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cs
09-27-2004, 09:29 AM
Finally going to make the upgrade at home. I've got Bellsouth phone service and internet already. The fast Access DSL will only cost me $24.95 a month (after 6 months of $17.95 promo pricing). Download speeds of 256 and upload of 128.

Does this sound about right?

Chad

Concordia..41
09-27-2004, 07:42 PM
Sounds right for DSL, but check your TV cable company. Someone here can correct me, but they say broadband is even faster than DSL (broadband at home/DSL at the office and I can't tell the difference).

Anyway, I caught a cable company promotion with a boatload of movie channels I never watch + broadband + digital cable for $39 more than I was paying for basic cable.

How's the new place?

- M

cs
09-28-2004, 06:04 AM
It's coming along. Don't know if I will ever get settled.

I went with the DSL because of the price. The price of cable is still to high. This is the first high speed I've seen at this price.

Chad

High C
09-28-2004, 07:59 AM
Chad, that's a reduced speed version of DSL, thus the low price. Most DSL is about 6 times the speed of that. But it's still way faster than dialup, a good deal, I'd say. Do it...

km gresham
09-28-2004, 08:07 AM
We have dial up. :rolleyes: No cable tv - satellite. Keep thinking about going to something faster, but its at the bottom of the priority list. smile.gif

cs
09-28-2004, 08:09 AM
You are right. They advertise this as the Fast Access Lite and it is about half the speed of regular DSL but about 4 times as fast as dial up.

The price is right so we will try it.

Chad

ahp
09-28-2004, 08:27 AM
We changed to DSL with our local phone company. The local cable company stonewalled us when we moved to the next street. Hint: they are in Chaper 11.

We don't notice much difference in speed between DSL and cable. For television we went satellite. The combined cost of satellite and DSL is about what we were paying for cable.

Joe (SoCal)
09-28-2004, 08:52 AM
Cable at home DSL in the office Cable is 2X faster and I got a similar package deal as Margo. I just sold a house and the new buyer's went with cable all the way including the new cable phone connection. The whole shooting match for like $50 per mo.

J_Boat
09-28-2004, 12:53 PM
I have the next level up from DSL lite from Bellsouth. I do get faster speeds than what you are seeing but not a lot faster. I think even the slower DSL speeds are sufficient since the system is only as fast as it's slowest part and many web sites will not deliver data as fast as you can suck it down. I've seriously considered dropping back to DSL lite. (Only problem is I'll have to give up my static IP address.)

Also, cable access works within pools. Everyone in your neighborhood or locale will be in a pool of IP addresses and the bandwidth for that pool is divided between the number online. As long as just a few people in your pool are online, you'll see speeds faster than DSL. However, during peak usage periods, when many in your pool are online, your bandwidth is being divided amongst all online and you'll see some slowing.

Cable or DSL .... six of one.... half dozen of...

cs
09-28-2004, 01:08 PM
Can DSL be sit up on a wireless network? When I asked Bellsouth about this they said that there would be a $10 a month charge. Why can't you sit it up on a desktop and push it out to other stations without paying the upcharge?

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
09-28-2004, 01:16 PM
Chad ONE major reason I did not go with DSL is because basic DSL does NOT have a static IP address it changes every time you try to connect. It is not a true DSL but ADSL or Aysymectrical DSL this was a few years ago and they may have changed the system but my wireless set up would not permit ASDL because the IP changed with use. You had to upgrade to DSL business plan with a static IP address.

Bruce Hooke
09-28-2004, 01:17 PM
I had a cable modem when my employer was paying for it (I worked from a home office). When I signed up for it DSL was not available in my neighborhood. When I became self-employed earlier this year I was not real keen on paying $45/month for a cable modem (it would have been a lot less if I already had cable TV but I have no interest in cable TV), so since DSL had become available in my neighborhood in the interim I switched to it (through AT&T), and signed up for just the basic, lowest cost, DSL service. The DSL connection is a bit slower than cable was, but not enough to be that noticeable. As J_Boat said, even with DSL service it's not uncommon that the slowest link is somewhere else in the system.

It did take me a bit of work to get the DSL service running properly. If you have an home alarm system you can run into conflicts between the two systems -- I did and after finding that the tech support for my DSL service was pretty clueless about how to solve the problem and wanted to charge my a couple hunderd dollars to have a tech come out and do some fancy rewiring I went on line and found a simple solution. I also found that my surge protection system, which includes a pass-through for a phone line connected to the computer, caused major problems with the DSL line.

Bruce Hooke
09-28-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
Chad ONE major reason I did not go with DSL is because basic DSL does NOT have a static IP address it changes every time you try to connect. It is not a true DSL but ADSL or Aysymectrical DSL this was a few years ago and they may have changed the system but my wireless set up would not permit ASDL because the IP changed with use. You had to upgrade to DSL business plan with a static IP address.What are the advantages of having a static IP address?

High C
09-28-2004, 03:31 PM
Chad, it's easy to set up a small network with DSL, and don't pay them an extra cent for it! Do it yourself. The DSL modem plugs into the WAN (wide area network) port of a router, then your computers plug into the router with CAT 5 wires from their Ethernet cards.

brad9798
09-28-2004, 03:57 PM
What High C said ... just run router into your modem ... then hook up as many things as you like!!!

You can even do it with a wireless router ... for laptops and such.

We have every room in the house with a cat5 'plug.' Works like a charm ...

cs
09-29-2004, 09:08 PM
Just got this installed and man is it fast. :cool:

With DSL do I need a firewall installed or will virus protection be enough?

Chad

Ross M
09-29-2004, 09:50 PM
"With DSL do I need a firewall installed or will virus protection be enough?"

You will most definitely want a firewall. You now have a "persistent" IP address (if not static). This means the goblins have much more time to happen across your IP address and probe your machine for access points.

Anti-virus, though important, will not stop the goblin from gaining access to (and possibly control of) your machine.

If you have a powerful machine and no networking ambitions, a software firewall might be appropriate.

If your machine is so-so and/or you are considering a home network, consider a router with a firewall built in.

Either case, I believe you should close your DSL connection when idle until you have a firewall installed or someone more knowledgable comes along...

Ross

[ 09-29-2004, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Ross M ]

John C. Gresham
09-29-2004, 11:40 PM
I worked for Bellsouth DSL doing tech support for them.

As such, I know a LITTLE about it...not much.

The speeds you're talking about are right. Make sure they hook you up with a Westell Wirespeed modem. It's the best on the market right now, and for most new customers, they hook you up with it for free.

As far as the Cable thing, don't fall for it. I don't work for Bellsouth anymore, so I have no loyalty, but I do know that the more people in your area who are on a cable internet service, the lower your speed goes because you all share the service...on the other hand with DSL, you get a devoted line to you, so your speed never fluctuates.

"Can DSL be sit up on a wireless network? When I asked Bellsouth about this they said that there would be a $10 a month charge."

Yes, it can. I live at a marina that uses Bellsouth DSL, and I have it set up with a Linksys Wireles G (WAP54G) router to span the entirety of the marina. If you'd like, e-mail me and I'll hook you up with the directions of how to do so. If you get Bellsouth to do it, they'll charge you the extra ten bucks and give you a 2-Speed Wireless Modem/Router.

Bellsouth also offers a Static IP, but a Dynamic IP (in my opinion) is much better.

"You will most definitely want a firewall. You now have a "persistent" IP address (if not static). This means the goblins have much more time to happen across your IP address and probe your machine for access points."

NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! If you have the Westell Modem, you DO NOT WANT A FIREWALL! The Westell Modem is equipped with it's own Firmware which includes a built-in firewall. If you run another one, they'll cause conflicts with one another and your service will be ALL wonky.

If you have any more questions, I'll be happy to answer them. Just e-mail me at JohnCGresham@awesomereport.com

Nicholas Carey
09-30-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Bruce Hooke:
What are the advantages of having a static IP address?Basically, if you want tp run your own server (mail, DSN, web, etc.) you'll need a static IP so people can find you. If you want to let people FTP stuff to/from you, you'll need a static IP so they can find you — unless you want to give them you IP address every time they want to connect to your boxen.

Nicholas Carey
09-30-2004, 12:55 AM
If you're shopping for DSL, you should check DSL Reports (http://www.dslreports.com (http://www.dslreports.com/) to hunt down your best options for your area. It's also a good place to learn about your various broadband options and their respective upsides and downsides.


Originally posted by John C. Gresham:
I worked for Bellsouth DSL doing tech support for them.

As such, I know a LITTLE about it...not much.

The speeds you're talking about are right. Make sure they hook you up with a Westell Wirespeed modem. It's the best on the market right now, and for most new customers, they hook you up with it for free.The DSL router you get is dependent on you ISP: DSL requires that the hardware on each end of the link be compatible. Your ISP is unlikely to change the boxen they put in the rack at the CO just to please you.


As far as the Cable thing, don't fall for it. I don't work for Bellsouth anymore, so I have no loyalty, but I do know that the more people in your area who are on a cable internet service, the lower your speed goes because you all share the service...on the other hand with DSL, you get a devoted line to you, so your speed never fluctuates.What Mr. Gresham said&hellipwait, am I agreeing with John? :D :D

DSL gives you a fixed amount of bandwidth. If you've got ADSL or another flavor of rate adapative DSL, that bandwidth is dependent on line quality, both between the CO and your network interface and between the network interface and your DSL router.


"Can DSL be sit up on a wireless network? When I asked Bellsouth about this they said that there would be a $10 a month charge."

Yes, it can. I live at a marina that uses Bellsouth DSL, and I have it set up with a Linksys Wireles G (WAP54G) router to span the entirety of the marina. If you'd like, e-mail me and I'll hook you up with the directions of how to do so. If you get Bellsouth to do it, they'll charge you the extra ten bucks and give you a 2-Speed Wireless Modem/Router.And if Bell South is dinging you $10 per month for wireless, it's quite probably illegal. They provide you with service from the CO to your DSL router. What happens beyond that is your business. Whether your IP packets travel from your boxen to the DSL router via 10BaseT (twisted pair), coaxial cable, fibre, 802.11b or 802.11g or even carrier pigeon (cf. A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt). Note the date of publication :D ) is of no concern to your ISP.

If you want to set up a wireless network, it's pretty simple. Get your DSL router set up. You'll need an 802.11b or 802.11g wireless access point (WAP/base station) as well. Connect it to the DSL router via a 10BaseT jumper.

Your boxen requiring wireless access will each need a suitable 802.11b or 802.11g NIC installed.

Don't forget to lock down your WAP unless you intend to run an open wireless network. Bear in mind that this can be something of a security risk.

Since your average home DSL service isn't going to provide you with a router. You'll actually get a bridge or a gateway. The difference?

With a routed connection, your router/DSL modem will only see IP packets addressed to your network. With a non-routed connection, your DSL modem will see every packet that comes down the pike (and it will pass them on). This has (1) security implications, and (2) consumes bandwidth.

With that in mind, the ideal setup (for me, anyway) would install a hardware router/firewall between the DSL modem and your WAP or other boxen on your network, with your router configured to route only packets addressed to boxen on your network. This comes with a cost though: it consumes another IP address (which your ISP may well charge you for.)

The other thing you want to consider is whether or not you want to set your network up with NAT (Network Address Translation). This essentially means that each box on your network will have a non-routable, private IP address (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1918.txt), which will will fall into one of these ranges:

10.0.0.0–10.255.255.255: 10/8 prefix
172.16.0.0–172.31.255.255: 172.16/12
192.168.0.0–192.168.255.255: 192.168/16 prefix

RFC 1918 reserves these address ranges as private, non-routable addresses, meaning that they're not visable to the world. They're only visible within your private network: your router will present yoru network to the Internet as a single IP address, regardless of how complex your private network actually is. Whether this is a Good Thing or not is left is up to the user.


NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! If you have the Westell Modem, you DO NOT WANT A FIREWALL! The Westell Modem is equipped with it's own Firmware which includes a built-in firewall. If you run another one, they'll cause conflicts with one another and your service will be ALL wonky.If your ISP provides you with a router with a preconfigured firewall, you might want to consinder a different ISP, unless you get control of the firewall configuration. Most likely your ISP is providing you with a "free" firewall so they can restrict what you are allowed to do on the net.

For instance, if you get broadband from AOL (the slum on the Information Superhighway), you'll find that you're unable to establish a VPN (virtual private network, a type of secure connection over the public 'net) between, say, your home 'puter and your office network. And AOL won't let you reconfigure your firewall to suit your needs and their firewall configuration has closed the port used for VPN traffic. Some might consider this to be a defect: AOL considers it a feature.

John C. Gresham
09-30-2004, 01:01 AM
"The DSL router you get is dependent on you ISP: DSL requires that the hardware on each end of the link be compatible. Your ISP is unlikely to change the boxen they put in the rack at the CO just to please you."

I know Bellsouth. I worked for Bellsouth. I know what I said is right. Bellsouth provides an Alcatel Speed Touch Home sometimes, but for new customers they hook 'em up with a Westell Wirespeed.

"And if Bell South is dinging you $10 per month for wireless, it's quite probably illegal."

Once again wrong. If you call the Bellsouth Tech Support, they'll give you the instructions to do it yourself. You'll have to talk to a Tier 2 technician, but it's in the knowledge base that they use called "Primus."

I'll once again point out that I worked there, I would know. The Linksys WAP54G router is what I use, and honestly, it's the best.

"If your ISP provides you with a router with a preconfigured firewall, you might want to consinder a different ISP, unless you get control of the firewall configuration. Most likely your ISP is providing you with a "free" firewall so they can restrict what you are allowed to do on the net."

You can disable the Westell firewall. Simply surf into the firmware at http://192.168.1.1 and disable it. In fact, if you get the Linksys router and a Westell modem, you'll HAVE to set the modem into bridged mode and override the firewall, so the firmware in the Westell and the Firmware firewall in the Linksys don't cause conflicts with each other.

It's not a good idea to argue with me on this, I'll one more time point out that I WORKED FOR BELLSOUTH FASTACCESS DSL, I know these things. lol

[ 09-30-2004, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: John C. Gresham ]

cs
09-30-2004, 06:06 AM
Thanks for the input guys. I've got the Westell Wirespeed, that is what they sent me. John, if you say it has a firewall built in, I trust you.

I'm not ready yet for a wireless network. The wife is talking about buying a laptop so she can sit anywhere in the house and do her stuff. When we get the laptop I will than ask more specific questions about wireless.

Chad

htom
09-30-2004, 01:20 PM
http://grc.com/default.htm , scroll down to "ShieldsUP", click, follow directions, keeping notes on the problems it points out, if any. You'll have to click on each of the FileSharing CommonPorts ServicePort MessengerSpam BrowserHeader to get the five different reports.

There are other such utilities; this one is a bit more "written in English" than some of the others. And Steve Gibson is a fairly trustworthy character so far.

High C
09-30-2004, 01:33 PM
Here's a good reason to choose cable over DSL: VOIP Internet telephone service.

If you have cable, you can cut the cord with the phone company and have your phone service with one of the new companies that offers broadband based VOIP service. It's much cheaper than traditional phone service, and almost as good. It's new technology and there are some teething pains, but it's coming along rapidly. Once they get the kinks worked out, I think it will be better than traditional phone service.

I cut the cord last month after getting Lingo VOIP service, and have been happy with it so far. Unlimited calling in the US, Canada, and Western Europe, plus every phone feature you can imagine, for $20 a month. It saves us about $40 a month. Woohoo.

If you have DSL, you can use VOIP, but you can't cut off your account with the phone company.

And while it is true that a cable connection is shared, it's also true that DSL and any other Internet connection is shared, in many places along the way. The slowdowns are likely to be somewhere other than at your neighbor's house. I've had cable for years, and often get my hands on other machines that have DSL. No notable difference, I'd say. Most slowdowns happen at the servers, not at the client end.

[ 09-30-2004, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: High C ]

John C. Gresham
09-30-2004, 02:07 PM
The most common problem I had was "No Sync" in which the ready light on the Westell was blinking, or wasn't on at all. 90% of the time, it was that they forgot to install a filter on the line.

High C
09-30-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by John C. Gresham:
The most common problem I had was "No Sync" in which the ready light on the Westell was blinking, or wasn't on at all. 90% of the time, it was that they forgot to install a filter on the line.Hey John, have you ever heard of those filters causing a problem for a FAX machine that's plugged into a line that's been run though one?

Bruce Hooke
09-30-2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by High C:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John C. Gresham:
The most common problem I had was "No Sync" in which the ready light on the Westell was blinking, or wasn't on at all. 90% of the time, it was that they forgot to install a filter on the line.Hey John, have you ever heard of those filters causing a problem for a FAX machine that's plugged into a line that's been run though one?</font>[/QUOTE]A non-profit that I provide tech-support to has their fax and their DSL service on the same phone line and it's never been a problem. The fax is plugged into one of the standard DSL filters.

John C. Gresham
09-30-2004, 10:53 PM
I've never heard of that problem before, either...can you tell us a bit more about the problem you're having with the FAX machine?

High C
09-30-2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by John C. Gresham:
I've never heard of that problem before, either...can you tell us a bit more about the problem you're having with the FAX machine?Thanks Bruce, and John. I was just fishing for an explanation why a FAX machine at a friend's house won't answer.

I was told that she had an all-in-one printer/scanner/fax device that wouldn't answer ever since she moved it into a different room. I pictured a machine similar to the Lexmark I have which uses the computer modem to fax. I got over there and this thing turned out to be a real fax machine with its own phone. I know absolutely nothing about real FAX machines, but did notice that its phone line was plugged into one of those DSL filters. Just reaching for an expanation. I told her to study the manual. redface.gif

John C. Gresham
09-30-2004, 11:31 PM
Be sure the FAX machine is plugged into the right side of the filter.