soft screws!!?

[ningcompoop]

Hello woodenboaters. Can anyone advise me on the easiest way to remove brass/bronze (not sure which) scews from a 1958 Heron dinghy (ply+mahogany frame) Im trying to renovate- trying to remove deck fittings prior to fitting new deck, even with a well-fitting bit the scewheads are just shredding. Time for the drill?

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Ouch. This can be horrible.
1. Get the screw-heads perfectly clean, this is a tedious manual task, pay special attention to the slot and to the edge of the head. Make certain that it is not glued in place with old varnish.

2. Get exactly the right screwdriver, this should fill the slot completly, full width and ful depth with the tip ground correctly. Keep it straight.

3. Get the screw good and hot, gas powered soldering iron is weapon of choice. Hot enough to melt any gunge, not so hot as to burn the timber.

Sometimes you can take a second crack at it by cutting a new slot, but with brass screws where the zinc has been leeched out, you may just have to drill.

[ 03-16-2005, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: P.I. Stazzer-Newt ]

[Bruce Hooke]

I sometimes find it helpful in situations like this to use a screwdriver bit in a drill brace. This allows you to lean down with your full body weight as you start to turn, which can do a lot to keep the bit from caming out and chewing up the slot.

[Dave Williams]

I had to remove hundreds of bronze screws when replanking the bottom of my current project. I was having a heck of a time like you. The cure for me was to use an impact driver. It seems to apply enough pressure to keep the driver engaged. I had very few head failures after that. The new cordless impact drivers are a very nice tool to have anyway. I feel like it payed for itself on that one project.

Hope this helps,
Dave

[Ed Harrow]

Lee Valley sells some magic screw-driver gripper stuff, which I have found helps.

The impact wrench solution, while not intuitive, probably does work slick. Either shears the head on the first whack, or the puppy comes right out. Heat also works.

Like all good problems, this one sometimes responds best to several simultaneous solutions.

Another potentially handy device is an "electricians" screwdriver. They use a two-piece blade which can be wedged in the slot. If you have a screw turning but not coming out, they can grab it for easy (easier) removal.

[Keith Wilson]

The impact driver is probably the best soution, but short of that, giving the (correctly-sized) screwdriver a lusty whack or two with a hammer before trying to turn the screw cometimes helps.

[Ken Hutchins]

I've been using the whack with the hammer method for many years, seldom a problem. Use the hammer before even trying to turn it. A hammer and flat drift punch also works for fixing slots that have been rounded over.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Beware the lump hammer and impact driver approach.

The Heron is rather lightly built for that game.

[Cuyahoga Chuck]

Sounds like some are confusing an "impact driver", a hand held tool that is struck with a hammer, with an "impact wrench",which is air or electric powered. An impact wrench works best when there is a goodly amount engagement. Hexhead,allenhead,torque drive, Roberts drive. Personally I wouldn't used one on a slotted wood screw until I had broken it loose by other means.
The split blade screw drivers are for holding screws on the end of the blade and are best used only to get screws started. They are much to flimsy for applying large amounts of torque.
A trick I used for years with small machine screws was to tighten and loosen alternately.
If you can get even a small amount of movement from a stuck fastener the chances of unscrewing it without breakage are much improved.
Charlie

[Keith Wilson]

Here's a hand Impact Driver, which turns the screw while hammering the driver bit into the slot. It's wonderful for loosening rusted bolts. You can get a cheap one for under $10. Electric ones are becoming much more common for power driving of screws in wood; they sell them as "impact drivers" also. I don't know how well the power ones would work on old slotted screws.

http://store1.yimg.com/I/cvfsupplyco-store_1805_8443454

[ 03-16-2005, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Ed Harrow]

Originally posted by Cuyahoga Chuck:
...The split blade screw drivers are for holding screws on the end of the blade and are best used only to get screws started. They are much to flimsy for applying large amounts of torque.
...
Charlie
Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
...Another potentially handy device is an "electricians" screwdriver. They use a two-piece blade which can be wedged in the slot. If you have a screw turning (emphasis added) but not coming out, they may (substituted more correct word) grab it for easy (easier) removal.I used one of these to remove a fair number of screws that were turning, but had no "traction" and so wouldn't come out of their hole. Another trick that worked surprisingly well, were left-hand drill bits. More times than one would think they caught the screw, jammed, and the screw came right out.

[ 03-16-2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Ed Harrow ]

[Wild Wassa]

Following on from others ... Keith? I wonder if a Heron could handle, a "lusty wack." Maybe I should have belted the soul case out of her right from the start ... and set the ground rules early.

Ning', I've restored a Heron and bits. I gently tapped a hand held screw driver with a hammer, to remove the screws that I had to, I didn't remove or replace any screw that I didn't have to, it is only a quarter of a turn needed hopefully ... are you also removing her ply sheet floor?

On the Heron when I removed the false floor the floors had come away from the hull below the false floor (I shouldn't have looked). Good luck Skipper, I hope her restoration goes well.

Warren.

[ 03-16-2005, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

[Victor]

Google "screw extractor". There's a guy who sells something at Mystic each year to handle this. Someone said it's a variation of something you can get at the Depot. How's that for being specific?

[Stiletto]

I knew an old fellow who used to heat up an old time sodering iron ( the sort with the big copper head)very hot and apply it to the head of the screw, it seemed to work quite well for him.

Might be worth a try.

[Ed Harrow]

If the head is gone (snapped off) you can save some money by making your own "extractor" from a roll pin (split pin). You need to get one that has an ID just a bit smaller than the OD of the screw. Use a file or grinding wheel to cut a "V" notch at one end of the split. (The ones you can buy have "teeth" ground into the one end IIRC.) These work OK from my limited experience with small screws, I've not needed to try these on the larger screws of my current project.

They will render the hole oversize, of course.

[Bayboat]

Pretty much all of the above works. There is life after using a screw extractor--the type made from a roll pin. After the screw remnant exits, you will have a fairly smooth hole in which to put a long bung or a piece of dowel. Then just re-drill and install a new silicon bronze screw.

[ningcompoop]

thanks for all your input, Ill refer back to it in a couple of months when the rain stops and I can get back out in the yard and start playing again! Have to say, not keen on impact driver- got one, ok on rusty steel, not 6mm plywood!! Got lots of other heretical thoughts, like deks olje and balcotan, but will save them for a later date!

[Mhija]

Your friendly neighborhood Sears store has a dandy
little set of variations on the left handed drill
bit idea which dig into the head of the screw and
then grab it to back the screw out.They look a bit like a pocket-hole drill bit with a smaller
pilot followed by a larger bit. If I remember
rightly the set is priced at $30ish.

[Paul Maselli]

The Roll Pin variety of left handed screw extracting hole saws (Left handed being the key here and hole saw being the downfall and cause for this device only work semi sufficiently). My experience is with #12 & #10 screws, but the older they are the more likely the head will shear off with the drilling action and the little cutting head will bore a hole around the shank of the screw. Until you bury enough screw shank into the roll pin and the screw snaps.... Not the greatest answer...

Mhija is correct ;) . Bob Villa hawks these little left hand screw extractors at a hefty price. You can do the very same job and even better with a left hand drill bit. Size it about 70% smaller than the shank. Sharpen a very flat angle on its face and don't touch the rake angle of the flute. Now, engage in whats left of the slot and drive slowly (backwards). It will drill a hole until it grabs and then it backs the screw out for you. Once in a while is simply grabs the slot and doesn't drill at all. If the screw spins and doesn't back out finesse it with a little light pressure pulling back. You can hang onto the screw and get it far enough out of the hole to grab with you fingers. This method helped extract 100's of #12 x 2" Bronze FHWD circa 1936 in my Alden Sloop the Elliot White" smile.gif

Now when all else fails grab the Needle Nose Vise Grips :eek:

Patients and Good Luck.

TheMobileBoatwright

[Hughman]

A handy tool for spinning screws is a putty knife with a small half-moon cut into the blade. Insert the notch under the screw head while turning with screwdriver, and ease the screw out.

[Paul Maselli]

Originally posted by Hughman:
A handy tool for spinning screws is a putty knife with a small half-moon cut into the blade. Insert the notch under the screw head while turning with screwdriver, and ease the screw out.Absolutely. As long as the screw is not in a counterbore.

[Dave Lesser]

Nice article in WB #135 with tips about screw removal.