View Full Version : Ahmed Chalabi, double agent

05-21-2004, 09:51 PM
I just have to ask, is this not too much to be believed? Ahmed Chalabi is the darling of the Cheney-Wolfowitz-Feith crowd, provides the majority of the (false) intelligence that served as the (proven wrong) basis for us going to war in Iraq. Rumsfeld formed a special intelligence group in the pentagon which accepted everything Chalabi and his creatures had to say as gospel, overruling the CIA's much more cautious information.

Chalabi is the official guest of first lady Laura Bush at the state of the union address this year, pictures show him sitting directly behind her.

And now it turns out he was an Iranian double agent?

Holy toledo, Batman, this is amazing beyond belief. We were not duped into invading Iraq by an ambitious Iraqi expatriot, as we naive liberals beleived all along. It turns out we were duped into invading Iraq by that notorious sworn enemy of Iraq and proud member of the axis of evil, Iran. We have been played like a fool by Iran, because of the ideological blindness of the neocons which led them to embrace this Chalabi character simply because he told them what he wanted to hear.

Has any other enemy double agent penetrated so far, so high up, into the US government? Has any other enemy double agent sat with the first lady at the State of the Union speach? Has any other enemy double agent duped the US into going to war with another country, just so the enemy could take over after we left?

Because thats whats going on here, the Iranians could not be happier, they have been fighting Iraq for 20 years, and now we have knocked out Hussein, and when we leave, the Iranians will be able to march in, support the majority Shia faction, and achieve what they have been trying to do for the last 20 years.

And all because they were able to dupe the most naive and inept and incompetent US administration in our history. Amazing.

stan v
05-21-2004, 10:31 PM
Who put that Haitian dictator in power, you know, the one that claims we forced him to move to Africa? :D

05-21-2004, 10:36 PM
I like what Jeff says. Esentially an unscrupulous character out for himself and not particularly concerned with who he lies to along the way. I mean Chalabi in this case, not Bush and his administration. Sorry about any confusion.

05-21-2004, 10:37 PM
Thats the definition of a double agent, isn't it? Playing both ends against the middle?

Does that excuse the terminal stupidity, the blinkered incompetence, of the ideologues who fell for it, possibly the most outrageous scam ever perpetrated against our nation, and with the most serious consequences.

Dumb dumb dumb, in the way that the arrogant ideological types often are, ignoring all advice from more moderate views, adhering to their ideologically driven view of things despite all contradictory evidence.

Its just plain idiocy and incompetence to let yourself get taken this way. Its dumb. We are now officially the Bitch of Iran, thanks to the bold leadership of Bush. Dumb dumb dumb. Its not like noone told him. This was Cheney's folly, though, in the end, Bush is just dumb for thinking Cheney is someone worth listening to.

05-21-2004, 10:46 PM
Senior U.S. officials told 60 Minutes Correspondent Lesley Stahl that they have evidence Chalabi has been passing highly-classified U.S. intelligence to Iran.
From the AP:

"The evidence shows that Chalabi personally gave Iranian intelligence officers information so sensitive that if revealed it could, quote, "get Americans killed." The evidence is said to be "rock solid."

Sources have told Stahl a high-level investigation is underway into who in the U.S. government gave Chalabi such sensitive information in the first place."

Who indeed? Who was so dumb? Who invited an agent of the Iranians to sit in the US capital with the first lady of the United States? Who blindly accepted all the false information this convicted fraud was peddling? Who put US armed forces in harms way on the basis of these lies? Who beleived these lies despite a chorus of advice from knowledgeable experts that they were false? Who so trusted this convicted fraud that they gave him sensitive secrets so he could pass them to the Iranians?

The answer is Dick Cheney and George Bush. There is such a thing as responsibility. We elect leaders to exercise good judgment. These guys look more and more like the keystone cops every minute.

stan v
05-21-2004, 10:47 PM
Jeff: Could another smart person take advantage of you? In a time of crisis?

Only every dim candidate he's ever represented.

[ 05-21-2004, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: stan v ]

05-21-2004, 10:50 PM
Ironmule, I never threw aside 200 years of precedent and pushed our country into a pre-emptive war in which nearly a thousand boys died and thousands more were maimed, because of a blatant fraud by a convicted fraud.

I have been fooled for a time, but not for years, as this man fooled our president.

When you set yourself up as the only man who can be trusted to fight the war on terror, I think its fair to point out massive, incredible **** ups like this one.

stan v
05-21-2004, 10:55 PM
So the UN was fooled with all those resolutions?

Damsad was not a murderer and sponser of terrorist?

Looks like Clintoon was fooled, too.

PC, has it occured to you that you probably don't have all the details of this event? And if you do, please enlighten your buds on the left and tell 'em about the 'Oil For Food Program' fraud perpetuated by the UN on the Iraqi people. Come on! Then I want to know what candidate you're working with this election cycle...full disclosure please.

05-21-2004, 11:05 PM
Nice tries, but no cigar. Fact is that Bush and Cheney ignored dozens of advisors telling them that Chalabi was suspect. He was telling them what they wanted to hear, and they just wouldn't listen to the good advice they were given. So its ludicrous to suggest they were victims of their advisors. Besides which, I expect my president to choose competent advisors, too bad you don't have such high expectations.

Question no one has answered yet is, has any president ever been so duped as to let a fraud and double agent like this Chalabi actually start a war? Has any double agent ever penetrated so high as to be sitting with the first lady in the US Capital during the state of the union?

Dumb, dumb, dumb dumb dumb. Incompetent. Unwilling to take advice, unwilling to take responsibility. Spoiled rich boy who coasted onn family connections all his life is showing his true colors, incompetent, incorrigible.

stan v
05-21-2004, 11:09 PM
You went from dissing W to dissing Kerry.....is J F'n K who you're working for this election?

05-21-2004, 11:16 PM
You guys are providing a perfect example of just how Bush and Cheney got taken so embarrasingly. Just like them, you have a strongly held ideological agenda, and it renders you incapable of rationally examining facts. Instead you just reject whatever doesn't agree with your preconceptions.

Thats exactly how Bush and Cheney got shnookered so badly. They were determined to invade Iraq, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, even though Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, even though Iraq was no threat to the US. Bush and Cheney were led by the nose because they were wearing blinders, just like you guys.

stan v
05-21-2004, 11:28 PM
But, thank God for 20/20 vision (with all that hindsight to boot) from the left.....PC..all knowing, all seeing, fair and balanced...a leader that could take Iraq and have it resemble Paris overnite.

PC daydreaming: If only I had a brain.

Weeeee're OFF to see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of OZ.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-22-2004, 03:09 AM
There really can be no doubt that:

a) Chalabi was very close to the senior members of the Bush administration

b) He provided intelligence that was not well thought of by the USA's intelligence establishments

c) The intelligence he provided was relied on by senior members of the Bush administration

d) The intelligence he provided was wrong

e) That intelligence played a large part in the USA's decision to invade Iraq

f) The US invasion of Iraq has greatly benefitted Iran already, and may benefit Iran much more if, as now seems very likely, Iraq turns into a Shia-dominated state, possibly with a clerical emphasis.

To which we add a report that Chalabi has passed information to Iran. In that case, he has indeed acted as a double agent, and Iran has made a fool of us, getting our countries to invade and destroy the Baath regime, and creating the conditions in Iraq for Iranian interests to prosper.

I think Pat is probably right.

It's a bit embarrassing, but there is no point in pretending that it never happened.

[ 05-22-2004, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Craig-Bennett ]

05-22-2004, 07:44 AM
Faith based foreign policy, who needs facts?

Pat,,I don't think Cheney et al were snookered. I was reading about Cheneys earlier cabinet positions and his mistrust of CIA intelligence,,I take his actions to mean that the "reasons" stated for invasion were almost immaterial. The world is dependant upon middle east oil. Iraq is crippled with clear negatives should it recover from sanctions under Saddam and Sons. Saudi Arabia is moving towards instability. Chinas consumption is driving prices. Golly,,,we must remove the bad, bad WMD and bring democracy to Iraq. Er,no the consequences of terrorism are acceptable as evidenced by the priority given to counterterrorism under the Cheney/GW administration. Look at the facts,,,missle defense was given a greater priority than counterterrorism even with the history of terrorist attacks leading up to 9/11 and the Clinton administrations warnings,,,Counterterrorist Incorporated probably doesn't have as many employees and lobbyists as those in the BMD game.

this fellow does an entertaining job connecting the dots. www.talkingpointsmemo.com (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com)

[ 05-22-2004, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: LeeG ]

05-22-2004, 09:47 AM
I wish when I screwed up there would be so many people gathering round to make excuses.

05-22-2004, 10:25 AM
Donn, I have a few obsessions,,that one started when I was in highschool figuring out how big a 1megaton block of TNT was. Nuclear weapons was my peculiar association with personal death/Armageddon like some folks looked to communism, the devil or what have you as harbingers of the end. Some young folks of my nephews generation look at AIDS that way. The end hasn't come but now we've got Islam to flutter our hands about.
I obsess about BMD as a symbol of the industrial welfare state. Are all wasteful programs from social entitlement programs while all military r&d is finely honed by competition?
I'm not unique in repeating a line expecting people to pick it up. The invasion was about WMD remember?,,no wait it was because Saddam was a bad man,,no really it was because there was a link between Iraq and Al Qeda,,no really it was about those developing intentions to plan programs of WMD,,,see there was that artillery shell!
To answer your question,,of course. Doesn't it make you wonder about the stated goals of the occupation when someone as untrusted by the CIA AND the Iraqis was THE man we tried to put in there? Come on Donn,,it's ok to criticize the status quo,,it won't collapse because of a few conversations.

05-22-2004, 11:00 AM
Somehow the fact that possibility that PatCox may have once been duped justifies Bush's handling of the war.

Classic neo-con logic.

Ignore, deny, dissemble, refute weakly, then draw a parallel to the nearest liberal.

05-22-2004, 12:26 PM
Donn,,the group I am saying mistrusted the CIA are the folks like Cheney and Rumsfield who didn't want probabilities to justify a foregone plan, or certainties to conflict with those plans,it'll take some digging but if you'd like I'll find the reference to Cheneys earlier experience with the CIA.

I agree the war wounded photos was kind of ham handed of Joe,,that's why some flower photos done by an Iraqi might be nice. There's more to what's going on over there than painting schools you know. Flowers are growing.

stan v
05-22-2004, 12:33 PM
Blooming idiot.

05-22-2004, 01:16 PM
If Chalabi was passing intelligence to the Iranians, why would he be doing that? Iraq and Iran are bitter enemies...

05-22-2004, 01:37 PM
Kat,,just like the US where there are different kinds Americans, and Texans, over there there are different kinds of Iranians for Chalabi to work with. Consider the 100,000 of Iranian Shiite pilgrims that came over to Iraq a few months ago.

Boomkin Joe
05-22-2004, 02:06 PM
Ahmed Washington, Ahmed Washington.
Just when I was getting used to it.

05-22-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
If Chalabi was passing intelligence to the Iranians, why would he be doing that? Iraq and Iran are bitter enemies...My enemy's enemy is my freind?

05-22-2004, 02:27 PM
Also, NOBODY really represents Iraq aside from the US occupying forces because at the moment there ain't no indigenous Iraqi state at a practical level. Chalabi isn't Iraq, those beheaders and other terrorists aren't Iraq, the various organized resistance movements aren't Iraq, and so on. Supposedly on June 30 there will officially be an Iraq again, at least according to Bush, so we can all dutifully go back to blaming things on Iraq.