Thickness planer

[UncleRalph]

How do you build a traditional boat without owning a thickness planer?

I have build two stitch and glue boats and a strip plank boat - none of them had much dimensional lumber in the design. I have plans for a "traditionally" built plywood boat - plywood over a lumber framework. It is a 20' flat bottomed power skiff. After reviewing the plans I find dimensional lumber in the following thicknesses - 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 1, 1-1/16, 1-1/8, 1-1/2, and 1-5/8 inches. I don't see how it is possible for me to build this boat without a thickness planer. Any suggestions (other than go buy one)?

Ralph

P.S. - I realize people built boats for thousands of years without a thickness planer, but they had much more skill, expertise and experience than I ever will.

[Garrett Lowell]

The alternative would be to build a thickness planer. There is a recent thread on this subject, just do a search on "Thickness Sander", or maybe it was "Thickness Planer". It looked do-able to me.

[Garrett Lowell]

Here is the link to the earlier mentioned thread:
http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=001090

[Art Read]

It's still a pretty big chunk of change, but my Delta "lunchbox" 12 1/2" planer worked fine for my needs on this project. The big, "heavy iron" units are sure a pleasure to use, but this little "Tiawan Turkey" as I've heard 'em called, WILL get the job done on a "smallish" project. Loud buggers though... I think they run about about $350 now, but mine was worth every penny to me. I'm sure I've spent more than that on all the little "consumables" like chip brushes and sandpaper, etc. At least I'll still have that planer when I'm done. Might have to build something "square" after the boat's done, just to see what it feels like! ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid16/p9d6b78e6441437436acf9b274a9c72db/fdef50b1.jpg

[ 06-05-2002, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Art Read ]

[Garrett Lowell]

Art,

I picked up the very same thing not in February, and it was 299, including the stand. It's been great.

[Garrett Lowell]

BTW Art, what are you building? It looks wonderful!

[Garrett Lowell]

Got it Art (Dark Harbour 12 1/2)

[Beowolf]

I bought the DeWalt for a different project. Great unit. very happy with it so far.

As for building a boat without one, balance the cost of resawing all the material that you need against purchasing one. Also, some lumeryards, especially those that sell boat lumber, will plane to a given thickness for a small fee.

Good luck and take care.

Jeff.

[Art Read]

Garrett... Maybe you missed this the first time? A bit more "up to date..."

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004848

[Garrett Lowell]

It's just as good the second time around, Art, I did see it the first! I just need to upgrade my memory! Would that it were so easy.

[Bob Cleek]

In the olden days when men were men, they planed plank to thickness with hand planes! I guess that's what the apprentices were for. I've tried it on little stuff just to "educate" myself and it's a whole lot of elbow grease, even for the little four foot plank I was playing with. You have to have a really sharp well tuned plane as well. Don't bother going there! LOL

The "lunchbox" planers are excellent values for the money. Check out Fine Woodworking Magazine's back issues because they did a good comparison report on them about a year ago. There are various considerations which escape me now, like whether you want to go with sharpenable blades or disposable blades, and so on.

Don't overlook picking up a used behemouth cast iron planer for a very reasonable price as well. New, the Delta 14" and it's Jet clone (both apparently cast in the same Taiwanese foundry) run between $1200 and $1500 or so, but very much worth the price. If you ever see a used Parks 14" in the want ads, grab it! The major advantage of the full size stationary planers is horsepower. You can take a bigger bite, which means fewer passes. Also, if you are planing hardwoods, you will appreciate the power. A used stationary planer can sometimes be found for around $400-600 or so. I got my Rockwell-Delta 240 VAC 14" for $600 and all it needed was the blades sharpened.

Keep in mind that by buying your wood rough and flitch cut, rather than finished, you will get more useable plank out of the sweeps and save a considerable amount of money on the raw wood purchase. In short order, you will have "paid for" that powered planer! Also, if you have no need for it after the boat is built, the stationary machine, if bought used, will probably sell for what you paid for it. If you are a wheeler-dealer, maybe even more.

[Bruce Taylor]

Adze, broadaxe, jackplane and a lot of sweat.

Last I checked, the cheapest portable Delta was running less than 300 Canadian dollars at some outlets. This will be the best money you ever spent. I resisted buying one for years, thinking I was happy with my handtools. I was happy, but I sure wasn't productive. The planer gives you the power to recycle boards that you would never undertake to resurface by hand. It enables you to buy unsurfaced lumber, at a fraction of the cost of processed boards. It will save you more money than any tool in your shop.

The homemade thickness sander featured in Garrett's link is the one I built. It's a dandy tool, but no substitute for the planer.

[ 06-05-2002, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[Michael]

I have hand-planed approx. 75 feet of 1X12 of sawmill lumber for the keel and stem of my Weekender. My right arm is now bigger than my left. But now I know how to use a handplane! Quite an experience. Plus all those curly-qs were good for my compost box.

:D

[Bruce Taylor]

"In the olden days, when men were men..."

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid22/p633c07fd3075570a45deba873165077b/fdac64ff.jpg

[Tom Jackson]

Because I didn't have the money for a thickness planer and also didn't have the length of shop necessary to run 22' planks through a stationary machine, I bought a Makita hand-held power planer to bring my planks down nearly to dimension, then finished them with a No. 7 hand jointer plane. It is labor, yes, but it really wasn't that bad.

[Northernguy59]

Bruce,

Whats the story on the log spliting?

Remember: "The strength of a man is not measured on what he must have, but what he can do without"

[ 06-05-2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Northernguy59 ]

[John of Phoenix]

Having spent a bit of time going thru Amazon's and Epinion’s reviews, I'm planning on getting a Delta 22-560. It gets very good marks and comes in as one of the least expensive at $300. It's predecessor the 22-540, at $270, seems to have some problems with snipe and dust control. The De Walt DW733 gets just a few negative comments, but they're pretty nasty regarding inaccuracy, and it comes in at $380.

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by UncleRalph:
[QB]How do you build a traditional boat without owning a thickness planer?[QB]The traditional way is with winding sticks, straightedges and handplanes--scrub, jointer, jack and smoother. You will wind up with burly muscles if you choose to go this route. But you will earn yourself a membership in SWEAT (Society of Workers in Early Arts and Trades (http://www.sweatrag.org)).

A good reference on handplane technique is Planecraft (http://www3.woodcraft.com/Planes&Spokeshaves/woodworking/3421.htm), originally published by Record, but for the last 30 years or so, kept in print by Woodcraft Supply.

Patrick's Blood and Gore (http://www.supertools.com) is a great source (more than you ever wanted to know!) of lore on Stanley planes.

The Electronic Neanderthal (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/en.html) is a good jumping off place to find other woodbutchers, galoots and cranks.

In a nutshell, surfacing a board with handtools involves:

</font> Cut the stock to rough length/width</font> Flatten one face.</font> Square an adjacent edge</font> Flatten the opposite face (and take it down to final thickness.)</font> Square the opposite edge (and take it down to final width.)</font>That's it in a nutshell.
Flatten One Face

Scrub Plane

The scrub plane is the weapon of choice for hogging a lot of stock from a rough piece of wood quickly. The Stanley No. 40 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan5.htm#num40) is the canonical scrub plane. The salient features of a scrub plane are

</font> Narrow Blade. You're taking an awfully thick cut, so you want to make it manageable. The Stanley #40 is 1-1/4 inches wide.</font> Convex Blade. The blade of a scrub plane is ground to a fairly tight radius, so it has a fingernail shape. It protrudes below the sole and plows a rather distinctive groove.</font> Open Throat. The throat of a scrub plane is wide open. This is a tool for roughing out, not finishing.</font>The scrub plane is used on the bias. You plane diagonally with respect to the grain. It cuts faster and easier this way. Two passes ore ordinarily taken, first on one bias and then on the other. Because it plows a groove, you're left with small hillocks in a diamond pattern.

Jointer Plane

We use the jointer plane (for example, Stanley Nos. 7 and 8 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm#num7)) to flatten out the hillocks. Jointer planes have looooong soles and mass. Shorter planes tend to follow the ups and down and don't do a good job of flattening the plank. The mass of the plane helps plow through knots and wayward grain.

Jack Plane

At this point, you should have a [more-or-less] flat surface. Refine it with the jack plane (Stanley No. 5 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm#num5) or equivalent). The jack is your basic workhorse plane. It's a bit shorter than the jointer, but still carries some reasonable mass. Use winding sticks to check for wind (twist) in the board and to guide you as to where you should concentrate your efforts to get rid of the unwanted twist.

Smoothing Planes

Smoothing Planes (1-4 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm)) are used for final refinement of the surface. Smoothers usually have a much finer throat so as to prevent tearout.

At this point, you should have a flat reference face with not twist.

Square One Edge

Using your jointer (see above) and a shooting board, square one edge. This is your reference edge.

Flatten the Opposite Face

Using your marking gauge, scribe, off the reference face, the finished thickness of the plank on the edges. Following the same basic process as described above, flatten the face opposite the reference face and take it down to final thickness.

Square the Opposite Edge

Using your marking gauge, mark the final width, off the reference edge, on both faces. With a jointer and shooting board, square this edge and take it down to final width.

At this point you should a board surfaced on all sides and ready to use. You should also have a huge pile of shavings and sore muscles.

Bear in mind that when this was how boards were surfaced this way, only exposed surface were finished. If it didn't show it got the scrub plane treatment only. Faying surfaces for joints would get surfaced, but only in the vicinity of the joint -- winding sticks were used to ensure that no twist was introduced.

No sense doing work nobody would see.

[Ladyhawke]

I have a Delta 12" planer....works great and recycles alot of free lumber. My advice: Buy and planer. It will really only cost you half, since you can sell it for that much or more when the project has been completed.

[JimConlin]

A thickness planer is near the top of the list, BUT I find that, as long as the needed widths are less than 3" or so, I can make do with my table saw Powermatic #66 w/ Biesemeyer fence).

[wolfietuk]

You can also make friends with someone with a planer. Most woodworkers are friendly sorts who love their job. If you can find a smaller woodworking or cabinet shop and make friends you may find some help. There are also probably some clubs around your area, woodworking, possibly even boatbuilding. Everyone gets together and collectively they have plenty of tools and experience.

Rick

[Victorious]

I have an old 10 inch Sheppach which I bought secondhand for £150.
I would not be without it.
It has saved me a fortune in being able to buy rough sawn timber.
It has saved me thousands of hours of labour.
I could sell it any day of the week for at least the price i paid for it.
Buy a planer thicknesser!
Two sets of sharpenable blades are in my opinion essential, as sharp blades make easy, clean and accurate work. (I touch up the blades regularly with a diamond stone and send them to be reground once or twice a year to keep the nice and true smile.gif

[Bruce Taylor]

NOrthernguy, the log-splitters are making "Roar Ege," a reconstruction of a Viking trading ship. The boat is modelled after one of the original vessels found at Skuldelev. The crew built the boat entirely with tools and methods that would have been familiar to an iron-age craftsman. They wove their own sails, twisted their own ropes, and, as you see, split their own planks.

Anything humans have done, you can do. The question is: do you want to? LOL

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

I have thicknessed wood by scrub plane. You can do it, but I still go by the assertion that I teach in my boatbuilding classes that boatbuilders must have a table saw and a planer.

no way around it.

[norske2]

Ah, yes, B.Cleek, "when men were men...... and the women loved it!", as my Brother use to say. :D

Ah,yes, Northenguy59....."The measure of a man is how much he can do without"...my Father use to say.."any fool can work with tools.....it takes a good man to work without them".. :D

I wonder how old man Noah "planed his planks"..?? :confused:

[Jeff Evans]

I just asked around until I found someone who was willing to let me use his planer/jointer. It cost me a 6-pack of good homebrew and the invitation stands for thicknessing future lumber loads. Good beer is the key here!

[ 06-06-2002, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Jeff Evans ]

[Billy Bones]

Ummm, Uncle Ralph asked how he could avoid buying a thickness planer. To me, the best answer is using a BANDSAW to thickness and PLANE to finish. A bandsaw is a much more useful tool to the boatbuilder (tho' perhaps not to the cabinetmaker) and a plane is a must anyway. If you're going to invest in a tool to build the boat, make it the biggest baddest used bandsaw you can afford, and get a book on how to tune it. Good luck.

[John of Phoenix]

Nicholas,

Thank you for a facinating lesson in woodworking. I expect that all those hand planes would come close to the cost of a planer, but man, what a process! Gives me a new appreciation for power tools.

[Wayne Jeffers]

Originally posted by UncleRalph:
How do you build a traditional boat without owning a thickness planer?Uncle Ralph,

Another option for avoiding buying a thickness planer: There are still some old-fashioned lumber-yards which do custom mill-work. They will have a large stationary planer with lots of infeed/outfeed room for milling your lumber to whatever thickness you want. (And lots of other milling equipment!) The rates they charge are usually reasonable and you could be money ahead as compared to buying a portable thickness planer, depending upon how much milling you needed done.

Wayne

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by JohnT:
Thank you for a facinating lesson in woodworking. I expect that all those hand planes would come close to the cost of a planer, but man, what a process! Gives me a new appreciation for power tools.But even with the power planer, you don't get away without flattening/jointing two reference surfaces when you're squaring up. The planer won't get rid of wind.

[ken mcclure]

When I'm working rough-cut lumber, I flatten one side on the jointer, run the piece through the table saw to get one straight edge and then pass that edge over the jointer. I then run it through the table saw again to true the other side, and last of all I run it through the planer to get the desired thickness.

Running the piece over the jointer usually takes the "wind" or twist out as long as you're careful with it.

BTW, I got a sale catalog from Woodworker's Warehouse today, and it shows a Delta 12 1/2" planer sith stand for $296.10 "after Woodworker's Warehouse Credit Card Discount."

I assume that means that you need to get one of their credit cards to get the unit at that price. Regular price is $349. They also have a Reliant 6" jointer at $251.10 and a Reliant 14" band saw at $269.10.

Not bad prices or equi?ubnt for a light- to medium-duty shop!

[Paul Scheuer]

Per Wayne's comment, above. I had a lot of oak and mahogany milled by the shop where I bought it. They had a standard shop fee that was something like $20 per hour. Not bad. Then I asked them to do the cedar that I bought elsewhere. They said "sure, but we don't know if there's anything in the wood. If we ruin a set of knives, you pay for 'em, right ?" Being young & dumb, I said "sure". They did a fine job, no problems. Then I priced a set of 48" knives.

[jeff pierce]

If you don't feel ready to buy one, I second the advice to borrow one. With a little asking around the office, I had no trouble finding someone with a 12-1/2" Delta they were willing to let me borrow for a while. I promised him a few pieces of my reclaimed mahogany in exchange. Come to think of it, I still haven't returned the planer.

[wolfietuk]

When men were men. Well you could dig up a piece of flint. Break it to get a few pieces with suitably shaped edges. Tie these to sticks (or a small wolly mammoth tusk) with rope you made out of tree bark. Now chop down a suitable tree and drag it to river. Start fire on the top of log. use a stick to start the fire. While burning hack out the inside from log. Please note, If you are relly wanting to do it the old way, Do not wash shave or cut your hair while doing this. hunt and kill your own food cooking is an option. Funny how most traditionalists have their own view of what the old ways were, and what tradition is. Traditionaly man has adapted and improved his techniques with time. The only true tradition is that man doesnt do it the way Grandpa did it, but learns from past experiences of his forefathers and advances that learning a little each lifetime.

Rick

[Garrett Lowell]

I believe the Amish men are still men! Truly the only purists of any kind left.

[Beowolf]

Garrett, in that case, I would question the number of amish that you know.

Jeff.

[Garrett Lowell]

In truth, I know no Amish. But I believe they are as close to purists as you can get. If I am mistaken, and I usually am, please set me straight!

[wolfietuk]

There was a good article on Amish in fine woodworking back in the 80's. And they were not as traditional as many would think. It is a very wierd mix of old and new. They do not like noise or having to buy electricity from outsiders. Some shops are rigged with a main diesel engine outside. It drives shafts in the shop and machines are run from belts to the shafts. Nice quiet shop.

Rick

[Scott Rosen]

Originally posted by wolfietuk:
[snip] They do not like noise or having to buy electricity from outsiders. Some shops are rigged with a main diesel engine outside. [snip]They don't want to buy electricity from the outside, but they must get their diesel engine and fuel from the outside, doncha think?

Traditional alright. Traditional confusion and self-deception if you ask me.

[Beowolf]

I only met a few of them when I worked at the lumberyard. Liked them all. My dad has dealt with a lot of them throughout the years. He liked them all too. But, they're people just like the rest of us. Dad always said that they were the best a making a buck here and there on everything. From what I've read, they seem the same as anyone else. Same problems and advantages that you find in any society, just a different set of rules.

Take Care

Jeff.

BTW - I always seem to see a lot of them at Cedar Point. What's up with that?

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Scott Rosen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wolfietuk:
[snip] They do not like noise or having to buy electricity from outsiders. Some shops are rigged with a main diesel engine outside. [snip]They don't want to buy electricity from the outside, but they must get their diesel engine and fuel from the outside, doncha think?

Traditional alright. Traditional confusion and self-deception if you ask me.</font>[/QUOTE]The point of the Amish, Mennonite and Hutterites eschewing electricity (depending on the sect, of course), is the hew to the commandment

Be Thou Not Conformed to the World

It's not that technology is evil. The point is that using modern technology ties you to the world at large. Limiting the technology used sets them apart and lets them practice their religion in peace.

FWIW, Amish farmers, farming in a style out of fashion for the last century routinely get higher yields than do "English" (non-Amish) farmers in the same areas using "modern" farming techniques -- petro-based fertilizers, diesel tractors, etc.

Improvements, as a friend of mine says, usually aren't.