Done with my oak mast... finally!

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Well, lesson learned - oak is a bear to work into a mast, whew! When using my circular saw at a 45 degree angle and new blade to turn it from four sided to eight sided the saw jammed so many times I lost count. Twice the circuit breakers tripped! :eek: Oak is one dense wood!

Reason for the oak was that it is avialable in just the thickness that I needed - thus no glueing together of lengths of wood to be thick enough for a mast. Thought it would be a time saver not having to glue - wrong again!

Eventually though the quartered post that measured 2 1/4 square became eight sided except for the base that is left square to fit tightly into the mast trunk. Then the eight sides became sixteen compliments of my plane. Mucho sharpening of the blade I can assure you! Sixteen to thirty-two sides and then get out the most underrated tool around. The rasp. Truly a lifesaver of a tool if ever there was one.

Then time for the 80, 150 and 220 grit sandpaper. Despite all that working down it is still possible to detect a bit of checking - just the nature of oak, I suppose.

[Ian McColgin]

Let us know what size of boat and perhaps the final dimensions and weight of the mast. Oak is an unusual choise due to its weight.

[gaffman]

Ian, why beat around the bush.

[Ian McColgin]

Capt Pre,

As you may have guessed, most of us expect your mast to be so heavy and clunky that it makes the boat too tender and it may be a bit brittle and snap.

Moving from fir or spruce - the normal mast woods - to oak but keeping the same dimensions is definatly a bit strange.

Personally, I'd especially mistrust a solid oak stick that was not right out of the tree and keeping the whole tree's natural grain.

But you never know. Every now and then what looks like a really dumb move because it's not what we ever so experienced folk do turns out to work just fine, either because the prejudice was wrong or because the application was so unique that for that one time it was fine.

So, more info and don't be reticent to tell us how it all comes out.

[ken mcclure]

I can't wait for Cleek to see this.

[Scott Rosen]

It's not too late to use the oak for something else and build a spruce mast.

Spruce is a joy to work, planes like butter. High strength to weight ratio.

[John R Smith]

Are you guys sure this is not a wind-up?

John

[Mike Vogdes]

Captain Pre Capsize?

[Donn]

It's a 10' mast for an 11' Sanddollar.

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006777

[Bruce Taylor]

Glad you got it done in the end.

After advising you to stick with spruce, I started thinking about putting white cedar spars on Blackfly. I have the stock lying around, and at 50 cents a board foot I can afford to experiment.

It's good to break the rules, sometimes. I think I'll do it...the mast for the standing lug I've drawn, is just 11' and rather stout. I think cedar will hold up just fine, and it'll certainly be light.

[Ian McColgin]

Thank you Don for bringing that back up.

Given the small size, I shouldn't think that the weight will really matter that much - crew placement will overwhelm the mast induced higher metacentric anyway.

Reading between the lines and providing gratuitous advice for others to follow, I think Capt Pre worked too hard.

Easy way to a short (under 40') solid spar.

Glue up rather than try for one big piece. That way you can nicely flop the grain and make a good structure. Make this square to your largest dimension.

Any taper, most likely evenly in from the partners to the heel and a bit asymetrically above that - evenly off the sides and then a bit off the front, straight along the luff, can then be got out on the table saw.

Use the 7-10-7 guage to mark the amount to lop off the corners for eight siding. This will follow the taper just fine. Do it by plane. It only seems easier to run the stock through a table saw set at 45 degrees. Especially with tapers, it's both hard and dangerous and loud and will take at least as long as just whacking a way by hand.

Getting to 16 is pretty easy by eye with a plane. As you get the flats off, at some point it makes sense to take a bit of moderatly course stuff - like a belt from a belt sander that's either cut or even flipped inside out - and just rub that over the stock to identify the corners that still need to be taken down.

And finish.

So, hopefully we'll here about how well the mast holds up and all that.

[whb]

Hi Cap'n

Good for you. It is nice to have a step done.

As for the choice of wood, I think this was discussed in an earlier post and the outcome was. 1) You had the oak and that was what you were going to use and 2)it was a small enough boat not to be a big problem.

Let's face it, historically, most boats have probably been built with the materials that a person had available.

Howard

[whb]

Should have been added above.

As for the other responses. Come on guys, once someone has achieved something don't be such pessimists. There is far too much of that in the bilge and it is creeping up.

Howard

[ 04-11-2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: whb ]

[Bob Cleek]

Yea, I saw it. LOL The important fact is that he's already done it, so, I guess, there's no point in adding to his pain. It's like ugly women. If you and your buddy see one walking down the street, it's fine to say, "Boy, is that sure one UGLY woman!" and have a good laugh about it. On the other hand, if your buddy marries a really ugly woman, you just refer to her as "his wife" and leave it at that! LOL

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Well! First my thanks to whb for some affirmation but as to the rest... Thanks for the candor - that's where the value is on a forum like this anyway but, man... nice of at least whb to cut me a bit of slack. Right you are - the boat itself weighs 110 pounds or so without the mast.

I have since talked to Arch (designer) and he thought oak would add more weight than a softwood like spruce. He echoed what you guys said but was more circumspect, "Uh, (long pause here) oak (another pause) would not have been my first choice for a mast."

You guys got me thinking, "just how heavy is this thing anyway?" I dragged the ten foot mast out for some sunshine and stood it up on the bathroom scale on the driveway. It weighs 38 pounds. More than I thought but hey, that just means it should outlast the boat.

Now I'm on to building the small foredeck. First the framing and then it is covered with mahogany ply. After that the planking is installed for the seats. Then on to the varnishing and painting. Doubtless there are many steps in there but with any luck I'll be done in a couple months.

Say, here is a question: With a mast of oak what do I make the spar out of for the sprit rig? Hate to add even MORE weight so need it be of oak to match or perhaps ash?

Thanks for your help, a novice can use all that is available. By the way, the mast? I was pulling your chain - it weighs ten pounds. Arch said oak would be 1/3 heavier than a softwood, so I'm carrying an extra three pounds or so because it is oak - no biggy.

Captain Pre-Capsize

[ 04-11-2003, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Captain Pre-Capsize ]

[Donn]

Boy, cap...your neighbors must really wonder about you! Weighing a mast on a bathroom scale in the driveway? In broad daylight? :eek:

[NormMessinger]

Nah, the material in the mast has little or no bearing on what you use for the other spars. The sprit on one of my boats, 75 sq.ft. sail, is ripped from a lumber yard grade 2x4. There is even a couple of tight knots it the thing. I have not sailed it hard but so far so good. Now if I had time on my hands I might make it hollow, birds mouth style, but that would only save a few ounces in a spar that small in diameter. Get a SPF two by and have at it.

[Bruce Taylor]

By the way, the mast? I was pulling your chain - it weighs ten poundsROFL!

[George Roberts]

Captain Pre-Capsize ---

I like the mast and your monologue on its building.

A picture of the mast and a couple rounds at the local bar would move everyone to approve.

[Carl Simmons]

Capt,

As a comparison, 38 pounds is about what my 27' Spruce mast weights on my Lightning.

Carl.

[Art Read]

... and my solid, laminated, twenty two foot Sitka mast came in at "about" 35lbs...

[Bruce Taylor]

Carl, Art...he was joking about the 38 lbs. It weighs 10.

[shadow99]

Is your mast step gonna support all that? Not to mention what the weight-aloft of that 10' oak stick will do. Bet she'll heel over real-quick in a light breeze. Should be a blast to sail :eek: :D ! Let us know how it goes.

Rick

[Scott Rosen]

This goes beyond logic. The Sea Gods are going to be mad, and all of you know it.

[Leon m]

Capt.P.Cap
Take a 16 oz.hammer in one hand and a
5 lb.hammer in the other,swing them over your head a few times with your arms
straight out ,then see what arm you can stop faster.I know the weight of oak vs.
fir doesn't seem so great but under a stiff
breeze and a sloppy jibe you'll be changing
your handle to just Captain Capsize.
fir/ash don't cost that much and a mast
that size isn't alot of work.IMHO I'd start
over.
sorry...but I think you would be happier
in the long run.
Good luck !

[Bruce Taylor]

O.K., let's think about this.

According to Skene, white oak weighs about 53 lbs./cu. ft. Douglas fir weighs ~32 lbs / cu ft.

So, in making his 10 lb mast out of oak instead of fir Capt. Pre-cap has added about 4 lbs to the total weight of the spar (assuming he built to the diameter specified for a normal softwood spar).

That four pounds is not all sitting at the top of the mast, but distributed throughout (actually, much of the added weight will be concentrated in the lower middle, but let's pretend we're dealing with a cylinder.

The mast is just 10 feet long, so, with 4 lbs distributed throughout we've added somewhere in the neighbourhood of 25 foot-pounds of moment to the spar. (Correct me if I've bungled the math...not only am I not an engineer, I'm something like the opposite of an engineer, LOL).

Sooo, if I understand the principles at work here...to compensate for the moment added to the mast, Capt. Pre-Capsize (whose upper body must be around 3' in length) will have to carry an 8 1/2 lb. weight on his on his head, when hiking out. Correct?

My recommendation, then, is that he go sailing with a very large Polish sausage clenched between his teeth.

[NormMessinger]

Yummy!

Go sailing Capt'n. It tastes like you'll be OAKay.

[Captain Pre-Capsize]

Well, I've rethought this entire thing and here is what I've come up with:

1. Forget the sail rig altogether and just ROW the thing. Better exercise anyway.

2. Keep the sail rig but compensate for the added weight of the mast by adding ballast down low - real low. I'll bolt my anchor onto the bottom of the centerboard to counter all of the perceived excess added weight of the oak mast above. It will always be out of sight and make the boat safer - what more could you ask for? Perhaps a bit difficult to GET to when I need it but no solution is perfect.

3. Forget the Polish sausages and go with Packer Brats - impregnated with jalapeno and cheddar cheese. It is prudent to have something aboard anyway for when (not if!) I am shipwrecked. If anything is to pass my lips it needs to be ZESTY!

[Leon m]

Originally posted by Captain Pre-Capsize:
3. Forget the Polish sausages and go with Packer Brats - impregnated with jalapeno and cheddar cheese. It is prudent to have something aboard anyway for when (not if!) I am shipwrecked. If anything is to pass my lips it needs to be ZESTY!Now your talking..."Packer Brats"!Now thats
a salution to any mans problems :D

[harvey]

Congratulations on the mast.
Two points - one, as mentioned above, the run of the grain is something to consider - just make sure the grain runs all the way down the mast.
The other point is that oak or Oak doesn't mean one thing particularly, because there's a lot of difference between say water oak and white oak.
Good luck and good sailing.
Harvey

[Bruce Taylor]

Forget the Polish sausages and go with Packer Brats -You could just fill your hat with gravel...or balance the MSC catalog on your forehead...there are lots of solutions, really.