The General Belgrano(ex-USS Phoenix)

[Jack Heinlen]

National Geographic has a good documentary on that nasty little war of the early eighties. The focus is a hunt with side-scan sonar for the Belgrano.

It's interesting to me how fascinating it is, as a guy. The details of warfare are just interesting to most men.

For example, a decision was taken aboard the Brit sub Conqueror that fired the fish to use WW II era contact torpedo, rather than the more sophisticated wire-guided, modern ones. They interview the torpedo officer. Something to the effect, "I trusted the Mark 8 to work, not so the Mark 24. In all our practice runs the Mark 24 didn't explode once." He also pointed out that the very idea of firing a torpedo in anger was not a part of the ethos aboard that sub. Practice, yes, but actually trying to sink a ship? nope.

Work they did. Two hits out of three fired, they blew the forward 45 ft. off that cruiser, and put a big hole in the machinery spaces.

I know that many men died, and this show doesn't minimize that, but I'm still fascinated by it.

If you get a chance the show is worth a look. A bit of history, a smell of the sea and of warfare. They bring together a couple men from the Conqueror and a couple from the Belgrano on the search ship. They are obviously a bit uncomfortable, but make some progress as the show goes along. They also have more dignified interviews with some of the primary officers.

I don't know who the narrator for them is, but he's just a bit much, portenteous when it isn't appropo.

P.S. The Falklands look pretty pleasant. Lot's of sheep and not many people. smile.gif

[Alan D. Hyde]

Well worth the Empire striking back.

An interesting place, I'm told.

IF you can entertain yourself.

Alan

[Jack Heinlen]

The Belgrano/Phoenix was a handsome ship. Twelve six inch guns in four turrets, staggered. The bridge was a half circle. A bunch of smaller guns along the rails.

The people who drew her had an eye. Balance, harmony, as much as an engine of destruction can have. She survived Pearl, and gained a rep as a lucky ship; through many actions in the Pacific war she got barely a scratch.

The stories of the surviving Argentine sailors were poignant. She was an old lady of the Argentine navy, and some of the sailors had made her home for twenty years.

They didn't find her during the time of the filming. She's apparently very deep, down there in the southern sea.

[ 04-04-2005, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[John Gearing]

I was in Port Stanley, the Falklands, in late January. The town stretches out along the bay, with houses and streets climbing up a short slope to the top of the ridge. That's where the houses end and the empty land starts. The folks who live there were pleasant to talk to. The prices of goods in the shops and food in the pubs was pretty much the UK standard. This came as quite a shock after the low prices in Argentina. Seeing the place it is hard to believe that it would be worth fighting a war over, much less that a war was in fact fought. And then you see the map in the tourist kiosk showing the locations of all the minefields still extant. I suppose that it is after all, the way an ex-CIA analyst told me recently - wars are fought for power and prestige, as a rule.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I recall a fairly recent interview with the Commanding Officer of HMS Conqueror. He said that when they sighted the Belgrano they communicated the information to the Admiralty, then, "At that time, the best thing to do to avoid detection was to get underneath the target" (Belgrano had an anti-submarine escort screen, of course) "so we got underneath her, and whilst we were waiting for our orders we had lunch. Roast leg of lamb, as I recall..."

[Jack Heinlen]

According to the interviews in this program they spent at least a day in the Belgrano's prop noise before they got orders to sink her. The skipper of the Belgrano said, quite plainly, we had no idea HMS Conqueror was there.

The entire time our secretary of state, Haig, was flying back and forth, trying to keep it from a shooting war.

Interesting issues. It was a little as if we decided, circa 1980, that Cuba was actually ours. Not exactly the same, 'cause Argentina was no US militarily, and the Falklands no Cuba, but the same sort of look to the map.

The Falklands were(are) aparently very British. As I'm easily entertained, I could imagine living there, even though it gets more and more difficult to raise sheep, these days of polyester. Interesting sailing grounds one imagines.

It was good to remember how worked up the publics in both nations got. I'd forgotten that.

[JimD]

I too saw the documentary. Intersting view of that war

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

If you nip across to this thread (http://www.woodenboat-ubb.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003808) in Boat-related, you will find an email from the Royal Marine who, as commandant of the garrison,in the late 70's, surveyed the coasts and wrote a yachtsman's pilot, which came in very handy soon afterwards, to our own ex-Para, proposing a singlehanded trans-Atlantic yacht race.