota could build a modern fj40 if they felt it would sell. I guess they feel there's no market for it, or that the market really wants the "FJ Cruiser" and not the real thing. It's hard to admit but Jeep is doing it right at the moment by holding on to the utilitarian roots of the Wrangler and passing them onto some of thier concept vehicles.

I'd really like to see some of the other Jeep concepts come to market. Might make a (gulp) Jeep man out of me - eww, it gives me the chicken skin just typing that :D

[brad9798]

MAN! IF Toyota built a modern/retro style fj40 and stayed true to its heritage ... it would be a sizable hit!

Good thinking dmede ... I'd LOVE to see that!!!!

Brad

:cool:

[Blackbeard]

honestly I can't say anythingbad on this thread I love jeeps

[Garrett Lowell]

From what I understand, this will be the FJ Cruiser.

http://motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0505_toyotafj01_l.jpg

http://common.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2757644664354965.JPG?0.9302417947455

http://common.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2116781701389880.JPG?0.7234442131874321

http://common.weblogsinc.com/common/images/6943840162772584.JPG?0.9250505557999767

[ljb5]

Originally posted by Blackbeard:
honestly I can't say anythingbad on this thread I love jeepsBlackbeard, I do believe we've won you over!

Welcome to the bilge.

[Katherine]

He may have already been Scotted.

[dmede]

yeah thats it... blech!

here's what a new fj cruiser should be:

http://www.sor.com/shared/image/VID_PX10-big.jpg

[ 10-28-2005, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

[Seth Wood]

The problem with buying a new truck for off-road use is it's usually too nice to risk banging up. And MANY but not all new trucks are designed, built, and marketed to appeal to the idea of off-roading without the oomph to support it.

Give me a coil-sprung series Rover, 88 for off-road, 109 for looks. Tdi wouldn't hurt.

I was on a Land Rover trip out west, in a convoy of twenty or thirty Land Rovers in various states of mud and dents, and we stopped at dusk to fill up at a gas station across the mountains from Jackson Hole. Young kid comes up, goggles at the row of trucks, and says, "Hey, nice Jeeps." What are you gonna do.

Frankly, it's not the car, it's the driver. We had one maroon in a fancy Defender who couldn't drive, or get un-stuck, to save his life. But he had all the right special "off-roading" outfits and gear!

And another guy, a quiet, one-legged white-bearded guy, who calmly finessed his truck in, through, over, and around every obstacle. Amazing.

I've found that it's the quietly competent ones who don't feel the need to crow about their abilities.

[Garrett Lowell]

I fully agree, dmede. It's awful.