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Memphis Mike
12-18-2002, 07:04 PM
In the news tonight are plans for new
buildings at that location. IMO, it's a
burial ground and should be left as such.
A memorial should be erected but I'm
against over development.

How does everyone else feel?

jack grebe
12-18-2002, 07:09 PM
It all comes down to the value of real estate
like any other burial ground they can just move the graves and build

Mr. Know It All
12-18-2002, 08:15 PM
Thats a really good question MM. :confused: I'm gonna have to think about it for a while before I answer.
Peace----> Kevin in Ohio

John Bell
12-18-2002, 10:18 PM
I think we should go on living there. Otherwise, it is a wound that we never allow to heal. The WTC was symbolic of our strength, which is why they attacked it twice in 1993 and 2001. Leaving it essentially as is would be tantamount to giving those who would destroy us a symbolic victory. I hope they put up an even taller building there.

stan v
12-18-2002, 10:22 PM
John, I couldn't agree more. We have to re-build. Memorialize? Certainly.

rodcross
12-18-2002, 10:35 PM
Put it back. Bigger and better. It was also a world trade center for the exchange of commerce and information. A lot of good things were happening there. A lot of barriers were being broken. There is no better monument than to create something better than the thing that was lost. There is no better memorial to those lost lives than to be sure that what happens there is better than had been done there, before.

garland reese
12-18-2002, 10:36 PM
New York could use a nice Memorial Park. I'm sure a large number of those who lost their loved ones would like to see a nice place for some peace and respite and rememberance there.

Some developer getting rich putting up a new corporate building would be worse than,.. well,.. worse than taking the lines off a 12 1/2 :D

rodcross
12-19-2002, 12:40 AM
Garland,

You, of all people. You had the experience several years before the second disaster...and you're worried that someone might make some money on the reconstruction? Are you going to let some unbalanced idiot change the way Oklahoma City lives it life?

Put a park there; Built a Wall, so people can go and mourn. That's not recovery. That's resignation.

Some people forget where we come from. Nearly all of us come from famlies that, in their history, were murdered, enslaved, oppressed, discriminated against... What kind of memorial was raised for them? I'll tell you: an entire country, your country, that was resiliant, proud and dedicated.

Resign that, if you wish. I won't. Our ancestors and the dead at the World Trade Center and Oklahoma City deserve more than that.

imported_Conrad
12-19-2002, 01:55 AM
Last I heard it was privately held property, so how about letting the owner do what he or she wants with it? If New York, or some other entity wants to buy a piece for a memorial, that could be appropriate. Or the developer could incorporate a memorial into whatever replaces the towers.

Nicholas Carey
12-19-2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Conrad S.:
Last I heard it was privately held property, so how about letting the owner do what he or she wants with itThe property -- all 16 acres -- is owned by the Port Authority. Except for the street Rights-of-Way which are owned by the City of New York.

The WTC was leased to a private operator (improvidentially, just before it went blooie,) but the property still belongs to the People.

brad9798
12-19-2002, 02:56 PM
Rebuild with an eye to the future ... but a thought of the past.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-19-2002, 03:00 PM
There will be a lot of discussion on this, but my opinion is for a new building that stands taller and prouder than before. A memorial should be incorporated of course. The WTC was a symbol of western democracy... I wouldn't give the terrorist bastards the satisfaction of seeing it left vacant.

Ken Hall
12-19-2002, 03:33 PM
Build it exactly like it was, down to the last rivet, and add a statue of a one-finger salute facing on a bearing to Riyadh.

ken mcclure
12-19-2002, 03:39 PM
Build.

What better "thumb-in-the-nose, wiggling fingers" than to have life go on there as if nothing had happened?

I think a memorial inside whatever's built would be appropriate.

Mrleft8
12-19-2002, 03:42 PM
I think if they build another building there, it might bring bad memories back to people who were traumatized. I think we should put a big fluffy pillow on the site, where sensitive people can go and curl up and be all safe and cozy....

Alan D. Hyde
12-19-2002, 04:03 PM
New York needs to enhance, not reduce, its tax base. It'll become increasingly hard to fill office space there, though.

New York prices are high, and Bloomberg (a RINO-- Republican In Name Only) has substantially raised taxes and added to regulations (soon, probably no more smoking in public places-- including bars and restaurants).

People in commerce once needed to concentrate in major ports and commercial centers like New York. So they grumbled and paid. Now, with the increasing opportunities offered by the internet, many can conduct their businesses from a more agreeable and lower-cost, less-hassle, locale. I don't see why they won't do so, in increasing numbers.

Alan

P.S. A tasteful and artisticly authentic bronze sculpture group, of human proportions, would make a good monument to the heroic response to the September Massacre by some of the WTC building tenants, by firefighters and police, and by some members of the general public. As for what Osama's boys did: that was a defeat, not to be memorialized, but rather to be avenged.

imported_Conrad
12-19-2002, 04:52 PM
Nicholas- thanks for the correction/clarification.

Don Olney
12-19-2002, 10:48 PM
As for creating even taller buildings on the WTC site, I think the practical reality of finding companies to rent office space in such buildings and the difficulty they would have in attracting employees who would want to work in them needs to be considered. I would not work there. I've had this discussion many times with many New Yorkers over the past year and I can tell you that such a building would be shunned. Imagine yourself sitting in a cubicle on the 92nd floor trying to concentrate on that all-important memo to Mr. Bemis.

New York architecture does not need any symbols of anything. What it needs is a combination of practicality and style like a classic wooden yacht -- commercial and residential buildings that are both pleasing to look at and comfortable for those working or living in them.

Seven teams of architects yesterday unveiled proposals for new designs at the WTC site. I must say, I find six of them to be disgusting, vulgar, Las Vegas type trash. Junk Yard Wars could have produced better designs in less time. A couple of the designs are truly baffling. I got the same feeling as when I see some of the utterly foolish garbage some "high" fashion designers "create". What are they thinking? How can what they give us be so far from what is needed?

Instead of an Alden sloop, they gave us another Sea Ray.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/19/nyregion/19REBU.html

NormMessinger
12-19-2002, 11:21 PM
Right, Don. I glanced at the pictures of the designs in our paper this evening. It looks like if it is going to be done right maybe this forum should do it. The way Oyster and Memphis Mike work togeather I'd say they could head up the team and we'd do better. Blech!

--Norm

Nicholas Carey
12-20-2002, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by Don Olney:
Seven teams of architects yesterday unveiled proposals for new designs at the WTC site. I must say, I find six of them to be disgusting, vulgar, Las Vegas type trash. Junk Yard Wars could have produced better designs in less time. A couple of the designs are truly baffling. I got the same feeling as when I see some of the utterly foolish garbage some "high" fashion designers "create". What are they thinking? How can what they give us be so far from what is needed?

Instead of an Alden sloop, they gave us another Sea Ray.I was thinking more along the lines of low-end Bayliner, myself. :D

What NY needs is to have a juried competition and lay down rules for it that will result in something more like Rockefeller Center than the Bellagio in Las Vegas.

They need to think about stuff that will still look good in a century or more, not about stuff that strokes the architect's ego -- which is largely what modern Architecture is all about.

They don't need a huge 16 acre memorial to bad luck and being in the wrong place at the wrong time, beyond something simple. See the Mémorial des Martyrs de la Déportation (http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/GALLKR/KPARIS07.htm) in Paris, or the Vietnam Memorial for the sort of low key, graceful work that can be done along those lines.

garland reese
12-20-2002, 11:41 AM
The Murrah site is miniscule in comparison to the WTC site. I'm sure there's room to do both, and since real estate is of a premium in NYC, that would be a nice way to go. A few blocks down the road a bigger and better Federal campus is being built. OKC does not have the property sqeeze that NYC suffers. We've got a new ballpark. The new Ford Center Arena is now hosting regular events of all manner, An old warehouse district (Bicktown) is spring forth new business, restaraunt, clubs and such, we've got a new canal running through Bricktown for folks to gawk at, and the North Canadian River has seen usable water levels for the first time since it was turned into an oversized barditch in the '50s.
The memorial is not a mourning wall. It serves as a memorial to those who died and I hope, as a reminder to us all to NEVER take freedom and security for granted. OKC has moved on nicely, thank you. I know that NYC has too. I didn't mean to offend. Mike asked for opinions.

Rod, resignation? You'll see no resignation here Hoss.....that would be sittin' on the fence wonderin' what to do about those responsible and what's gonna happen next. I don't see any of that happening here, Bud. Resignation? We've a good friend who should, by all accounts, have been dead, but after countless procedures, and plates, and pins, and reconstrucitons, and you name it....she's still standing....LITTERALLY!

I think they did a nice job with a tribute:
http://www.elsweb.net/photos/okcm_wholeview.jpg

[ 12-20-2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: garland reese ]

Eric Sea Frog
12-20-2002, 06:11 PM
Considering the ongoing projects, the next monument could be as depressing as the very event it's supposed to help soothe.
Why not dig into the New-Yorker heritage for that matter? The best-looking skyscraper I find is the Chrysler building, a perfect gothic tribute to the city, as any Godzilla-King-Kong Hollywood film-maker has long known.
A couple of those shapely towers would comely replace their unfortunate, square predecessors.
Built as exact twins, they would be albeit reminders of their elder sisters.
Their gothic tops would provide the memorial to the victims with a proper shrine.