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Garrett Lowell
09-06-2005, 12:38 PM
...is a genius. I didn't know what I was missing!

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Garrett Lowell:
...is a genius. I didn't know what I was missing!The transformation is beginning :D

Dan McCosh
09-06-2005, 12:44 PM
I think whoever invented it is now suing Apple.

Garrett Lowell
09-06-2005, 12:44 PM
:D :D :D

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Dan McCosh:
I think whoever invented it is now suing Apple.And, actually, THEY WON! :D

Creative won the patent fight with Apple. Apple's iPod patent was disallowed and Creative's was accepted.

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Dan McCosh:
I think whoever invented it is now suing Apple.Actually not!
Miro(sux)oft also recently claimed to have a patent on the iPod GUI but it was proven to be very sketchy. The ID of the design and interface along with the complete turn around of APPLE computers look from the iMac on goes to the design guru at apple - Jonathan Ives. The vision of Jobs and design of Ives.

[ 09-06-2005, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Dan McCosh
09-06-2005, 12:58 PM
My personal complaint is the discovery that the iPod Shuffle doesn't work with a 4-year old Apple computer. Not that they are trying to push OS upgrades....

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dan McCosh:
I think whoever invented it is now suing Apple.Actually not!
Miro(sux)oft also recently claimed to have a patent on the iPod GUI but it was proven to be very sketchy. The ID of the design and interface along with the complete turn around of APPLE computers look from the iMac on goes to the design guru at apple - Jonathan Ives. The vision of Jobes and design of Ives.</font>[/QUOTE]Ah, so sorry Grasshopper, but you are incorrect. The patent for the menuing system/interface/GUI used by the iPod was granted to Creative and the Apple patent was disallowed.

Creative is said to be considering whether or not to charge Apple royalties. Of course, if they wanted to, they could force Apple to stop making iPods.... :eek: :D

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:04 PM
In case you don't believe me:
Creative Technology beats Apple on MP3 patent (http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/08/30/apple_creativepatent/)


Creative Technology has been crowing after it was awarded a patent for MP3 player interface technology used by devices like rival Apple's popular iPod.

Creative, maker of the Creative Zen and Nomad Jukebox MP3 players, said Tuesday it was "very excited" by the patent award, adding this "recognized" the company's innovation in this highly competitive and lucrative field.

The chuffed Creative reminded the MP3 buying public and a fickle industry, that it - and not its sexier, market leading rival Apple - was first to market with an MP3 player.

News of Creative's successful application is the second patent blow to Apple's iPod this month. AppleInsider reported in early August that a three-year battle by Apple to patent the iPod's menu-based interface had proved unsuccessful, thanks to a prior filing by inventor and Microsoft research scientist John Platt.

Platt's application described a system to "generate playlists for a library collection of media items via selecting a plurality of seed items, at least one of which is an undesirable seed item."

After Apple's original filing was rejected, the company sought a review of an amended set of claims to its patent, whose primary creators are listed as chief executive Steve Jobs and vice president Jeff Robbin. That review proved unsuccessful.

The Zen patent covers the selection by the user of a least one track in a portable media player as a user navigates through a hierarchy using three or more successive screens. Sound familiar?

Creative has been employing the interface since September 2000, when the Nomad Jukebox first appeared. Apple's iPod debuted in October 2001, with Apple filing its patent application with the US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) in October 2002.

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 01:05 PM
Very sketchy Obiwan
Sounds like creative which MP3 players pale in comparison to iPods is trying to make up for a lousy product by claiming they invented a better one. Yea that makes sense. :rolleyes:
Creative is dying, after last quarters losses in the millions this is a desperate attempt for survival. If Apple wins this battle Creative will not doubt join Rio and soon Napster at the digital music tech graveyard, all thanks to the killer iTMS and iPod revolution! "Creative's Zen Neon MP3 players inadvertently shipped to Japan from the factory with a functioning copy of the Wullik.b worm, which affects Windows PCs." - HAHAAHA!!! Where is the outrage?!

http://img.engadget.com/common/images/9412964752128387.JPG?0.03487320827620766

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000467056617/


Still waiting to see whether they patent their unique process for putting worms on MP3 players, but in the meantime Creative just scored a patent for its user interface for portable media players. To make things simple for us they’re dubbing this the “Zen Patent”, and, surprise, surprise, they’re already making some noise about how the patent covers the UI used in the iPod and iPod mini. You probably already know how dim a view we take of the USPTO these days, but c’mon, a patent for a UI that “enables selection of at least one track in a portable media player as a user sequentially navigates through a hierarchy using three or more successive screens on the display of the player”? Isn’t that sort of obvious? No matter, we’re counting down the minutes until Creative files suit against, well, everybody.


[ 09-06-2005, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:09 PM
And what was that you said about Microsoft losing to Apple over an iPod patent dispute?

Microsoft, Apple 'spar over iPod patent' (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/10/microsoft_apple_patent/)


According to AppleInsider, a patent filed in 2002 by a Microsoft researcher has prompted the US Patent and Trademark Office to reject an Apple application to patent its iPod user interface.

But leave the black helicopters grounded for a moment: the conspiracy theories may not be flightworthy.
Click Here

The AppleInsider story says the Apple application "to patent the menu-based software interface of its popular iPod digital music player has ultimately proved unsuccessful."

However that isn't the case. The story is coy about the patents it discusses, doesn't mention the Microsoft connection and upon further research, it's clear that several key aspects of the iPod are adequately covered by separate Apple IP applications. Both patents discussed have weathered multiple rejections by the USPTO.

The story reports that last month an iPod-related patent application for "rotational user inputs" by Apple was rejected, with the examiner citing an earlier 2002 application filed by John Platt. A Microsoft Research scientist who used to work for touch pad vendor Synaptics, Platt filed a claim for "playlist generation based on seed items" on May 30 2002, some seven months after the iPod was unveiled.

Comparing the two applications, it's hard to see how they overlap. AppleInsider claims "the process by which the iPod's software displays its own menu-based interface is very similar to the process Platt's filing goes on to describe." Such a similarity eluded us, although you can judge for yourselves - the links are at the end of this report.

Apple's application, assigned to iTunes engineer Jeffrey Robbins, Apple CEO Steve Jobs and VP of marketing Phil Schiller, was made on September 26 2002, and describes rotating an input device to navigate in a linear fashion through a user interface. "Although the type of computing device can vary, the improved approaches are particularly well-suited for use with a portable media player," according to the filing.

AppleInsider reports that the rotational patent has been rejected by the USPTO. However, this isn't as final as the statement suggests. "Non-Final Rejections" (NFR) of this kind aren't unusual. Patents are frequently bounced back to the inventor, and many successful patents are accepted only after several NFRs. For example, an Amazon.com e-commerce patent we wrote about recently succeeded at the fifth attempt in four years.

Apple's rotation application, we discover, received its first NFR on September 29, 2004 and was bounced again on June 13 this year.

But Platt's playlist application also has a rejection history. It received an NFR on 17 November 2002, and a more serious Final Rejection on 14 June 2004. After further documentation was received, and extension granted, the application received another NFR on 11 December last year.

Apple has filed a number of applications to protect the iPod and iTunes user interfaces, including 60/359,551 ("Touch Pad for Handheld Device") and 60/387,692 ("Method and Apparatus for Use of Rotational User Inputs").

Apple is facing two infringement suits claiming the iPod violates existing IP. ®Better to get your IT news from a less biased source... ;)

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:11 PM
Funny - Creative reported a profit last quarter. WHERE do you get this stuff? :D

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 01:13 PM
Make a successful product and if the competition cant beat you have them sue you.

C'mon Mircosux has a building of patent attorneys filling things now that have yet to be invented. Hell I bet if someone were to try to file a patent for turning lead into gold Microcrap would already have the patent. :rolleyes:

Step away from the dark side :D

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
Funny - Creative reported a profit last quarter. WHERE do you get this stuff? :D http://en.wiki news.org/wiki/Creative_Technology_sees_profits_drop_72%25,_but_s ales_soar (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Creative_Technology_sees_profits_drop_72%25,_but_s ales_soar)

Creative Technology sees profits drop 72%, but sales soar

From Wikinews, the free news source you can write!

April 22, 2005*

Creative Technology Ltd, maker of the popular Zen and Zen Micro MP3 player ranges, has reported a 72% drop in quarterly profits. However sales rose 65%.

Net income was $15.9m, $0.18 a share; down from $57m or $0.68 a share a year earlier. Sales were $333.8m.

The results show the extent of Creative's current price war with rival Apple Computer. Both firms have dropped prices on key products on numerous occasions in recent months in an attempt to steal market share in the fast growing digital audio market.

Creative, based in Singapore, has thus far sold 2m MP3 players worldwide, making it the number two player in the market.

http://charting.nasdaq.com/ext/charts.dll?2-1-14-0-0-512-03NA000000CREAF-&SF:4|5-WD=484-HT=395-

NOT Looking like a good year for them. Better sue the competition eh ;)

[ 09-06-2005, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):

Step away from the dark side :D Indeed - and from the rotten apple corps too tongue.gif

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):

Creative is dying, after last quarters losses in the millions this is a desperate attempt for survival. Oh dear. You have contradited your own self! :eek:

They didn't lose millions, they made less, but they still posted positive results.

They should be doing better now that they stand to take a royalty off every iPod Apple sells! tongue.gif :D

<span style="font-size: 3em">NEENER NEENER NEENER

Garrett Lowell
09-06-2005, 01:24 PM
You all know I'm no fan of Macs. But this iPod (and iTunes) is a great product. About 10 years ago, my entire CD collection was stolen. I've been able to find nearly every disc on iTunes. I know "awesome" is overused, but in this case it certainly applies.

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):

Step away from the dark side :D Indeed - and from the rotten apple corps too tongue.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Apple is having a better year :D

http://charting.nasdaq.com/ext/charts.dll?2-1-14-0-0-512-03NA000000AAPL-&SF:4|5-WD=484-HT=395-

[ 09-06-2005, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Garrett Lowell:
You all know I'm no fan of Macs. But this iPod (and iTunes) is a great product. About 10 years ago, my entire CD collection was stolen. I've been able to find nearly every disc on iTunes. I know "awesome" is overused, but in this case it certainly applies.I have no issue with iTunes or iPod - just with over-zealous nits! tongue.gif ;) :D

Dan McCosh
09-06-2005, 01:28 PM
Since mine doesn't work on my Apple computer, how good is the sound?

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ):

Creative is dying, after last quarters losses in the millions this is a desperate attempt for survival. Oh dear. You have contradited your own self! :eek:

They didn't lose millions, they made less, but they still posted positive results.

They should be doing better now that they stand to take a royalty off every iPod Apple sells! tongue.gif :D

<span style="font-size: 3em">NEENER NEENER NEENER</font>[/QUOTE]Actualy NASDAQ and the NYT do not have a decision on the pattent suit yet. Please post the results. It looks as though this battle has not been won.

09/01/2005 9:15AM
Creative Technology Accuses Apple Of Violating Patent-NYT


NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- Creative Technology (CREAF), the Singapore-based maker of portable music players, has accused Apple Computer (AAPL) of violating a newly granted software patent covering the way users navigate music selections, the New York Times reported Thursday.

Creative Technology, which has U.S. operations in Milpitas, Calif., said it would consider every option available to defend the patent, including possible legal action, the newspaper said, adding that Apple declined to comment on the patent.

The so-called Zen Patent applies to Creative's interface for portable players, which allows users to select a song, album or track by navigating a succession of menus. The patent office awarded the patent on Aug. 9.

Craig McHugh, president of Creative's U.S. operations, said Apple was the only company identified so far in violation of the patent, though others are being investigated, the Times said.

McHugh told the newspaper that Creative was focusing on hard-drive-based systems, rather than less-expensive flash-memory systems that typically sport a bare-bones navigation system.

Creative executives said the company first shipped music players with the navigation system in September 2000, and filed the patent application in January 2001, the newspaper said. Apple announced the iPod in October 2001.

The Times said Apple can request the patent office re-examine the patent. If Apple fights the matter in court, the company would need to show the existence of "prior art," that is, similar technology that existed previous to Creative's use of the technology.

(END) Dow Jones Newswires

09-01-050915ET

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:38 PM
Sorry Joe, but that made no sense. The patent is granted and it looks like Creative is moving to defend it. Neither NASDAQ or the NYSE have any bearing on the matter, except to report the companies involved's stock activity.

Under US patent law, Creative could move for a restraining order prohibiting Apple from shipping any infringing product at all. The courts usually grant such motions. This would be immediate and would not be lifted, if at all, until further litigation is complete.

If Creative wanted to get really bitchy, they can force Apple, through the courts, to give Creative ALL the $ value of iPods shipped to date, not just the profits. The courts did this to IBM when they tried to horn in on the xerograpic copier market. Xerox ate their lunch. Ditto for Kodak and Polaroid. Polaroid won.

That won't help Apple's bottom line. In fact, it could put Apple out of business since some 65% of their revenue is from iPod. :eek:

Garrett Lowell
09-06-2005, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Dan McCosh:
Since mine doesn't work on my Apple computer, how good is the sound?It's great. I use the highest sampling for copying, and the stereo in my Wrangler actually sounds good with this thing when I have the little FM transmitter set up.

Meerkat
09-06-2005, 01:46 PM
BTW, new iPod Mini rumored: no more HD, instead it gets the same storage in flash memory and a color screen.

Garrett Lowell
09-06-2005, 01:48 PM
What's the deal with battery replacement? When the batt finally dies, how do you go about replacing it?

Edited to add: I know it's rechargeable, but that doesn't mean it'll last forever.

[ 09-06-2005, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Garrett Lowell ]

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
Sorry Joe, but that made no sense. The patent is granted and it looks like Creative is moving to defend it.

That won't help Apple's bottom line. In fact, it could put Apple out of business since some 65% of their revenue is from iPod. :eek: So it has to be defended hmmmm so no ruling yet against Apple? ;)

Yea in your dreams it could put Apple out of business Bwaaaaaa ha ha

Where do YOU get your information LOL :D :D :D
Go play with your penguin ;)

Ooooh and wait till you see the collaboration with the Motorola and the new iPod cell phone :D

[ 09-06-2005, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Garrett Lowell:
What's the deal with battery replacement? When the batt finally dies, how do you go about replacing it?

Edited to add: I know it's rechargeable, but that doesn't mean it'll last forever.http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.html


iPod Owners

Your one year warranty includes replacement coverage for a defective battery. You can extend your warranty to two years with AppleCare. During the second year, Apple will replace the battery if it drops below 50% of its original capacity. If it is out of warranty, Apple offers a battery replacement for $59, plus $6.95 shipping. Apple disposes your battery in an environmentally-friendly manner.

Ross M
09-06-2005, 02:09 PM
"What's the deal with battery replacement? When the batt finally dies, how do you go about replacing it?

You send it off to Apple with a check for about 2/3 original cost :(

Ross

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Ross M:
"What's the deal with battery replacement? When the batt finally dies, how do you go about replacing it?

You send it off to Apple with a check for about 2/3 original cost :(

Ross$59, plus $6.95 shipping = 2/3 :rolleyes:

Ross M
09-06-2005, 02:41 PM
Joe is right, and I am wrong!

It's only 53% of the initial purchase price smile.gif

Ross

Joe (SoCal)
09-06-2005, 02:50 PM
Basic iPod $299.00 - $59, plus $6.95 shipping = 53% of the initial purchase price ? :rolleyes:

Garrett Lowell
09-07-2005, 05:30 AM
Thanks, Joe, for the info on the battery. I have the extended warranty, so I'm good for a few years.

brent stella
09-07-2005, 07:23 AM
How tuff are these Ipods? I want to get one but I have broke two of the Rio Chibas already at the Gym. If it weren't for that I would stay with the Rio's but I need somthing a little tuffer.