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cs
01-09-2005, 05:58 PM
Not even the second half and already thrown 2 interceptions.

Of course he is a great quarterback, but is his time about done? More updates as the game goes.

Chad

imported_Dutch
01-09-2005, 06:16 PM
Payton Manning makes him look like day old vomit

Jack Heinlen
01-09-2005, 06:19 PM
It's too, not to. I know, picky, picky, picky, but you want to express well, and it's too. ;)

I have no opinion about football. They lost me twenty five years ago.

cs
01-09-2005, 06:24 PM
Sorry about the typo, Jack.

Wow! Just saw the score of the Indy/Denver game.

Chad

cs
01-09-2005, 06:53 PM
Make the 4 ints.

Chad

Jack Heinlen
01-09-2005, 07:31 PM
Back when it was still a game, and I could care.

http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/001222/time2.jpg

High C
01-09-2005, 07:51 PM
Favre is a spring chicken compared to Morten Andersen, who fell down kicking a field goal for the Vikings. He's almost my age! And a hero to all New Orleanians. He wants to play until he's 50, but I don't think he'll make it. He's about 44 now. :eek:

rbgarr
01-09-2005, 07:53 PM
One of the announcers mentioned that Morton Andersen said (in a pre-game interview) that the field was like 'painted dirt'. :D

Figment
01-09-2005, 08:30 PM
Too old to carry the team on his own? Yeah, almost certainly.

Too old to play at the NFL level? Hellno.

He's throwing a bunch of picks, but he's always done that. A natural consequence of his visceral-over-cerebral approach to the game, and quite an acceptable consequence in my opinion.

His reciever corps isn't what it was, and the packers no longer have a defense that can collect turnovers of their own.

Even if Favre were less mobile than Marino was in his last season, he'd still be invaluable to the team and to the game. He inspires greatness in his teammates, and in his opponents (just ask Sapp or Urlacher) and that sort of thing just can't be taught.

High C
01-09-2005, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by rbgarr:
One of the announcers mentioned that Morton Andersen said (in a pre-game interview) that the field was like 'painted dirt'. :D He does have a hell of a plant with that right foot. He digs in hard and leans waaaaay back when he kicks.

In New Orleans the sportscasters used to say the following after every field goal he kicked: "The great Dane lifts his leg again!" :D

Leon m
01-09-2005, 10:39 PM
I second Figment ... He'll be back next year.
Maybe a new coach would fix it.

htom
01-09-2005, 11:38 PM
Nah, it's just the football gods. All of Minnesota expected the Vikings to tank, so they didn't. Next week, they'll be expected to win, and won't.

alteran
01-09-2005, 11:52 PM
I'll be avoiding any place with people tommmorrow.

Packers this, vikings that, nananananananan

This morning I heard a guy on the radio saying he felt it was his duty to support the team by helping to shovel snow from the seats in the stadium.

HUH?

I'm sure the multimillionare players appreciated his efforts.........

L.W. Baxter
01-09-2005, 11:56 PM
I loved the grin after the illegal forward pass into the end zone.

Don't tell me its not a game anymore, Jack. Brett Favre, for one, is still playing .

bamamick
01-10-2005, 06:57 AM
I think that it's time for Brett to ride off into the sunset. He's always been a favorite of mine, even when he came back from the ruptured spleen to beat Alabama, though the doctors said that he should never play again.

Brett's got too many other things in life to do. It's probably time to go on to the next chapter.

Mickey Lake

cs
01-10-2005, 07:17 AM
Brett is most certaintly an inspiring and talented QB who gives his all every time he steps on the field. But maybe, like Mickey says, it is time for him to step down and enjoy life. I wouldn't want to see Farve hang around and end his carrer at the bottom.

Chad

ps Jack, there are still guys out there that play them game for the love of the game. Farve is just one of them. There are guys that will go out play after play no matter how hurt they are and still give it there all.

brad9798
01-10-2005, 06:20 PM
Did someone say Sapp and/or Urlacher?? tongue.gif Two of the most overrated, well, especially Urlacher, defenders in the game ...

Favre is still very, very good ... in his prime still, really. The team around him is week compared to eight years ago ... Favre has other things on his mind than football these days ... kind of a loss of innocence when family matter outweigh the sport for an athlete ...

His stats have consistently been terrible when he has a long field and plays from behind ... of course, so are nearly all QB's stats (terrible in those situations).

For every great comeback victory, even including those by Elway, there were two or three where they just threw a few INT's lost the game ...

Favre is playing from behind more than he used to; this makes stats less impressive most of the time.

I don't think he has the winning fire of days gone by ... but he still has the talent. But let's face it, for all his grittiness, wins, etc. he was not always beautiful to watch a la P. Manning, or K. Warner of old.

Favre was more of a non-glitzy champ, like Montana.

He's not too old, but he may be through.

Jack Heinlen
01-10-2005, 06:40 PM
Chad,

I have no idea these days. The football scores are a long gone mystery to this kid, both pro and college.

That pic of Y.A. Tittle, at the end of his career with the Giants, circa 1963, sings. He was probably forty, and look at him, beaten. Sacked, the men who beat him gone, he pulled his helmet off and saw it.

I'm sure similar drama is available, but I don't see it. Tittle, a star, was pulling in 12 grand a year, I wager. To be fair, the owner of the Giants was getting rich off him, and now the money is spread around more. But Tittle, and Brian Sipe etc., was there because he had to be, not because it made him much money. The feel of the pigskin made him hard.

I, frankly, don't know who Favre is. I'll bet he is overpaid.

rbgarr
01-10-2005, 06:52 PM
Y. A. Tittle was my younger brothers hero. He could always outplay me at any sport involving a ball and won a NY Giants helmet in a local Punt, Pass 'n Kick event. It was his pride and joy and he even wore it to bed sometimes. He had me pretend to be Del Shofner and dive into piles of autumn leaves while straining to catch his passes.

We watched that game together where Y. A. ended up down on his knees. The then Boston Patriots weren't much to watch.

Figment
01-10-2005, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by brad9798:
Did someone say Sapp and/or Urlacher?? tongue.gif Two of the most overrated, well, especially Urlacher, defenders in the game ...
overrated... yeah, you're probably right. Speaking of players going past their prime, Sapp is certainly past his.

My point was that they (like many defenders in the league) always seem to play an inspired game when Favre is on the field.

Jack Heinlen
01-10-2005, 08:02 PM
We watched that game together where Y. A. ended up down on his knees. I used to love football, watching it. That pic, and you were there, speaks volumes.

I watched it through the early eighties, Sipe to Newsome, Montana to Rice, etc. Lovely expectation and fierce life on a field.

Hard to get worked up much these days. Who the hell is Favre? :confused: ;)

Leon m
01-10-2005, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by cs:
But maybe, like Mickey says, it is time for him to step down and enjoy life.
.BWAH HA HA ! I don't think so. Its the coaching man.

brad9798
01-10-2005, 09:57 PM
I was just ribbing you figment ... mostly.

Past his prime is a better way of putting.

In essence, we agree!! :cool:
---------

Oh, and Jack- no athlete is overpaid. They are just like any other job--They earn what the market will bear. No more, no less.

Not that you are insinuating this at all, but whey do folks complain about athletes and entertainers earning what they do??? Yet, and it's all relative, when a regular Joe takes a position of greater financial reward, it's called 'doing well.'

I know many here don't contribute to athletes salaries DIRECTLY; almost all of us do indirectly ... (think of the products they endorse that you buy).

Anyway, when salaries versus revenues get topsy-turvy in sports, they correct themselves, sometimes dramatically, just like a normal corporation.

The NHL lockout is no different than a huge corp. cutting workforce to remain profitable and/or stop the bleeding ...

Supply and demand ... EVERYTHING in life is supply and demand.

cs
01-11-2005, 07:05 AM
Jack you ask who Brett Farve is and so I will try to answer.

http://images.packers.com/images/headshots/favre_brett.jpg

He is the quarterback for the Green Bay Packers and he is in his 14th season.

At A Glance

Is the NFL's only three-time MVP (1995-97)
Ranks in the NFL's top five in four major passing categories: second in touchdowns (346), fourth in completions (3,960), fifth in attempts (6,464), fifth in yards (45,646)

With a career record of 125-64, holds the fourth-highest winning percentage (.661) among starting QBs who have begun their careers since the 1970 league merger (min. 100 starts)

Possesses a remarkable 29-0 record (36-1 including playoffs) at home when the game-time temperature is 34 degrees or below; passer rating in those contests is 96.0

Has started 189 consecutive games (208 including playoffs), which is an NFL record for a quarterback

First NFL completion was to himself, the quarterback snaring his own deflected aerial for -7 yards in contest at Tampa Bay on Sept. 13, 1992

Established the 'Brett Favre Forward Foundation' in 1996; over the past nine years, in conjunction with his annual golf tournament, celebrity softball game and fundraising dinners, foundation has donated in excess of $1.5 million to charities in his home state of Mississippi as well as to those in his adopted state of Wisconsin

But it really goes beyond that, he is a leade both on and off the field. His persona carries an otherwise lackluster team.

Chad

Leon m
01-05-2008, 05:58 PM
Well I guess the answer is NO.

Paul Pless
01-05-2008, 06:00 PM
Leon:D:D:Ddredged this thread up from the archives eh

you've drunk the koolaide, er um eaten the cheese eh???:p

Leon m
01-05-2008, 06:08 PM
you've drunk the koolaide, er um eaten the cheese eh???:p

I think so.

Oh, but this is the civil thread...I could dig up some rather unsavory comments people have made about thy football god.

Paul Pless
01-05-2008, 06:11 PM
Oh, but this is the civil thread...I could dig up some rather unsavory comments people have made about thy football god.My football god??? Bernie Kosar???

I challenge you to find some negativity on my man!:p

sign me: life long brown fan

Paul Girouard
01-05-2008, 06:30 PM
How about those Seahawks :cool:

L.W. Baxter
01-05-2008, 06:46 PM
I've really enjoyed watching Favre this season.

But I have this nagging feeling...he's an old player who has found phenomenal new life, shades of...Roger Clemens?

If it turned out that Favre has cheated I might swear off watching sports entirely. That would be the last friggin straw.

Paul Girouard
01-05-2008, 07:50 PM
I hope he looks real old next weekend :D Seahawks - GB "Bring it on "eh!

Paul Pless
01-05-2008, 07:55 PM
I've really enjoyed watching Favre this season.

But I have this nagging feeling...he's an old player who has found phenomenal new life, shades of...Roger Clemens?

If it turned out that Favre has cheated I might swear off watching sports entirely. That would be the last friggin straw.Nah I doubt it, he's already had one run in with the league's substance abuse policy, and that automatically places him at increased scrutiny in the NFL, doubt he'd risk another.

S.V. Airlie
01-06-2008, 07:19 AM
Not even the second half and already thrown 2 interceptions.

Of course he is a great quarterback, but is his time about done? More updates as the game goes.

Chad

If I recognize his name, and I do, and if I remember following hs efforts on the field years ago, I'd say yes, he is too old.:rolleyes:

Mark Van
01-06-2008, 12:49 PM
I would like to see the Packers beat the Patriots in the super bowl, and Favre say "I can't top this, I'm retiring". I don't think that will happen, I think they will have a tough time beating the Seahawks. I think Favre will play at least one more season.

Leon m
01-06-2008, 12:56 PM
Mark I agree with everything you said...Spot on...but man it would be nice for him to go out by beating the Pats in the big bowl.

Paul Girouard
01-06-2008, 03:12 PM
Mark I agree with everything you said...Spot on...but man it would be nice for him to go out by beating the Pats in the big bowl.



http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dirtbox/pics/muttley.gif



Dream on Leon ,

http://www.seattlephil.com/images/laughing.gif

cs
01-07-2008, 07:35 AM
Somebody had to dig real deap to dig this one up and that somebody (Leon) probably has a long memory when it comes to anything said about any cheeseheads.

But I guess I was wrong back than. Maybe Farve had one more season left in him. I can be wrong about some things. You know I actually thought that Vick was the QB of the future, Didn't know he was a true to life Longest Yard canidate.

Chad

Vince Brennan
01-07-2008, 08:04 AM
Back then we (well, at last I) thought that Vick was well on his way to becoming the Bret Favre of the future. I thought a few more years at the head of an NFL team would "settle" him down and he'd start playing to his undoubted and truly impressive potential, but it was not to be.

Had he not "fallen by the wayside of civilized behaviour", there's no doubt that he'd have eclipsed the majority of QB's who've ever payed and would be a true contender to hold the majority of records by the time he retired.

You saw the potential but no-one can see the future.

Is Favre too old? He can still play, he seems still to have that fire in his belly to get out there and win and if the Team is willing to stick with him, then no... barring injury, he's not too old.

We'll see what happens next week... if the Pack winds up on it's back, then he may just give it up. If they go "allaway", I doubt very much that GB will have a new QB next year.

(I know.... Captain Obvious strikes again, but I just hadda say it.)

((This proggie needs a splee-chucker!))

Paul Girouard
01-07-2008, 09:58 AM
I think I read where Vick gettin out of jail ALREADY, so good prisoner thing:rolleyes:

I hope Farve looks old this coming weekend !

Go Hawks!

Leon m
01-07-2008, 11:10 AM
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dirtbox/pics/muttley.gif



Dream on Leon ,

http://www.seattlephil.com/images/laughing.gif

Oh, this ones getting filed for the future. ;)

Paul Girouard
01-07-2008, 09:00 PM
Oh, this ones getting filed for the future. ;)



Don't trot it out this coming weekend , either way the game goes.

The contex was the Pac beating the Pat's , this season :D in the Super Bowl.

Joe (SoCal)
01-12-2008, 05:52 PM
Ummmmm after the last play I would say he might deserve a raise ;)
Farve is on fire

Beowolf
01-12-2008, 07:04 PM
It was on Sportscenter this morning that for the first time in the past few years, Farve has come out before the end of the season and said that he will return again next year if the team still wants him. The Governer released a statement of optimism in regards to his return. The coach stated that he will discuss all options after the season is over.

Personally, I don't think that Farve is really all that different than he was 5-10 years ago. Other than the fact that he has a handle on all the off field problems. He's still reckless and he has the memory of a goldfish. Two qualities that can potentially make for an unstoppable QB, if he has a team that plays to that level. (I.e. Donald Driver, Bubba Franks, and a better than average RB) Think about it. The years when Green Bay has struggled are when they have a sub par RB. As long as there's a ligitimate threat of a run and receivers who are willing to make plays downfield, Farve is an incredible asset to any team because regardless of what happened on the last snap, he is willing to sling the ball into any downfield situation. (approximately 290 INT's can't be wrong.)

The perfect example was the Monday Night game when his father died. Yeah, he chucked up 300 yards in the first half, but no one seems to remember how many spectacular catches were made and how many of those catches were all the more amazing as the receivers would literally snatch the ball out of the DB's hands.

I guess my point is, if you're Green Bay, and if you can hang onto the guys around him, then you're a fool to let Brett Farve go, because he'll be that same guy on the field next year, and you sure as hell won't find that in anyone else.

Jeff

Gulfcoastbreeze
01-12-2008, 08:41 PM
"Is Favre too old?"

Uhh, no.

38 is the new 37.

merlinron
01-12-2008, 08:53 PM
aaahhhh, ok, the game's over......ummmm, what was that question, now?

Paul Girouard
01-12-2008, 08:57 PM
aaahhhh, ok, the game's over......ummmm, what was that question, now?



What you need a hearing trumpet??

Chad asked this question Jan. 9 , 2005 , Farve's sort of timeless eh :D

Gulfcoastbreeze
01-12-2008, 08:59 PM
Agreed! I just hope against hope that when he retires at age 48 he'll want to be a colorful addition to the MNF booth.

Nanoose
01-12-2008, 09:14 PM
evidently not

Leon m
01-14-2008, 08:32 AM
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dirtbox/pics/muttley.gif



Dream on Leon ,

http://www.seattlephil.com/images/laughing.gif

Everyday is getting closer to the dream...I know your feeling me now. :)

http://shaq.itgo.com/brett_favre1.jpg

David Tabor (sailordave)
01-14-2008, 09:00 AM
Uh, in a word.... NO!;)

And the &^%$$#$%g Cowboys lost...:p

So did Indy...


Wouldn't it be great to see Favre v. Brady???

I don't follow football much but I can safely say THAT would be a game! And one in which I don't know who I'd want to win. 19-0 would be phenomenal, but Bret deserves another win.

Mark Van
01-14-2008, 11:53 AM
Brett is 0 for 9 in Dallas, so lots of Packers fans are glad the Giants won. However, the Giants have been playing great lately, but can thay win in Green Bay in January?

Leon m
01-14-2008, 09:15 PM
, the Giants have been playing great lately, but can thay win in Green Bay in January?

That is the question...all I can say is they better bring their best game.

Leon m
01-14-2008, 09:17 PM
Oh...and the weatherman says a high of about 8 degrees on sunday so they better bring some long underware too. ;)

jack grebe
01-15-2008, 06:53 AM
Uh,

And the &^%$$#$%g Cowboys lost...:p


OH, Happy Day.

Un fortunately, that also means I have no favorite teams left this season

1) PHILADELPHIA EAGLES

2) WHO EVER PLAYS DALLAS

Paul Pless
01-15-2008, 07:32 AM
high of about 8 degreesridiculous:eek:

cs
01-15-2008, 07:33 AM
I guess with the choices I have left I've become a Packer fan.

Don't anyone dare repeat that!

Chad

Leon m
01-15-2008, 09:54 AM
I guess with the choices I have left I've become a Packer fan.

Don't anyone dare repeat that!

Chad

OK, I won't. :D

Leon m
01-15-2008, 09:55 AM
I guess with the choices I have left I've become a Packer fan.

Don't anyone dare repeat that!

Chad

Sorry, cant help it. :D

Leon m
01-15-2008, 09:56 AM
I guess with the choices I have left I've become a Packer fan.

Don't anyone dare repeat that!

Chad

Repeat what ? :D

Leon m
01-15-2008, 09:57 AM
I guess with the choices I have left I've become a Packer fan.

Don't anyone dare repeat that!

Chad

Face it...everybodies a Packer fan deep in their heart...they are and always have been "America's Team".

Leon m
01-18-2008, 12:52 PM
Getting closer...hope everbodies stocked up on cheese. :D

Mark Van
01-19-2008, 02:35 PM
I'ts supposed to be close to 0 degrees during the game. Bring on the ice bowl.

Wild Wassa
01-19-2008, 03:52 PM
I can smell good cheese from here, its a top quality Cheese Wizz called ... Brett Farve's Matured Premium and it is only fed to brilliant wide recievers ... fed to all five of them.

I was looking at the game day festivities program on NFL.com and there is a feature on the program called "Welcome Celebrities with Disabilities to Lambeau Field." ... see football fans, that just proves what a nice bunch of guys and gals the Packers' organizers are, to go to the trouble of extending that courtesy. Who else would welcome the Giants team to their home field that way?

They are so tuff in Green Bay they keep the game ball in the freezer. The ball is so cold it just sticks to flesh ... that is for Grant's first quarter benefit.

I'll be having the afternoon off work on Monday to watch the game. NFL is played at a most civilized time in Australia.

Go the Pack.

Warren.

Tealsmith
01-19-2008, 08:35 PM
Since the Colts are gone....Go Packers. I like the fact that they are a small market team, and community owned.

Paul Girouard
01-20-2008, 10:15 PM
Getting closer...hope everbodies stocked up on cheese. :D




Lil Eli's got yer cheese Leon ,

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dirtbox/pics/muttley.gif

Interceptions , Brett's weakness eh !

Paul Pless
01-21-2008, 07:14 AM
Good news Chad... this thread will probably fade away now... at least until Farve signs a new contract later this year.

Wild Wassa
01-21-2008, 07:30 AM
Fade away? Tomorrow is another day for Packer fans. It was still a very good season.

I worked this afternoon and missed the game. I only just saw the kick then on the news, that sunk Green Bay. I will not get to see the Superbowl next week. I'll be yacht racing ... I'm prepared to make some sacrifices.

The Giants might win next week, there are trends for teams to lose final matches when they have been undefeated. The ARL grand finals have proved that to we Aussies.

I'll have a bet on the Giants to beat the Pats if I can get to a TAB in Melbourne. The odds should be very good. The Giants by 16+ points could give big odds for little outlay.

It was a tragic result today, down to one kick, anyway tomorrow is another day ... and it was a good kick.

Warren.

Paul Girouard
01-21-2008, 09:48 AM
Leon must be in mourning or his butt's frozen to the bleachers at Lambeau field :D

WW your in luck , Super bowl isn't next week , it's 03 Feb. 2008. Check your local listing for start times and dates it may well be 04 Feb. 2008 in your world / down under as it starts later in the day (prime time TV schedule) here in the states.


And Mr. Pless why would Chad want his thread to die such a prenature death , Brett I'd guess , will be back , why not almost made the big dance , again ! He's almost timeless, and with this big depression coming he may need a lil more cash!

Leon m
01-21-2008, 01:39 PM
Dang !...Next year.

Mark Van
01-21-2008, 02:56 PM
The giants are one probably the only team that made the playoffs who could actually beat the patriots. they came closer than any team to beating them, in a game that was really meaningless to the giants. I don't think any team before has beat the Packers at home to win a championship game. their defense could stop, or at least slow down the patriots offense.

Leon m
01-21-2008, 03:03 PM
I have to agree with you...any team that can play that good on the road under those conditions deserves to go to the Super Bowl...and I think they have a good shot at disrupting the Pat's offense.

Wild Wassa
01-21-2008, 03:07 PM
Paul, thanks for telling me that. I wasn't looking forward to missing the game. I'm very glad my two most loved sports will not clash.

I'm still going to have a bet on the Giants to win by 16+ points to make the day more interesting.

In Australia the game is not being shown on ESPN, which means I might have to go to my football club and drink beer just so I can watch the game on the big screen.

Life isn't meant to be easy.

Warren.

cs
01-21-2008, 06:25 PM
Back to the orginal question "Is Farve to old?" Not sure about that but after watching the game you can see why he holds the record for most interceptions. That forced throw in OT was one he is probably thinking twice about today.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
01-21-2008, 06:35 PM
I don't know a damn thing about Football but watching the play off games I can see Farve as being a bit wild and fast with his throws, sometimes that kind of recklessness pays off and sometimes it doesn't. When it does it's the stuff of front page sports section, when it doesn't it's called reckless and inconsistent.

Just my totally newbie assessment.

Paul Pless
01-21-2008, 06:37 PM
Joe, that post sounds like someone who's been watching Farve play for the last 15 years!:D:D

Joe (SoCal)
01-21-2008, 06:41 PM
Joe, that post sounds like someone who's been watching Farve play for the last 15 years!:D:D

Oh you should see how well I fluff it when Im tending bar - Its actually a thing of amazement. It would BLOW your mind how I totally pull it off. Better than watching "The Wedding Crashers" :D

cs
01-21-2008, 07:32 PM
Joe there is a reason Farve is one of the best quarterbacks to play the game and that has a direct releationship with him having the record for most interceptions. He is one that is not afraid to throw the ball into questionable situations. When it works it is great, when it don't you end up with what you had last night. All in all he is one that you want as a QB.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
01-21-2008, 08:54 PM
Joe there is a reason Farve is one of the best quarterbacks to play the game and that has a direct releationship with him having the record for most interceptions. He is one that is not afraid to throw the ball into questionable situations. When it works it is great, when it don't you end up with what you had last night. All in all he is one that you want as a QB.

Chad

I know I'm new at this but Isn't that what I just said ?????

cs
01-21-2008, 08:59 PM
Yeah but in football we don't call it reckless, we call it being aggressive. :D

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
01-21-2008, 09:05 PM
Ahhh nomenclature ;)

cs
01-21-2008, 09:13 PM
Joe next time the guys at the bar are talking about football tell 'em that you think that Farve is nothing but a gunslinger.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
01-21-2008, 09:15 PM
That would exactly have been the word I would have used. WOW amazing, this football thing is easy ;)

Tom Montgomery
01-21-2008, 09:36 PM
... Farve is one of the best quarterbacks to play the game ...Ah... how soon we forget.

Favre is a Hall-of-Famer, no doubt, but I'm not sure he would crack my top 10 all-time. Passing statistics are flashy but the QB position is about winning Championships. Turning the ball over frequently is a HUGE negative, in that regard.

Here is my top-ten all-time (in no particular order):

Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Terry Bradshaw
Tom Brady
Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
John Elway
Bob Griese
Steve Young
Roger Staubach

There's a group behind these in which I think Favre belongs: Marino, Namath, Tarkenton, Manning, Kelly.

ishmael
01-21-2008, 10:02 PM
OK, someone has to confess, who's Favre? I know, I know, he's one of the top QBs, but I wouldn't have known it until the play-off season.

No smugness, people who get worked about sports are fine in my book(though I think it gets carried away.) Genuine ignorance on my part.

cs
01-21-2008, 10:12 PM
I have to disagree with you Tom. Dan Marino is the greatest to ever play the game. He don't have a championship because it is a team and one is not enough.

Now Joe that we have you on the path, your next assigment is to give a brief recap on why the Run & Shoot offense doesn't work in the NFL.

Chad

And Jack not to be smug, but Brett Farve has been the wonder boy of Green Bay for a few years now. He first started as a Falcon and the than head coach (Jerry Glanvile) said something to the effect that it would take a plane crash before he started Brett Farve, and thus the start of the Cheesehead Curse. Although can it really be a curse being as we weren't too much good prior to that?

Tom Montgomery
01-21-2008, 10:15 PM
Here you go, Jack: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre

He has won two Super Bowls. He is one of the top 15 or so all-time. But I think that game Sunday was one that the very best would have won. As good as he is -- and he IS good, no question -- I'd rather have any one of the ten I listed when a game is on the line.

Tom Montgomery
01-21-2008, 10:18 PM
I have to disagree with you Tom. Dan Marino is the greatest to ever play the game.One of the pleasures of sports is to have these kinds of debates. :D

Marino is one of the greats -- no question -- but I'd rather have Elway.

cs
01-21-2008, 10:21 PM
While Joe Montana and Steve Young are great QB's I'm not sure I would rather have them. They were good at the West Coast Offense, but I wonder how they would fit elsewhere? I still think Marino is the best that ever was.

Chad

cs
01-21-2008, 10:22 PM
Elway is one of those I never grew to love. Don't he lead the NFL in fourth quarter comebacks?

Chad

Tom Montgomery
01-21-2008, 10:24 PM
Being a life-long Browns fan I HATED Elway!

But he carried his team to five Super Bowls, winning two of them.

Tom Montgomery
01-21-2008, 10:28 PM
As for Dan Marino being the greatest ever....

During an astounding career in which the Browns compiled a 105-17-4 record, at the time of his retirement Otto Graham's 86.6 career pass rating (combined AAFC and NFL) served as one of the best of all time, tossing 88 touchdowns in ten seasons of play.

In his final year of play, Graham won the Hickok Belt as top professional athlete of the year, and ten years later, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

In 1999, he was ranked number 7 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Football Players, the highest-ranking player who had played in the AAFC.

Otto Graham is considered by many historians to be one of the greatest winners in the history of professional sports.

Graham played six seasons in the NFL and took the Cleveland Browns to the NFL Championship Game all six seasons, winning three NFL titles.

Including four seasons in which his team captured four AAFC titles, Graham played ten total seasons of professional football and made the league championship game all ten seasons, winning seven league titles.

In his single season as a professional basketball player, the Rochester Royals also captured the league title. Thus, in 11 seasons as a professional athlete, Otto Graham's teams made the championship all eleven years, winning eight titles.

cs
01-21-2008, 10:31 PM
Impressive. That is a winner for sure.

Chad

Tom Montgomery
01-21-2008, 10:40 PM
The Sporting News, 1999, 100 Greatest Football Players

1. Jim Brown
2. Jerry Rice
3. Joe Montana
4. Lawrence Taylor
5. Johnny Unitas
6. Don Hutson
7. Otto Graham
8. Walter Payton
9. Dick Butkus
10. Bob Lilly

11. Sammy Baugh

12. Barry Sanders

13. Deacon Jones

14. Joe Greene

15. Gino Marchetti

16. John Elway

17. Anthony Munoz

18. Ray Nitschke

19. Night Train Lane

20. John Hannah

21. Gale Sayers

22. Reggie White

23. Ronnie Lott

24. Jim Parker

25. Merlin Olsen

26. O.J. Simpson

27. Dan Marino

28. Forrest Gregg

29. Roger Staubach

30. Jack Lambert

31. Lance Alworth

32. Marion Motley

33. Earl Campbell

34. Alan Page

35. Bronko Nagurski

36. Mel Blount

37. Deion Sanders

38. Eric Dickerson

39. Sid Luckman

40. Raymond Berry

41. Bart Starr

42. Willie Lanier

43. Larry Wilson

44. Terry Bradshaw

45. Herb Adderley

46. Steve Largent

47. Jack Ham

48. John Mackey

49. Bill George

50. Willie Brown

51. Randy White
52. Bobby Layne
53. Tony Dorsett
54. Chuck Bednarik
55. Art Shell
56. Mike Singletary
57. Roosevelt Brown
58. Bruce Smith
59. Fran Tarkenton
60. Paul Warfield

61. Ken Houston

62. Gene Upshaw

63. Steve Young

64. Ted Hendricks

65. Joe Schmidt

66. Bobby Bell

67. Buck Buchanan

68. Emmitt Smith

69. Willie Davis

70. Emlen Tunnell

71. Lenny Moore

72. Marcus Allen

73. Kellen Winslow

74. Mel Hein

75. Mike Webster

76. Sam Huff

77. Steve Van Buren

78. Jim Otto

79. Larry Little

80. Red Grange

81. Darrell Green

82. Brett Favre

83. Franco Harris

84. Dwight Stephenson

85. Charley Taylor

86. Jack Christiansen

87. Rod Woodson

88. Jim Thorpe

89. Elroy Hirsch

90. Mike Ditka

91. Art Monk

92. Dan Fouts

93. Mike Haynes

94. Fred Biletnikoff

95. Troy Aikman

96. Joe Namath

97. Lem Barney

98. George Blanda

99. Lou Groza

100. Charlie Joiner

Tom Montgomery
01-21-2008, 10:47 PM
So The Sporting News' top 10 quarterbacks were:

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Joe Montana
3. Otto Graham
4. Sammy Baugh
5. John Elway
6. Dan Marino
7. Roger Staubach
8. Sid Luckman
9. Bart Starr
10. Terry Bradshaw

Marino is the only one in that group without an NFL Championship. The list was compiled almost nine years ago. Favre was 88 on the list. He has certainly moved up in that time. Where do you think Tom Brady belongs?

peb
01-22-2008, 12:31 AM
So The Sporting News' top 10 quarterbacks were:

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Joe Montana
3. Otto Graham
4. Sammy Baugh
5. John Elway
6. Dan Marino
7. Roger Staubach
8. Sid Luckman
9. Bart Starr
10. Terry Bradshaw

Marino is the only one in that group without an NFL Championship. The list was compiled almost nine years ago. Favre was 88 on the list. He has certainly moved up in that time. Where do you think Tom Brady belongs?

Nothing better than playing best q-back ever. Here's mine:

1) Joe Montana
2) Terry Bradshaw
3) Roger Staubach
4) Johnny Unitas
5) Bart Starr


The top two cannot be disputed. I know this, I have been a Cowboy fan for a long time and when the steelers or 49ers needed a touchdown and they walked on the field, you just knew your lead wasn't going to hold. We always considered Staubach the comeback king, but those two had ice in their veins. They just didn't choke. Bradshaw does not get near the credit he deserves.

Tom list is correct about one thing: Marino does not get top ten listing. I would put Elway, Steve Young, Brett Favre, and Troy Aikman above him and i am not for sure any of them are in the top ten (Elway probably is).

peb
01-22-2008, 12:33 AM
He has certainly moved up in that time. Where do you think Tom Brady belongs?


I think that Tom Brady could very well end up on the top of the list, but he may have to fight for the top spot with Peyton Manning. And I never thought I would say anyone was better than Montana or Bradshaw.

cs
01-22-2008, 08:07 AM
One thing, Tom Brady has a great supporting cast which really helps him a lot. Now I can't be sure if Brady is the best or not, I've not watched enough of him.

A great QB is going to be one that takes what you give him. I know that sounds kinda cliche, but it is the truth. I think Payton Manning falls into this catagory. And to be honest with you I think that the young quarterback coming out of TN (Eric Ange) is another one of those.

Chad

peb
01-22-2008, 09:27 AM
One thing, Tom Brady has a great supporting cast which really helps him a lot. Now I can't be sure if Brady is the best or not, I've not watched enough of him.


All great quarterbacks have had great supporting casts. I will only say this much, the week before last, Brady was 26 for 28. The two incompletions were dropped by receivers. He was perfect in a playoff game. That does not happen very often.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 09:44 AM
Now Joe that we have you on the path, your next assigment is to give a brief recap on why the Run & Shoot offense doesn't work in the NFL.



Well again speaking as a total novice from what I can figure out What I like is it doesn't waste downs; everything moves the ball up field and fast. But key offense is those guys who catch the ball? wide receivers, I believe they are called? So one fewer running back and no tight ends presents an incessant passing attack that is more explosive than a two-back, run-first scheme.

Close ?

cs
01-22-2008, 09:58 AM
Not bad young Jedi.

You hit some key points there. No Tight ends is one. Not only does it cut into some key underneath routes, but more importantly takes away some of the protection of the quarterback. A tight end is a duel role position. Not only do they catch passing but they also provide blocking. A tight end will put a block on the defenseive end coming around the outside and than can release for that short pass underneath. This does two things, it slows down the DE and gives the QB an dump pass.

Another thing with the Run & Shoot is the wide recievers have a little more lattitude in their pass routes. In other words they adjust their route to what the defense shows.

A run and shoot offense is indeed a quick strike offense. They either score quick or turn the ball over quick. What this does is keep their defense on the field longer. Defenseive lines work harder during a game than offensive lines. By the end of the game the defensive line is tireder (as a general rule) and thus your traditional running attack is more apt to rip off longer runs and thus control the tempo of the game.

Also in the NFL your defenses are faster than in a typical college team. Thus your recievers have to get open quicker or else your QB will get hit harder and more often (lack of TE to provide key blocking).

A great example of a Run & Shoot offense compared to a more traditional run oriented offense was the Georgia Hawaii game. Hawaii couldn't protect the QB and Georgia was rushing 4 and coming around the corners where a Tight End should have been and knocking the daylights out of the QB.

I know this is more than you wanted to know, but there it is anyway and probably some other will come along and tell me where I'm wrong in my analyizes of the Run & Shoot. :)

Chad

ishmael
01-22-2008, 12:12 PM
Just a fun sidenote, Lou Groza lived right around the corner and I went to school with his kids. Nice guy, no airs, very simple but nice middle class home in a Cleveland suburb. I'm obviously no football historian, but apparently he played well into middle age, going from the line to kicking. He was a very reliable field goal guy inside 35 yards, back when they kicked the ball with the toe. His moniker was Lou "the toe" Groza.

I haven't followed the sport in years, and was never a big fan. I do remember both Jim Brown and Leroy Kelly playing in the Browns backfield for a couple of years. Boy, it was fun to watch them run.

I played a bit as a young kid, but never put on the pads or the cleats.

Football heroes!

Someone will be able to find one of the great sports pictures of all time. Y.A. Tittle at the end of his career, on his knees, his helmet off, bleeding from the head, a very defeated look on his face.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 12:16 PM
http://blogs.abqtrib.com/albq/parker/tittle.jpg

cs
01-22-2008, 12:17 PM
Just another side note #22 on the list, Reggie White, went to school here in Chattanooga. I was at his high school, Howard, the other week for a basketball game. They had some of Reggie's high school jerseys on the wall.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 12:24 PM
FWIW I drank with #4. Lawrence Taylor and saw him snort coke in the bathroom at a local bar. He was a bit of an obnoxious ass at the time and I knew nothing about football.

ishmael
01-22-2008, 12:47 PM
So, none of you internet mavens can come up with the Tittle photograph? I'd look for it, but I'm behind the curve on posting pics. It really is a fantastic photograph. A lion in winter. He's just had his clock cleaned and is looking at the ground, with blood streaming from his balding head.

The violence on the field! It serves as surrogate violence to the violence in combat. Or, as some would have us turn away, does it serve as a training ground for violence in warfare? Interesting human issues often revolve in our public sport.

I've found it way too hyped of late. If I want fanfare I'll watch a music video. Count on it, not ever.

But, from a different era, when these guys weren't megastars, the pic of Y.A. Tittle speaks to real gladiators, on this constructed field of battle--not there to make bones in the media, but to play that game.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 12:50 PM
So, none of you internet mavens can come up with the Tittle photograph?

Dude look up :rolleyes:
I posted it 4 sec after you requested it. ;)

ishmael
01-22-2008, 12:56 PM
It wasn't there till now. Thanks, Joe. And, to correct a bit precious memory of mine, he isn't looking at the ground, he's looking into some middle distance. Not unlike shell-shocked soldiers I've seen pics of.

Great pic, thanks again.

cs
01-22-2008, 12:58 PM
Yeah I was thinking that was the photo that you asked for.

So Joe, did you learn anything about the Run & Shoot? FWIW the last team to have any sucess with that offense in the pros was the Houston Oilers with Warren Moon as the QB. In the 1992 (Jan 93) playoffs Houston took a big early lead over the (32 points) over the Buffaloe Bills only to lose in overtime.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 01:02 PM
Great pic agreed.

Some great sports imagrey like

A young Cassius Clay standing over a knocked out Sonny Liston

Or

Lou Gehrig Farewell Retirement Speech at Yankee Stadium

ishmael
01-22-2008, 01:17 PM
It's one of my favorite sport pics. Don't know the game, or the photographer, but that pic sticks.

Sport historians will remind me the details, but Tittle was one of the greats who didn't make the list. What that pic says to me is, "Lord in heaven I'm gettin' too old for this shyte." What was he, thirty eight? He looks winded, and thinking about retiring if thinking about much of anything, but mostly just kinda shocked by what just happened.

Interestingly there are no other players on the field, almost as though the fallen lion needs some space to meditate. Great moment captured on film.

And I agree, Joe, Clay standing over Liston with that fierceness is another great one.

Joe (SoCal)
01-22-2008, 01:19 PM
And I agree, Joe, Clay standing over Liston with that fierceness is another great one.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/gfx/ali-liston372.jpg

ishmael
01-23-2008, 09:03 AM
A young Clay/Ali! That was the last time I paid any attention to boxing. They'd actually televise a fight live occasionally on broadcast toob. He was so elegant. And look at his fitness, the muscles in that just heavy enough arm.

Wasn't Liston sprung from prison for that fight, or recently out? Not up to a young Clay. Look at that face!

One of the greats, and apparently, for all his public bluster when younger, a very nice man.

Paul Pless
01-17-2010, 03:42 PM
bump :D