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dadadata
09-15-2000, 11:47 AM
I got curious so I went to look the site over.

There is a "Customer Survey" at
http://www.swiftoceanics.com/survey.htm

Here's what I said to them:

<<
Guys, I'm a regular fella who sails small sailboats and paddles canoes and kayaks on the Chesapeake.

We have enough cig-boats and noisy PWCs now. We'd like a break.

A 90 mph PWC is socially irresponsible. May I come by your house and rev up chainsaws all day? I'd be happy to. And that's just the "noise-annoyance" issue. I'm afraid I have a right to quiet, which means an absence of your products.

Get good lawyers for when the lawsuits start; would be immediately after the first accident or paralyzed driver from a flip.

Would make an excellent vehjicle for Tamil suicide bomber terrorists; many ordered in Asia?

This "boat" is in fact illegal in certain national parks and state waters -- check out Marin County, California or the Boundary Waters area, or the San Juan Islands in Washington; so your advertising claim is false and misleading.

Tell Gordon Cooper, (from me, as a guy who stayed home in 1st grade to watch space shots and dreamed of attending the USAF Academy), that I could not be more disappointed in his choice of associates.
>>

I even passed along my name & post office box; waiting on the personal letter from Gordo, aka "The Wrong Stuff", Cooper.

ishmael
09-15-2000, 11:54 AM
Sick 'em dada,

Only problem I see is these suckers have a four cycle engine. Doubtless a decision based on complex marketing analyses, part of which anticipated the outrage of the sane amongst us. Ecologically 'responsible' makes a great sound bite.

Let us know if Gordo writes. Best, Ishmael

Ed Harrow
09-15-2000, 12:38 PM
Presumably you'll get the same response as I got. Silence (Which is what we're asking for, isn't it?). Your note was far more eloquent than mine, so maybe...

redjim777
09-15-2000, 12:50 PM
I added my sentiments. Thanks for the heads-up.

Jim

ishmael
09-15-2000, 01:55 PM
Felt good didn't it. Wonder how their mail is runnin'?

Dave R
09-15-2000, 02:25 PM
Added mine too. Maybe if they get enough posts llike ours they'll get the idea. Reminded me of a bit of an old Arlo Guthrie song: "And if three people do it, three, can you imagine three people walking in, singing a bar of
Alice's Restaurant and walking out? They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine 50 people a day, i say 50 people a day walking into the
shrink, singing a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out? And friends, they may think it's a movement..."
Well, maybe not

[This message has been edited by Dave R (edited 09-15-2000).]

Ken Hall
09-15-2000, 03:39 PM
Here's my submission:

What earthly purpose is served by a 90-mph PWC? Your decision to use a 4-stroke engine is perhaps commendable, but the pointed aluminum forebody will be a positive menace to all in the vicinity in the hands of the bear-sodden wake-jumping yahoos we most often observe piloting PWCs in our neck of the woods.

I'm not the litigious type myself, but I urge you to consider the relative "depth of pocket of yourselves compared to the aforementioned yahoos, then spend a weekend on the beach listening to the current generation of PWC jocks in action and then meditate upon the phrase "joint and several liability." There are people who depend on Swift Oceanics for a livelihood who undoubtedly would be grievously harmed by a large judgment. If you've got the skills to design and develop something as admittedly technologically interesting as that PWC, you could probably design something a little more generally useful/responsible, or at least lose the cowcatcher.

Best regards.

Bryan Robinson
09-15-2000, 03:57 PM
I sent them a note, too. I asked them what they are doing about educating these guys that buy the PWCs and getting them to use these things responsibly.

Ian McColgin
09-15-2000, 04:03 PM
If they'd power them with gas turbines, then when the blades spin off it would cancel their reporductive ability even before they bled to death or died of rapid deceleration syndrom as they stuff a wave, thereby winning the forst Darwin Society Award of the century.

BrianCunningham
09-15-2000, 05:15 PM
Check out the guestbook as well
http://www.swiftoceanics.com/guestbook.htm
this is what one guy had to say.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
There are some major problems with your product that I see. Firstly, how do you turn that type of hull at speed? Do you have to slow down to 30 to turn? Second, aluminum? I'm sure you did that for weight factors but what happens if you bang it up, do you have to have the whole hull replaced? Glass and SMC are easier to repair. Third, your three seater looks like some kind of feeding herd animal. Drop that motor into a better hull and you might have a winner. You better have good lawyers with your current hull on that X-2000...I see some grizzly deaths happening when some guy tries to turn at 80 mph and digs the nose in. Good luck. Jim
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What the deigners forgot to steal from the "real" hydroplanes is the turning plate

http://www.swiftoceanics.com/images/XA_small1.jpg
sort of a leeboard see below
http://www.hydros.org/photos/00seattle/P8060033hyd.jpg

The pros also have enclosed cockpits with onboard air systems in case they flip.
Along with a medical staff standing bye.

On the plus side that 4cycle engine will produce less emissions and be quieter. Thought I'm sure they did it for performance, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

Gary Bergman
09-15-2000, 05:27 PM
--walk right in there's a door at the back, just a half a mile from the railroad track....

ishmael
09-15-2000, 05:36 PM
Are those clouds computer generated?

BrianCunningham
09-15-2000, 09:13 PM
(click and take a look) (http://thunderfest.com/photogal/96/videos/bud1.avi)

[This message has been edited by BrianCunningham (edited 09-15-2000).]

Bayboat
09-15-2000, 11:16 PM
Brian: Now that is really SCARY!! It looks like a piece of space junk landing at a very oblique angle.

ishmael
09-15-2000, 11:57 PM
Read through some of the entries at the guest book Brian posted. Get a flavor of what we're up against. Demonic clowns with horsepower.

garland reese
09-16-2000, 01:16 AM
..........and while you're there, don't forget to leave your comments on the guest book. From the looks of those comments, if those things get into the hands of some of the site's guests..............?????

BrianCunningham
09-16-2000, 03:59 PM
That video was taken at the judges stand for a designated race.

What the Stealth PWC promises is the same thing only unsupervised, out of nowhere, and done by a craft that requires no license

You've got to rember you foe
These folks have gasoline running in thier vains.

I run into the same problem whenever I take the 'vette out. Some clown always wants to street race me. I point to my "Save it for the track" decal and they get the message.

Whats needs to be done is to set aside designated area where they can go "play"

of course these same morons would be bow up in the NO WAKE area of a marina.

.... perhaps its time to require that all watercraft require a license to operate.

[This message has been edited by BrianCunningham (edited 09-16-2000).]

rickprose
09-16-2000, 05:36 PM
And who would the licensing authority be, Brian? And what if, for reasons of economics or whatever, they decided that some types of watercraft were simpler and, therefore, the licensing requirements would be made commensurately harder for more 'complicated' watercraft. There sure are a lot more things I need to know to sail my thirty-footer than these gearheads need to know to drive a whizzer. Would this, then, steer people away from sail boats and toward jetskis because the test was easier? If you think I'm simply being paranoid (which I am, slightly, because the opposite of paranoia is complacency) ruminate on the fact that the test to get a license to drive an 18 wheeler is much more difficult than the test for an auto license, which generally means that truckers are better drivers than the rest of us, and doesn't stop auto drivers from driving drunk, stupid and blind and killing a whole lot of people.

ishmael
09-16-2000, 07:08 PM
What is to be done? I don't want to pass a test to row my skiff or sail it 'round the harbor. It is so free, to set a sail and go, and I hate, I mean HATE, the notion of universal licensing.

I don't know why exactly, 'cept I know how screwy legislation gets once embraced by law makers.

I think in a wise culture there would be laws restricting the use of HP/displacement ratios above a certain number to certain areas, and leave the rest of us alone. Best, Ishmael

thechemist
09-16-2000, 07:51 PM
If you give the authorities the power to license you, without the legislature passing a law requiring such licensing, it is one more step down the slippery slope of the loss of all your civil liberties to those authorities who will generate their own "guidelines" and enforce them as if they were law. England has gone 'most all the way....there was an article about this referenced in another thread....I downloaded it. Interesting reading.

Find a different solution than licensing. For example, write your elected representatives and convince them to put a law on the ballot limiting the sale of PWC to those incapable of exceeding 40 knots [or whatever]. Since such elected representatives may not see you-all as a public of significance when they come up for election, make it an issue that has far wider appeal, such that the majority of the voting public will vote for your issue.

Remember the lesson of Rose Bird, formerly of the California supreme court. She made a decusion unpopular with real estate interests. They organized a campaign to have her removed from the bench, but this issue was not anything the voters cared about. They noticed she had decided about sixty-four to one or maybe none in favor of commuting death sentences. They therefore attacked her on the grounds that she was soft on crime, based on that record. The public saw that as responsible for an unacceptably high crime level, regardless of its truth, and she and two other justices were removed by a healthy margin of the voters.

That customer survey at swiftoceanics is excellent. Very entertaining reading.

ishmael
09-16-2000, 11:56 PM
"Accept loss forever." Jack Kerouac, rules for modern writing, but I think it applies to anyone trying to make sense of this turgid world.

Kermit
09-17-2000, 02:34 PM
Sigh. It's still legal to drive, say, a 1914 Ford T on the public ways, but friends who do so get interesting gestures and dangerous behavior directed their way by some drivers of faster vehicles. A friend has such a "T" and a 1909 White Tourer; other friends have a wide variety of "classics," up to and including an '92 FerrariTestosteroneRosa, but they all seem to understand responsible and polite driving.

Are slower watercraft, regardless of method of propulsion, in danger of being treated the same way by a majority of boaters?

I was in Tacoma yesterday to sing at the Waterfront Festival, and on the way back up I-5, just north of Seattle, cruising at 65 in the CarPool lane, we got passed by a crotchrocket that is the equivalent of this PWC. The jackass aboard this thing twisted the throttle off, stood it on the back wheel, and rode it as a unicycle at about 90 or so through minivans full of Sunday families. We watched him repeat this act four more times before we lost sight of him in the traffic.

The sad part of this tale is that if he'd crashed the thing, he'd have taken someone with him. Now just whose civil liberties were in danger here?

thechemist
09-17-2000, 03:01 PM
Well, I got some good news and some bad news.....and they are exactly the same. You, too, have the freedom to do exactly that.

You could have performed a Citizen's Arrest, after noticing him coming up in your rear-view mirror and opening your door....

It is not a perfect system. Consider the alternatives. There are many other countries on the planet with different systems....examples of how those may play out. Some are more or less desirable, and some are more or less capable of change, adaptable to an evolving civilisation. Pick any one.

Phil Young
09-18-2000, 12:06 AM
Oh-oh, this is looking like a gun thread.

BrianCunningham
09-18-2000, 11:13 PM
Well if you don't want to do it the legal way what would you propose?

But wouldn't you then be just as bad as the morons on the PWC's?

The guys on the PWC's are just out for fun, granted at others expense. If you start pointing "canons" or any other kind of weapons at people, then your the vigilante.

Hey if someone breaks into your place at night I'm the first one to say "blow his head off", and the courts back that up.

But if you like the guy in Texas who removed someone's head by stringing a steel line accross his marina well ... I hope you kids are old enough to take care of themselves because they won't have you!!

ishmael
09-19-2000, 08:59 AM
Brian,

No one here was suggesting vigilantism (at least I don't think they were.) The nasty rhetoric was just a way of letting off steam over a very frustrating situation. What is in question is what sort of action/legislation is needed to deal with this nusiance/menace?

ishmael
09-19-2000, 08:59 AM
Brian,

No one here was suggesting vigilantism (at least I don't think they were.) The nasty rhetoric was just a way of letting off steam over a very frustrating situation. What is in question is what sort of action/legislation is needed to deal with this nusiance/menace?

Michael
09-19-2000, 10:59 AM
Enforce nuisance and noise regulations. If a PWC endangers someone, they should be punished. If not, let em be. We have no greater right to the water than they do.

htom
09-19-2000, 11:14 AM
Legislation installs neither caution nor wisdom in idiots.

redjim777
09-19-2000, 11:44 AM
Brian, I spend a lot of time driving in Houston. To obtain a license you must pass a driver's test that includes theory and practical application. Many people take a driver's ed course to facilitate passing this exam. If you consider the time and expense of obtaining a license, the further cost in tax dollars to have police enforce the laws - that we learned prior to passing the exam, you cannot reasonably assume that licensing some or all boaters would change their behavior. It would be just another way for gov't to reach into our pockets. How many times have you had to swerve to avoid the person whose phone conversation/music/lunch/dinner/date/kids/etc. is certainly more important than checking to make sure: the lane is open - the light is green - traffic is not coming to a stop ahead. I experience daily the irresponsiblility of drivers with licenses. People take more time to decide what they drive rather than how they drive it.

With respect from my soap box,

Jim