Americans 'embarrassed' by Bush

[TimH]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/28/elec04.prez.clark.bush/index.html

[ishmael]

I feel out of time with this political season. My grandfather, with whom I identify most strongly, thought Roosevelt was tantamount to the Anti-Christ, but when the country went to war, and his son-in-law went to fight it, he set his feelings for the man aside; realized the greater good demanded it. He still felt Roosevelt was a bad man, but was able to stand behind him as his President in a time of war.

Perhaps because this war is more subtle such patriotism is lost. Or perhaps there's a lot of water that's flowed since then.

The anniversary of John Kennedy's assassination passed recently, un-noted here, but I mark that as the watershed in our feeling for country. It, the whitewash, and the assassinations that followed, and the Vietnam War, and all the polemics these events engengered created an entire generation that has no notion similar to my grandfather's patriotism. His patriotism is dead for an entire generation of people about my age and younger, unless they've thought matters through with intimate reflection. It's horribly unfortunate.

Today's politicians, always alert to trends, briefed by their advisors every minute on the pulse of the nation, are carrion on the corpse.

[stan v]

Ish, JFK was shot in Oct/Nov? I'm drawing a blank.

I get tired of the simple approach of the left, that if we just leave despots and murderers alone, they will leave us alone and in fact invite us to sample the good life, which of course can be found anywhere but in America.

[ 09-28-2003, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: stan v ]

[ishmael]

You're right it was November 22. I don't know what made me think it was earlier and use that as a springboard, but I'll leave it, my ideas stand. November 22, 2002 wasn't that long ago. smile.gif

[stan v]

You had me wondering if I'd forgotten already! ;)

[LeeG]

ish , could you expound more on the sublety and passed waters?

[stan v]

Marcy, Pepto Bismol is good for passing water.

[LeeG]

I'm not embarassed by GW. He's working hard. He's part of a programs of ideals and good values. He's not running our foreign policy but that's why he's got Rumsfield and gang. Ish, when did you feel "in time"?

[LeeG]

not subtle stan

[ishmael]

Lee,

Why don't you expound on the passed waters, what did they mean for you?

I came of age in a divided country. When I was thirteen my American History class had a debate on the Vietnam war, and it was rancorous. I think this water has much to do with what is happening now, but what do you think?

[stan v]

Ish, I think you're about to have another debate with a 7th grader.

[LeeG]

You are in an awkward position posting on controversial topics then falling back to a "can't we just get along and follow our leader?" posture. If you walk into this arena armed with ideas then you can't throw up your hands pleading folks "just get along".
I didn't use the term so I'm not clear of your application of "passed waters". When I was 18 I rationalized and defended the status quo when older friends called Nixon a criminal,,or that we weren't really bombing in Cambodia. I would rationalize up an down the map so as to not blindly criticize the leaders. Simply because I was ignorant and knew it. I did participate in a fundraising efforts for Nixon for social reasons.
So for me "passed waters" is a time when I knew less and screwed more while the world of grown-ups appeared to be crumbling.

[stan v]

I find the left in an awkward position, but not unfamiliar. Grabbing their ankles.

Yep, Vietnam was catastrophic for the left. 9/11 isn't. Go figure.

[ 09-28-2003, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: stan v ]

[LeeG]

Originally posted by stan v:
Ish, I think you're about to have another debate with a 7th grader.If the left is a passive partner in buggery who's the active partner? Got's to tell you stano that in 7th grade wit and sarcasm were used without a sense of consequences or empathy. It was cruel and fun and the guys that were good at it derived some social status by their ability to cut others down to size. You've got some unresolved 'issues'.

[stan v]

7th graders I knew now view the world as it is, not as they would like it to be. Been a bunch of reality checks since 7th grade. 9/11 most recently (in case you've forgotten)

[LeeG]

whatever you do use protection.

[ishmael]

Steady there. I don't think talking this way is furthering anything.

So Lee, you were having more sex while the adults were having a nervous breakdown in 1970? I can see that, but I don't see how it addresses my point. Sometimes we have to make up, reinvent, being an adult out of other material. Going back a generation can help.

[LeeG]

Jack what is your point?

"re-inventing" is a term I see with regards to the wheel or a marketing term,otherwise it's a word game. You're your mothers and fathers blood. What's to re-invent?

[ishmael]

Lee,

What did your grandparents, if you knew them, know?

[Mrleft8]

I'm not embarassed by Bush. If I was Barbara, or GHW Bush I'd be embarassed, But I had nothing to do with either his birth, or his appointment to the presidency, So I have nothing to be embarassed about in this instance. I am dissapointed that he is our commander and thief, but, that will end soon....I hope.

[seafox61]

ish
funny how your father who through FDR was the anti christ could put it aside because of the war. while( for example) I can see working along side stalin to defeat one evil americas leaders should have never for one second forgot that comunism was as great an evil as national socialism.
FDR is the man sho has done more to damage this nation than any other. he laid the foundation for the huge interventionest goverment we now have that is the cause of or mart of every problem in this land or ours, simply because the goverment is so huge. personally I can not think of anything to praise FDR for any other man would and could have done as much to win the war. FDR with his alphabet soup of goverment programs did nothing to end the depression in fact unemployment reached its worst point IN 1938!!! it was in fact world war two that ended the depression. and we won the war because of the huge industrial output and the heavy use of women so that we could bring more force to the fight than did the japaneese and the germans wh untill very late failed to make use of half of their people. in fact if the germans had not wasted so much human power resources trying to kill off the jes its likely they would have won.
fact is when you look at americas output of wepons it wasn't till 44 that the usa rea;y hit its stride. for examply the B29 actually came too late for use in germany so it got sent to fight japan by default. further the sherman tank was outclassed and almost a death trap aginst the 5th generation of german tanks but its replacement was defered because the goverment felt it better to have two outclassed tanks delivered to europe than the one replacement that was equel or better than the panther tiger and king tiger tanks but took up more room on the ship. for this we have to "thank "FDR
jeffery

[Meerkat]

Heavy use of women? Man, that brings up some provocative images! :eek:

[Meerkat]

Peak unemployment was 25% in 1935. It declined to 15% and then rose again to 20% in 1938.



Myth: The U.S. entry into World War II actually ended the Great Depression in this country.

Fact: As Robert Higgs so aptly noted, World War II did not end the economic hardships Americans faced. Although U.S. unemployment rates fell to record low levels during the war, rationing and shortages dominated economic life. People had money in their pockets, but few places to spend it, since virtually all investment was for war goods.

Furthermore, much of the drop in the nation’s unemployment rate was due to the fact that millions of American men were conscripted into the armed forces. To put it mildly, while people had jobs and paychecks, they still were poor. War might have provided jobs, but it did not bring prosperity.