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Jack Heinlen
09-11-2004, 10:39 PM
I was taught, and my experience is, that winning is fleeting. If you win celebrate; superior is usually worth some celebration, and, perhaps, a few verbal na nas. But any rubbing of faces is bad manners.

km gresham
09-11-2004, 10:42 PM
Who won something?

John C. Gresham
09-11-2004, 10:44 PM
I won a tee-shirt a few years ago...

Jack Heinlen
09-11-2004, 10:58 PM
The left is on the ropes. Don't gloat. That's all, no specific allegation.

Mrleft8
09-12-2004, 07:40 AM
I won the respect of my peers once.... But that was a long time ago...

km gresham
09-12-2004, 07:43 AM
It ain't over yet, Jack. There's a difference in gloating and delight that the unholy alliance of the left and the old media is crumbling under the weight of their lies and one-sided reporting.

Kerry could still win this thing, but never again will the media and the left be unchecked and unchallenged in any new story they cook up together.

N. Scheuer
09-12-2004, 07:49 AM
So, km g, where exactly does the RIGHT-WING MEDIA fit into your view of things?

Moby Nick

km gresham
09-12-2004, 08:04 AM
What right-wing media? smile.gif

Seriously, the left wing media (old media) has had the run of the place for years. Recently with the popularity of talk radio, Fox news and the internet people are getting more opinions than just that of the left and it appears that more and more people are appreciating the competition. The old media will have to change it's ways or it will be eclipsed before long.

[ 09-12-2004, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

Mrleft8
09-12-2004, 08:28 AM
Kinda like "old europe" eh?

Puddintane
09-12-2004, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Jack Heinlen:
The left is on the ropes. Don't gloat. That's all, no specific allegation.We're on the ropes? If you are saying the election is lost, well Nov. hasn't rolled around yet has it buddy?

If GWB wins, it still will never shut down my thoughts and actions concerning my beliefs. My will to fight for what's right. This administration is wrong. As wrong as they come.

Do you actually believe they are smarter and more right than the people of the world? The collective minds? The people of the world and the majority of the people of this country are against this farce of a presidency.

[ 09-12-2004, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Puddintane ]

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
09-12-2004, 10:00 AM
I know who you are.
;)

Joe (SoCal)
09-12-2004, 10:02 AM
I do to ;)

N. Scheuer
09-12-2004, 10:33 AM
"What "Right-Wing Media?"

It is exactly that sort of closed-mindednes on the part of conservatives, neo-cons, or whaterever it is that you call yourselves, while your Hero in Washington tries to reform the World according to his own nnarrow-minded views, that gets us Liberals so bent out of shape.

Our local (Illinois) Republican Candidate for US Senate, Keyes the Carpetbaggger, from Maryland, reecently observed that "Jesus Christ would not vote for his opponent" (Barack Obama).

After we all finished laughing (sorry, ROTFLOL, here) most Illini Repl. and Dem. alike, pretty much wrote Keyes off as just another standup comic who could use better writers.

Keep up the narrow-mindedness, it's our secret weapon.

Moby Nick

High C
09-12-2004, 10:38 AM
Come on Karen. Any media that's not openly campaigning for John Kerry is the "right wing media". ;)

Mark Van
09-12-2004, 11:08 AM
The most narrow-minded people I have ever meant are people who bragg about being "open minded".
(I suppose that is similer to the old saying "if he speeks of his honor, make him pay cash")

Bruce Hooke
09-12-2004, 12:21 PM
Allow me to take another try at some of what I think Jack was talking about, because this has been on my mind for quite a while now...

If we are to have any hope of maintaining a civil discourse on this forum and in the USA as a whole (not to mention the world) (I know this may be a vane hope -- many people on both sides appear to prefer vilifying their opponents to just about anything else life has to offer) then we will, I think, need to remember that the other side does represent many people of good will who honestly believe their way is the right way. A little respect for the strength and honesty of the other side's convictions would go a long way towards bringing this country back together. Rubbing the other side's face in their failings and losses on the other hand is IMOOP pretty juvenile and largely serves to divide us even more.

If we can all remember this come November we will all be much more pleasant to be around.

My apologies if this sounds like a sermon, but this has been bugging me for a long time.

Puddintane
09-12-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Know It All:
I know who you are.
;) I'm Puddintane. That's who I am. :D

Joe (SoCal)
09-12-2004, 12:37 PM
OK I won’t gloat about having to organize three closing on Friday (my 40th Birthday) for almost $3 million in sales :D

[ 09-12-2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

High C
09-12-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Puddintane:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mr. Know It All:
I know who you are.
;) I'm Puddintane. That's who I am. :D </font>[/QUOTE]And stop asking him. Every time you do, he's just gonna tell you the same.

[ 09-12-2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: High C ]

km gresham
09-12-2004, 12:47 PM
True, High C smile.gif (about right wing media)

The old media is having to figure out how to play by new rules. They put out a dubious story, present it as fact complete with forged documents and BAM! The next day the story is being debunked by guys on their computers doing a bit of investigating of their own. Soon, it's obvious to all the other news networks that CBS has stepped in it, and as they were left out of the loop, they have no problem jumping on the bandwagon to refute the story and question the sources and the evidence. Networks don't have a problem about looking biased but they don't like to look stupid if they can help it. ;)

They're gonna have to learn that if they don't do their research someone else will and if they don't present all of the evidence someone else will, and people will go where they get a complete picture of the news, not just what the old media wants us to see.

A new day has dawned in reporting the news.

[ 09-12-2004, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

km gresham
09-12-2004, 12:53 PM
Not only can the guys with the computers do the research, they can get it out in the same news cycle (or the next one) as the original story. In the old days all of this evidence that the documents are forged would not have seen the light of day until after the election.

Checkmate. smile.gif

Meerkat
09-12-2004, 02:25 PM
Ah, the never ending psychosis of the right.

Bruce Hooke
09-12-2004, 03:27 PM
What's sad is the fact that a relatively small number of people are ready to work hard at trying to debunk stories that they think they can make headlines by debunking, but the vast majority of viewers are unable to pay close enough attention to what's going on the world to have any real understanding of the world beyond their front door. Anyone who gets most or all of their news from network TV news shows (and TV and radio talk shows that are designed as entertainment but pretend to look at the news) are so ill informed that it's scary. Sadly, most stories broadcast by the network news cannot be "debunked" by trying to show that a single document was forged, they need to be "debunked" by pulling the veil off the deeper, bigger story that does not get covered because it's too complicated. So, you end up with the situation demonstrated by a number of recent polls where a large percentage of the American populace believes things that leaders of both political parties have acknowledged to be false.

Beowolf
09-12-2004, 03:45 PM
km gresham
.
Member # 6609

posted 09-11-2004 11:42 PM Who won something? THE LIONS DID! The worst road losing streak in the HISTORY OF THE NFL has ENDED!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - HOOO!

http://detroitlions.com/photos/Terrence_Holt_0912_1.jpg

Jeff

Donn
09-12-2004, 03:52 PM
:D

km gresham
09-12-2004, 04:15 PM
:D

LeeG
09-13-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Jack Heinlen:
The left is on the ropes. Don't gloat. That's all, no specific allegation.practice random acts of kindness. Be irresponsible. This should be heard. I didn't say it.

Beowolf
09-13-2004, 02:06 PM
Fred...Do you drive a Ford?

Jack Heinlen
09-13-2004, 02:50 PM
Puddin, or Mike, or whoever you are. On the ropes doesn't mean down for the count, or out. A lot can happen in six and a half weeks. But Kerry and the Left haven't faired too well of late. I called for a bit of circumspection, manners, good sportsmanship.

Bruce Hooke amplified it well.

No matter who wins in November the nation is at war. Our small actions, our words, have an impact on our brothers and sisters of different political stripes, and on the direction of national conviviality.

In the past I've, occasionally, been intemperate in my speech. No matter who wins in November I hope I've learned the lesson that excessive and uncontrolled anger or gloating is destructive, to both our common ideals and to the one most salient political feature of this wonderful country of ours. It has seen us through vicious attack, civil war, global war, depressions, racial conflict and assassination. It is our ability to eventually compromise and move forward.

I'm polishing off a wonderful history, Commander in Chief, Larrabee. It's, largely, about WWII's American chain of command at the highest levels. One of the main points of the book is the ability of people in a time of crisis to set aside their differences and work together toward a common goal. The example that stands out is the personality conflict between General Marshall, assigned the duty of building an army capable of fighting a two-front war, and Admiral King, assigned the duty of rebuilding a navy capable of the same. Neither was a natural politician, both were strong willed, and to say they didn't like each other would be an understatement. They were also the best men for the jobs. There is a poignant scene, reconstructed from diaries and correspondence, where the two men sit down, discuss the larger issues at stake, and agree to set aside their personal animus. They worked well together after that airing of their differences and agreement not to let them interfere. Though they never liked each other, they came to respect each other.

Giants, those men. We would do well, if we desire to honor their legacy, to attempt, whenever possible, to reconcile our differences and move forward through this very difficult time.

[ 09-13-2004, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

LeeG
09-13-2004, 02:55 PM
and senseless acts of beauty

Joe (SoCal)
09-13-2004, 02:57 PM
Two new listings today one for $1.6 million and one for $450,000 :D But I'm not gloating :D

Oh and I got 5 cords of wood delivered today for $250 + $50 to stack it smile.gif

Alan D. Hyde
09-13-2004, 03:05 PM
A good point, Jack, and well said, Bruce Hooke.

We're all in this together.

Good manners are the oil that lubricate the social machine, and without which the inherent friction would heat it to destruction.

Alan

Keith Wilson
09-13-2004, 03:19 PM
We need to remember that the other side does represent many people of good will who honestly believe their way is the right way. A little respect for the strength and honesty of the other side's convictions would go a long way towards bringing this country back together. HEAR, HEAR!

Regarding campaign tactics and debunking (and this works equally for both sides), to paraphrase Karl Rove, "If they have to explain, they've lost." I don't care how fast the news cycle is, the accusation always gets more press than the debunking, and thus it's always more advantageous in the short term to fling mud than to wash it off. :(

swanko
09-13-2004, 03:36 PM
well, this is wonderful to see. fellow americans at each others throats.

and as it should be. democracy is not pleasant. it is effort and hot work. we are all reading and researching the political agenda more now than in the last 30 years.

because this is a turning point in history. and will the "new" view prevail, or will wisdom from past experience set the course? or something in the middle.

colin powell hinted at the critical point today. if the draft comes, will you be able to get a deferment for your kid, or will everyone have to go? we'll see how brave everyone is then.

be glad we can talk about it. for now.

Puddintane
09-13-2004, 03:42 PM
"colin powell hinted at the critical point today. if the draft comes, will you be able to get a deferment for your kid, or will everyone have to go? we'll see how brave everyone is then."

Exactly, the rich will get deferments as did Cheney and the poor kids will die.

Alan D. Hyde
09-13-2004, 04:01 PM
Do a little research, Mike.

See what happened to General of the Armies* of the United States John J. Pershing's grandson.

Or to several of my own friends.

Courage knows no boundaries of class or region or clime.

"A man's but a man for a' that..." Robert Burns

Alan

* The first and only man, after George Washington, to hold this rank.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/rwpershing4.jpg

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/richardw.htm

[ 09-13-2004, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]