Running backstays

[Dan McCosh]

I am considering replacing the wire running backstays with modern, high-strength synthetic line. The reason is mainly to elminate some of the chafe taking place on the boom, spreaders, etc. I have some concerns about the lifespan of these modern lines, particularly chafe at the end fittings. Has anyone had experience in this regard?

[Ian McColgin]

Yeah. They are hard to splice. And the line can still do a bit of chafe and if you've any kind of wire to flying block, rather than wire right down to a highfield lever or something, then you'll not be touching the major chafe problem anyway.

I don't like the levers anyway and those who like them vehimently disagree.

If you're using a wire to some bit of fibre line and tackle, it's easiest to arrange it that the runner will lie right against a convenient shroud when cast off.

This can be facilitated by a shackle on the shroud and a shackle on the runner connected by a bit of shock cord. On most rigs, the aft lower is just about right. Just have the bungee long enough that when the runner is set up, the whole unit rides nicely.

The unit will fall when you cast off pulling the runner forward and out of the way. Between it's lightness and the elastic start of the bungee, it will run back up to near the top of the runner when you trim.

End chafe.

[John E Hardiman]

Big thing on synthetic runners is the heat buildup due to winch loads, not the chafe. Modern racing boats that use synthetic, use a heat resistant core and jacket, or you end up replacing them every race. In the small boat world, I've seen synthetic used with nylon thimbles to prevent chafe at the eye. And there is the whole new world of core fibers mixed and matched with jacket fibers out there, so you should be able to find one that suits your needs.
Another thing with synthetic as "standing" rigging is the end termination. Depending on how deep your pockets are, determines how much strength you get. Remember, modern high tensile synthetics don't act like older polyester/polyethylene double braid. So you might want to talk to a rope manufacturer (like New England Ropes or whoever Yale became) to tap their experience also.

[Nicholas Carey]

Assuming you're using coverless Spectra/Vectran single-braid or its moral equivalent, you're going to want to put a cover on the working end of the line...just to give the ol' hands, the winch drum and the cleat something to grip.

That stuff is slippy.

There's a weird variant of the moebius brummel splice that can be used to affix the cover. One end of the cover is buried inside the spectra and then sort of morphs to cover the spectra. You'll also need to lock stitch it to hold everything together until it tensions up and the chinese finger-puzzle magic takes place.

To get a cover, you can buy ordinary double braid and strip out the core....or....

A fried of mine at Fishery Supply here in Seattle was showing me a salesman's sample of a new product from one of the big cordage companies: the company (I think it's Samson) is retailing the cover by itself, just for this purpose, and sized to the line you're going to cover (Also perfect for making strops).

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The chafe is going to go somewhere, unless you eliminate the cause of it.

At the moment the wire chafes the boom and, doubtless, the mainsail.

If you replace the wire with low stretch synthetic rope, the chafing action will remain, but now it will be the boom, etc., chafing the runner.

I am not sure that this is an improvement!

I agree with Ian - the best route is to take the lee runner clear of anything it can chafe on, and secure it.

Unlike Ian I do like levers and I have the classical set up where the pendant ends in a wire block, through which a whip passes from a hook hooked into a deck eyebolt to a deck block and thence to the lever; by unhooking it one gets exactly the slack needed to take the lee runner to the aftermost lee shroud and secure it there.

[Dan McCosh]

The current setup is actually a double running backstay, with the upper wire at the jib head, the lower at the upper spreaders. Both terminate at a single block, and the whole is tensioned with two blocks at the deck forming a three-line purchase leading to a winch. I'd leave the tensioning setup alone, so handling the line wouldn't be a problem.
Chafe is maybe not the way to describe the action. The backstays can be secured at the shrouds, but still move a lot up in the air. Slacked off, the runners slap at the back edge of the spreaders, or the boom when well off the wind, and also slide back and forth across the bellly of the sail when running. The wear points have been covered witth brass strips, but I thought I could eliminate some of the wear and tear with line. I've seen this done, but haven't talked to many who have actually lived with it. I can visualize problems with the termination points, ultraviolet, etc. over the long haul. Don't know how long line lasts, either.

[redsail]

Sounds like a fine job for some Baggywrinkle. Easy to make from scrap line and served around the offending running backstays, these furry creatures will protect your sails from that damaging chafe and provide countless creative resposes from you when queried by landlubbers as to what they are.

[mmd]

The term also provides endless amusement for pre-pubescent boys when they realize that they can say it with impunity. :D

[Ian McColgin]

Have you a block or a plate where the upper and lower runners join?

It's hard to adjust a plate perfectly, but a block allows the mast to pump a bit as the load shifts from the top of the mast to a bit down.

In my years with Goblin, I did not have chafe problems with the rig I've described. I'd also siezed a hank on each of the aft lowers to allow the runner to be clipped there for long reaches and runs. Then the tackle could be set up a little and that stilled the stay completely.

My personal beef with levers is that they make having crew close to necessary and I do sail solo a lot. Gybing Goblin with the fisherman set was a handfull anyway - The forestaysail and mainstaysail would pretty much take care of themselves but the jib and fisherman took handeling and the main with it's five miles of sheet took careful handeling. To have to run around on deck retrieving the bight of the running back cable to drop on the snatch block and then kwahngg the lever was more than I could do.

With tackle, all I had was a kind of rotary motion from the cockpit thus:

When I had Goblin's rig to my perfection, the main was double ended sheeted to sampson posts at either side of the stern of the cockpit. The wheel on an edson was a box coming into the cockpit, so the main sheet was safely behind the wheel. There was a large and a small winch on each side of the cockpit for jib, fisherman and runners - two in use to leeward and one to weather at any given time. The two staysail sheets were on the aft end of the coach roof.

Bear off to wing on wing and get the jib over.

Now I'm also facing the winch that has the active runner so I drop that and keep turning my body and one knee in the wheel to either turn or hold it till I get to some main sheet. Haul like blazes letting it fall in a tangle-proof place by the helm box. When the sail comes around I just let her rip as the pully friction will slow it down just fine.

Now set up the weather runner and finish by bringing over the fisherman.

Counting clearing up lines and making all well for the next gybe, I could gybe six times in five minutes - done as a test.

Important to note that, as with most boats with runners, the runners give some tension against a stay that supports a sail. They are not critical to holding the mast up, at least not for a short haul.

Runners are absolutely critical within a minute or so to control mast pumping and bending and to straighten a staysail's luff, but the mast won't fall over if you're a little slow setting the runner. It took me years to finally believe this on quite a few rigs, both in our family from childhood (the Narasketuck has runners) and friends' boats, like Wiannos and such.

There may be a boat that would loose her rig in a tack or gybe if the runner is not set quickly, but I've not run into one yet.

G'luck

[Mike Field]

It's a pleasure to read your posts, Ian. Thanks.

Mike
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[ 10-03-2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Mike Field ]

[John B]

Do you have a standing backstay as well?

[Dan McCosh]

There is a standing backstay to the masthead. The rig is 7/8 fractional, with jumpers at the jib head. In light to moderate winds, the backstays are optional, mainly for tensioning the jib. In heavy seas, they are the primary support, and stabilize the mast as well.