View Full Version : Ridiculous...
02-16-2006, 09:22 PM
Bottom paint for a trailered boat that sees maybe 10 uses a summer runs for $170 a gallon! I might be alone in my grief but wow...
I reread Dave Carnell's article on Latex Paints (http://www.simplicityboats.com/latexcarnel.html) for boats for the 15th or 16th time. It is very interesting. My problem is that it all seems so taboo to me, although I have been painting almost everything with the stuff for many many years, inside and outside. Can it really be that simple? One part, water clean-up, no harsh fumes, not as toxic, cheaper and easier to work with than standard bottom paints...Where's the catch? Am I really ready to commit myself to this paint for below the waterline of a trailer power boat (FG and epoxy)? I've spent all winter looking for bottom paint at a reasonable price. $70 bucks...'Fine.' says I..'wait..is that for a quart?!' and POP, my vision of a clean, well-protected boat bottom disappears. Can someone shed some light on this touchy topic and this hopelessly lost soul...
02-16-2006, 09:42 PM
I see no point in putting expensive bottom paint on a boat that will mostly live on a trailer. It is formulated to protect the hull from marine growth, which shouldn't be a problem for you. The traditional oil paints are great, but coatings chemists have made tremendous strides in the last 20+ years in the quality of latex paints. I haven't seen (or looked for, actually) any data on how exterior latex paints hold up if emersed in water, but obviously it holds up well on coastal houses that sit in windy salt air 24/7.
I've painted my Ness Yawl (which will spend most of its time on a trailer) with Benjamin Moore M22, a tough industrial latex paint that costs a huge $27/gallon. Other folks on this forum have had good experiences with it - I will see how it does on my boat.
I'm sure others will weigh in on this subject - it has been a topic of some spirited argument on the forum in the past. This is my $0.02 and I hope it is useful.
(Chemist and first time boat builder)
02-16-2006, 09:44 PM
If you plan on leaving your boat in the water for any leanth of time , especially salt water, your gonna wish you used an anti fouling bottom piant of one sort or another. Even a few days in brackish water can leave a tough to remove scum.
[ 02-16-2006, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Mike Vogdes ]
02-16-2006, 09:55 PM
I plan on anchoring in salt water for no more than 24 hours...in the worst case scenario (trailer failure or the like). I don't plan on using white...maybe a light blue or even a royal blue in gloss or SG. Isn't one of the greatest aspects of exterior 100% acrylic latex paints its tolerance to being scrubbed and abraded?
02-16-2006, 11:19 PM
I have an old town canoe that I sanded, primed and then painted with latex enamel; it looked beautiful. We took it out for a Sunday outing and it left a Hunter Green scumline all along the shore. Never again… The paint came off in sheets!
02-16-2006, 11:24 PM
When did you paint it? Is this latex paint from 15 years ago? I can't vouch for immersed latex...but one bad experience stings three times as much as one good one. :(
[ 02-17-2006, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: maa. melee ]
02-16-2006, 11:35 PM
Any Navy or Coastie bases around?
Find the surplus store that buys up expired government paint for bargains. The store in Chimicum nearby had a hundred gallons of copper bottom paint on hand last I visited. You may have to learn to like black, and I've never had a problem with expired shelf life paints.
[ 02-17-2006, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]
02-16-2006, 11:38 PM
This was a fairly recent experience. I’m an old boat guy and did the best job I could do, all the prep work etc. - probably a week’s work. I do not remember the brand of paint, but it was not an “off brand”. It was a good job and would have lasted on my house for twenty years.
I ended up sanding it all off (another day!) and going with oil-based enamel
A Very Disappointing experience.
02-16-2006, 11:43 PM
Did you take it out within a week of painting? Latex needs to cure for a week or more.
Sorry, Bob, don't know of any around here. I will make some calls tomorrow.
[ 02-17-2006, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: maa. melee ]
02-16-2006, 11:48 PM
Sorry to double post. Basically I need a paint that will stay shiney, not flake, take mild abrasion, 24 hours of submersion and weeks of drying, direct sunlight,...all the stuff that kills paints. If oil is better at this than latex, which I heard is not true, then so be it; the price for either is pretty close. What I don't get is why copper antifouling paint sticks and why latex doesn't. Does it have to do with the copper? I thought it was just there to act as an ablative, antifouling additive, not as a binder.
02-17-2006, 12:10 AM
I am not against water-based paints, the latex on the canoe cured for a couple of weeks - it could have been a fluke. We have another larger trailer boat that goes on a mooring for a month in the summer and I used a water based anti fouling (not shiny), Neptune I think, it has been fine for five years and I expect it to be good for five more…
I would be wary of “Latex Enamel” though.
02-17-2006, 05:37 AM
Interlux VC Epoxy Bottom paint; $50 for 2 quart kit at WorstMarine. Designed for trailered boats. I used it "just in case" I might leave the boat in the water (salt) for a few days. Produces a very hard finish. Ruell Parker likes Sherwin Williams Tile-Clad II epoxy paints (although he never discusses using below the waterline); might be a cheaper alternative.
02-17-2006, 09:09 AM
Check this out (http://www.californiapaints.com/products/poolpaints/acrltx.asp)
Good for fiberglass and constant immersion.
02-17-2006, 10:48 AM
I have long been of the opinion that fancy antifouling bottom paints lose their effectiveness if exposed to the air for more than a few days. This is the main reason that the final coat of bottom paint is the very last thing done before launching after a lengthy haulout. Is this an old myth or a problem that has since been solved with newer chemistry? If it is true, then bottom paint would seem to be useless on a trailered boat.
On latex paint, it is all I use on my boat above the water. The main disadvantage is its lack of gloss. But durability is not a problem as most boats are repainted far more frequently than most houses anyway.
02-17-2006, 10:56 AM
After surfing the interlux, pettit, kirby, rust-oleum, etc. site for bottom paints, most if not all of the one's they offered require a light sanding or power washing if left hauled for over a few days! I am a huge paint fan and love painting and the new latex paints really surprise me. I was surprised to find the pool paint in latex. As for the comment on dull paints, some pool paints come in semi-gloss but then again, I wouldn't mind a flat bottom color contrasting the shiney topsides. If I went with standard antifouling, then I would have to forget about gloss all together.
02-17-2006, 11:24 AM
buy the cheeepest bottom paint that matches your situation, add 8 ounces of the finest grind, most toxic red pepper you can get, add to paint...no worries, mon....works fer me....
02-17-2006, 12:01 PM
There are essentially two types of bottom paint. The older style contains an anti fouling agent (usually cupric oxide or a relation) held in suspension. The copper leaches out of the paint over time leaving the substrate behind. If you see a boat with a lot of caked on bottom paint, it's this kind (the cheap stuff). The second kind are the ablative paints which hold the anti fouling agent in suspension but dissipate as the agent leaches out. Both types of paint seem to oxidize fairly quickly when exposed to air. Even though the ablatives tout several years effectiveness, if you're hauling the boat once a year you're going to have to at least touch up the bare spots before next springs launch. The main advantage for us northerners in using the ablatives is that we don't get that thick blistering caked on buildup of old bottom paint after five or six years.
It takes several days for marine critters to start to get interested in homesteading on a hull (in most places I've been to), so using a bottom paint on a trailered boat that is going to spend most of it's life out of the water is a waste of money.
02-17-2006, 12:20 PM
Didn't I read in WB that Dennis Conners does not use bottom paint on his restored Q boat? Instead he hires a diver to clean it at least twice a week.
Whatever works. smile.gif
02-17-2006, 03:05 PM
The Interlux VC Epoxy Bottom paint is NOT anti-fouling; it just handles being underwater and add some toughness so going on/off the trailer doesn't beat it up too much. For a day or two or even a week in the saltwater, I wouldn't worry about anti-fouling paint as you can just hose off any stuff that builds up (mostly green slime)when you trailer it. What you don't want is a paint that peels off on the unexpected third or fourth day in the water. Most topside paints state not for use below the waterline.
(edited to limit comment to VC epoxy.)
[ 02-18-2006, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: jlapratt ]
02-17-2006, 05:04 PM
"The epoxy bottom paints are NOT anti-fouling"
You might want to double-check your facts before making statements in capital letters...
West Marine "Bottom Shield" modified epoxy bottom paint - 45.7% cuprous oxide
West Marine "Bottom Pro" modified epoxy bottom paint - 70% cuprous oxide
Interlux "Ultra" modified epoxy bottom paint - 66.5% cuprous oxide
Interlux "Ultra-Kote" modified epoxy bottom paint - 67.5% cuprous oxide
Interlux "Fiberglass Bottomcoat" modified epoxy bottom paint - 42.75% cuprous oxide
Petit "Copper Bronze" modified epoxy bottom paint - 33.2% cuprous oxide
etc. etc. etc.
You think they put all that copper in there just to make the can heavy??? There are certainly some epoxy-based paints designed for use on boat bottoms which aren't anti-fouling paints. Some even contain Teflon and other stuff to make the hull slick. Your "V.C. Performance Epoxy" is one of those and has no antifouling additives or properties at all, but there are even more epoxy bottom paints that really are antifouling paints, as shown above.
Personally, I got very tired of grinding them off after the copper had all leeched-out as the remaining stuff is quite hard and puts up a real battle. Nobody has mentioned the vinyl-types of antifouling paints (Woolsey Vinylast, VC-17, VC Offshore, etc.) They use fast evaporating solvents (usually laquer thinner) and go on thin and slick. You do eventually end-up with a build-up of dead, used-up paint, but it's so thin that it's generally not a problem (unlike the epoxy paints which leave a pretty thick dead layer).
02-17-2006, 06:14 PM
I was just reading about some vinyl and teflon paints. Look promising. I like ablative because it saves me the horrors of sanding. But for a trailer boat, it might oxidize, losing its antifouling properties until sanded, and look woefully dull and blotchy. I will either go for a hard antifouling like the teflon ones or a slow sloughing modified epoxy. Rustoleum makes what seems to be a good quality paint but is almost impossible to find unless special ordered. The 2 colors leave much to be desired. Like the WM bottom shield. A reasonable price.
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=3 00&SBL=1 (http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=300&SBL=1)
[ 02-17-2006, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: maa. melee ]
02-17-2006, 06:35 PM
I like the latex - or acrylate dispersion paints, as they are called nowadays - because of their longevity. I have only one reservation. They are (at least in my experience) difficult to sand when you want to do nice touch-ups.
02-17-2006, 06:36 PM
dont attempt to cheap out on the bottom paint. your time has to be worth someting to you and if you end up having to scrape and sand and repaint the whole bottom because of a paint failure you are going to be kicking yourself in the arse
02-17-2006, 07:56 PM
I used the interlux brightside paint on my Shellback dinghy. It was in the Chesapeake waters for a day or two for overnight sails. It didn't really get scummy and the paint didn't come off. Then it was in alternating freshwater and saltwater as I cruised down the ICW in 2001. When I to Lake Guntersville I made sure to scrub the bottom before it dried. There was a good bit of scum at that point - but the paint stayed on.
02-17-2006, 08:13 PM
I pretty much settled on Hydrocoat after trying most types. It's a water-based ablative, has pretty decent antifouling properties, is easy to apply, pretty durable for trailering, no nasty fumes or solvents and if you want to burnish it after application you can. It does take a few coats initially, but after that it has always been just a quick touch-up coat every season and maybe a second coat on the bow stem. I never noticed it losing any of it's effectiveness after the boat sat out of the water for the off-season. Being ablative, once it's back in the water new stuff gets exposed. Essentially, if you can see paint on the hull, you still have some protection.
Once you sand or strip old, dead, epoxy-based paint off a couple of times, you very quickly begin to believe that it's clearly not the answer. I liked the smooth bronze look and slick feel of VC-17, but with only 17% cuprous oxide, it didn't keep the slime off of our moored boat very well. On a mostly dry-sailed boat it might work fine though, and give you some protection and a very smooth hull without the thick buildup. Quick application and dries almost instantly, but nasty fumes. You could probably build-up 20 years worth of the stuff and still have a thinner layer than one or two seasons of epoxy-based paint produces.
After giving up on the epoxy-based stuff (ours was Unepoxy Plus) and not being happy with the protection offered by VC-17, I was just about to try vinyl from Woolsey on our Trimaran one year. I happened to call the factory with a question (don't remember what it was) and the tech guy suggested trying Hydrocoat, which was new that year. I did, and the ease of application combined with decent performance and the fact that I'd never have to sand the bottom again pretty much sold me. Hydrocoat is now marketed be Petit, instead of Woolsey (don't know why) but it's the same paint. It's clearly going overboard in terms of slime protection on a boat that's not going to sit in the water much, but it will still work and keep working after sitting on dry land for a while.
Anyway, the slick bronze VC-17, the Hydrocoat for anti-fouling performance and ease of application and the non-antifouling stuff with Teflon for a hard, fast bottom, like Jeff's VC Performance Epoxy would probably be the prime possibilities if I was in your position. I'm not sure which one I'd choose. I doubt your boat is going to grow anything you can't remove with a wet sponge during a short stay of just a few days in the water, so you may not need much slime protection. On the other hand, painting a boat bottom with something that not only doesn't mention boats on the can, but which may not even stay stuck there seems like false economy at it's worst. Sanding stuff that didn't work off of a boat bottom is a nasty, awful job and certainly not worth whatever you saved by buying cheap, untried paint.
02-18-2006, 07:07 AM
I intentionally didn't mention the hard shelled racing finishes because of the whole going on and off the trailer thing. I've watched a fellow repairing a Baltoplate bottomed boat. Nice smooth finish but one or two spots tend to fracture and chip just enough to require repair every season. The stuff's pretty hard and getting everything fair is a lot of work. Plus it's expensive stuff.
How about using something like West's epoxy barrier coat tinted to your favorite color? Barrier coats AFAIK are made for constant immersion and are pretty hard.
We've been using Micron CSC for 7 or 8 years now, and it's done a pretty good job (boat's in the water from April to November usually). It seems like most of the folks I know who used ACT don't any more. It doesn't live particularly well out of the water with repeated immersions. We'll do a full coat every two or three years and then touch up during the intervening years.
[ 02-18-2006, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: sv Lorelei ]
02-18-2006, 10:40 AM
"How about using something like West's epoxy barrier coat tinted to your favorite color? Barrier coats AFAIK are made for constant immersion and are pretty hard"
Better tint it black with about 10% graphite powder if you do, because otherwise you have to paint over it. Barrier coat additive isn't dense enough to stop U.V. from destroying the resin. The aluminum flakes also don't hold enamel-style paints very well, so you either need to overcoat the resin/barrier mix with plain resin and then paint it, or use a thicker paint - like bottom paint over it, which pretty much brings you back to square one - needing some type of paint that will hold up reasonably well.
02-18-2006, 11:39 AM
Latex paint is water based but there is a difference between that and 100% acrylic house paint.The difference can be noted when trying to get it off of your hands for instance.Regular latex paint will wash off easily with a slight washing with soap.The 100% acrylic is a hassle to get off of your hands clothes or hair if you happened to be rolling it on overhead without protection.100% acrylic never comes out of clothes but latex will after awhile.I wouldn't use latex on a house unless it was on something like sheetrock or concrete. Acrylic will stay longer than alkyd enamel on exterior wood and will not mildew hardly at all.
What I do like about the oil based paints is that if you do proper prep between repaints is that it is easy to renew.The problems come from just trying to get away with too light a sanding letting the film get too built up. If you keep the coat just enough to hold it's color it will last longer.Thinner is better on any paint system including automotive finishes.
[ 02-18-2006, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: pipefitter ]
02-18-2006, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by maa. melee:
After surfing the interlux, pettit, kirby, rust-oleum, etc. site for bottom paints, most if not all of the one's they offered require a light sanding or power washing if left hauled for over a few days! I am a huge paint fan and love painting and the new latex paints really surprise me. I was surprised to find the pool paint in latex. As for the comment on dull paints, some pool paints come in semi-gloss but then again, I wouldn't mind a flat bottom color contrasting the shiney topsides. If I went with standard antifouling, then I would have to forget about gloss all together.Where did you find the latex pool paint? Is it chlorinated?
Peter Malcolm Jardine
02-18-2006, 01:09 PM
I use Interlux Racing Bronze, a hard finish. It's original to the boat's color plan. It's expensive, about 200 US a gallon, and I use at least two quarts for a touch up, and about 3.5 quarts for a complete job. If you read most antifouling chemistries, they don't work after about a year, and some paints don't work if you drysail them. I completely recoat every two years
It's the cost of owning a boat. ;)
[ 02-18-2006, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]
02-18-2006, 03:10 PM
So I think I've narrowed my needs down to something like WM Bottom Shield, semi-hard modified epoxy. I can't use a barrier coat because I have existing hard antifouling on there now. After sanding and scraping, some will still remain. Aparently, the harder paints are good for trailered or dry sailed boats because the copper won't oxidize (as quickly) when haulled and hold up to abrasion well.
I found the latex pool paint on the California Paints website. The link is above. It is NOT chlorinated rubber. Just good ole acrylic. Racing bronze and teflon/vinyl slick bottom paints are way too pricey. One quick question (are they ever really quick questions?) My boat is on a bunk trailer. The last time it was painted on the bottom, it was painted on the trailer and then careened on a beach to touch up the small areas where the bunks hid. Are there any alternatives to this, short of getting the boat lifted onto jack stands? Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
[ 02-18-2006, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: maa. melee ]
02-18-2006, 03:32 PM
FWIW, I have an 18' Parker that I've kept on a mooring from May through early August for the last 3 seasons. I keep the bottom unpainted and haul every 7 to 10 days, take the boat to the nearest do-it-yourself car wash, top of teh built in gas tank at the low priced (weel, you know what I'm getting at anyway)gas staion (vs. a mariner or humping gerry cans). Later in the saeson. I may have to use a little On Off along the waterline, and I also am careful to keep everything waxed. It works for me and the bottom is very clean. This is what the hull looked like last October.
02-18-2006, 03:44 PM
Very pretty. My dilemma, to whom it may concern, is that the bottom was painted, with little care or effort. I want to restore the beauty and protection to the bottom. If the bottom had it's original gelcoat, that's another story. I want to do it right, so I'm opting for a middle of the line bottom paint for trailered boats. After all, I rescued this boat from certain death and want to keep it maintained.
For whatever it is worth, we owned a 16 ft Hobie Cat. The first year we owned it we kept it on a mooring at a YC on Ipswitch Bay, north of Cape Ann. I didn't want to paint the bottom with anything, just keep the gelcoat mirror slick. So I didn't, but instead every week took it over to a little beach nearby and scrubed the bottom with a scrubbie. It worked. In one week you could see just a trace of something which would come right off.
I should add that north of Cape Ann the water temperature seldom ever gets above 60F.
Don't wax it if you want the minimum skin friction but I have to go for supper. If you want to know why not to wax, I will tell you later.
02-18-2006, 08:18 PM
Nothing personal, but there seem to be some rather odd discrepancies going on here. On one hand, you want to do it right, but on the other hand most of the high quality materials are seen as too expensive and you're talking about leaving old bottom paint on the hull under the new work - which, if it's sound and compatable, can be fine, but it can also cause problems in some cases. You're also talking about using a paint (West Marine modified epoxy antifouling paint) which needs to be renewed every year (or two at absolute most if you want it to keep working) yet which leaves a thick, hard, not-too-smooth, dead layer on your boat after the copper has leeched-out. The remnants of modified epoxy after a large portion of it's volume (the copper) is gone are similar to an extremely hard layer of epoxy foam about as thick as a heavy layer of latex wall paint. After about three seasons of building fresh layers over the previous year's, it gets pretty lumpy and nasty looking and the only ways to remove it are heavy power sanding or chemical stripping (followed by power sanding to clean up the mess). As I mentioned above, once you do this once or twice, you'll say "never again" and start looking for a better way.
I'll admit to being a bit of a perfectionist, but I don't believe most self-respecting boaters would tolerate more than two or three seasons worth of this stuff on their boat bottoms without getting a very strong urge to do something drastic and clean it up - and once again, you're back to square one with a hull needing major work followed by another application of expensive paint. I got to the point where I would put it off and throw another coat on, but you know that when you do eventually grind it off, you're just making a bad job even worse.
The "ideal" treatment for a fiberglass boat would be to sand it down to clean gelcoat with the gloss ground-off. I used to use a big 8" disk grinder for this, but got too old and stiff to fight with the thing. I now use a $55, 5" P.C. random orbit and can get about three or four boats out of one before it burns out. Then you look the hull over carefully, looking for blisters. If you're lucky, there won't be any. Then you barrier coat the hull below the waterline using either a pre-mixed barrier coat product or regular epoxy that you mix with the proper additive yourself (better than the pre-mix in my opinion). This takes about six coats, rolled and tipped (10 mils or so total) and after curing, the barrier layer is then sanded smooth.
Next, you decide whether you want to go the antifouling route or the hard coating route, depending upon how often you want to scrub. If you apply the hard coat, you're done for as long as it lasts (except for the occasional scrubbing). If you go the anti-fouling route, future maintenance will depend upon what it is. Ablatives will need scrubbing (end of season) and reapplication every spring. Vinyls and teflon's like V.C. will need the same, but will slowly build up old layers on the hull. These are so thin that they probably will never get ugly and the solvents are so strong that the new layers will probably melt into and bond with the old ones. On the other hand, the modified epoxy paints guarantee that somewhere three or four years down the line, you'll have another big, nasty sanding job to do when you finally get sick of those thick layers of old dead paint on the bottom and decide to clean it up. Having gone through this exact process eventually left me wondering why they make epoxy antifouling paint at all?
I realize that you're probably sick of me hammering at you about this stuff, but it that the route you really want to take?
02-18-2006, 09:48 PM
Thank you Todd and no, I'm not sick of hearing this stuff. I'm just sick of not being able to choose the right stuff myself! It's not that I can't pay for the expensive stuff but I just don't see the need for it on a trailered boat. Ablative stuff will die if I keep the boat on a trailer for a week, getting dull, and oxidizing the copper. Epoxy will build up, like teflon and vinyl. Barrier coat would invlove removing ever trace of old paint and a whole lot of money. What's left? Honestly, all signs point to Pettit's unepoxy standard, an ablative paint. The price is right, the properties perfect, except it will dull out fairly quickly. At this point, it will have to do. I wouldn't want to be sanding the hard epoxy later on. Maybe a few years down the line, I'll get the bottom soda-blasted and barrier coated. I wouldn't mind the extra knot!
02-18-2006, 10:04 PM
Ha. Just throw a wrench into the gears...
Jamestown Dist. Classifies Pettit unepoxy std. as ablative:
J amestown Unepoxy Std (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/find;a;1;ID;,Paints,Bottom.Paint,Pettit.Bottom.Pai nt,Pettit.Unepoxy.Standard)
and Pettitpaints.com classifies it as a hard antifouling:
Pettitpaints.com Unepoxy Std. (http://www.pettitpaint.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=20)
Who is right?
02-18-2006, 10:46 PM
I used topside paint down to the chines.Yes it will get dirty and yes I will have to sand it and I also was at the same juncture as you are.But everything else was about the same kind of toss up.I chose something that is going to be easier to sand.I would try it with topside paint first.If you dont find it satisfactory it isn't such a huge chore to sand off and try the next best thing.If it isnt let to be built up the bottom will look like new with the same maintenence every year and you can touch it up easily in between.I know a guy here that painted his commercial mullet boats that he built(polyester/glass over wood) with Ben Moore exterior alkyd house paint and his paint jobs lasted 4-5 years.He swore by the stuff.I didnt think it could be so simple but it had to be to him because he needed to work the boat more than maintain it. I painted a fibreglass gamefisher many years ago with petit ez poxy and it not only locked down the fibreglass fibres that were exposed but lasted for over 10 years.Is still on the boat.I am going to try my topside paint first and then commit myself to sand it all the way off if it doesn't work out.I have had to do this already with a bad color choice.No big deal as it only took a few hours.The ablative paints I have seen on the boats at work seems to spend half of it's life looking crappy.Also consider that these paints will hold up longer over epoxy glass than on raw wood.
02-19-2006, 01:22 AM
Jamestown is wrong. Unepoxy is most certainly not an ablative paint! It's a modified epoxy and does exactly what I have warned you about. In fact, the paint that I had to grind off was Unepoxy Plus - the very same thing, but the higher priced version with a higher copper content. If you're looking for a substance that's a real bitch to get off after it's lost it's ability to protect your hull, look no farther because you've already found it! Better invest what you save by buying it in a good disk grinder, because you're gonna' need one... :eek:
Where did you hear that all ablative paints die after being out of the water for a week? If you buy one of the newer "co-polymer" ablatives, like Hydrocoat, West Marine PCA, Petit Ultima SR Micron Extra or Micron CSC you can pull them out of the water any time you want, stick the boat in the driveway for as long as you want and they'll still work just fine whenever you get around to putting the boat back in the water. These paints are specifically marketed as "multi-season ablative" antifouling paints and also for use on dry-stored boats. That's the key you want to look for as it tells you whether they will tolerate dry storage without losing their effectiveness. It also may explain why they often tend to be among the more expensive offerings, but in the long run they're probably cheaper because they won't die on you. If you can still see paint on the hull, you have at least some antifouling protection - even if it's paint left over from last season.
I'm not sure what you mean by bottom paint getting dull, since nearly all of them are pretty dull to start with when compared to glossy topside enamels. Most have a similar look and sheen to the flat or eggshell latex you might paint drywall with in your living room. I haven't used the old traditional workboat ablatives, but most of the modern ones like the copolymers mentioned above look pretty much the same throughout their lives. They don't change their appearance much, whether left in or out of the water. VC-17 gradually turns from a bright bronze color to nearly black within a few months, but that's the only one I've used that changed drastically over time.
If you want shiny, I'd go for the "VC Performance Epoxy" like Jeff used or the Racing Bronze that PMJ used. Neither are antifouling paints, so you'll have to do your own slime control, but they will hold up where other paints not designed to be kept underwater (Latex, Brightside, Easypoxy, etc.) may not last.
If you do want antifouling paint, understand that most are fairly dull-looking from the start and they stay that way. Some can be burnished if you really want to and will produce a smoother finish than the standard, rolled-on texture. Don't buy anything that says "epoxy" anywhere in the name, on the label, anyplace on the can. Where you see the word "epoxy" on a bottom paint can, think disk grinder - working over your head with all that semi-toxic crap falling on you, because that's the reality of epoxy antifouling paint.
Invest instead, in a copolymer, multi-season ablative (I would strongly recommend Hydrocoat for performance, durability, easy application and water clean-up) but Micron is also excellent if you don't mind clean-up with solvents. It will probably take two or three coats of most ablative paints initially, but after that, a quick, fresh coat per season always did the trick for us and some years it just got a touch-up on the worn areas. If your boat is stored on the trailer a touch-up should be all it needs for several seasons - and you will never have to sand off any old dead paint.
Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
02-19-2006, 07:47 AM
I've used KILZ primer and porch paint.
With a small woodenboat, repainting is a yearly thing anyway.
If I had a big boat like Pete's I'd want the best paint I could get, so I wouldn't have to do it every year. tongue.gif
02-19-2006, 11:43 AM
Thanks Todd for your posts on this subject. I'm getting ready to bottom paint my Calkins Bartender and I think I'll go with Hydrocoat.
I notice that Pettit has a paint called Vivid that is advertised as multi-season antifouling in bright and glossy colors, which might be an answer if you don't like the dull look.
02-19-2006, 11:59 AM
Yeah, I saw the Vivid. Nice colors and the gloss sounds good, but it's got that nasty "E" word in the title - which means I'll never try it (disk sander, toxic crap, etc.) I've done a lot of heavy sanding over the years, building strippers, rebuilding old wooden and fiberglass boats and even removing fiberglass sheathing, but sanding that Unepoxy off of all three hulls of our trimaran was clearly the dirtiest, nastiest sanding job I've done to date. Never again.
02-19-2006, 12:30 PM
Right, I saw that it is an epoxy formulation. But some might think a hard, shiny bottom is worth the future headaches? I think I'll benefit from your experience and steer clear of it, though.
I do plan to use epoxy-based paint topsides. For my uses, I'd think that epoxy painted topsides should last a loooong time. I used house paint on the dory I launched a couple years ago and it already needs repainting, even though it sits on a trailer indoors 99% of it's life. It has rubbed right off the corners of my planking laps. I wish I'd used a more durable finish; the last thing I need is another boat to paint, I've got bigger fish to fry!
I've been fairing my 26' hull, and after this boat, I'm hoping to take a few years off from sanding! Ugg.
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