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Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 09:58 AM
If you are looking to buy a home and you go into a real estate office and work with a broker and the broker is competent and through and helpful. You should not be allowed to go down the block to another broker and buy the exact same house I showed you. Especially if you had a great rapore going and we went out to lunch and laughed and talked at length about your needs and wants regarding a home purchase.

And no it's NOT OK that your response is, I didn't know, or I did not want to keep bothering you.

Now you know!!!!

Real estate agents make there commission SELLING you a house. They do not make their commissions taking you to lunch and driving you around and fulfilling your requirements and showing you homes. So you can go down the street one month later and buy the SAME house I showed you. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The general public thinks that buying a house is like buying a loaf of bread. They can go to Foodtown™ to buy it but if Shopright™ is closer at the time they can just go in there. NO !!!! if you work with a broker once and you think he/she is competent and you enjoy working with them then you BUY with them. If you think they are incompetent then you tell them you are going to work with another broker.

RANT OVER

[ 01-20-2006, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

cedar savage
01-20-2006, 10:02 AM
Yeah, I don't get it. Having wiped the slime off one, why go to another?

ssor
01-20-2006, 10:02 AM
That can be a real pisser. :mad:

martin schulz
01-20-2006, 10:03 AM
Well I always like to go to a store to get a proper consultation then head back home and buy the stuff at an internetshop...

You are not alone, why should you be better off then the rest of us? There is no ethics anymore - nowhere.

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 10:05 AM
Cedar, I resent the implication that since you think all real estate agents are slime that I'm slimy. :mad: I'm a professional and ethical to a fault, and I take my job very seriously. Thank you

Uncle Duke
01-20-2006, 10:06 AM
Aren't there protections around this stuff? I admit ignorance about this situation, but shouldn't the second broker owe you something? Or does that only apply if there is some "formal" agreement with the buyer? How does that work?
(... not well, I guess....)

cedar savage
01-20-2006, 10:09 AM
Resent away. Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

The way people treat you is simply an indicator of attitudes towards real estate agents in general.

PatCox
01-20-2006, 10:10 AM
The commission is earned by the broker who caused the deal to occur. Here in New Jersey there are some specific rules which examine the situation of a buyer introduced to the property by one person, but consummated the deal with another broker. Depends on whether the second broker knowingly interfered in the original relationship, in some cases.

I have represented a broker who had this happen to him and I won the case before the Board of Realtors arbitration board.

On the downside, it does not make one a popular guy in your local realtor community, and the cost of that has to be weighed. My client was not popular anyway and didn't care.

Billy Bones
01-20-2006, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
If you are looking to buy a home and you go into a real estate office and work with a broker and the broker is competent and through and helpful. You should not be allowed to go down the block to another broker and buy the exact same house I showed you. Especially if you had a great rapore going and we went out to lunch and laughed and talked at length about your needs and wants regarding a home purchase.

And no it's NOT OK that your response is, I didn't know, or I did not want to keep bothering you.

Now you know!!!!

Real estate agents make there commission SELLING you a house. They do not make their commissions taking you to lunch and driving you around and fulfilling your requirements and showing you homes. So you can go down the street one month later and buy the SAME house I showed you. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The general public thinks that buying a house is like buying a loaf of bread. They can go to Foodtown™ to buy it but if Shopright™ is closer at the time they can just go in there. NO !!!! if you work with a broker once and you think he/she is competent and you enjoy working with them then you BUY with them. If you think they are incompetent then you tell them you are going to work with another broker.

RANT OVERThank you, mister broker, for a flaming lecture on how you think I, the customer, should behave.

"Honey, let's try a different broker."

"Yes, dear. How about one who can spell."

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 10:18 AM
There is NO LAW
I have heard of a rare case when an agent went to a closing the lawyer for the seller told both selling and listing agent to go home. :confused: Confused both agents asked why? The lawyer said because the seller refused to pay a commission, even though they entered into a contract. The lawyer simply said don't even try to collect you wont get a dime. And they didn't The seller has no obligation to pay a commission to the agency. And what agency is going to start suing a listing they will never get any other listings if they did that. So if you want to talk about slime its on both sides of unethical people in the transaction.

Uncle Duke
01-20-2006, 10:20 AM
From cedar savage:
The way people treat you is simply an indicator of attitudes towards real estate agents in general. Interesting viewpoint. One might also suggest that it is an indicator of how much some people are willing to 'choose' when to be ethical and when not to be ethical - making that choice based on how they feel about some profession.
"Relativistic" ethics, rather than "absolute".

uncas
01-20-2006, 10:23 AM
One bad agent sticks in one's mind longer than 100 good ones..

My agent...when I sold my house in NC....was...to me...extremely unethical.
I was not living in NC when I sold it...I do not know how many times he showed it. If at all...Oh yes, he sent me e-mails saying he had shgowed it x number of times...but...
After a year.....he offered to buy it below value...knowing that I just wanted to get rid of it..To top it off, I had to pay him commission...
Now that agent...I remember...

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 10:25 AM
Billy Bones - you don't know me I don't know you. I do a professional job you don't like me fine I can deal with that. But you don't know what your talking about. Thank you for your useless input and snipe, it was very helpful. :rolleyes:

Del Lansing
01-20-2006, 10:26 AM
If for any reason I was dissatisfied... perhaps by his style, manner, attitude, etc... I wouldn't feel in any way remiss in walking down the street and buying the same property from a broker who I felt gave me a better buying experience. Style, manner, attitude would come into play????

Popeye
01-20-2006, 10:26 AM
i bought a house a little while back and 98% of the work in research , drive-bys and market comparisons i did myself , in the end the agent got us thru a few sticky issues to deal with , but frankly was not empowered to help with really critical problems , more or less hand-holding and punching bag help , not genuine professional service and in the end he got his commish all right , but to this day i don't know what for

[ 01-20-2006, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: popeye ]

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 10:27 AM
Norman, a used car analogy is very far off the mark :( :rolleyes:

I do not play used car games. I honestly try to match the person with the home and work with them in a fai, honest, professional way. I secure favorable mortgage terms for them. I provide every little service they could think of from a good lawn guy to the best nursery school for their kids. I arrange meetings with principals of schools and activities that would be far above the call of duty for any other salesman. Because I'm a professional and I do everything I can for my customers.

[ 01-20-2006, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

cedar savage
01-20-2006, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Uncle Duke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> From cedar savage:
The way people treat you is simply an indicator of attitudes towards real estate agents in general. Interesting viewpoint. One might also suggest that it is an indicator of how much some people are willing to 'choose' when to be ethical and when not to be ethical - making that choice based on how they feel about some profession.
"Relativistic" ethics, rather than "absolute".</font>[/QUOTE]Joe's ethics have come into question before. He seriously upset someone in his own office doing the same thing he's ranting about here having been done to him. What's absolute is Joe feeling he had the right to do what he's now complaining about. It is a perfect example of relativistic ethics.

Don't lecture me on ethics when the phrase real estate agent is within 100 words of the word ethics. Actually, don't lecture me on ethics, period.

LeeG
01-20-2006, 10:31 AM
time for serenity prayer,,,you can't control the guy with the money.

Paul Pless
01-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Joe,

Generally, don't you work for the seller?

Paul

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-20-2006, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE]I do not play used car games. [/QUOTE

Funny, neither did I, when I sold cars. Anyway..

Joe, your ethics aren't in question with me. ;)

Personally, if someone doubts my integrity as a salesperson, I tell them to deal with someone else. I wouldn't buy from someone I didn't feel comfortable with. I've told people that more than once, and I've told people that wanted to deal with me to go elsewhere too. ;)

[ 01-20-2006, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

PatCox
01-20-2006, 10:36 AM
There is law in New Jersey, and its clear that claims by a jilted realtor can be won.

Further, in New Jersey, the listing realtor has a statutory lien for the commission (the right of a participating realtor is determined by the terms of the MLS agreement), and an attorney, knowing there is a broker standing there asserting the right to a commission, would be unable to certify that the buyer is receiving clear title, and would therefore be braking a lot of legal duties, and if there is a title insurance company and a lender involved, he would likely be committing fraud against them.

ljb5
01-20-2006, 10:38 AM
All rants and criticism aside....

Why did they go to another agent?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-20-2006, 10:39 AM
The ethics of selling is simple...

service, service service.

A fair price, a fair profit

service service service.

Popeye
01-20-2006, 10:41 AM
RE is a tough slog and some agents are counterfeit

consumers are not amused

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by cedar savage:
Joe's ethics have come into question before. He seriously upset someone in his own office doing the same thing he's ranting about here having been done to him. What's absolute is Joe feeling he had the right to do what he's now complaining about. It is a perfect example of relativistic ethics.

Don't lecture me on ethics when the phrase real estate agent is within 100 words of the word ethics. Actually, don't lecture me on ethics, period.Your recollection of my last post on the ethical question is on all accounts incorrect :( You chose to make the story fit what crime you want to accuse me of :rolleyes: :(

Gary E
01-20-2006, 10:42 AM
Joe,

You said it yourself...THERE IS NO LAW...

Why is it so one sided?... borkers and I mean YOUR BOSS..puts all sorts of clauses in the listing contract and if and when you get a sale you inforce that contract. Now you think that buyers should also be tied to some sort of contract that binds them to YOU??? Try it some time... see how that works.. :D :D

Seems this forum is.... ALL ABOUT JOE...

PatCox
01-20-2006, 10:42 AM
Joe, this is New York law, its identical to New Jersey law, this is from an article by an attorney posted at the Nassau County Board of Realtors website, note the doctrine of "procuring cause:"

"The broker need not have been intimately involved in the negotiation of each term. A broker will be held to be the procuring cause where the broker established “an amicable atmosphere . . . in which the negotiations proceeded and generated a chain of circumstances that proximately led to the lease deal.”6 Where the broker has done so, he or she may earn a commission even if a significant period of time elapses between the end of the broker’s efforts and the execution of the contract or lease.

The broker need not establish he or she was the procuring cause, if it can be proved that the parties excluded the broker from negotiations in order to deprive the broker of a commission.7 A statement in a contract of sale that a named broker brought about the sale has been held to be a binding admission of the broker’s right to a commission in subsequent litigation between the broker and the seller."

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by ljb5:
All rants and criticism aside....

Why did they go to another agent?
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
And no it's NOT OK that your response is, I didn't know, or I did not want to keep bothering you.

cedar savage
01-20-2006, 10:44 AM
Send in the clowns.

PatCox
01-20-2006, 10:46 AM
Here is an in depth discussion of the factors which are considered in a procuring cause dispute, which, as this article states, is typically a matter which is arbitrable under the realtors code of ethics:

"What are some of the important considerations for the REALTOR® who is contemplating a procuring cause dispute?

REALTORS® contemplating procuring cause disputes should be aware that the points to consider tend to divide themselves into procedural and substantive matters.

PROCEDURAL CONSIDERATIONS

A REALTOR®'s right to arbitrate arises out of Article 17 of the Code of Ethics which states:

In the event of a contractual dispute between REALTORS® associated with different firms, arising out of their relationship as REALTORS®, the REALTORS® shall submit the dispute to arbitration in accordance with the regulations of their Board or Boards rather than litigate the matter. [emphasis added]

Many, but not all, procuring cause disputes are arbitrable pursuant to Article 17. Procuring cause disputes between a REALTOR® and a non-REALTOR® are not subject to mandatory arbitration. For example, an unhappy REALTOR® broker who perceives that he was a procuring cause (the "Complainant Selling Broker"), might file a complaint against the listing broker. The listing broker may have already paid another selling broker (the "Paid Selling Broker") who is not a member of the Board. The dispute between the Complainant Selling Broker and the listing broker is subject to mandatory arbitration. Unless the Paid Selling Broker consents to arbitration, any potential dispute between the listing broker and the Paid Selling Broker is not subject to arbitration. The listing broker who pays a non-REALTOR® a cooperating commission is exposed to the possibility of paying a cooperating commission twice: once initially to the Paid Selling Broker and again to the Complainant Selling Broker. To avoid this problem, listing brokers should consider paying cooperating commissions to non-REALTOR® selling brokers only after the non-REALTOR® has consented to future REALTOR® arbitration, if it becomes necessary.

A similar problem arises when a seller pays a selling broker directly. Depending upon the facts of the case, there may have been no contract formed between the listing broker and the Paid Selling Broker. Again, Complainant Selling Broker may feel that he was the procuring cause. If the Complainant Selling Broker brings an arbitration against the listing broker, she may be unable to compel an arbitration with the Paid Selling Broker (regardless of whether the Paid Selling Broker was a REALTOR®) because of the lack of a "contractual dispute" between the listing broker and the Paid Selling Broker.

Requests for arbitration must be filed within 180 days after the closing of the transaction, if any, or within 180 days after the facts constituting the arbitrable matter could have been known in the exercise of reasonable diligence, whichever is later. (See Section 31, Part 5 of the Code of Ethics.) The vast majority of procuring cause disputes must be initiated within 180 days after the closing.

SUBSTANTIVE CONSIDERATIONS

The Code defines procuring cause as ". . . the uninterrupted series of causal events which results in the successful transaction." The Code of Ethics goes out of its way to make it clear that procuring cause disputes must be decided on a case-by-case basis, without reference to predetermined "rules of thumb." The Code states:

Many REALTORS®, executive officers, lawyers, and others have tried, albeit unsuccessfully, to develop a single, comprehensive template that could be used in all procuring cause disputes to determine entitlement to the sought after award without the need for comprehensive analysis of all relevant details of the underlying transactions. Such efforts, while well intentioned, were doomed to failure in view of the fact that there is no "typical" real estate transaction any more than there is "typical" real estate or a "typical" REALTOR®.

The Code goes on to state "'Rules of Thumb', prior decisions by other panels in other matters and other predeterminants are to be disregarded."

Nevertheless, the Code does advise members of arbitration panels to consider, among other things, the answers to the following questions:

Who first introduced the ultimate purchaser or tenant to the property?

When was the first introduction made?

How was the first introduction made?

Did the original introduction of the purchaser or tenant to the property start an uninterrupted series of events leading to the sale (or to any other intended objective of the transaction) or was the series of events hindered or interrupted in any way?

If there was an interruption or break in the original series of events, how was it caused, and by whom?

Did the broker making the initial introduction to the property maintain contact with the purchaser or tenant or could the broker's inaction have reasonably been viewed by the buyer or tenant as the broker having withdrawn from the transaction?

Did the broker making the initial introduction to the property engage in conduct, (or fail to take some action) which caused the purchaser or tenant to choose to utilize the services of another broker?

Was there interference in the series of events from any outside or intervening cause or party?

What were the brokers' relationships with respect to the seller, the purchaser, the listing broker, and any other cooperating brokers involved in the transaction?

What offers (if any) of cooperation and compensation were extended to cooperating brokers acting as subagents, buyer's brokers, or to brokers acting in any other capacity?

If an offer of cooperation and compensation was made, how was it communicated?

If the cooperating broker(s) were subagents, was there a faithful exercise of agency on their party or was there any breach or failure to meet the duties owed to a principal?

If the cooperating broker(s) were buyer agents or were acting in a non-agency capacity, were their actions in accordance with the terms and conditions of the listing broker's offer of cooperation and compensation (if any)?

If more than one cooperating broker was involved, was either (or both) aware of the other's role in the transaction?

If more than one cooperating broker was involved, how and when did the second cooperating broker enter the transaction?

If more than one cooperating broker was involved, was the second cooperating broker aware of any prior introduction of the purchaser to the property by the listing broker or by another cooperating broker?

Was the entry of any cooperating broker into the transaction an intrusion into an existing relationship between the purchaser and another broker, or was it the result of abandonment or estrangement of the purchaser, or was it at the request of the purchaser?

Did the cooperating broker (or second cooperating broker) initiate a separate series of events, unrelated to and not dependent on any other broker's efforts, which led to the successful transaction?

Informed by the above, and familiar with the other rules contained in the Code, the REALTOR® will be well prepared to evaluate the bringing of, or the defense of, a procuring cause claim.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
01-20-2006, 10:47 AM
Well it’s a strange old game - you learn it slow
One step forward and it’s back to go
You’re standing on the throttle
You’re standing on the brakes
In the groove ’til you make a mistake

Sometimes you’re the windshield
Sometimes you’re the bug
Sometimes it all comes together baby
Sometimes you’re a fool in love
Sometimes you’re the louisville slugger
Sometimes you’re the ball
Sometimes it all comes together baby
Sometimes you’re going lose it all

You gotta know happy - you gotta know glad
Because you’re gonna know lonely
And you’re gonna know bad
When you’re rippin’ and a ridin’ and you’re coming on strong
You start slippin’ and a slidin’ and it all goes wrong, because

Sometimes you’re the windshield
Sometimes you’re the bug
Sometimes it all comes together baby
Sometimes you’re a fool in love
Sometimes you’re the louisville slugger baby
Sometimes you’re the ball
Sometimes it all comes together baby
Sometimes you’re going lose it all

One day you got the glory
Then you got none
One day you’re a diamond
And then you’re a stone
Everything can change
In the blink of an eye
So let the good times roll
Before we say goodbye, because

Sometimes you’re the windshield
Sometimes you’re the bug
Sometimes it all comes together baby
Sometimes you’re a fool in love
Sometimes you’re the louisville slugger baby
Sometimes you’re the ball
Sometimes it all comes together baby
Sometimes you’re going lose it all

Uncle Duke
01-20-2006, 10:48 AM
cedar savage requests:
Actually, don't lecture me on ethics, period. Sure. No problem. My apologies for touching what is apparently an exposed nerve.
But here's my take - if I go into an office and ask an agent to do things, then I have entered into a business relationship with that agent. There are ethical obligation on both sides of that relationship. Personally, I would not choose to ignore what I see as MY obligations just because I didn't like the agent's profession.
If I didn't think the business relationship was working out, I would say so and work to either fix the relationship or to terminate it. I would expect that the agent would do the same.
I would not, however, just walk down the street and do the deal elsewhere without terminating that existing relationship first.
That's just my personal feeling - not a lecture, by the way.

Paul Pless
01-20-2006, 10:49 AM
Send in the clowns. perfectly timed

ljb5
01-20-2006, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
And no it's NOT OK that your response is, I didn't know, or I did not want to keep bothering you.If that really was their reason, then they really are as dumb as a box of rocks.

But they went to another broker, so obviously they didn't mind bothering someone.

If the other broker 'poached' them, it seems that your complaint should be against the ethics of the other broker and the stupidity of the buyers.

If they sought out the other broker, it's worth asking why.

PatCox
01-20-2006, 10:57 AM
The criticism of Joe is unwarranted, and the critics are not informed as to the rules which apply. A broker who is cut out of a deal is entitled to a commission nonetheless, and in some cases, this is true even if he was not deliberately cut out. In this case, the fact that the customer did not switch brokers because they were unhappy with Joe, but rather because they "did not want to bother him" is relevant and makes his right more likely, though this may be completely overcome by other facts we don't know.

But he is right to be angry.

If someone came to me and said "I am interested in this house, someone showed it to use before and we want to look again, I would ask why they're not going back to the first realtor, and unless they said something like "we're not happy with him" or "we don't want to work with him" I would not take them.

capt jake
01-20-2006, 10:59 AM
How about ethics in reverse?

I had my house listed with an agent about 3 years ago. Our neighbors saw the sign and told me they had a friend who would want to buy it. I called our agent and told them that the person wanted to look at it, tonight! The agent asked if I was comfortable in showing the house, so I did.

The buyerg went home; contacted their agent and drew up the papers. The house was old the next day! The agents never even left their homs, simply filled out the paperwork. I did the showing, found the buyer and still had to pay the 6%!!! How fair is that!!??

[ 01-20-2006, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: capt jake ]

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by ljb5:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
And no it's NOT OK that your response is, I didn't know, or I did not want to keep bothering you.If that really was their reason, then they really are as dumb as a box of rocks.

But they went to another broker, so obviously they didn't mind bothering someone.

If the other broker 'poached' them, it seems that your complaint should be against the ethics of the other broker and the stupidity of the buyers.

If they sought out the other broker, it's worth asking why.</font>[/QUOTE]That is the total reason for my thread I wanted people to LISTEN UP because you would be surprised how many people just do not GET IT. They do not think about the process. They look in the window of a competing broker and see ooooooh pretty house, never mind that nice guy spend his entire sunday showing you that exact same house a week ago. :rolleyes:

Gary E
01-20-2006, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by PatCox:

If someone came to me and said "I am interested in this house, someone showed it to use before and we want to look again, I would ask why they're not going back to the first realtor, and unless they said something like "we're not happy with him" or "we don't want to work with him" I would not take them.Really??? you'd be the FIRST ONE to do that...

unless your not on comish...

Garrett Lowell
01-20-2006, 11:05 AM
I will state unequivocally that a good real estate broker is worth every penny, every time. I speak from personal experience, and I've sold with and without a broker. I've used the same broker since 1994, when I bought my first place.
As in every industry, there are honest, ethical, caring professionals and there are slimebuckets. Even buyers/sellers can be ethical, honest, and caring or they can be slimebuckets. It's not an industry-specific thing; it's a person-specific thing.

ljb5
01-20-2006, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by capt jake:
How fair is that!!??Seems pretty fair to me. You entered into an agreement -- and you honored that agreement. No big whoop.

In hindsight, perhaps you should have tried to sell it "For Sale By Owner" first -- and then called in an agent later if needed... but you didn't do that, did you?

George Roberts
01-20-2006, 11:10 AM
Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ---

Perhaps your clients who leave do not find you competent. Perhaps they have other reasons.

My wife has many clients. They all like her. There are lots of potential clients who do not like my wife. They go elsewhere.

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 11:14 AM
Also I should add out of conscience and ethics I always ask new customers if they have worked with any other broker. If they say ooh yea I worked with John Doe over at ABC. I tell them they should continue to work with John then. I honestly do that.

If they tell me that they had a bad experience with John Doe, and would rather work with me OK. I honestly do not know if I would be so kind as to call John and tell him what happened but I do tell people that DO NOT KNOW how the system works. I feel better about that.

Oh and as for it being ALL about me, yea some times I rant about my life, you don't like it my name is on the left side of the screen in the thread listings don't open it. But it is my opinion that a get a lot of responses because people enjoy what I have to write and or people like to dogpile on me. Either way if you post to one of my threads you contributing too making it all about me ;)

Keith Wilson
01-20-2006, 11:17 AM
You should not be allowed to go down the block to another broker and buy the exact same house I showed you. Sorry, Joe, but if I buy a house, I will buy it from anyone I damn well please. If you spend time and effort in trying to sell me a house, that puts me under no obligation whatever unless I have agreed to that obligation.

OTOH, I wouldn't waste a bunch of any agent's time if I'm not really serious, nor would I change agents on a whim. However, that's MY decision.

[ 01-20-2006, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ---

Perhaps your clients who leave do not find you competent. Perhaps they have other reasons.

My wife has many clients. They all like her. There are lots of potential clients who do not like my wife. They go elsewhere.AGAIN :rolleyes: I also have many clients. They all like me. There are lots of potential clients who do not like me. They go elsewhere.

This and many other times is NOT the case. The general public just walks into any of the multiple offices and go from one broker to another with out care. THIS case is about a customer who walked past another shop and did not want to BOTHER me again. :rolleyes: They LIKED me soooooo much that they didn't want to BOTHER ME !!!!! Get it ???

cedar savage
01-20-2006, 11:20 AM
Uncle Duke: Thank you for that very civil explanation. I basically agree with you about the nature of what becomes, upon the agent showing a house, at the least a form of social contract which should not be broken lightly.

However, all the legalese that PatCox's dredging up comes from a very serious need on the part of Realtors (as opposed to real estate agents) to self-legislate before legislation was imposed on them.

Perhaps the crux of the matter is that the buyer somehow felt that calling Joe would be an imposition on Joe. This however, would call for a need for Joe to do some self-exploration into why would a potential client feel they were "bothering" Joe.

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 11:22 AM
OK final comment :

This was a RANT - you all know what a rant is don't ya ??

I do not expect anything to change I do not expect a LAW to be enacted that mandates that if you become my customer you have to buy from me. Im just pissed at the ignorance and willy nilly of people I devote my time to. I know it's the nature of the industry I accept that it will continue to happen again and again. I just got flustered and howled at the moon. In the end I know I just have to suck up and deal with it. For some of you maybe you can see what its like and will treat a good salesman with a little more thought. For others it was an opportunity to throw a few jabs at the Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) punching bag.

Gary E
01-20-2006, 11:29 AM
Joe,

What is a client?


AGAIN I also have many clients. They all like me. There are lots of potential clients who do not like me. They go elsewhere.
YOU as a agent of the broker WORK FOR THE SELLER... and that makes the SELLER your client... NOT the BUYER...

How often does your client have more than one house to sell at a time?

unless you are a Buyers Broker... and that to me is working BOTH sides of the street...

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Uncle Duke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> cedar savage requests:
Actually, don't lecture me on ethics, period. Sure. No problem. My apologies for touching what is apparently an exposed nerve.
But here's my take - if I go into an office and ask an agent to do things, then I have entered into a business relationship with that agent. There are ethical obligation on both sides of that relationship. Personally, I would not choose to ignore what I see as MY obligations just because I didn't like the agent's profession.
If I didn't think the business relationship was working out, I would say so and work to either fix the relationship or to terminate it. I would expect that the agent would do the same.
I would not, however, just walk down the street and do the deal elsewhere without terminating that existing relationship first.
That's just my personal feeling - not a lecture, by the way.</font>[/QUOTE]I need every customer to be EXACTLY like you, Uncle Duke I ask for nothing more. And in return I will act accordingly.

RANT OVER.

Victor
01-20-2006, 11:37 AM
Don't they sign a broker's agreement?

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Gary E:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PatCox:

If someone came to me and said "I am interested in this house, someone showed it to use before and we want to look again, I would ask why they're not going back to the first realtor, and unless they said something like "we're not happy with him" or "we don't want to work with him" I would not take them.Really??? you'd be the FIRST ONE to do that...

unless your not on comish...</font>[/QUOTE]I do it with EVERY new customer. It makes me sleep better. It also protects me incase the customer has entered into a buyers broker contract in which case the other broker is entitled to 1/2 the commission.

Ya see good ethics makes good business sense.

Captain Jake. If I was your realtor I would have showed your house it's my job, no matter what. And I would have gotten you a higher price.

As for working for the buyer or the seller we have the ability to work for both. Most times I work for the seller of the house. I tell people right off who Im working for. I have to its the law and I make them sign an agency disclosure too. If I take on a buyer as a CLIENT and sign them up they have to file paperwork and a contract and my fiduciary is with them. most buyers waltzing into a real estate office are uncomfortable signing ANYTHINg let alone an exclusive contract with the broker they hardly know. So we usually go out as a sellers broker and if they feel comfortable with me I might change them to a buyers broker. I have done that a few times but not everyone is comfortable with that set up.

[ 01-20-2006, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

PatCox
01-20-2006, 11:40 AM
Capt. Jake, your realtor got lucky and didn't have to do any work. But when you sign an "exclusive right to sell," thats the terms.

If it makes you feel any better, there's two sides to it. You benefit by giving the realtor an exclusive right to sell. A realtor does invest time and money in selling your house. They would be far less likely to invest much money or put much work into it if they knew that someone could just approach the owner directly and cut them out. Not to mention that there'd be all kinds of arguments over who procured the seller.

In your case, the realtor procured the seller, after all, it all started when your neighbor saw the sign, I assume the realtor's sign?

cedar savage
01-20-2006, 11:44 AM
Anybody else interested in a Joe CSOH punching bag? Until DutchyDollysNevilley posts a real picture?

Peter Kalshoven
01-20-2006, 11:48 AM
Joe, to be honest, I disagree with the idea that you only work with one realtor, but would rather say you only work with one realtor on any given house. Two cases in point:
About 15 years ago, I spent a lot of time looking for a house with a very nice realtor who unfortunately was the wife of a VP at my new job. She spent lots of time with me, and was very helpful. Then I bought a house through a second realtor. Why? Well, I had located a house that we wanted to look at, and asked her to get us in. She was unable to get us in for a week, and then the day before we were to look, the house went under contract. 3 weeks later, another house that I was very interested in hit the market. Her response? I can get you in next week. I called another agent I knew, and he got me in the house that afternoon. We bought the house through him. Does this seem wrong to you?

Our last house, we were working with an agent, who would show us any house we wanted to see. He never once suggested a home for us to look at, we did all the research. We ended up going to a builder's model home, and had a home built, without involving the agent. If he had suggested the model, I would have included him in the deal. As he did nothing, he got paid nothing.

And, FYI, I make my living in sales. I believe you get paid for what you do.

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Peter Kalshoven:
I had located a house that we wanted to look at, and asked her to get us in. She was unable to get us in for a week, and then the day before we were to look, the house went under contract. 3 weeks later, another house that I was very interested in hit the market. Her response? I can get you in next week. I called another agent I knew, and he got me in the house that afternoon. We bought the house through him. Does this seem wrong to you?.Nothing wrong whatsoever I wouldn't recommend you do it any other way. ;) You contacted the first broker and they failed to deliver. If I fail to deliver then go someplace else. I will tell you there is some behind the scenes things that do go on. Like the listing broker can be unethical and make access for the other broker difficult. The listing broker of course doesn't have the same showing problems ;)

FYI, I have always made a living in sales. I believe you get paid for what you do. I do ANYTHING IT TAKES. I have had pool contractors meet us at a prospective home because I knew it was the customers dream home except it did not have the one important item on their list,... a pool. So I had two pool contractors waiting there to show them where they could put a pool and cost's involved.

[ 01-20-2006, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Gary E
01-20-2006, 12:06 PM
Joe,
Maybe you mised this the first time...
Lets try again....

What is a client?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGAIN I also have many clients. They all like me. There are lots of potential clients who do not like me. They go elsewhere.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU as a agent of the broker WORK FOR THE SELLER... and that makes the SELLER your client... NOT the BUYER...

How often does your client have more than one house to sell at a time?

unless you are a Buyers Broker... and that to me is working BOTH sides of the street...

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 12:11 PM
Lets try this again I can work for either the buyer or the seller.

There are buying agents and selling agents and I have done both. When I have worked on the buying side I act in the best interest of the buyer and have to treat the seller fair and honestly. When I work for the seller I act in the best interest of the seller but must be fair and honest to the buyer. I disclose everything and always work with the utmost ethics and professionalism.

[ 01-20-2006, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Gary E
01-20-2006, 12:12 PM
Joe,
Maybe you mised this the first time...
Lets try again....

What is a client?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGAIN I also have many clients. They all like me. There are lots of potential clients who do not like me. They go elsewhere.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU as a agent of the broker WORK FOR THE SELLER... and that makes the SELLER your client... NOT the BUYER...

How often does your client have more than one house to sell at a time?

unless you are a Buyers Broker... and that to me is working BOTH sides of the street...

Memphis Mike
01-20-2006, 12:14 PM
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just did what we wanted them to do all the time?

I've found that I have no control over other people whatsoever.

Other people are the main problem with the workplace.

Couldn't we just get rid of them somehow?

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 12:16 PM
Lets try this again I can work for either the buyer or the seller.

There are buying agents and selling agents and I have done both. When I have worked on the buying side I act in the best interest of the buyer and have to treat the seller fair and honestly. When I work for the seller I act in the best interest of the seller but must be fair and honest to the buyer. I disclose everything and always work with the utmost ethics and professionalism.

jack grebe
01-20-2006, 12:18 PM
Joe, sales can be tough and I know you are pissed at losing a sale,but if you go shopping, do you go back to the first store or do you buy where you get the best deal? All things being equal, maybe the sale was made by a relative or friend. It still sucks but thats life. Don't get your undies in a twist, move on. Just my 2cents worth

Gary E
01-20-2006, 12:19 PM
So why should a BUYER not work for his own interest.. even though they may conflict with your desires?

cedar savage
01-20-2006, 12:21 PM
Does anybody besides me wish that Joe would put the thread title in U/L instead of ALLCAPS?

MOM! JOE'S SHOUTING AT ME. MAKE HIM STOP IT! MOM!

TomF
01-20-2006, 12:22 PM
Joe, I agree entirely that if you've shown the house first, the client is ethically bound to go with you if they purchase that property. What happened here may have been legal, but the ethical obligation doesn't disappear for lack of legislation.

That said, we've bought 3 houses (and sold 2) over the past 15 years. I've felt that we got good service from the agent in 1 selling transaction and the latter 1/2 of one of those buying transactions ... We found each of the properties ourselves, after having a rather futile time trying to push the agents to find listings that met our specs. The listings were out there ... we found them!

I doubt that my experience is unique, and I resented paying a commission to someone for essentially putting up a sign and posting a listing on the MLS. If they'd brought clients, or networked religiously with their colleagues, or or or ... but that was the case only once. THAT gent earned his money, and was very welcome to it. But the others ... wouldn't get recommendations from me for repeat business.

With folks like me having that experience, I suspect that even the good realtors end up getting tarred with the other guy's brush. Unfair, but to be expected.

t

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Gary E:
So why should a BUYER not work for his own interest.. even though they may conflict with your desires?AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN :rolleyes: That was not the case. The buyer liked me and didn't want to bother me. He was walking by the other agency and waltzed in la de da, sheer ignorance no malice or upset with my level of service.

Their interest was no better served by going into the same set up with another broker. Ya folla? If your just looking to trip me up, and be a prick, fine I can deal with it but try to get the fact first.

Gary E
01-20-2006, 12:26 PM
AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN That was not the case. The buyer liked me and didn't want to bother me. How do you know he liked you?... he tell you that?... you ever tell a little white lie??

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Gary E:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN That was not the case. The buyer liked me and didn't want to bother me. How do you know he liked you?... he tell you that?... you ever tell a little white lie??</font>[/QUOTE]Here are the facts, you can assume what you want and I'm sure will. This customer and I had a very good relationship we laughed we joked I showed him everything and he was a very nice guy. We went out to lunch, and YES he did tell me he liked me. I'm a fairly decent judge of character and I know he was being truthful. I'm such a good judge of character I KNOW what you think of me just by your continued posting on this thread, and I have never met you. ;) ;)

Gee I'm good aren't I ? ;)

[ 01-20-2006, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Gary E
01-20-2006, 12:37 PM
I have no doubt that you are good...

Your just pissed that you lost a sale...

I understand... been there done that and got lotz of T shirts for lost sales...

Bob Cleek
01-20-2006, 12:42 PM
Maybe it's different elsewhere, but I see no way any buyer is bound to do business with any salesperson just because the salesperson may have shown them something. As said, the listing agent represents the seller. Problem is, realtors seem to think they can ride two horses with one ass, "representing" both buyer and seller. If the property is listed with the agent's brokerage, then their obligation is to the seller. If I walk in and want to buy that property, they sure as hell down't represent me! However, most all "professional" (bull**** alert!) realtors will tell me they represent ME too! Obviously, they want both sides of the commission! When I buy property, I tell the realtor showing it that I represent MYSELF and, thank you very much, I expect that the price will be discounted by the "selling agent's" half of the commission. I've never had a seller's agent refuse that demand.

And, pray tell, what is a "professional" anyway. Time was, a professional was a doctor, lawyer, or CPA. Now we got "professional" cops and realtors and insurance salesmen and who all else. Just another bit of marketing hype.

Frankly, Joe, if this is what you have to put up with from your colleagues, it ain't a profession, it's just a very lucrative job. Nothing wrong with that.

Popeye
01-20-2006, 12:43 PM
beer is the answer

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Gary E:
I have no doubt that you are good...

Your just pissed that you lost a sale...

I understand... been there done that and got lots of T shirts for lost sales...I am pissed that I lost a sale. But I'm more pissed that a lot of people think THEY are buying a house so who cares who they work with. They have no clue how we make our living. They think somehow we get a paycheck just driving them around so they can just go to the other guy and buy the house. It's the CLUELESSNES that makes me pissed. I can deal with the lost sale it's part of the gig but being told "Ohhhh I didn't know, I didn't want to bother you again" :rolleyes: Thats the killer.

FWIW the price of the home he bought was 1.5 million. Just to make it sting a little more.

dmede
01-20-2006, 12:52 PM
No contract, no obligation. Plain and simple.

And from my own personal point of view (this coming from living in the bay area) most real estate agents are over compensated for what they do. This is not a refelction on JCSOH, he seems genuinely interested in his clients. But around here every other agent is some stay at home mom who decided to start a "career". They have no sense of service and are just after a quick comish. If it’s too much work to please the buyer, they drop you.

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 12:58 PM
Bob stick with what you know :rolleyes:

Psssssst here is the deep dark secret of real estate. I cant make a seller sell for less than they want to and I can't make the buyer buy for more than they want to.

What I do is provide the seller with a qualified buyer and the buyer with the appropriate home they have requested. THATS IT. Yea sure there are a lot of little tiny things i provide in the service end on both listing and selling. But once negotiations start all I do is messenger the numbers its totally up to the buyer and the seller to agree on a price. I'm not riding any horse. I just bring a qualified buyer to the seller and vis a vera.

You want me to act like a lawyer and be professional in the same regards as I already act. Tell ya what have a buyer pay me a retainer of $2,000 and I will deduct my expenses and and reimburse you at closing.

Gary E
01-20-2006, 01:03 PM
Your pissed.... guess whut...
It WILL happen again...and again...

One of the sales I lost was for a boring mill...and to make it even more cutting, there were only 3 machines competing for this order... so my chance was 1 in 3... I had a VERY good relationship with the buyer... allready sold and delivered a CNC lathe in the $450,000 price range.

Now you may or may not know what a boring mill is but it was a slightly less than a mil in sales price... that hurt...specially since it was to be the first of 3 or 4 machines. And buyers of this type of machine will 99% of the time buy from the same builder for the next machine. Unfortunatly the lathe builder did not build boring mills or the "next" one might have had a better chance.

Anyway... that hurt...and this is 1978 $$
The commish on one of those mills would of made the intire year.

There are many more lost sales, you will also have many more lost sales... get over it.

dmede
01-20-2006, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
What I do is provide the seller with a qualified buyer and the buyer with the appropriate home they have requested. THATS IT. Yea sure there are a lot of little tiny things i provide in the service end on both listing and selling. But once negotiations start all I do is messenger the numbers its totally up to the buyer and the seller to agree on a price. I'm not riding any horse. I just bring a qualified buyer to the seller and vis a vera.
This further solidifies my belief that real estate agents get paid too much money for what they do.

Leon m
01-20-2006, 01:08 PM
The stars are not lineing up very well for you these days ...You need to get some good Mojo going...Joe . ;)

Popeye
01-20-2006, 01:11 PM
i know a place to get a good mojo

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Leon m:
The stars are not lineing up very well for you these days ...You need to get some good Mojo going...Joe . ;) Thank you that's all I was ranting about.

Sometimes you're the ball and sometimes you're the bat.

cedar savage
01-20-2006, 02:05 PM
Thanks, Joe, for the title change. It's easier to be more civil when you're not shouting.

I don't know what gets into me sometimes. I just can't help jerking your chain. It's not cricket, I know, to do it to you when you're already upset. I suspect you know exactly how I feel.

If you can get out of bed, there's hope. I thought that some of Alan's advice the other day on another Real Estate Sales SUX was pretty good. Maybe it's worth another read and some careful consideration.

PatCox
01-20-2006, 02:36 PM
I just bought a house, and thinking back, it occurs to me that throughout my search, every time I had a first contact with a realtor, one of the first things they said to me was to ask "are you working with someone."

That sounds like most are more honorable than people here give them credit for.

I still think Joe has a right to feel aggrieved at the unthinking discourtesy of the buyers. As I was searching, I was always aware that the realtor I was working with was spending an enormous amount of time with me. YOu have to be callous or clueless to then blithely skip to another broker, denying the person who spent all that time of the commisssion, after they found you that house.

In the end, I found the house I bought by searching the MLS myself, then I sent the realtor I was working with to scope it out for me before I drove up to see it (an hour drive).

I could probably have gotten a better deal if I just called the listing realtor. The seller was actually an agent with the listing realtor. A listing realtor will work harder to make a deal work if they are getting the whole commission, and they can concede more as well, if thats necessary.

If all I gave a **** about was my chance to save maybe $5,000 on the price, I could have screwed the guy I had a relationship with.

Is anyone here actually arguing that would have been the right thing to do?

I made sure that the guy who had spent sundays driving around with me for a month got paid for it.

uncas
01-20-2006, 02:41 PM
By the time this thread reaches some conclusion...the house will be up for sale again... :D

Dave Fleming
01-20-2006, 02:58 PM
Dhwoman need to get a copy of the Old Philosopher* record.

"Is that what's bothering you bunky?"

*aka Eddie Lawrence

:rolleyes:

The Old Philospher (http://www.mp3.com/eddie-the-old-philosopher-lawrence/artists/153/summary.html)

[ 01-20-2006, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

Gary E
01-20-2006, 03:12 PM
If all I gave a **** about was my chance to save maybe $5,000 on the price, I could have screwed the guy I had a relationship with.
Clearly I am in the wrong neighborhood....

But maybe it's nice to be in the neighborhood of those that treat $5,000 as pocket change...

maybe there's a hole in his pocket...

TomF
01-20-2006, 03:19 PM
It's likely that the realtor doesn't view $5K as pocket change either ...

PatCox
01-20-2006, 03:31 PM
Tom, the seller, an employee of the listing realtor, would also have an incentive not to hardline and deprive her employer of the full commission, and for all I know, there was no commission to her employer, so by bringing in a participating broker, I made it necessary for the seller to pay a $15,000 commmission she otherwise would not have had to pay.

Pocket change? Even when the market is $100,000, a 5% difference isn't all that much to haggle over, its not pocket change, but its just a dollar a day, in the payment.

[ 01-20-2006, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: PatCox ]

TomF
01-20-2006, 03:36 PM
You mistake my meaning, Pat ... I'd have done what you did. The commission is part of the price of the house ...

Finding a way to avoid paying it would prove more expensive to me in the long run. Either I'd see the realtor's face every time I walked up to my front door and lose the joy in my home ... or I wouldn't ...and a piece of my integrity would be gone.

Gary E
01-20-2006, 03:57 PM
Pat, wernt you the one that was waffeling on spending a few hundred on pulling the boat out to fix a leak that could of sunk it??

yeah.. like 5 g's is pocket change... right...

PatCox
01-20-2006, 04:02 PM
Its the budget, Gary, I allow so much for the boat, which is a luxury, not a priority, and so much for the house I live in. I just didn't have that much in my budget for an unforeseen hauling.

George Roberts
01-20-2006, 04:03 PM
Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ---

Perhaps you should read this and other threads you have written.

In many of them you are not a person anyone would want to work with.

Hwyl
01-20-2006, 04:07 PM
Edited to pay heed to Thumper's mother.

[ 01-20-2006, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Hwyl ]

cs
01-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Don't know how much I can add here, but that never stopped me before.

Joe, I feel that if the guy went somewhere else because "he didn't want to bother you" that there may be some underlining issues here that we don't know about.

Agent/buyer/seller releationships are indeed important. My wife is getting ready to close on a house with a guy from out of town. He had worked with another agent before, but she would charge him $1.50 a mile just to drive him around town in her Mercedes and show him houses. She also charged him for anything that she did to help him find a house.

My wife sent him big nice photo packages of several places and maps. When he came into town she spent all weekend driving him around looking at houses. All at her own expense.

On the other hand she has had clients that she has gone out of the way for and they ended up using another agent. Other agents in her office just say that is part of the game and all agents experiance that.

Chad

Dolly Varden
01-20-2006, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Billy Bones:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
If you are looking to buy a home and you go into a real estate office and work with a broker and the broker is competent and through and helpful. You should not be allowed to go down the block to another broker and buy the exact same house I showed you. Especially if you had a great rapore going and we went out to lunch and laughed and talked at length about your needs and wants regarding a home purchase.

And no it's NOT OK that your response is, I didn't know, or I did not want to keep bothering you.

Now you know!!!!

Real estate agents make there commission SELLING you a house. They do not make their commissions taking you to lunch and driving you around and fulfilling your requirements and showing you homes. So you can go down the street one month later and buy the SAME house I showed you. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The general public thinks that buying a house is like buying a loaf of bread. They can go to Foodtown™ to buy it but if Shopright™ is closer at the time they can just go in there. NO !!!! if you work with a broker once and you think he/she is competent and you enjoy working with them then you BUY with them. If you think they are incompetent then you tell them you are going to work with another broker.

RANT OVERThank you, mister broker, for a flaming lecture on how you think I, the customer, should behave.

"Honey, let's try a different broker."

"Yes, dear. How about one who can spell."</font>[/QUOTE]roflmao

Dutch

[ 01-20-2006, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Dolly Varden ]

Dolly Varden
01-20-2006, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ---

Perhaps you should read this and other threads you have written.

In many of them you are not a person anyone would want to work with.;)

Dutch

[ 01-20-2006, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Dolly Varden ]

Dolly Varden
01-20-2006, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Memphis Mike:
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just did what we wanted them to do all the time?

I've found that I have no control over other people whatsoever.

Other people are the main problem with the workplace.

Couldn't we just get rid of them somehow?that is why I work alone

Dutch

Memphis Mike
01-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Hey Joe. I've been thinking about this all day while I've been out working for these blind assholes I'm responsible for.

I know what the problem is.

First you post about SAD and now you post a big rant about your job.

It's Lady B man. She's put a hex on you. :eek: I think I told you this might happen.

You need to apologize to Lady B as soon as possible.

You remember? The belly dancing herbalist that you ejected from your compound?

[ 01-20-2006, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Memphis Mike ]

Stiletto
01-20-2006, 06:07 PM
Great post!
Joe isnt annoyed at losing a sale, he's annoyed at losing ANOTHER sale.

Maybe he could get part time work waiting tables down at the restaurant. ;)

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 06:33 PM
When the final numbers are in for the year I can say I have had a good year. It turns out more people than George Roberts chose to work with me ;) The last two months have been a bummer but hey thats life. Sorry some of you don't like me ranting when ****e happens seems the same people don't like when I rave about some great deal. I post I'm worried about money I get crap I post that I just closed a big deal and I'm getting a boat, I get some more crap. Ahh well you just cant make all the people happy all the time. Thank you all for giving me your input. One thing you can say is people good or bad like to post on a Joe thread :D As for dutch getting his jollies from those that snipe at me what can ya say but SOD ;)

MMIke my wife thinks your idea of a hex from LadyB is true and has been saying the exact same thing the whole month ;)

After I settled down and did my other work I went and worked on Dove it cleared my head out a bit. I'm feeling better now. Time for a shower and a well deserved dinner with the family.

[ 01-20-2006, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
01-20-2006, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
And we're off :rolleyes:

Someone tell me at what page in this thread it might be time to introduce a little Tolstoy into the discussion ;) Hmmmm.

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 06:52 PM
I LOVE Tolstoy
Do ya need a link? smile.gif

Karl A. Hilbert
01-20-2006, 06:57 PM
I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!

http://home.earthlink.net/~hilbertk/Karl/stuart.jpg

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 06:59 PM
:D :D :D :D

Phil Heffernan
01-20-2006, 09:10 PM
Awright, here's my $ .02:

In the Major Leagues, batting 300 is a freakin great record...

From this I extrapolate to life: 3 times out of ten, yer the BAT...7 times out of ten, yer the Ball...

So from what I see, Joe, yer still ahead of the game... ;)

Phil H

WFK
01-20-2006, 09:25 PM
What about the builder who spends 100's of hours with a potential client. Does this some how bind a client to a potential builder? Hell no, so Joe, put your ego aside and remember, as you once said, "it's all about the smooze", and they obviously saw right through you. Face it Joe, plain and simple, they just weren't comfortable with ya and for what ever reason, went some where else, get over it, there'll be another sucker along tomorrow.

Meerkat
01-20-2006, 10:00 PM
Exactly what happened?

There is something called torteous interference, but the other realtor would have to have actively worked to steal the deal. Might vary by state - I think what I've said is true in Colorado at least.

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by WFK:
"it's all about the smooze", and they obviously saw right through you. Face it Joe, plain and simple, they just weren't comfortable with ya and for what ever reason, went some where else, get over it, there'll be another sucker along tomorrow.WFK glad I gave you another chance to get a jab in ;)
You're not correct about anything but hey nothing I say is going to change your pre-formed impression of me so go on thinking what you want.

I have no way of ever hoping to convince the few on this forum who will hold on to that kind of belief about me to the grave. But those that honestly know me and have spent any real time in my company know thats it's not true. I guess I can live with that its cool with me.

ssor
01-20-2006, 10:12 PM
A young man came home and told his dad that he had been playing baseball for a living. His dad was a little suprised that you could make a living that way, but he was cool. The son said tha he was batting .600. Dad asked what that meant and the son said , well each time I get a chance to bat I get on base at least half of the time. The father considered this for a bit and said......... maybe yer not concentrating.

Paul Girouard
01-20-2006, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by WFK:
What about the builder who spends 100's of hours with a potential client. Does this some how bind a client to a potential builder? Hell no, so Joe, put your ego aside and remember, as you once said, "it's all about the smooze", and they obviously saw right through you. Face it Joe, plain and simple, they just weren't comfortable with ya and for what ever reason, went some where else, get over it, there'll be another sucker along tomorrow.Diddo! If you use a realtor, your a sucker, IMO. Redundant terms , realtor / sucker/ leach. Again IMO. No offense, just opinion , mine .

Builders get boxed out for alot of reasons , just goes with the turf.

Paul

PS You sound more like Chad every day , Joey tongue.gif

Joe (SoCal)
01-20-2006, 10:17 PM
Yippy more usual suspects dog-pile on Joe :D

Cool glad I got a new can of spray on Rhino Skin :D :D :D

http://www.viperalley.com/gallery/data/502/595Remster_rhino_skin.jpg

Paul Girouard
01-20-2006, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
Yippy more usual suspects dog-pile on Joe :D

Cool glad I got a new can of spray on Rhino Skin :D :D :D

http://www.viperalley.com/gallery/data/502/595Remster_rhino_skin.jpgI hear ya now Joe smile.gif Keep talking , we'll try to get ya out . Pee uuuw. Paul

WFK
01-20-2006, 10:45 PM
"WFK glad I gave you another chance to get a jab in"

Thats low hang'n fruit there Joe ;)

Paul Girouard
01-20-2006, 10:53 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
[QB]Yippy more usual suspects dog-pile on Joe :D

Your also free not to post such silly stuff. Jee what do you expect , us to just send you cash ?

EH WFK we better lay off , they'll think Island life is easy smile.gif Nah tongue.gif Paul

Phil Heffernan
01-20-2006, 11:02 PM
Cash would be good :D

Paul Girouard
01-20-2006, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Phil Heffernan:
Cash would be good :D Ya right ;) Paul