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View Full Version : More Motor Problems, Boat related, FIXED and Fun photos added



Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 11:26 AM
So with the Saab in the shop, I decided to go out on the boat, nice day and all. Get down to the slip, pull the new Honda Rain Cover off the NEW Honda 2 hp 4 stoke engine. Check gas and oil level open the vent on the gas cap, toggle the fuel line to open, pull out the choke set the throttle to start. All set to go I pull the cord and prrrrrr the engine comes to life. I push the choke in and put put put the motor dies with a little poof of blue smoke. :( Subsequent attempt to pull start it back to life fail. The cord feels odd and sluggish. Pissed :mad: I close the vent put everything back and walk away in mad at the world :(

I could just go sailing in it but ya know what I'm afraid I might break the wind ;)

[ 10-03-2005, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Katherine
10-03-2005, 11:28 AM
Mechanical things are just not your friend. :D

Popeye
10-03-2005, 11:37 AM
a pair of pannyhose makes an excellent towline

Katherine
10-03-2005, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by popeye:
a pair of pannyhose makes an excellent towlineAre fishnets stronger then regular? How about control top? :D

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 11:48 AM
Thanks :rolleyes:
lot of help :confused:
I know halloween is coming, I also know I annually ONCE a year I dress in drag for the occasion as a joke. But does it have to become a year long thing ? I may just stop posting the halloween fun thread it just gets used to torment me way too much, its just supposed to be a goof nothing more.

Sorry if I'm out of humor today, I seriously was pissed that the NEW Honda would not start. :mad: I wanted to get out on the water :(

Now I'm just going to go to the place where we bought it and have them fix or replace it, its only a few months old. :(

[ 10-03-2005, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Katherine
10-03-2005, 11:51 AM
Seriously Joe, it sounds like the little Honda needs a real mechanic. If it's new, it should be under warranty. I know it's a pain, but this to shall pass.

Art Read
10-03-2005, 11:53 AM
Try it again, you probably just flooded it.

Popeye
10-03-2005, 11:55 AM
ya, sounds flooded, try her again ... ya big palooka :D

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 11:55 AM
How could I have flooded it ? It wasn't used all weekend ? It started up fine first pull then died when I pushed the choke and throttle up. HEY I will go back down to the slip and try again. But before I go any other hints would be helpful. I'm in my office in town and its just blocks from the boat.

[ 10-03-2005, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Gary E
10-03-2005, 11:55 AM
How many years has it been since you used a MANUAL CHOKE on your car? ... some of you dont even know that the car has one let alone that it used to be manual.

Keep it choked for awhile, till it warms up somewhat. or...send it back to Japan and buy an American engine.

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Katherine:
I know it's a pain, but this to shall pass.Yea and so will the nice weather :( :( :(

Katherine
10-03-2005, 11:57 AM
Can you get out on the water with just the sails or oars?

cs
10-03-2005, 12:00 PM
Joe it also sounds like to me that you flooded it. With a manual choke you need to let the engine warm up before completly disengaging the choke. I usually start it and feather the choke back till it runs smooth.

If flooded real bad, pull the plug and clean it and than with the fuel off and the plug out, crank on the motor a few times to try and pump the gas out.

On a car if you flood it the best thing to do is to start cranking the engine and than floor the gas while trying to start.

Back when I had an RX-7 when it flooded (when the weather made a drastic change) I would disconect the fuel pump and start it. When it started I would hurridly reach under the dash and plug the fuel pump back in.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Katherine:
Can you get out on the water with just the sails or oars?Yes the sails rigging and mast are home, bit of a hassle. Besides I have to pick tess up at school today @ 3:00 and take her to her drama class ( LIKE SHE NEEDS A CLASS ON DRAMA :D ( OK humor momentarily back on that thought :D ) )

I was actually hoping to do this cool thing which is motor down to Garrison Landing, which is where the theater is, take the train back one stop to Cold Spring . Pick up Tess drive her to her to the theater in Garrison. Then take her on a little boat ride back to Cold Spring then both of us get back on the train one stop and pick up the car. Kinda fun dad and daughter train / boating afternoon smile.gif

[ 10-03-2005, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

cs
10-03-2005, 12:03 PM
Joe, don't let something like a flooded engine stop you. An extra 15 minutes and you will be on your way.

Chad

Katherine
10-03-2005, 12:04 PM
Try Chad's method for starting it. My snowmobile gets kind of cranky some days and I have to do the same thing to it.

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 12:07 PM
Off to the boat to give it another shot.

Art Read
10-03-2005, 12:07 PM
"How could I have flooded it ? It wasn't used all weekend ?"

That's what "flooding" is, Joe. A cold engine with too much fuel too quickly. Now that it's sat for awhile, it will probably start right back up again. Keep the choke out a bit longer this time and try "feathering" it in slowly like Chad suggested. Don't worry, it's a new engine. Given time you, and only you, will know all it's needs and wants and you'll look like an engine guru when only you can start the beast! ;)

[ 10-03-2005, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Art Read ]

Popeye
10-03-2005, 12:08 PM
i usually pop the air breather off if it's flooded, this helps a start

Scott Rosen
10-03-2005, 12:15 PM
Joe, I have the same engine. It's always been a bit tempermental on starting cold. I leave the choke out a bit until the engine warms up.

cs
10-03-2005, 12:19 PM
Joe, if you listen to the motor you can tell when to push the choke in. As the motor starts to sputter push the choke in and the idle should go up. If you go to far it will start to sputter again. Listen to your motor, it will tell you what it needs.

Chad

edited to add: When I say push the choke in I mean gently and slowly in case you didn't understand my reference to feathering.

[ 10-03-2005, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: cs ]

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 12:44 PM
Arrrrrrrrg NOPE :mad:
I can get it to start but now it's bellowing smoke. :rolleyes: It will run for a minute with the choke pulled then dies. Feathering the choke works a little but the smoke has me jittery :(

So now with the addition of smoke and thinking of taking my 7 year old daughter out in the mighty hudson. I GIVE UP :( :mad:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/pbdd0c4ab72504a207b1a6031cab66cd0/f2091304.jpg

cs
10-03-2005, 12:49 PM
Joe, a flooded engine will smoke once it starts. Give it a minute to warm up.

Chad

edited to add: White smoke from the exhaust after starting a flooded motor is un burnt fuel being exhausted out.

[ 10-03-2005, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: cs ]

cedar savage
10-03-2005, 12:49 PM
Not usin' gas with pre-mix or two cycle oil in it are you?

Gary E
10-03-2005, 12:52 PM
Looks like blue oil smoke.. maybe you had it laying down so that oil ran into the cylinder?

Only way to fix that is never lay it down that way again and keep it running til the smoking stops...

If it starts realy missing it could be that th eplug is now fouled, pull it out and clean it or replace it.

[ 10-03-2005, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Gary E ]

cs
10-03-2005, 12:53 PM
I need to add a disclaimer here. I'm assuming that Joe is has checked all fluid levels including the oil and that he has not put mixed oil/gas for a 2 stroke in a four stroke.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by cedar savage:
Not usin' gas with pre-mix or two cycle oil in it are you?Nope a 4 stroke reg gas. :(

Not laying down. My buddy who I share this with filled the oil might have been too much oil :(

[ 10-03-2005, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Popeye
10-03-2005, 01:01 PM
buddy of mine has this motor, exact same problem occured when he laid it on its side .. the wrong side , the manual says which side down is correct. stand upright is best.

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 01:05 PM
Always on the transom never on it's side.

Called the place where we bought it. Said try to drain the carb and might have been over filled with oil so drain some oil.

Will report back but now its 2:00 and the day is going fast :(

Popeye
10-03-2005, 01:08 PM
anoidurer problem is the oil level sight glass is finnicky, just a little off vertical axis indicates wrong oil level

Matt J.
10-03-2005, 01:08 PM
Too much oil.

Alan D. Hyde
10-03-2005, 01:10 PM
Agreed.

Alan

Memphis Mike
10-03-2005, 01:18 PM
Next time buy a Mercury.

Popeye
10-03-2005, 01:22 PM
crazy 'bout a Mercury

cs
10-03-2005, 01:33 PM
Take my advice with a grain of salt, but here goes.

I still believe that all that is wrong here is that the engine was flooded and sounds like it was flooded good. Joe, check you oil level first and formost. As always oil level is critical to engines.

A flooded engine will smoke upon starting up. Don't believe me, flood a RX-7 and than once you get it cranked watch all the smoke billowing out the exhaust.

If Joe used it a week or so ago and had no problems and he hasn't added any oil or none has leaked out and if there has been a weather change I would be almost willing to bet that all we are talking about is a flooded engine.

Joe, it may take a minute or two or maybe more for the engine to warm up comletly and good enough for it to run without the choke. While an engine is being chocked, once again, it will smoke.

Chad

[ 10-03-2005, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: cs ]

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 01:42 PM
Eureka :D
Found the little screw to drain the carb.
Pulled the cord vrooom let it rev for a while lots of smoke.
Pushed the choke in a bit to get it to idle nice, but not all the way. Let it rev a bit smoke died down. Took her out for a little spin no problem. back in my office off to pick up Tess and then we will motor down to her drama class in Garrison and then motor home. Hopefully with out any ADDITIONAL DRAMMA :D

Thanks for all your help.

[ 10-03-2005, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

cs
10-03-2005, 01:46 PM
Not a problem Joe, glad to help, the bill will be in the mail. :D ;)

Chad

Alan D. Hyde
10-03-2005, 01:58 PM
Joe, never go out on the water--- relying upon an engine--- unless you know at least the basics of how to fix it.

I know you may have oars, and if you can progress against the current with them, then good.

But---- if it takes that engine to get back before dark, or before the thunderstorm, or what-have-you--- then I'd want to get to know that engine better. Perhaps there's a sharp local mechanic who teaches a good short course?

Alan

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 02:59 PM
Just landed in Garrison no problems. I would never take Tess beyond where I was comfortable rowing. We will have the tide with us on the way back, so it will be easyer

Stiletto
10-03-2005, 04:12 PM
CS Chad, what is the connection between a weather change and a flooded engine?

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 06:24 PM
Ok so what a wonderful day out motoring with Tess. This is the first time I can truly say she got into it. Asking questions about the river and the land around. Looking at hawks in the sky and how to tie a dock line. We zipped to her class almost full throttle, then on the way back we took our time to investigate the coves and have some quality dad & daughter time. Out to dinner together them home to meet up with mom and tell her what fun we had.

Smiles say it all :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/pcbe54260e0485292b5a7e0f84f6368fa/f207f446.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/p101801a5790acd5101d074c071577843/f207f458.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/p60ef0061174eeb88591cfcd8bfea9b89/f207f10a.jpg

Hey anyone notice the T shirt ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/pdcf8c6f46c6c92cd413ef5a56b21908d/f207f43a.jpg

[ 10-03-2005, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Stiletto
10-03-2005, 06:45 PM
Good on yer Mate! :cool:

cs
10-03-2005, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Stiletto:
CS Chad, what is the connection between a weather change and a flooded engine?Don't know if I can give you the correct technical reason. When you have a drastic weather change all your seals and yes even your metal parts will change slightly. Fuel will flow differently and the engine will be at a drasticly different temp.

I imagine that all these little things will play a factor in that first start up when the weather makes a drastic change. Going from one extreme to the other has effects on the delictaly balanced machines. And have no doubt, an engine is a balanced machine that has close tolerances.

Most cars nowdays this is not appearant. Your onboard computer will compensate for this. Older motors and esp. ones with manual chocks don't compensate as easily.

The vehicle that I have seen that this is the most prominant in is the RX-7. It is an extremly good car, but doesn't respond well to drastic weather changes.

Can't tell you why, can only speculate, but I have seen it happen too many times.

Chad

John B
10-03-2005, 07:11 PM
just for the record, you don't choke a flooded engine. You shut the choke off, open the throttle to full to allow maximum oxygen , and you turn it over.be ready to back off the throttle.

Hwyl
10-03-2005, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
[QB] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/pcbe54260e0485292b5a7e0f84f6368fa/f207f446.jpg



Hey anyone notice the T shirt ;)

[QB][QUOTE]

Well it's not being hidden by the PFD. (it's the sailing intructor in me)

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Hwyl:
Well it's not being hidden by the PFD. (it's the sailing intructor in me)Scroll up the PFD was on as soon as we got it out of the boat ;)

cs
10-03-2005, 07:19 PM
John, you are correct. Once it is flooded you need to increase the air flow rather than decrease. I got carried away and didn't make that clear.

Remove the plug and turning it over and than give it full gas when starting is right on cue though.

And the routine I outlined for starting a cold engine is correct also.

But like you point out that is two different animals.

By draining all the gas out of the carb, Joe did right.

Chad

Paul Pless
10-03-2005, 07:22 PM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid189/p101801a5790acd5101d074c071577843/f207f458.jpg

I've never been much fired up about self portraits, but I like this one. good on you

John B
10-03-2005, 07:28 PM
Not chipping at you Chad. ;)
Yes he did get the right advice. He may have been able to start it by the choke off/full throttle method as well. Especially since it hasn't an accelerator pump ( I had a holley double pumper on an engine once ... it seemed like it squirted a beer can's worth in every hit LOL)

George Jung
10-03-2005, 07:34 PM
Joe, yer a lucky dog! :D Darned cute kid. Those trips are the best.

Hwyl
10-03-2005, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hwyl:
Well it's not being hidden by the PFD. (it's the sailing instructor in me)Scroll up the PFD was on as soon as we got it out of the boat ;) </font>[/QUOTE]The law says "on the dock" (make sense too, kids are more likely to run off a dock). I do know that you'd swim up a waterfall to save Tess. I'm just pushing you.

At least I didn't say PFD stood for "poor fallible Dutch"

Joe (SoCal)
10-03-2005, 07:52 PM
Ya know I was a little tense with her on the dock. But I had to get the PFD from INSIDE of the boat. And Tess was so excited there was no way she was going to wait until I got the PFD and had her wait off the dock. Besides she was very careful on the dock and she listens to me well, I think its also good to teach her a respect on the dock. And yes I would swim UP a waterfall if I had too :D

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
10-03-2005, 08:07 PM
Looks like some quality time Joe. ;)
Remember thats not just a motor, it's a "boat motor". They always have personallity. :D