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View Full Version : It's a battle of perception-rumsfield



LeeG
10-10-2004, 08:52 AM
See,,it's not reality that's the problem. It's how you perceive it. This has got to be the stake through the heart of the Straussian neo-con vision where misleading perceptions and propoganda are necessary tools for a leading elite.
Group-think started at the top,,not down in the halls of the CIA.
The "coalition" is immaterial. The number of private contractors providing security and the number of UK soldiers are about the same. The math is pretty simple. Country of 26million. No indiginous security except militias. About 1/3 the forces necessary according to conservative military types.
Anyone have an employer hand you a task with insufficient means to accomplish the task then hold you responsible for the consequences? Or inadequately train a new employee then blame the rest of the work force for not covering for them?
It's a battle of perception?



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3730632.stm

'Test of wills'

Mr Rumsfeld had breakfast with US marine commanders at the al-Asad airbase, 200 km (125 miles) north-west of Baghdad.


Donald Rumsfeld briefs reporters before arriving in Iraq

He later told an audience of 1,500 US marines that the US and its allies were engaged in a "test of wills" with Iraqi insurgents.

"They know they cannot defeat us militarily, but they are hoping they can win the test of wills," he said.

"It's a battle of perception. They are hoping to cause members of the coalition to decide that the pain and the ugliness and the difficulty of the task is simply too great."

[ 10-10-2004, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: LeeG ]

imported_Dutch
10-10-2004, 09:50 AM
Everytime that I look in the mirror
All these lines on my face gettiní clearer
The past is gone
It went by like dust to dawn
Isnít that the way
Everybodyís got their dues in life to pay

I know what nobody knows
Where it comes and where it goes
I know itís everybodyís sin
You got to lose to know how to win

Half my life is in booksí written pages
Live and learn from fools and from sages
You know itís true
All the things come back to you

Sing with me, sing for the years
Sing for the laughter, sing for the tears
Sing with me, if itís just for today
Maybe tomorrow the good lord will take you away
(x2)

Dream on, dream on
Dream yourself a dream come true
Dream on, dream on
Dream until your dream come true
Dream on, dream on, dream on...

Sing with me, sing for the years
Sing for the laughter and sing for the tears
Sing with me, if itís just for today
Maybe tomorrow the good lord will take you away

Victor
10-10-2004, 02:32 PM
Sure it's a battle of perception - who quits first? The Germans thought the Blitz would weaken Britain's resolve, but it didn't. Then we thought mass bombing of Germany would weaken their resolve, but it didn't. The enemy doesn't lose his will to fight til he loses the ability to do so. In 91 we achieved that goal, now it's impossible. Damn guerillas - er, excuse me, I mean terrorists.

Nightmoves
10-10-2004, 02:52 PM
I'm a big fan of Rumsfield. :D

Maybe you girls need to up your dose of Midol?

imported_Dutch
10-10-2004, 03:05 PM
great come back stan. well thought out. sort of like gw on the canadian drug question only stupider

LeeG
10-10-2004, 03:06 PM
no, perception is what happens between the ears. When someone is blown up they don't shoot back,,we may perceive what it means differently but the fact someone can't pick up the gun is pretty much beyond interpretation. What Rumsfield has done is expressed a reality for HIM. What happens on the ground with X forces against Y forces is not a matter of perception anymore than carrying 30lbs or 130lbs is a matter of perception.
The battle of perceptions Rumsfield has been expending energy on started with the Office of Special Plans where ideologues remanufactured links to Al Qeda, brought out the significance of forged documents proving an on going nuclear program (Hamza), brought out the experts vetted by Chalabi. The battle of perceptions was a necessary one for transforming the military and ending heavy weapons like the Crusader howitzer but it also brought with it the insistance on a minimal footprint to showcase the faster more effective military,,shock and awe. It worked. With no consideration for what happened afterwards. The battle of perceptions was Rumsfield/Wolfowitz/Feith planning for best case scenarios while conservative military analysts and middle east academics who KNOW what happens when worst case scenarios happen were suggesting otherwise. THAT is the battle Rumsfield is experiencing. The marines have very physical and concrete things to battle with,,,the Iraqis perceptions is not one of them. Our perceptions are not what is shooting at them. But if a SecDef puts together a plan on best case scenarios and holds out for reality to conform,,,there's a problem. If the president can't acknowledge there's a problem,,,we've got a problem.

[ 10-10-2004, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: LeeG ]

Nightmoves
10-10-2004, 03:08 PM
I'm sure in this day and age Midol may come in suppository. I've got a sling shot....let me know what I can do to help.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

LeeG
10-10-2004, 03:09 PM
stan, I'm a big fan of all these guys. That's why I listen to what they say and do.

Nightmoves
10-10-2004, 03:10 PM
I bet you have your own sling shot.

LeeG
10-10-2004, 03:12 PM
Stan, you could express a thought that doesn't involve an insult.

Nightmoves
10-10-2004, 03:14 PM
Liberals insult America daily.

I know, I know....'Liberals' is name calling. tongue.gif

Victor
10-10-2004, 03:15 PM
At least Rumsfeld is honest. Same was true in Vietnam. They could never defeat us militarily but they knew they could wait us out. That's what guerilla war is for.

Read an interesting book once by a Marine who was in Vietnam after 72. He said it was ironic how Nixon actually achieved the pacification that he and Johnson had sought for so long - the Delta was virtually free of enemy activity, and life was returning to normal there. But it was too late for anyone to notice, or care.

And people like NM are just what the warmakers hope for - brainless followers. Still, it's encouraging to see that Rumsfeld does not assume he has this advantage.

George.
10-10-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Victor:
The enemy doesn't lose his will to fight til he loses the ability to do so. Profound. And very true. Maybe it is because the leadership on both sides is always insulated from any will-busting tactics that may make the front-line bastards waver.

And until the leaders give up and call it a day there are always fools willing to fight on.

LeeG
10-10-2004, 08:48 PM
This bit is an example of a battle of perceptions.

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20041009/2004-10-09T215407Z_01_N09450738_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-CAMPAIGN-BUSH-DC.html

[ 10-10-2004, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: LeeG ]