Khaya "Mahogany"?

[Dave B]

I am ready to order lumber and plywood for a 26' Bartender, but I'm finding this is a very confusing process. The plans call for quite a bit of mahogany for frames, deck beams, etc. and some of the lumber dealers are recommending Khaya Mahogany (lumber and plywood). It's about 2/3rds the price of Honduras Mahogany. When I googe it I find that although there are a lot of related species, it's generally also known as African Mahogany. The sites also say it's good for boat use.

What's the experience of the group?

Dave B

[John Meachen]

I have used Khaya plywood and found it very good.It has been a long while since I last saw any but I have never seen the solid form.I would expect it to be equally good.Most of the mahogany I have seen in the last few years has been Brazilian and your conscience may require that you verify the source of it as sustainable.

[Al Owen]

Dave B: I was informed today from a supplier in Seattle that Mahoganies from the Americas has not been able to be imported into the U.S.A. for the last two years, which explainers why Bruynzeel no longer brings in Superhetch into the U.S. market. If you ask them at Edensaw what the best material for your keelson is, they will tell you that it's Purpleheart. As for plywood if your looking for rot protection, look to Meranti in the BS1088. Edensaw is due a shipment next week. True Mahogany is from the Americas. Good luck with your BT!

[Bob Smalser]

Khaya is fine stock, but it's much harder, much heavier, and isn't the joy to work that Honduras Mahogany is.

Look up their properties to compare:

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/techmenu.html

[Mrleft8]

As Bob says, and I'll add, It's also considerably more brittle, in my experience.

[Shortman]

Genuine ("Honduras") is still available though pricey. We use it regularly at my Architectural Woodworking business. African Mahogany (Khaya) can be rasty. Rowed grain, walks around when you rip it, hard to plane smooth. If you can select stock, and know what you are looking for, should be OK. We will be using Khaya veneer, with solid Genuine, for a couple of rooms we're doing this winter because Genuine veneer is not readily available. The two can match pretty well (we will be toning) if you, again, select the stock. If you are buying lumber sight unseen, ask if they have a "pattern" grade. That grade only really applies to Genuine, but some importers have started selecting a similar grade in African to try to please us finicky Arch WW's.
The spotty availability is due to the regulation & quotas of stock coming out of Brazil, Peru, Bolivia, etc.

[Dave B]

Thank you everyone. It appears it will work, it just depends on whether I want to pay for a little luxury.

Dave B

[Al Owen]

Then this begs the question, does anyone know of a source of Honduras or pattern grade Mahogany on the left coast? Preferably Washington or Oregon?

[BRobinson]

Yes, Edensaw

[Al Owen]

Edensaw told me yesterday they did not have any and suggested I use purpleheart instead.

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by Al Owen:
Edensaw told me yesterday they did not have any and suggested I use purpleheart instead.Call Pacific Western Timbers in Bremerton where all mine comes from. He's in the book and deals in music wood.

Purpleheart's even nastier than Khaya.

[ 12-25-2005, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Al Owen]

Thank you Mr. Smalser. I needed that. I have really been getting the run around on Hondouras, pattern Mahogany.

[Al Owen]

Pacific Western Timbers in Bremerton. I'm afarid the super pages contain no listing for this company?

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by Al Owen:
Pacific Western Timbers in Bremerton. I'm afarid the super pages contain no listing for this company?8800 Imperial Way Port Orchard

360 674 2700

[Al Owen]

Again, thank you vary much Mr. Smalser. Merry Christmas to you, your family. And to all, Merry Christmas!

[George Roberts]

Dave B ---

I don't think a local source is necessary. Shipping cross country is under $1/bdft for the quantities you appear to need.

There are often reasonable prices at:

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/exchanges/lumber.cgi

[Spissgatter W-9]

Hi,
I get mine across the border at: http://www.reimerhardwoods.com/, Nice folks to deal with. Will give you a discount if you spend a couple hundred bucks and ask for it. Make sure you get the right paperwork to return otherwise you will spend time on the bench until it is faxed.

Merry Christmass and Happy New Year folks.
geo
B'ham, WA

[Al Owen]

The hunt for Honduran Mahogany continues. Pacific Western Timbers is out until March!

[Dave B]

Al,

I just got a quote last week from Edensaw for Honduras Mahagony. They didn't mention they were out.

Dave B

[Al Owen]

Dave B.: I guess this is just the wrong time of year to be looking for material. I had a leed to Gilmer Hardwoods but they are not answering there phone. Hopefully after the first of the year, things will get back to normal.

[pcford]

The last time I bought pattern grain Hondo it was the color of orange sherbert. Ghastly.

In general, Honduras seems pretty depleted. Used to be wonderful.

I use African it is uniform but perhaps a bit prone to crack. Have to be careful. That said there are some pretty hellacious curves around the front of a Chris speedboat.

[guillemot]

The Rainforest Action Network lists both Honduras and African mahoganies on their "What Not to Buy" list and cites major international trade, overexploitation of mature trees, and illegal logging as major threats to these species. They discribe Honduras Mahogany as "Seriously Endangered".
RAN Endangered Tree Species List (http://www.ran.org/ran_campaigns/old_growth/endangered_trees.html)

While mahogany is beautiful stuff and is a pleasure to work with, perhaps its general unavilablilty should be appreciated as a sign that we should consider utilizing a different resource. Honduras Mahogany (Swietenia humillis, S. macrophylla, and S. mahogoni) are all listed on appendix 2 of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) which the US is a signatory of.

"Appendix II lists species that are not necessarily now threatened with extinction but that may become so unless trade is closely controlled. It also includes so-called "look-alike species", i.e. species of which the specimens in trade look like those of species listed for conservation reasons" CITES (http://www.cites.org/eng/app/index.shtml)

While African Mahogany (Khaya sp.) is not yet officially listed by the CITES treaty, two species may meet the criteria for listing pending additional information on regeneration (Khaya anthotheca, Khaya grandifoliola), one may become listed on appendix two because of its restricted range and overexploitation (Khaya madagascariensis), and one (Khaya ivorensis) quallifies for appendix two listing because of its restricted range, "heavy exploitation and little regeneration after disturbance (i.e. logging)" (CITES web site).

Bob - does your guy guarantee that his lumber is from a sustainably managed source? What might you propose as an alternative lumber for this type of construction?

Jeff

[ 12-27-2005, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: guillemot ]