Whilly Boat Deja Vu All Over Again

[Meerkat]

Finally! At last! Hurrah!

It's my first boat and after having gotten all the great feedback in the S&G vs. Clinker/Lapstrake ply, I'm going to build a Whilly Boat! It's helping a lot that a local forumite has a small shop and is willing to mentor me! This will give me the chance to accumulate some tools and learn how to use them in prep for the big boat project to come. Also, something to distract me while building said bigger boat project!

I took a look at as many posts as I could find on WBF about the Whilly Boat and I hope some of the previous builders are still about.

Tips, pointers etc. are greatly appreciated. I'm really curious to know how many sheets of what thickness of ply are needed for the planks? Is soft wood or hard wood specified for the various bits of lumber, and does it make a difference if one decides to use hard wood instead?

[Meerkat]

Would it be possible to 'kit' the hull planking and other parts before starting assembly? My mentor lives about 45 minutes from me...

[shamus]

Good to hear Meerkat! In answer to your questions you'll need 4 sheets of 8ftx4ft ply for the planks,or 2 16ft if you can get them. I couldn't, though I believe they are made. The design calls for quarter inch ply or 5/16th- up to you. I'd go 1/4 if I was doing it again- long story. As for tips, your mentor will be alive to most of what I could tell you, but I recommend you have a good long look at the design for the rear attachment of the centreboard case. I modified the plan slightly here, and I'm happy that I did so. It might be a while before you get that far, but email me then if you want to know what I did- might be worth considering. Regarding hard and softwood, I used local hardwood which I milled a few years ago. The results seemed fine, though possibly a bit heavier. Good luck.

[ 09-15-2002, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: shamus ]

[Greg H]

Hi Meerkat, Good choice!
I'm still working in mine, figure on launching next year. I used 4 sheets of 6mil occumee for planking, if you are building her open at 14'6 and are carefull to plot out everything before cutting, that should be all you need. I usd white oak for the keel, S. yellow pine for floors, cherry and ash for the other bits, so far, so good. As far as "kitting out the planks" I don't think that will work. You need to spile each plank from the one installed above it.
Use good plywood for the station molds, if I was doing it again, I'd use 3/4". Have fun.

[callanish]

I'd use Occoume for the station moulds and good plywood for the planking.

The liver is EVIL and it must be punished!

[EdenRose]

Congratulations on selecting. That is the tough part. I agree with Shamus on plywood for molds, I used chipboard and it was not as easy to fair and plane edges. 3/4" is bigger than you need for molds, but the scraps will be used for clamps and the 1/2" and 5/8" ply clamps I made were too thin and some broke.
MAKE LOTS OF CLAMPS and wedges!!!!

Don't obsess too much on which woods.
It is best to use what is available (from your woodpile or from your mentor's scraps lets say). I like to use a good piece of wood that has a good story behind it more than the one purchased because it is said to be the "best" for that purpose.
On the keel, look at "IPE" or "Ironwood" from local lumber yards. It is very hard and very heavy and I believe it is less expensive than oak. The ferry system uses it on the pilings they ram the boats into. I used it on the dory runners.

Have fun...you will.

[ 09-15-2002, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: EdenRose ]

[Meerkat]

Hey guys, thanks for the input! I think even in my depleted state I can afford 4 sheets of 6mm okume! I know there's more to it then that, but that's the biggest part of the expense isn't it?

EdenRose, I sincerely hope to get your input on this too! My mentor (no real secret, it's Barett Fauneuf, who posts here regularly) has a fair amount of boat building experience working on her dad's 36' (new) wood sloop, but lapstrake is going to be a new experience for both of us. She is building an Eun Mara. Oh yes, and you're quite right about it being hard to choose a design. I could only decide on this one once I realized I should build a smaller boat before tackling something larger that I really want. I also decided that, since I like double-enders and lapstrake to do that (the s&g vs. lapstrake thread was 1000% helpful in that regard!).

Shamus, I would definately be interested in the c/b case mod you made.

Greg, I'm going to build the fore and aft decks for the flotation and storage. Do you have any more recent pics of your progress to add to your imagestation folio?

I'm going to build the gunter sloop rigged version, but I did write off asking if it would be possible to build a gaff yawl version (lug rig is a turn off for me, so not interested in the lug yawl). I'll probably end up with the gunter sloop.

BTW, I discovered that Sail-Rite has kits for all Whilly Boat rigs. A gunter main kit is $175 or so.

[NormMessinger]

Oh my! Okoume plywood for the station molds? Surely you jest, Callanish. You are not thinking of BS1088 grade are you? And of molds that are chopped up and thrown away or forever stored in the way because the wood is just too good to toss but in such odd sizes as to be good for anything but another Willey Boat?

AH HA! Now I see where you are coming from....

Actually I did learn from experience that using the cheapest material (Waffer board) is not all that smart though once the boat was off the mold nobody could have guessed. How about we compromise on CD fir plywood?

--Norm

--Nomr

[Meerkat]

Norm, I was hoping you'd put your oar in this water! I hear you all and will use 'real' doug fir construction grade plywood for the moulds in lieu of wafer, osb or chipboard.

Norm, was it you that mentioned using 2 oz. cloth to 'glass a lapstrake hull? Sounds like a royal pita to put it over all those 'steps', but also like good insurance and increases boat life.

Anyone else (if anyone at all) glassed their lapstrake hull?

I already know i'm going for a white painted hull and probably (tan?) interior with bright accents like top strake, gunwhale (or a whale strake and gunwhale bright with a contrasting color between), fore and aft decks, seats, floors, floorboards... Hopefully, with the tools that Barett has, I can make the fore and aft decks faux laid decking by laying something like 3-4mm planks (Iroko, Teak (if I can afford it!), Apitong?) over a doorskin base and use black (or white or tan?) epoxy between them to simulate seams - all done on the bench and then spiled to fit the hull.

[ 09-15-2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: meerkat ]

[shamus]

Regarding costs, the planking seemed to me the biggest expense as I got started. Later I gave up keeping track of costs for fear my wife would see it. Epoxy and paint probably each cost me as much as the ply, though you may have more choices than we do in the underworld. And then sails were expensive, and rigging, and rudder fittings and... I shouldn't really post this should I? smile.gif

[casem]

Hi Meerkat,

Excellent choice of boat. I finished one back in April and have been enjoying it immensely. My only caution is that it might be smaller than than you think, so you might want to give some thought to Oughtred's Ness Boat if you need some room. With the sloop rig and the decks I don't like to take out more than one other person on my boat, but have had 3 adults and one small kid.

I used 7 mm okume for the hull (from Harbor Sales). I glassed my garboards only, before the next set of planks went on like Tom Hill describes in his book. The solid wood is doug fir for the spars and floorboards, yellow pine for the deck beams, and B. Mahogony for everything else. I'd probably do it the same way if I built another one.

[casem]

I had the same experience with cost as Shamus. It ended up being more expensive than I thought. I added the costs up somewhere so I can send it to you if you want. I also have some pictures which eventually I want to try to post.

[NormMessinger]

I don't think I'd glass Okoume 1088 plywood strakes. I would probably either saturate them with epoxy or CPES... chicken soup sort of thing.

Ludenberg Forestry Products, out of Ludenberg, ORegon, makes a product they call Superply. It has fir core plies but A/C tropical hardwood face plies. It is not much more expensive that fir C/D, has the same core ply gap problems but it is a joy to work with by comparison. If you can find that, I'd highly recommend it for your station molds

Joy to you.

--Norm

[Steve Lansdowne]

Regarding the cost. Know what makes a sailboat go? MONEY. You'll be surprised at how those various odds and ends (glue, paint, sandpaper, hardware, line, sails, sheathing, epoxy, etc., etc., etc.) add up, even without figuring in the cost of any tools you'll need to buy. But then, of course, you can also use those for the other 15 boats you build after this one. I used the best quality wood I could get for my Whisp, along with silicone bronze fasteners, etc. and ended up spending about $2500. Of course, the three 16 foot eight quarter slabs of Sitka spruce accounted for nearly 25% of that total. ENJOY.

[EdenRose]

I glassed over the bottom and garboard plank of my lapstrake before going on to the next planks. It made an easy trim of the fabric. I had thought
that it would be tough to bevel the land, but a sharp plane goes right through the fabric.
I used glass on the bottom as I intend to beach the boat a lot.
The molds do not need to be pretty. Just flat and easy to shape. Most lumberyards have really good deals on plywood with the edges dinged up. Since you are going to cut the sheets down for molds, that is not a problem. You might afford better material that way.
My Okoume (3 sheets 5x10 and 2 sheets 4x8) were not the most expensive item. The solid stock for
transom, stem sheer clamp, inwale etc were the spendy items. I could have used marine fir, since I am going to use CPES and paint.
Hope this helps

[Meerkat]

Well, the plans are ordered and if the WB store is quick off the mark, I should have them by Wednesday or Thursday.

Spent the evening chatting with Barrett about boat building and went to Home Despot where she bought a power plane and convex and straight spokeshaves for her own reasons - but I'll get to see what she does with them and use them!

Does it really make any difference what wood you use for the timber parts of the boat?

I like the idea of glassing the garboards and keel area. Much of Puget Sound is pebble/rock beaches and that sounds pretty abrasive.

After discussions in another thread, I'm leaning strongly towards meranti in lieu of okume. The weight difference per sq. ft. is negligable and it's said to be stronger and somewhat less rot resistant (to the extent that most tropical woods can be said to be rot resistant, which isn't very).

[dale o]

Since you're already in Seattle, go to a real lumberyard for your wood stock. There's reclaimed and recycled clear, straight, tight grained douglas fir availiable that you can use. Look for a yard that specialized in recycled timbers or flooring. NO HOMEDESPOT!!
Just my 2 cents worth of advice. Best wishes!!

[ 09-17-2002, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: dale o ]

[Barrett Faneuf]

The Home Depot wasn't for lumber, just a couple tools. That's what a field trip ot Port Townsend and Edensaw is for smile.gif . Yes, they deliver, but c'mon.. Port Townsend..mmmmm

-Barrett

[Meerkat]

Well, the master hath spoken. I finally tired of trying to pull the Whilly Boat plans off the page by force of will (the ink was starting to fade slightly, but could have been exposure to light) and read the introduction to Iain Oughtred's catalog. He suggests using mahogany ply in preference to okoume.

[DavePulaski]

meerkat: Cool! Looks like we'll be two first-timers building similar designs in parallel - this week I ordered plans for Iain's 10' Acorn Dinghy (aka Puffin) from Woodenboat - also expecting them ~Wednesday.

Already cleared out a spot in my cellar; now immersed in reading Iain's and Tom Hill's construction books.

Speaking of which: have you considered using Tom's method? I haven't made up my mind yet.

Regarding lumber for the solid wood bits: I intend to use SA Mahogany for everything, except perhaps white oak for the keel. (I fortunately have an excellent small hardwood lumber mill in my home town). Oh, and spruce or fir for the spars, obviously. Mahogany is pretty light as hardwoods go, is easy to work, and is gorgeous clear finished.

Good luck!

[DavePulaski]

...something else, re: glassing the bottom:

I've been pondering this too. Iain mentions it in his book; seems like a good idea to for abrasion resistance on the bottom. Here's what I'm thinking: plank the bottom four or five strakes, then glass the whole thing (obviously filleting & rounding the overlaps so the cloth lays without voids). Then, plank up the rest of the way as usual.

4oz? Hmmm...

[Meerkat]

Dave, glad you decided on what to build. As EdenRose said in this or another thread, deciding which of the many lovelies is one of the harder parts of the process!

Be sure your stairs and door are wide enough to get the boat out. SWMBO might object to flooding the cellar for sea trials ;)

EdenRose also has me thinking about this stuff called Ironwood<tm>, and specifically the species called Ipe, for a keel. Hard as nails (literally, you have to tap the holes for the bronze screws someone said), heavier then water and very resistant to marine nasties. Seems like a useful set of specs for a keel wood! He said it was reasonably priced too!

I can't comment too much on glassing multiple strakes - sounds like a royal PITA. "Whilly Boat" has a wide-ish 'v' bottom/garboard, and that's most likely the only part that i'm going to put fabric over and glass, with the rest of the hull being epoxy under paint. His remark in his catalog about doing so for as protection against scottish pebble beaches hit the mark - that's my situation too.

[ 09-17-2002, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: meerkat ]

[Keith Wilson]

Glassing over laps is a royal PITA. The Whilly boat has such a wide garboard that IMO glassing just it would be enough.

If I was going to drag a boat over rocks much, I'd put on narrow sacrificial rubbing strips along the keel and at the first lap; just replace 'em when they wear out. The traditional thing is oak or other hard wood. Or you could use brass or stainless steel half-oval, at least along the keel where there's something substantial to screw into. I think the best alternative would be UHMW polyethylene, which will wear longer and make the boat easier to slide, although it's harder to attach. You can get it from McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com) - search under "UHMW".

[DavePulaski]

meerkat, keith:

Thanks for the warning about glassing the strakes... I thought it might be a PITA. I like the idea of hardwood rub strips... the Puffin dinghy already has rub strips at the turn of the bilge; I could just as well add a couple more below the waterline for a bit more protection.

My cellar has a standard-sized walkout doorway - I'm OK with anything less than 7' beam and 30" hull depth!

[Meerkat]

Hopefully Whilly Boat plans will be here tommarrah (with a nod to downeasters ;) ).

Meanwhile, and in case anyone who's built one of these, what material is the c/b made out of?

Any of you sailing them: was there a need for ballast? How do they handle? What rig are you using? I'm building the gunter sloop for sure, but I'm just curious.

Mr. Oughtred claims 180 hours to build - is that anywhere near realistic? (elapsed time, not calendar time! smile.gif ).

Of course, I'm somewhat ballast myself ;)

[NormMessinger]

180 hours, eh. Based on personal experience with a number of projects, designer estimates should be doubled for a competent, efficient amature builder. For me, tripple. From the first board cut to the last coat of paint, two weeks full time... no way.

--Norm

[Meerkat]

Norm, some of us mere mortals only work 40-50 hours per week. 180 hours is about a month of full time work smile.gif

I hope I can get it done in about 5 months with Barrett's help (given enough cash flow) and expect to be able to put in only one 8 hour day per week due to travel distance to the project and other considerations.

How's the hip feeling? I saw on ABC news last evening that there's a new experimental procedure that can have you in and out in one day - walking on your own power. Same ball and socket, they just cut differently (less) and avoid having to sever major muscles and tendons.

[Don Maurer]

I'm not the world's fastest worker, but I have about 1,000 hours in my Tammie Norrie, and still need to paint and varnish. I think Iain estimated 220 hours for the design. They must have longer hours in northern Scotland.

[casem]

You ain't kidding Don, it took me 2.5 yrs for my Whilly Boat, I'd say 1000-1500 hours.

Just a thought regarding fiberglassing the boat - why not fiberglass the strakes before you put them on? You wouldn't get the laps covered but you could put a big epoxy fillet there. Might make the panels harder to bend. But IMO only the garboards need fiberglass.

Dave, I used Tom Hill's stringer method for my Whilly Boat, and I'm glad I did (I think). However, I had to make four extra station molds to get the stringers to conform to the shape of the boat. Oughtred mentions this problem in his book and recommends that the stringers be led into the stems (but I got Oughtred's book after I did it the other way). Also, I did not clamp to the stringers when gluing the laps; I used screws. But the stringer method really does make perfect bevels on the laps and keelson, and is very good for spiling planks.

Meerkat - Oughtred doesn't specify a mat'l for the CB. I used white oak and so far so good.

Ballast - I don't think it needs it. But it is definately a different boat with two people than with only one. I've been out in steady 15 knots and 2 foot seas, and that's rougher than I like it (being a novice sailor). It can be tough to tack against 2 ft waves, and big wakes slow you down (more so when you are trying to cross a channel, for some reason). I can single hand it without too much trouble, although the sloop rig can be a bit of a pain to take up and down when I'm by myself. It heaves to just great and sails well even when reefed (yes I reef in 15 knots of wind). It rows pretty good too, especially solo from the center station (except the rig sometimes hits you in the head). I can't really say how well it points upwind other than to say that recently we sailed dead upwind a distance of about 1.5 miles in an hour, and that was at night and the wind was dying as we approached the shore.

I can troll two rods at a time, either rowing or sailing. I might be able to get two dummy lines off cleats but I have not tried that yet. If I'm sailing, the rowlocks make excellent rod holders, otherwise I just lean them over the rail. If I ever manage to hook a fish while sailing, I plan on heaving to to real it in.

I'd be interested to hear how the other Oughtred-boat skippers are sailing theirs, just so I'll be able to judge how I should be sailing mine. Any tricks for rigging the sloop would also be appreciated.

[Meerkat]

casem, you describe what sounds like sailing in an under-ballasted boat to me. Try a couple of sandbags alongside the c/b trunk some time and see what happens.

Was it you that did the c/b trunk mod on yours?

[casem]

It could be under-ballasted, or it could just be under-skippered. I think I'll try a sandbag.

I did not do a modified CB trunk and didn't have trouble with the one shown on the plans.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by DavePulaski:
Already cleared out a spot in my cellar; now immersed in reading Iain's and Tom Hill's construction books.

Speaking of which: have you considered using Tom's method? I haven't made up my mind yet.

Good luck!Dave, if you read Iain's book, you'll see where he has a method similar to Tom Hill's but with a lot less labor. Iain uses a temporary batan clamped to the land on the mould where the next plank will go. He then uses the same kind of guide stick attached to the plane to control the bevel angle, except it has a notch in the end to fit over and take account of the thickness of the temporary batan. All of this is explained and illustrated much more clearly in Iain's book. Hill's method requires that you inset a batan for each plank into each mould, which could get dicy at fore and aft stems (double-ender remember - easier at a transom stern). That's a LOT of insetting and would only make sense in a multi-boat build environemnt says Iain. I/we (Barrett and I) will use Oughtred's method.

Good luck to you too! smile.gif

[ 09-20-2002, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: meerkat ]

[shamus]

Casem, have you weighed yours? There's one on the Duck Flat site at 60kg, and I know mine is a lot heavier than that. It's upside down at the moment getting a last couple of things done before summer, and when my boys come home this weekend I am going to turn it over and finally weigh it. Anyway, what I was going to say was that I haven't encountered any problems tacking, so maybe the sand bag will do the trick. Iain himself often seems to ballast his boats according to a couple of his articles.

Re the centreboard mod. - far be it from me to imply any criticism of the design. I can't remember exactly what prompted me to do it, but I'll get the plans out and have a look. I know I went AH! when I thought of it, which means there was a 49% chance it was a good idea. I changed a few things- the front deck for one, and the sailplan for another. Kept the CEs the same obviously. Half the fun I reckon.

Re rigging it by myself. At the top front of the centrecase, I mounted a laminated "hoop" above the mast step. It has clearance all round of say 7mm, so once rigged the mast doesn't touch it, but it holds it up while I rig. Of course if a stay ever busts, it'll probably fetch the centre case out...I think the risk is minor. Putting the main up I use lazy jacks on the boom, which then clip off to the base of the mast.

[ 09-20-2002, 04:48 AM: Message edited by: shamus ]

[DavePulaski]

Meerkat, Casem:
Yeah, I have both Iain's and Tom's books. I do indeed like Oughtred's adaptation with the temporary battens for bevelling the planks.

I also REALLY like the alternative method of making planking patterns illustrated in Iain's book: instead of cutting a full-size pattern from cheap plywood, he shows a pattern made from two battens, fastened together with diagonal strips of wood. Each batten is temporarily fastened to the plank lands to define the outer edges of the plank. The diagonals hold the battens together so the shape can be transfered to the plank. No spiling, no extra plywood to buy, scarf, and fit. Seems like the way to go, at least in theory!

I'm not so sure about hacking out the overlaps from the transom though... might it be easier to just cut gains in the planking aft? That way, the transom need only be bevelled. I'm sure there is a reason Iain does it that way, but it sure isn't clear to this novice! :confused:

Going this weekend to get lumber & plywood for the building jig... yay! :D

[Greg H]

When I started, I decided that I wasn't going to pay any mind to how long it took, because I saw the process as important as the end achieved.....and I'm just slow anyway ;)
I built her without the stringer method, mainly to get more practice and experience in spiling and scarfing for the next bigger boat. I used a spiling board and made full size patterns from cheap ply, even managed to do a reasonable job of scarfing a couple planks on the boat (Functional if not pretty, I'm planning on painting her anyway). Beveling the plank lands isn't that difficult.

It does seem like a very light boat, and I was considering using the steel centerplate for extra ballast. I like the feel of heavier boats. Any opinions on that?

[Meerkat]

Dave P. I'm a beginner too, but it strikes me that if you don't hack out the overlaps from the transom, you risk having the planks too thin at the stern...

Greg H, I've been thinking about a metal centerboard too, but haven't a clue as to the pros and cons of that. Seems like a good way to add ballast though. I'm not even sure where to go/who to call to see about having one made up!

[Greg H]

Gains at the transom can be split between the two planks, taking half the depth on each. I did this for the gains at the stems on the whilly, to avoid having that really fragile edge to mess with at a point that is difficult to clamp.

[DavePulaski]

Greg: that's what I was thinking: plane half-gains in each plank, just like at the bow. You still end up with the thickness of a full plank at the overlap.

Metal centerboard does seem to make sense, but might necessitate a beefier trunk structure to support the extra weight. Personally, I'm going for minimum weight with my Acorn dinghy... planning to use an unweighted plywood daggerboard.

[Meerkat]

Dave, I can't help but believe that daggerboards are unseamanlike. I figure they're some cheap builder's quick and dirty solution. They just don't get out of the way when the bottom attacks your boat abruptly.

[NormMessinger]

Cutting the battens in to the mold stations aint that much work and it really simplifies the shaping of one edge of the strake. Clamp the strake, cut slightly over size to the two battens, zip around it with a flush trim bit on your router, and ya got a perfect fit.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid16/pcb87a3c9bfda2740049ecc10bd89e4b3/fdefa2a2.jpg
Oughtred's Humble Bee.

--Norm

[Don Maurer]

You can also cut your station moulds smaller than the specified dimension by the thickness of the battens and screw the battens to blocks on the moulds. This lets you adjust the battens easily if the lines are off slightly. You can use a flush trim bit on a router to cut the entire length of the strake without having to skip a section at each station. You also don't have to trim the moulds back in between the lands.

[casem]

Hi Shamus,

Weighed my boat for you (very approximatley) and it was about 220 lbs. Thats with 7 mm plywood, fore and aft decks, and fully rigged. I could easily be off either way by 20 lbs.

Also went for a good sail today and can comment more on performance. We got into a group of small boats and I can say that the WB is faster than a sunfish but slower than a laser, which you probably could have guessed.

[dale o]

Meercat, to get a metal centerboard made take your plans or a full size plywood template to a sheet metal fabrication shop. Decide how much you want this thing to weigh and determine what thickness you want...( like 1/2"). The fab shop can cut out the shape you need in a few minutes. Have them drill any necessary holes if you want.
If you want the edges beveled or rounded off they can do that too. Ask where to take it to get hot dipped galvanized. Do that and you're set to go.
Best wishes.

[ 09-21-2002, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: dale o ]

[EdenRose]

I second Don's plan on putting battens on top of
molds. I notched mine in and it added a lot of time and was not as easy to trim planks and it made making the mold much more difficult. I would
definitely not notch them into the molds next time.

[Meerkat]

casem, is your WB gunter or lug rigged?

[shamus]

Casem, I just weighed mine in at 262lbs rigged. Singlehanded I'm eighty kg, but usually have another 40 to 60kg crew. Sorry about the mixed units. Yes, last summer I sailed in company with a couple of lasers- they kept coming up to sail around me and look. Back at the beach one of them came up and said "That thing goes all right!" I guess he meant for something which looks traditional. What I really like is cruising past Mirrors rolling a cigarette while they strain their sorry stomach muscles.

[Meerkat]

Gee, Oughtred says a Whilly Boat is 142# (65kg) as an open boat without rig. Did you guys both do the fore/aft decks? (I am!)

Shamus, same question for you: which rig did you decide to build?

[casem]

I did the sloop rig. I might add a step for the lug rig this winter to have both.

[casem]

I can beleive 142 lbs, if you take away the spars, CB, rudder trunk/tiller, and no decks.

[EdenRose]

Meerkat,
Why do you want the decks? I am at the point where I have to decide if I put the decks on my dory as designed. Are you going to install flotation under them?

[Meerkat]

EdenRose, they are floatation! I don't think I want to find myself out in Puget Sound without sealed bouancy chambers! They will double as dry storage for jackets, lunch and sleeping bags if I ever go camping using those circular 'inspection port' hatches for access. You can see them many places, including the pics of the Whilly Boat on the Duckflat Wooden Boats site.

I don't think foam flotation is worth the loss of space. If you're taking water into those sealed chambers, you have larger problems to worry about IMO.

My other innovation is going to be to install a real (small) Edsun manual bilge pump. Those "bicycle air pump" style bilge pumps aren't worth the wood to burn them, and bailers are too much work if you're single-handing. With it installed under the tiller under the forward end of the aft deck, I can stroke the pump and steer too (my, that will look funny LOL). Saw the same setup at the PT Wooden Boat Festival, only the pump was installed under the aft thwart.

[EdenRose]

Meerkat, (Wow...you got a 2-pager topic going)
I saw a nice floatation option on a Herreshoff Pram at the PT boat school. They tied the fenders
under the thwarts when underway, so they are out of the way and serve as buyoancy. ( I also have one of their prams, and I am going to do the same)

I am also considering building my decked lockers and just putting kayak air bags in them.They are inflated bags that kayakers use to keep from sinking or to float kayak after they capsize and fill with water. That way, I can use the locker for storage if I feel I don't need the buoyancy and do not have to design and build an airtight locker.

[casem]

Meerkat, tell me more about the bilge pump. I want one in my boat and am looking for options.

[Meerkat]

casem, it's easy enough. The one I saw was probably mounted horizontally under a thwart so that an up and down motion would pump. The handle slips out of the socket in the pump, so it's not in the way when you don't need it (but do tie a lanyard around it so it won't get lost!).

Some pumps can be through-deck mounted, vertically mounted or horizontally mounted depending on model.
Edson Bigle Pumps (http://www.edsonmarine.com/sailboat/pdf/K29_68.pdf) "Under seat-riser pump"
Bosworth Guzzler Pumps (http://www.bosworth.thomasregister.com/olc/bosworth/pumps_1.htm) Lot of pics and info here and subsequent pages.

I want to mount mine so it's out of sight with an above waterline through-hull for the discharge - perhaps the Guzzler deck mounted model. Don't forget an anti-siphon loop.

[ 09-22-2002, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: meerkat ]

[shamus]

Meerkat, apologies for slow reply- the time difference I guess. So far as rig goes I built the sloop version, but changed the sailplan from gunter to traditional gaff. This has the disadvantage of needing peak & throat halyards, but gives the crew something to do- changing conditions require adjustment of the peak halyard for perfect set. I like the lower aspect ratio rig- just a personal preference, and one I'd been unable to indulge previously. I slightly enlarged the jib, and ended up with the CE at the same point in the lateral plane, but about six inches lower, and was able to raise the boom a little for extra headroom, without I hope spoiling the visual effect. The gaff peaks to make about a 30 degree angle with the mast, and I took the ratios of the various sides of the sail from John Leather's suggested perfect ratios in his book "Gaff Rig".
I put the decks in for the same reasons you mention, flotation & storage,but as usual, made a couple of changes. (You'll be wondering if my boat is really a whillyboat at all!) I swear the hull is exactly as Iain designed it on the outside! The rear deck is as per plan, except I put a rectangular wooden hatch in the top of it. At the bow the deck compartment is smaller than the suggested version. I was thinking that it would be good to be able to have the option of an unstayed mast and small lugsail in the future, but didn't really want to step it through the deck. It occurred to me to put in the fore thwart as per the open version, so that I could step the mast through it. The top of the compartment is about an inch below the thwart, and the deck is flat rather than following the rise of the planks. It is very practical from the point of view that a bag of goodies placed on the foredeck is restrained from sliding off by the thwart. Though I lost some flotation here, I plan to make up and cover some triangular foam blocks to fit neatly under the thwart, which can be put in place when I think I might need it. I'm frankly a bit dubious about bailing out a swamped whillyboat in any sort of weather, and plan to try it soon for the experience. Hope this is of interest.

[Meerkat]

Shamus do you happen to have any pictures of your rig etc?

[shamus]

Not good ones at this stage, but I'll see what I can do in the next few days.

[DavePulaski]

Meerkat: Dave, I can't help but believe that daggerboards are unseamanlike. I figure they're some cheap builder's quick and dirty solution. They just don't get out of the way when the bottom attacks your boat abruptly.

[ :eek: PURIST WARNING: this message contains references to boats made out of frozen snot. Those with delicate traditional sensibilities are advised to skip ahead now...]

Pah. There's what, like 170,000 Lasers out there sailing around with daggerboards? I sailed a Laser for a few years; a time or two I was a bit slow on the uptake coming in to shore, but never caused any harm.

A CB, on the otherhand, sort of lulls you into laziness. I hit stuff with the CB on my JY15 more than I ever did with the Laser. I would think hitting something with a heavy steel CB would be nearly as unpleasant as with a daggerboard.

And I manage to stay out of trouble with the fixed 4-1/2" draft of my keelboat; I think I can handle a 2-1/2' daggerboard!

You're point is well taken though; I'm not trying to be argumentative. If I build a larger boat (~15' maybe), it'll have a CB. A CB just seems totally ridiculous for a 10' boat though. I'm going with the daggerboard not for reasons of economy or haste; it's for weight and cockpit room.

In other news... I've got the strongback nearly complete! Hopefully, I'll start to see something materialize in the next few weeks that vaguely resembles a boat.

[ 09-23-2002, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: DavePulaski ]

[Meerkat]

Dave P, I in turn take your point! For something small and without much inertia, a daggerboard would make sense, particularly, as you say, to save weight.

Way to go on progress! Shows what having tools and space already organized can do. Sounds like you ought to be done by Thanksgiving!

smile.gif

[Meerkat]

errrr... HELP!

Looking over the Whilly Boat materials list, it calls for the following (partial list):

stems 1 3/4" x 3" x 40'
gunwhales 1/2" x 1" x 120'
floorboards 1/2" x 4 1/2" x 40'
knees 1" x 2 3/4" x 8'

This boat is 14'6" long! While the floorboard quantity (length) sort of makes sense as it's covering square feet of bottom (sole), I'm completely at a loss as to why it would take so MUCH for the knees, stems and gunwhales!?!

Did some preliminary wood pricing <choke> <gasp> and, of the woods quoted, the cheapest stuff was Meranti Mahogany and Purpleheart at about $3.50/bd ft! FIR and Western Red Ceder was over $7/bd. ft. and teak just over $12/bd. ft.! (teak priced just out of curiosity - i'm NOT in that income bracket! I'm not even in the Fir bracket!).

With the BS1088 6mm Meranti Ply @ $40/sheet (5 sheets for decked version), this sucker is going to be expensive - starting to sound like $1000 in materials, even before the rig!

<faint>

[EdenRose]

It sounds to me like you are going to be ripping some of the material down for
laminating up the stem, knees and gunnels.
That might explain the lengths.
Or maybe a metric conversion problem.
I built my boat all metric and I really enjoyed
doing it that way. Of course I had to spend a little on new metric rules and tapes.

[shamus]

The knees might require that much if you were to put in the three thwarts= 6 knees. Gunwhales probably 100ft would do=6 lengths. I can't really say how accurate the list was cause I just dressed up what I needed as I went along. I seemed to be forever looking for another piece to dress though, so there must be a fair bit in it!

[DavePulaski]

meerkat:

Shocking, ain't it? :eek:

I've got around $200 sunk in just my building jig so far. Ended up using 2X6's for the strongback bearer beams - just try finding a 2X4 these days that is anywhere close to straight!

I haven't bought a single piece of wood yet that's actually going to be part of the boat (not including a nice piece of 4/4 mahogany I already have that will likely become the transom).

I'll probably be going down to the mill this weekend to get stock for the hog & stem.

If you're going to use a tablesaw to rip strips for the laminations, as I am, you'll lose a lot of wood to the saw kerf.

Don't forget good, clear stock for the battens you'll need to rip!

Hopefully your mentor has all (or at least most) of the tools you'll need. I already had quite a bit of woodworking equipment, but I've still been spending more than I care to think about on tools for this boat project. Rabbet plane, a good #4 bench plane, spokeshave, a new jigsaw, etc.

[Greg H]

40' for stem...hmmm, yeah, they are about 4' long each, inner and outer, if you are scarfing them that would cover it, maybe a little less if laminated, and he includes extra in his estimates
$1000 sounds about right, might be able to knock off a couple hundred, depending.But you don't need to buy it all at one time (part of why I spread mine out over a couple of years). Don't forget to price epoxy, pattern plywood, cpes, sand paper, silicone bronze screws, ect, the little things add up.
No worries, she'll be apples! :D

[WWheeler]

What with the cost of plywood and epoxy, I figure that building boats out of real wood might have a real future. (Somebody quoted 20 gal. of epoxy for the Princess Island Sharpie :eek: )

[Don Maurer]

THe estimates sound about right to me. Iain states in his instructions that the sizesand quantities listed are the minimum you can get by with. I found that to be pretty much true. Unless you are going to get your lumber milled to size, I would recommend figuring a 25% to 30% overage. The wood is never perfect and mistakes/revisions are always made.

On a side note, I just got "Notes from the Shop", CLC's quarterly newsletter in the mail last night. They have a new boat called the Skerry. It looks like a cross between a Whilly boat and a peapod, with a sprit sail. LOA = 15' beam is 4' 6". It looks like a nice little boat, if not quite as elegant as a Whilly boat. The kit is $900 and plans alone are $95. They also have a 10% off on kit orders going on. I don't see the skerry on the web site yet

[Meerkat]

Don; I saw the Skerry at the Wooden Boat Festival - including 2 guys hotfooting her out to the water for a tet sail! Heard later that there wasn't enough wind - there was none at all! She was easily handled (carried) by the two of them.

Part of the problem right now is the 27.5% tariff that the US has on Canadian woods, thus the pinching prices on fir and western red ceder.

[htom]

Gunwale, 4 layers x 15' x two sides, 120 lineal feet (or 3 layers x 20' ...; you'd need a bit more for scarfing, rather than buying 16' or 18' clears.)

[EdenRose]

I am starting to agree with WWheeler.
I learned a lot on technique on my glue
lapstrake boat, but I don't think I saved a lot of
time or money over true lapstrake. I am saying
this after having spent a day scraping the
epoxy drips from the inside of the boat after
flipping it over off the mold. Using the Thomas Hill stringer method prevents you from getting to
most of the ooze inside while the epoxy is still wet.
Meerkat...my advice is to figure out a way to get
as much epoxy cleaned up underneath as you can after getting the clamps in place.

and... there are ways to get the wood
cheaper if you want to do a little work. There is lots of wood around that people had milled themselves or bought and have leftovers. It gives
your boat a little more story than ... "I paid
$100.00 for the gunwales." (which I got lazy and did)

[ 09-25-2002, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: EdenRose ]

[Meerkat]

EdenRose, as far as I know, the problem with true lapstrake is that they don't do well in repeated wetting/drying cycles such as experienced with a trailer sailor.

[Lou in Baltimore]

I'm jumping into this conversation late, but I built a Whilly boat about four years ago and love it, although I am thinking of rearranging the seating just a tad, as I find it a little awkward. I built the boat with a galvanized 1/4 inch steel centerboard. It's worked great for me and gives a nice solid feel to the boat. I've made two tillers, one short and one long, for use depending upon how the boat is balanced, how many passengers, etc. We get great comments whenever we go out, a beautiful little boat.

[EdenRose]

Meerkat,
I own a traditionally riveted lapstrake that I leave on the trailer in the sun, uncovered (which would help a lot to keep from drying out) and the only time it leaked given our climate was when new.I don't go more than a month between launchings.
Kept inside a unheated garage or out under cover
and occasionally hosed down should keep a smaller
boat such as we are bulding tight.
If I built a large (>22')trailer sailer I would probably glue together plywood, but I want to
try my hand at a traditionally built small open boat sometime. Seems a lot more fun and rewarding.
I guess the cheapest way to do that is pay
the Port Townsend school $900 for one of their
ten day lapstrake courses and be done with it.

[Keith Wilson]

Edenrose: Did you use a heat gun to soften the epoxy while scraping? I've never taken more than an hour or two to clean up the drips inside a small glued lapstrake boat, but maybe I was just lucky. I'm certainly not particularly neat, and I like to make sure there's really enough glue in the joint. Anyway, if you haven't tried heat, it makes removing epoxy drips almost pleasant and doesn't reduce the joint strength at all, may even make it stronger.

[Meerkat]

Hi Lou; Welcome to the discussion! Especially nice to hear about the steel c/b. I've been thinking about that...

How do you plan to rearrange the seats?

EdenRose, did you see the lapstrake construction demonstration at the festival. I think that was being conducted by the WB Foundation instructor. I noticed that each plank's edge or the seams (one or the other) had been coated with some sort of blackish-brown tarish smelling stuff.

[Meerkat]

I have been thinking about using the Whilly Boat for camp cruising (no cracks you lot! ;) ). I would like to be able to sleep aboard and have been thinking about making a modification to the floorboards. As designed, they somewhat follow the curvature of the hull and I was thinking of making them level. Any thoughts on that?

Also, in connection with that, would one of you with a completed Whilly Boat measure the distance from the c/b to the side at the floorboard level and let me know please? I'm in hopes that I can fit reasonably comfortably with my head lying aft.

[Lou in Baltimore]

Meerkat:
In regards to the seats, the plans sheets (which I followed, show fore and aft planks that follow the curve of the hull between the midships and aft thwart. It is not quite deep enough for my bottom. I'm thinking of widening these planks, and also fairing the curve where they butt into the thwarts so that it is easier to slide from the thwart to the bench (is there a technical term for this seat?).
Lou

[Meerkat]

Lou; My Whilly Boat plans don't show side benches - where did you get your plans? Mine came from the WB store...

My plans show an aft, center and forward thwart. Aft and forward thwarts go away in the decked version leaving only the center thwart - which I hope to do away with (actually, make removable) by using extra/extended floors/knees to support the fore and aft ends of the c/b trunk. I hope this will allow me to use the areas to either side of the trunk as sleeping room.

[htom]

meerkat -- why not write to Iain Oughtred and ask him about exchanging the centerboard for leeboards?

Maybe strangely shaped, laminated, curved leeboards that would be bilgeboards?

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[Meerkat]

htom, thanks for the idea - I'm not sure how it would look on this style boat. Not sure the Whilly Boat has the internal structure to take bilgeboards either.

The notion of camp cruising is secondary, but worth some consideration at this point.

[EdenRose]

Meerkat,
On our way to 100 messages.
I did see the lapstrake demo and I believe they were putting pine tar mix. It smelled like boat soup, which he believes in. It is probably to prevent rot in the joint. I was walking back and forth between that demo and the oar making
demo, so I did not hear everything.
The boat I have that he oversaw being built at the PT school, is coated inside and out with pine tar/boat soup, 100% bright finish and very easy to maintain.

I did use a hot gun and it did speed things up.
I used it on low as I was worried about
breaking down the epoxy left in the joint. On a
16 foot boat with I had over 150 feet of seam
to clean up, plus stem and transom. I did not
use too much epoxy. I had just enough ooze to make sure I had enough.

[Lou in Baltimore]

Meerkat,
My plans were also from the Woodenboat Store, but about four years ago. I'm sure I did not think of the benches myself, so I'll go home later (writing now from work) and look at the plans, date, etc. I'll let you know. Maybe I can find a way to scan in the section of the plans showing the bench seats.
Lou

[Greg H]

I have a set from a few years ago that also shows side benches. They run from the mid thwart to the rear bulk head, or in this case they will run to a cleat on the deck beam. I increased it's dimensions a bit to hold the weight because I've moved the bulkheads towards the ends of the boat in order to keep the mast steps out of the sealed air chambers. This way I have some floatation, and easly accessable under deck space,and I can add more floatation if I want.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid33/p9cf2e014d03a1107d9c47685d019470f/fd3b552c.jpg

Not much room for sleeping next to the CB case. It looks like I can just fit in if I tuck my head under the deck. If you make the midthwart removable and make the floors flat on the top rather than arched like these are, you may gain a reasonable amount of floor space.

Afew new pics:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?show_all=1&hide=1&id=4292121889&album_id=4292121889&upload_source=album_add&is_owner=1&start=1

[Don Maurer]

If the floorboards are secured with turnbuttons, you may be able to place them on top of the thwarts, between the knees to make a bunk. Another option might be to make a cot out of canvas and battens running lengthwise every few inches. The battens span from the fore or aft thwart to the center of the center thwart, and fit into pockets in the canvas. This would enable you to fold the cot in half and roll it up.

[Meerkat]

According to the guys at Duckflats in Oz, it's possible to omit the thwart over the c/b trunk. I was planning to do that (actually make it removable since it's the rowing seat too) and put some knees from trunk to hull as reinforcement. The idea of modifying the floors to let the floorboards lie flat has crossed my mind, but is still under consideration - laying in the bottom of a light boat like that, a bit of curvature to make one tend to roll towards the center of the boat might not be a bad thing.

[Meerkat]

Greg; Forgot to mention. Nice pics of your boat! Thanks very much for posting them. I should be getting an album of pics from an NZ builder soon to share with y'all.

Is that meranti timber and meranti ply? The color of the woods in the photo look very similar.

[Greg H]

Thanks Merkat,

The light comming through the blue tarp throws the color way off. I had to mess with it in photoshop to make it look like wood at all.

Occume ply planking
white Oak keel/stem/keelson
Ash Gunwales
Yellow Pine Floors/Deck Beams
Cherry Breasthooks/Mid Thwart

I bet you could figure out a gunter yawl version.... ;)

[Meerkat]

I think it might come down to just making the fore and aft decks a bit higher and leave the rest as Mr. Oughtred intended it. I don't have the know-how to figure out how to make a gunter yawl out of the sloop nor the $$ to ask Mr. Oughtred for a new sail plan. Too bad... &lt;sigh&gt;

BTW, I did finally notice the side seats on the WB plan. I was also delighted to see the note about making the WB a wee bit longer - 15' instead of 14'6" (and longer if one is willing to have to 2 scarphs in the panels, which I'm not).

[Meerkat]

Well, last Saturday saw the first tiny step towards building the WB. I now own 2 sheets of 3/4" (18mm) ACB or ACC sanded front-face 5-ply forest conservancy certified (coincidentally) plywood for the mere price of $US22.45/sheet, courtesy of Home Despot. (The alternative ACX was reeealy bad with actual HOLES in the _face_ ply and generally rough as a cob!) This will be used for the moulds now and as future clamps for Barrett's Eun Mara build if the WB is done in time for her needs. We got it and 3 of it's friends to her place and into her shop and the shop tidied up a bit. Then we took her 18' stripper kayak down to Puget Sound so a prospective buyer could have a test paddle. Overall a delightful day!

Next - mould cutting! Hopefully, this Saturday.

Greg H, are you the same Greg H. that described the stretched WB and the yawl rig you and a sailmaker designed on Duckflats' Forum?

[Greg H]

Sure nuff. smile.gif

and the placement and sail designs, were graciously done by our own Todd Bradshaw. I'm still working out the details of getting things to go where they need to be.

If you stretch your whilly... the extra scarf only occurs in the shear strake.

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001354

Alas, most of the photos went away with the demise of photopoint.

[Meerkat]

Forgive me Greg, I must have an evil mind - and it's early in the day, pre-coffee. I kept seeing that as "If you stretch your whilly, the extra scarph only occurs on the rear strake." I sat for some time puzzling over what the heck a rear strake could be, read it again, puzzled some more, and then finally saw that it was SHEAR strake. (The english cousins are likely to laugh their rear strakes off if they read this. smile.gif )

Anyway, I read the thread on Tom Bradshaw's WB lug yawl design, and I'm curious how it will come out (you're right, all the pics where [x]). Wasn't the yawl mod done by Michael Storer suitable?

I wonder if Tom could be talked into taking a look at a gaff yawl rig for a 15' WB...? smile.gif

I had a chance to go over a wee cruising boat called the "Squeak" yesterday. This is the boat Stephen Ladd used for his 3 year tour of the Mississippi, S. America and the Carribean as he's described in his book "3 Years in a 12-Foot Boat". I'm going to have the chance to sail her in a couple of weeks! Anyway, at one point, I realized that "Squeak" was 3' shorter and 7" narrower (12'LOA x 4'beam) then the 15'LOA x 4'7" WB I want to build - and I didn't think that "Squeak" was a particularly small boat! 15' is going to work fine for me!

[Greg H]

Typing and spelling are a challenge for me at any time. :D
You might ask Todd, he did it for me in his spare time last winter. My opinion (for what it's worth) is that it would work. It may require a larger jib to balance the mizzen, and you would have to play with the size and location of main. It would mean a lot of strings to pull in a small boat though.
On the lug yawl, it was hard to get the ce far enough forward to keep the balance right with the added mizzen, and no jib.
I never saw a plan for Michael Storer's boat. (He owns the boat pictured on the Duckflat sight, right?) I did exchange e-mails and he indicated that a boat designer in Oz did the sail plan. I didn't ask to see them, and he didn't offer to share, but he did give me the name of the designer. I also spoke to Ian O., his opinion was the boat was to small for yawl rig, he thought the Ness Yawl was about the limit.
So I went about trying to figure it out myself. Eventualy I (half seriously) asked Todd on the forum and he did those lost pictures. My figuring was pretty close to what he did. I re did my figures, using his info and it came out the same.
Now if I can just finish the boat, we'll know if it works.

Squeak sounds neat. I've never heard the story, but I'm going to look it up. I've been daydreaming about camp cruising down the Potomac to the Chesapeake. But thats the unknown future.

;)

[Meerkat]

It wasn't your spelling, it was my eyes lying to my barely awake brain smile.gif

You can buy Steve's book, complete with autograph, from his website at http://www.eskimo.com/~sgl/book.html ($20.45 incl. postage for foreigners from out of state - $22 for natives ;) ) A very entertaining read!

He actually started on some obscure tributary of the Missouri River after hauling Squeak there in the back of his brother in-law's van from Bremerton, WA. From there, it was down the Mississippi, across the Gulf on a cargo steamer (working his passage, boat had to pay I think). Through the Panama Canal, down part of the west coast of S. America, through Cali, Columbia and over the Andes to a tributary of the Orinoco River by truck, rowed down that to the Atlantic and then sailed to Miami by island hopping the carribean, including Haiti and Cuba. Got a job transporting a rich guy's limo from Miami to Portland, hitched "Squeak" to it's bumper (on a trailer of course!) and drove her home in 5 days.

I don't understand how it's so many extra strings to pull? The gunter yawl will have a throat and peak halyard (right?), as would a gaff, and the mizzen is only one extra sheet, since the halyard goes up and then is forgotten until panic time ;)

[ 10-09-2002, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[rhickman]

Meerkat,

I dont have much to add other than I will be starting a Whilly Boat this weekend (or maybe next). The plans should be here tomorrow. I want to get started before I change my mind again. I bought the plans for the Caledonia Yawl but after MUCH thought decided to change. Mostly becuase the Whilly Boat will fit better in my garage and allow me to actually have some work space. Having 2 scarphs per strake and 2 masts were also big incentives to change. This is my first boat project.

Greg, nice work! I hope mine turns out that well. Thanks,

Robert

[Meerkat]

Robert; Cool! If this keeps up we'll have to have the Whilly Fleet Meet! smile.gif

Are you going to build the 14'6", 15' or 15'6" version? Standard is the 14'6", I'm building the 15' and Greg has gone all out for the 15'6" version. These are all per Iain's plans - you'll find a small note at the bottom of one of the plans pages about it.

[rhickman]

I will probably build the 15'6" version unless it is more complicated. What are your thoughts on Hills stringer method? I am thinking about using the stringers with the mould undersized so I can router the plank edges on the boat.

Also, what material are you using for the stem and keelson? I can get white oak easy but keep reading about epoxy problems. Iain acknowleges the epoxy reputation in his book but says its ok if you sand across the grain before gluing.

Robert

[Meerkat]

You touch upon matters that seem to be religious in nature smile.gif

With respect to (WRT) Oak, I've heard claims of difficulty that can be offset by wiping with alcohol or acetone before epoxying. I don't know myself. I may use Purpleheart since it's one of the cheapest woods I can obtain - or was the last time I priced woods last month.

WRT Hill vs. Oughtred, I've got both books. I have an experienced mentor and she's (Barrett Faneuf, also here on the forum) recommending we go with Oughtred's method. I did notice that Oughtred mentions Hill's method and says it's too much trouble unless you're producing more then one/a few boats.

I have the impression that Oughtred's method is similar to Hill's, only instead of either reducing the moulds by the thickness of the ribbands or making a notch in each mould for each ribband, he uses a tempory ribband/batten that's moved to the next plank land as one progresses.

There is another thread John Brooks on Lapstrake Planking (http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005699) that might be of interest.

Who knows, I may just build the 15'6" myself. Greg says only the sheer strake needs 2 scarphs. I wonder how the added length affects the sail/hull balance... Oooh Todd?! smile.gif

[ 10-10-2002, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Greg H]

Hello Robert, good choice.

There ought to be a gathering of Oughtred builders, I know they do it in Oz, we need an organizer.

Ken?

I haven't had any trouble using white oak so far, but she is still sitting in the "shed".I wipe everything with alcohol before gluing and have been using MAS epoxy, because it's thin and absorbs well when mixed straight. I haven't sanded the faying surfaces, because I read somewhere that it damages the pores, and a clean cut takes up better. So I go over everything with straight epoxy, and while that is soaking in, before it goes off, I mix some more with cabosil and wood flour for the actual glue.
One thing I did notice about w/oak, is that the correct amount of pressur is important. If you drop a glob on oak and let it harden, it can be chipped off. But if you do the two step thing and clamp (not too tight) it it seems to be ok. And just to make sure, I put good fillets in places that seem under more stress.

MereCat
I think the balance stays about the same if you stretch it. But it does change the l/w ratio, maybe slightly more tender ?? When trying to find the CLR, I noticed he had very little lead designed in. In changing to a yawl design, the lead was increced slightly.
You should get a copy of Todd's book, lots of info on rigs, not just canoes.
Arrrrgh!
It's the busy season, I haven't had time to do much on her recently. And winter's comming.

:rolleyes:

[Meerkat]

&lt;slaps forehead&gt; OH!, THAT Todd! smile.gif The Canoe Rig book right?

[EdenRose]

Meerkat,
On your way to a 100 message topic!
You can avoid two scarfs with
5x10 ply avaiable at Edensaw.
I did it, not just to avoid extra scarf, which is easy once you try it, but because overall
it was cheaper and more efficient use of wood.
In fact,I have one 5x10 panel left ovder (Okoume
1088) over. But you will have to private message me if you are interested (forum rules, you know.....)

[htom]

One sheet of 5'x10' plywood makes the idea of a "one sheet boat" much more tempting.

[EdenRose]

100 POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes the 5x10 is often a good answer. The yard here, Edensaw, charges the same per sq foot, so
there is no extra charge for the odd shape.
They only stock it in Okoume 1088, so if you want Meranti etc it won't work.
With the boat I built, it was actually cheaper
because I had less waste.

[Meerkat]

EdenRose; I thought that Okoume was the only 10' ply that EdenSaw offered. Oughtred recommends the Meranti, so I'm going with that, at least for the hull and I doubt it's very economical to use a 10' sheet for 2 4' (or less) decks.

Think of your extra sheet as a start on your next boat!

(Alternatively, I'll mention it to Barrett and see if she's interested!)

[ 10-13-2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Meerkat]

Progress!!!

We got 4 moulds (1, 4, 5, 7) transferred from plans to plywood and 'rough-cut' out in about 4 hours - all from one sheet!. They just need final trimming to the line. Only 3 more to go! (Might have gotten further if I hadn't had a really bad Friday night and showed up late.) We ended the day with me taking Barrett to her favorite restruant for dinner.

We didn't get anything done on Eun Mara, so that will have to be the first priority next weekend!

[EdenRose]

Meerkat,
I would love to stop by sometime in the next few months to see how things are going and pick up some tips. What part of the area is the shop in?

[Meerkat]

EdenRose, at the moment it's in Lakewood, S of Tacoma. After mid November, it will be in Lacy, N of Olympia.

I still want to come over and see your shop and boat too, I just haven't had the time!

[EdenRose]

I make it around the region a lot for work. Are you building on weekends? My inlaws are in Lacy, so that might work too.
I am home a lot if you end up in Kingston for anything.

[Meerkat]

Saturday is our build day. I hope in the future to add some part of, or all of Sunday too. I want this boat done before next summer!

[rhickman]

Meerkat,

I got the bldg frame and moulds setup this weekend for my whilly boat. I went with the 14'6" version. I also ordered some mahogony for the stems and keelson. Have you ordered plywood yet? I see where you mentioned Meranti? I read somewhere that it is similar to mahogony? The notes say that the boat will be 20-30 lbs lighter if it is built with occume plywood instead of mahogony. I dont have enough sailing experience to know if that is good. Any comments? I am getting ready to order the plywood and wanted to get some advice.

Robert

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by rhickman:
Meerkat,

I got the bldg frame and moulds setup this weekend for my whilly boat. I went with the 14'6" version. I also ordered some mahogony for the stems and keelson. Have you ordered plywood yet? I see where you mentioned Meranti? I read somewhere that it is similar to mahogony? The notes say that the boat will be 20-30 lbs lighter if it is built with occume plywood instead of mahogony. I dont have enough sailing experience to know if that is good. Any comments? I am getting ready to order the plywood and wanted to get some advice.

RobertMeranti is a kind of mahogany... I believe that Iain remarks several times that using Mahogany is a good thing (for strength and a bit more rot resistance - also $10+/sheet cheaper). I think he even suggested at one point if you where using Okoumi or other ply that you make at least the garboards out of Mahogany and/or use xenole or dynel cloth on them for abrasion resistance (I'm going to sheath my garboards). If you're talking about the (poorly) xeroxed notes that came with the plans, you should know that those are a summary of much more detailed and illustrated information in his book and are not Whilly Boat specific (nor is the book). I strongly reccommend you get his book!

My personal opinion is that a little extra weight isn't a bad thing for a sailboat but wouldn't be welcome in a boat meant primarily for rowing. Keep in mind that the hull is only 1/4" and that Meranti is stiffer then Okoume (but not as stiff as Sapele - which is v. expensive). I know that the racing crowd would disagree with me - they want the lightest boat with the most sail area, but I'm not out for the 'white knuckles' screamer. More weight means the boat will coast through the puffs of light air better (inertia) although, at this size, it's not a huge deal.

Whatever you decide to get, make sure it's a quality BS1088 spec'd ply - for the time you're putting into building, it's just not worth skimping on wood!

[capt jake]

After mid November, it will be in Lacy, N of Olympia.
Hmm, maybe I will have to stop by also, being as I am in Lacey. Are you building it at Bates??

[Barrett Faneuf]

The shop will be at my (MY!!!!!!) house in Lacey after I move in.

This is a bit of chick-counting folks.. still have to close on the house.. hehe please don't jynx me ;)

-Barrett

[capt jake]

I think I follow now! Good luck with the closing! And building... smile.gif
We may be moving soon, then I can have a 'bigger' shop. Mine is only 22x40 at present.

[Meerkat]

&lt;gulp&gt; YES, Barrett's house! Hers! Not mine! Hers!
;)

Barrett: it WILL happen! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

[ 10-14-2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Barrett Faneuf]

Oh!

Meerkat, it's OK!!

HAHA I wasn't implying that you were inferring something odd.. I was making a gleeful happy-i'm-buying-my-very-own-house statement, that's all!

Silly..

I just get nervous making plans to visit/use a thing that's not actually mine yet because Murphy happens..

[Meerkat]

A little bird has told me that the rest of the WB moulds are now laid out on the ply, just waiting to be freed. A few Eun-Mara moulds too!

Thanks Barrett!

[FCHanke]

I'm building a Whilly Boat, and have just finished to make the pattern for the garboard (I've used the method of making a pattern from two battens, fastened together with diagonal strips of wood); it is still fastened to the moulds. Now I realize the great effort to bend the garboard at station # 1. What can I do to keep the garboard shape after the epoxy cures, i. e., touching the # 1 mould?
I built an Acorn 8 two years ago, my first building, and had a similar problem - the garboard didn't touch the mold,it lifted about 1/4", notwithstandig I went on with the building, but this time I want to follow exactly the plan.

[Greg H]

Hello PCH, and welcome!
I had trouble getting the garboards to touch at station one, too. I found that I could pull them in enough, but when I did, the curve wasn't fair. I decided to let them run about 1/8" off of the mold.The nxt strake smooths everything out and keeps things in place. I read about this happening in the ness yawl also. Good luck. Post Pictures!

[Greg H]

Bump...
Anyone else have this trouble?

[casem]

I recall a similar problem with my Whillyboat garboards (and was also suprised at the amount of force needed to achieve the twist, w/ 7mm okoume). I ignored it and things worked out okay. But I don't think the gap was 1/4". Maybe 1/8".

[ 10-21-2002, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: casem ]

[FCHanke]

Yes, maybe it was 1/8, I'm not sure, it was two years ago, and with the Acorn 8.
Reading Casem reply, I'm afraid I'm going to have big trouble twisting that garboard, because I'm going to build with 8mm ply, as per plan. Anyway, we don't have 7mm ply around here.

[Don Olney]

Yes. When building the Ness Yawl, I found that the garboards wouldn't touch the mould at station 1. It was off by quite a bit. How much, I don't remember exactly. Probably around 5/16" to 3/8". I checked the building base set up and everything else a couple of times and decided that the plans must have had an error in them, but when the boat was finished who would notice? Not even Oughtred I'd bet.

Anyway, later on, Iain told me that the plans had been "drawn too tight" with regard to the garboard and station 1. His book (which arrived when my hull was almost finished) mentions this and shows a picture of the garboard at station 1.

The thing is, you can work out the difference on the remaining planks so that by the time you get to hanging the sheer it will touch the mould or come a lot closer than the garboard anyway.

If you use thicker ply, you might find that it lifts off the station somewhat where the bend/twist is greatest. I would't force it down too much or you'll probably end up with unfair lines.

[Meerkat]

Nothing new to report. Barrett is still in the throws of moving house. This post is really just to get the thread closer to the top of the pile and not lost in the depths of old posts smile.gif

[Wild Wassa]

Originally posted by shamus:
What I really like is cruising past Mirrors rolling a cigarette while they strain their sorry stomach muscles.Well Shamus, when you think that basically only the Sabot and Access Dinghy are slower than the Mirror (M's yardstick is 146, S's 155, AD's 167). Have you got a better reference?

Warren.

ps, I swim faster than Mirrors.

[ 11-11-2002, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Meerkat]

Huh?