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View Full Version : "Conservatives" in the bilge...



George.
09-17-2004, 07:27 AM
... are not being coherent.

A survey of recent posts reveals that most "conservatives" here agree that:

- individuals should fend for themselves;
- the poor should fend for themselves;
- the unemployed should fend for themselves;
- Darfour villagers should fend for themselves;
- Meerkat should fend for himself;
- foxes and deer should fend for themselves;
- people should have guns so that they can defend themselves;

BUT

Iraqis should not be left to fend for themselves. They should be actively helped, using US tax money and volunteers' lives, regardless of cost, even if they don't want help, both to get rid of Saddam and to put their country back together.

Helping Iraqis now seems to be the primary justification put forth for the US "intervention."

Why not just let them pick themselves up by their own bootstraps, like everyone else?

Of course the so-called "liberals" here are inconsistent too. But that does not justify the inconsistency. I'd like to hear from the conservatives.

Donn
09-17-2004, 07:31 AM
This conservative thinks your 'survey' is seriously flawed.

Russell Sova
09-17-2004, 07:39 AM
I thought you were puttin' out to sea in a leaky boat.

George.
09-17-2004, 08:35 AM
Donn, I didn't say "all conservatives." But if you care to check, you'll find that most of the self-described "conservatives" have posted in accordance to what I wrote.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
09-17-2004, 08:54 AM
They're just loud and you notice them more George.
Still plenty of good kind people from both sides here.

George.
09-17-2004, 09:02 AM
I know it is the loudmouths who get all the attention. But that is true in every debate. If the moderate ones don't contradict them, they can't complain if their entire group is cast as radical.

The recent attacks on Meerkat, and the incoherent arguments on the latest Iraq threads, led me to post this thread. I'd love to see some reasonable conservatives, of whom there are plenty in this bilge, come out and either clarify or refute. As it is, an independent observer of the bilge would conclude that most US conservatives are not reasonable. I know better because I have lived there, but they really have to make a better effort, for the sake of their own image.

Donn
09-17-2004, 09:18 AM
"I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in."

imported_Dutch
09-17-2004, 09:21 AM
The recent attacks on Meerkat show me the "attack" on meerkat?

JimD
09-17-2004, 09:37 AM
People with nothing the Conservatives want should fend for themselves. People living on real estate the Conservatives covet may expect to be helped along with invasions, occupations, increased security, economic reconstruction, and other sundry helpful gestures.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
09-17-2004, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Dutch:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The recent attacks on Meerkat show me the "attack" on meerkat?</font>[/QUOTE]http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=018334

imported_Dutch
09-17-2004, 10:06 AM
show me the attack. that looks like a differing opinion

[ 09-17-2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Dutch ]

Alan D. Hyde
09-17-2004, 10:20 AM
George, I'm not at all sure that simplistic and often misleading labels like "liberal" and "conservative" or "left" and "right" help to move discussions along intelligently.

Most thoughtful people just aren't that easy to categorize.

And, I've pointed out in many previous posts the specific problems I have with the labels mentioned.

If I had to lay out a Descartian (Cartesian) coordinate system for plotting political views, I would choose for one axis totalitarian or statist versus individualist. Another might be relativist versus objectivist. I'm not at all decided as to whether a third dimension should be charted, or as to what it might best be used to measure.

To improve our understandings thru discussion, the language we use and the ideas we express should both offer more light, and less heat. Obfuscation or misdirection should be eschewed. :D

Alan

[ 09-17-2004, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
09-17-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Dutch:
show me the attack. that looks like a differing opinionhttp://www.animationlibrary.com/Animation11/Jobs_and_People/Babies/crying_baby_2.gif

[ 09-17-2004, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

George.
09-17-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Alan D. Hyde:
[QB]George, I'm not at all sure that simplistic and often misleading labels like "liberal" and "conservative" or "left" and "right" help to move discussions along intelligently.

Most thoughtful people just aren't that easy to categorize.

Very true, especially regarding thoughtful people. But it seems that many, if not most, of the political posters in the bilge are not thoughtful - they just follow the party line (Reps and Dems - no difference there), even when it is contradictory. They a priori choose positions that match those of their party's candidate, and then come up with rationalizations to justify them (or maybe they just get the rationalizations prepackaged from their partisan sites).

This stifles intelligent debate on a number of topics that need to be debated intelligently. It is hard for thoughtful people to discuss an issue against a chorus of sheep bleating "four legs good, two legs better."

To be honest, lately this phenomenom seems to have intensified, and ruined many an interesting discussion. And unfortunately, in my opinion some of the so-called "conservatives" (but not the bona fide independent thinking ones) bear a disproportionate portion of the blame.