block plane recommendations

[Old Salt]

I am building a clinker over stringer boat. I need to plane both the stringers and each plank to the correct angle. I must admit that I am rather ignorant when it comes to choosing a hand plane. Can someone help me with some recommedations? I would like to buy online...Jamestown offers a few as well as the woodenboat store.

Thank you.

[gary porter]

If you don't mind the price, one of the best block planes going for boatbuilding is the Lie Nielson low angle scew block plane. The plane is a wonderful tool with a removeable side and a fence which can be attached for rabbet use. Its heavy for a block plane as its bronze. $185 but worth it in my opinion.
Almost any of the tool companies have them. Highland Hardwar, Woodcraft etc. Of course if you don't want to spend that kind of money you can get a Stanley low angle but you'll have to spend a couple of hours wiht some water stones etc. before you have a working tool. If your doing work on end grain which it sounds like you are then the low angle planes are much better.
Gary

[imported_Steven Bauer]

I really like the newly designed Lee Valley /Veritas planes. They are a little more expensive than a Stanley but much less expensive than a Lie-Neilsen. They have the same type of blades but a new method of adjusting the blade that is very accurate and easy to use.
Their standard block plane is $99:
http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p2230s1c.jpg

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p2201.gif

But the slightly smaller apron plane (I use mine daily) is a great buy at $65 ($74 with the A2 steel blade):

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p2701s1.jpg

Steven

[Vincent Serio III]

If you have that kind of money to spend, the above recommendations are outstanding. I've had reasonably good results with an old Stanley bought at a yard sale, and a Sears model bought new for a low price. Block planes are fairly easy to find in used tool stores. Usually with a little sharpening (see the threads about tool sharpening in the FAQ's-you are going to need to learn how to sharpen even the deluxe models) they will work fine. You can always buy a replacement blade if the used blade looks bad. My bet is that with proper tuning and sharpening, that the used tool will perform pretty well.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Stanley 60&frac12. good handy tool. What do you plan to use for the geralds (gains) a 78?

[Doug Wood]

I'll second Steven's recommendation of the Veritas planes. I have the low angle block plane and it's a real joy to use.

[George Jung]

I recently came across a review of block planes (?Modern Woodworker?) which agrees with the previous posts. Lie NIelson was considered the best plane, but the Veritas was a very close second; interestingly, the blade adjustment on the Veritas was felt to be considerably better than anything else out there, including the Lie Nielsen. The LN is such a nice looking tool, I think that may be the basis for the 'nod in that article. I've not used a Veritas, but everything I've heard/read suggests it's the Best Buy, and probably the best plane.
FWIW, I notice LN now offers their low angle block plane in a cast iron model; maybe ten dollars less (? to compete to Veritas?). Personally, if I was going LN, I'd get the bronze.

[gary porter]

The Lie Nielsen that I would get is the Scew Block Plane. This one is much different than the rest even the other L.N. ones. The blade sets at somehting like 18 degrees scew. Plus the detachable side which I hardly ever use but it is nice. I have other L.N. planes and a hand full of Stanley's and others and do use them all but if I were only to have one it would be this scew plane, especially for boat work. It was an old boat builder who originally told me about it and I thought what the heck I'll try it,,,,he was dead on. For small work the L.N. 102 regular low angle block plane is a lot of fun to use. You can stick this one in your pocket, well almost.
Gary.. ;)

[Bob Smalser]

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/48396786.jpg

Stanley 60 1/2 scrounged from Uncle Paul's parts bin around 1960 with his blessing. Had lost it's adjustable sole mechanism.

You can still see the soft solder we used to bring the too-thin steel scrap replacement part flush with the rest of the sole so I could have my first plane. Works just dandy.

I was 12 or so, and it remains the only block I've ever had or wanted. Frankly, the Stanley #18 that lived in Paul's overall pocket didn't look much better.

Paul woulda had quite a chuckle over 150-dollar "gent's" block planes.

[ 01-26-2005, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[NormMessinger]

A Craftsman with a Hock blade will do nicely, thank you very much.

Craftsman is to Lie Nelson as Bic is to Mont Blanc It depends to a large extent who you tryin' to impress.

[gary porter]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
A Craftsman with a Hock blade will do nicely, thank you very much.

Craftsman is to Lie Nelson as Bic is to Mont Blanc It depends to a large extent who you tryin' to impress.Well, no it will not. I wish I could afford to send you one Norm and then see what clever thing you had to say. Its true , most planes can be made to work much better and the new ones like the new Stanleys are really not much more than rough casting kits. They are great once you spend the time to make them right. The Lie Nielsen planes and especially the scew block plane may be pretty but they go way beyond that in performance. To compare one to a Mont Blanc, well that statement dosen't impress me. Then again, I'd have to admit , I've never owned or used an old Craftsman either.
Gary

[Paul Stohlman]

One down side to the Lie Nielsen 140 skew angle block plane is that setting the blade is a little more fussy, sharpening the blade is a little more fussy, and the blade set changes (slightly) when you tighten the hold down. All of these are covered in the instructions.

That being said, L-N has other block planes, and even their least expensive one is a great tool (low angle all bronze a bit smaller than most)

I like the older Stanley, Record, Sargent, better than most of the stuff made today.

[Bob Perkins]

Just to add to the Lie Nielsen vs. Stanley discussion - The ONLY complaint I have ever heard about them is their price. I completely understand that they are expensive - but they are exceptionally nice to use.

I have a LN block and a stanley block - and have both of them tuned pretty good. The problem with they Stanley (Could be my poor technique..) was while doing a lot of planing - I would manage to move/turn the adjustment screw with the palm of my hand all the time - I tried to avoid it, but it turned into a real pain to use.

The LN design is much better in how the blade adjusts and the lever cap design - much less fumbling around.

Is it worth the price difference - personal choice.. Cost of a hock blade plus an hour or two of time tuning a Stanley.. hmmmm.

also - LN just started making Stanley replacement blades. I haven't checked the prices..

Take Care,
Bob

[Ken Hutchins]

Having spent in excess of 40 years metal working as a toolmaker, tooling engineer, etc. I availed myself of a chance to tour Lee Neilson's factory about a year go and I must say that their manufacturing methods and equipment indicate that all their products should be considered top shelf. ;) Just my 2 cents worth.

[Harry Miller]

What do you plan to use for the geralds (gains) a 78? I'm using this one from Veritas (Lee Valley) for the gains and the apron plane for the bevels.
http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p4201s2.jpg

[George Roberts]

Old Salt ---

I suspect that you can use a cheap plane from any of the big box stores if you sharpen the iron a bit.

I have a $30 6" wood bodied plane that I use. (I don't get into worrying about low angle or high angle, smoother or block.)

[ 01-26-2005, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: George Roberts ]

[boatbuilder.org]

Stanley low angle. It's the best bang for your buck, you won't be disappointed.
---Joel---

[ssor]

I have some exceptionally fine old planes from stanley and millers falls and a fairly new rabate plane from Record and a rather long craftsman plane that I spent many hours scraping to get the bottom flat. Careful sharpening and adjusting will make any plane perform as it should, but the more carefully made(read costly)planes will be more easily adjusted and the better grades of steel in the blades will hold an edge longer. As with all tools buy the best that you can afford and you will never regret the cost. A sorry tool will be always disappointing. On the other hand that a look at the tools in sight on the posting for Vietnam wooden boats. You must master your tools to produce masterful work.

[John Hastie]

I believe the real differance in planes comes down to how much you can afford to spend.

So why are the LN & Veritas planes more expensive? I think it comes down to how much tuning time you want to spend. The more expensive planes require far shorter time to get them up and running.

I can't believe how much time it took to true the sole on my Stanley Jointer plane.

Quality costs more.

My 2 cents...

[ 01-27-2005, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: John Hastie ]

[NormMessinger]

Gary said, " I wish I could afford to send you one Norm and then see what clever thing you had to say."

I wish you could too. tongue.gif

[Garrett Lowell]

I absolutely love my E.C. Emmerich block plane, which I bought from Traditional Woodworker. (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_4_331&products_id=172) The price includes shipping. It was good and sharp right out of the box. I will definitely be buying their rabbet plane and try plane, when the time comes.

[mower]

Old Salt:

This thread seems to have become a comarison of block planes and an important part of your question is being overlooked. In the construction of a clinker built on stringers, don't forget the usefulness of a bench plane. If you use a bench plane with a sole long enough for blade to make contact with the stinger, or plank you are planing, and the heel resting on the adjacent stinger, you will get a perfect bevel. This will take a pretty big bench plane and it will seem awkward at first, but you will be surprised at the results.

I know you are probably using plywood and conventional wisdom says that a low angle plane is better, but just keep you bench plane sharp and the result will be just fine. You may even find the extra "heft" of a sharp smoothing plane useful for shaping plywood planks.

My two bits - I have to reluctantly confess to owning an expensive Veritas low angle block plane in addition to a couple old Stanleys. It is probably one of the few tools I own which is less than 50 years old. I also have to reluctantly confess that I love using the Veritas. It is so accurate to adjust, and stays sharp so long. I feel like a traitor to all my old tools when I use it, but alas, it is a joy to handle.

[imported_Steven Bauer]

I notice LN now offers their low angle block plane in a cast iron model; I think this is so they could offer the adjustable mouth that the bronze one doesn't have.
I have the small bronze low angle L-N and it is a very nice tool. But I like the Lee Valley/Veritas apron plane even more and it was about half the price. They both have cryogenically treated a2 tool steel blades but the mechanism on the Lee Valley is awesome. Someone lend one of these to Bob or Norm for a few weeks and see what they think.

Do any of you have experience with the Rali type planes?
Regular:
http://www.fine-tools.com/R302400.jpg
Block:
http://www.fine-tools.com/R302404.jpg
Rabbet:
http://www.fine-tools.com/R302413.jpg

These use replaceable blades of HSS or carbide.

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302406.jpg

Steven

[Keith Wilson]

If you're building the boat on a mold with stringers for each plank lap, adding an extension on the side of the plane to rest on the next stringer makes planing the plank lap bevels so easy it's embarrasing. I modified a Stanley 60-1/2 by tapping a 1/4-20 hole in each side 0.5" up from the sole, and use a piece of 1" diameter steel rod with a setscrew in the end for the extension - just screw it in and Bob's yer uncle. The surface of the rod is tangent to the plane sole, and the extra weight actually helps as long as you're not doing a lot of planing at once. There are of course other ways to do this.

About plane selection - The Lie-Nielsens are lovely but incredibly expensive. The Lee Valley planes seem very good for the money if you want to spend that much. I have a Stanley, which is entirely good enough as long as I keep it adjusted and sharp (which you have to do with any plane). I am, however, not a perfectionist by any means. Hock blades are great (again, if you want to spend the money), but you can do good work with a well-sharpened standard blade too. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.

[ 01-27-2005, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Old Salt]

This thread was most helpful! Thank you very much. If anything else comes in, I will certainly read it as well.

I ordered from Lee Valley, a Veratis Apron plane with the A2 blade...for now. The larger $99 plane was out of stock. Sounds like I will need a larger one in my arsonal.

I also ordered the 2 mini ebony and brass plane set. They are cheap and even if they prove to be not that usefull...they are beautiful.

I also ordered the CD for sharpening woodworking tools.

The last post indicated that I will need a large bench plane for shaving the angles on my plywood and hardwood edges of stringers and planks. Any recommedations for that would be appreciated.

Thank you!

[Garrett Lowell]

Well, you can't go wrong ordering from Lee Valley. I've never experienced anything but outstanding service and quality in my dealings with them.

[Bruce Hooke]

For larger planes I've been quite happy with my Stanley-Bailey/Record type planes. I've got an 04 "Smooth" made by Stanley and an 07 Jointer made by Record and I can't imagine doing much hand woodworking without them. I did replace the Stanley iron (blade) with a thicker Hock iron and a "stay-set" cap iron, but I am a bit of perfectionist. The Record planes are no longer available new, which is a shame. Woodcraft is listing Groz planes as their replacement. These size planes can be picked up readily on the used market too, and if you shop around a bit you can get good planes this way, but they may require more tune-up time than a good new plane. I use the 04 more than the 07 but the 07 is very useful when I need a long straight edge or when I need to span from one edge to another.

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Salty, the Apron plane you ordered doesn't have an adjustable throat like the one that was out of stock. This is not a problem, in fact the bronze Lie-Neilsen doesn't have one either. However, on the one I got two years ago the throat clearance was just a little too tight for me - you could only take very thin shavings without clogging. What I did was to take a 6" mill bastard file and just take a few licks off the front edge of the mouth opening and now I'm totally happy with it. For touching up the edge at the jobsite I use one of these:

http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/dmt/images/dmtd3e.jpg
E-Z Lap Dia-Sharp sharpening stones will save you time and money by quickly putting a razor edge on knives & tools.
This lightweight, credit card sized sharpener easily fits in a wallet or pocket for quick sharpening wherever you go!
DMTD3E Extra Fine Grit
3-1/4" x 2" x .05" - Plastic display pouch. Color-coded handle. $9.95

I have no trouble planing maple endgrain with this plane sharpened with this little credit card sized diamond hone.

I'm thinking of getting the Groz #5 from Rockler, for $39, I'll report back if I do.

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/25792-md.jpg

that's about $180 cheaper than the Lee Valley #6

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/planes/05p2801s1.jpg

Steven

[Tom Robb]

Saving old 'arn from the collectors is always a good thing, but man do I love my Lee Valley apron plane. :cool:
And as far as I know it has no Chinese parts - made by our good buddies in the Great White North. Another good thing, IMHO.
LN is pretty stuff if price is no object, and made in Maine is a good thing too.
Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice - as everyone has said.

[Bayboat]

After 65 years of using planes I've settled on Lie-Nielsen. They are surely worth the price. You can pay much more for an English or Scottish wood infill plane, but the slight improvement is not worth the price. I've also had good use with the small Veritas planes. Nobody so far has mentioned Clifton (planes and spoke shaves), which are also very good. Wooden planes are best for some uses, like smoothing a hull; E.C.Emmerich can't be beat. Be sure and get the ones with Lignum Vitae soles. I agree that the E.C.E. block plane with the metal blade adjuster is a gem.