Buy gas today...

[Meerkat]

... for tomorrow, the price may soar! :eek:

[Wayne Jeffers]

On 9/11/2001, I noted the stations that doubled the price when folks (even in Ohio) were filling up in panic following the attacks that morning. Thereafter, I never bought gas again at those stations (one of which had been my "regular" stop for gas.)

I suggest everyone do likewise. Punish those who would try to profit from disasters, man-made or natural!

Wayne

[Meerkat]

No, you're missing the point: this has nothing to do with profiteering.

If the gulf oil platforms that provide 30% of America's oil are significantly damaged or if the port of New Orleons is significantly damaged (where a lot of import oil is landed) or the 135 petro chemical plants and refineries around NO are significantly damaged, we WILL see much higher prices and we COULD see gas rationing.

Just the threat of the storm pushed crude to it's highest price ever on Friday and ABC News reports that traders are "braced" for Monday.

[Steve McMahon]

A quick look at rigzone.com shows 300 oil and gas rigs and production platforms operating in the GOM. :eek:
I assume any in the path have been evacuated.
btw - last week we were paying about 1.15 per liter for gas - around $4.35/USG. Furnace oil I think is running about .72/l = $2.73/USG
I'm buying a few extra cords of wood this year. (wood is now at $90.00/cord in 8 foot lengths)

[Meerkat]

News says platforms are evacuated and are producing (automatically?) only 20% of usual output.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Gas is 95.6 cents today per litre. I would think it's going to stick somewhere around 4.50 cdn a gallon. So it goes.

[Wayne Jeffers]

Originally posted by Meerkat:
No, you're missing the point: this has nothing to do with profiteering. . .Of course it's about profiteering.

The problem is not the supply of crude; there is plenty of excess capacity to supply the US needs for a while. Drilling platforms off the LA coast getting knocked out will have little effect on worldwide oil prices.

The real problem is in the refining capacity. We have no real excess refining capacity. A bunch of U.S. refineries get knocked out and the supply of refined gasoline, etc., in this country gets tight.

Since there will be no rationing or price controls, the price the refiners get will go up. That's the way the market rations items in short supply. Prices are likely to go way up. Yet the cost of producing the refined product will not go up much, if at all.

Cost to refiners unchanged. Sales prices by refiners way up because their competitors are temporarily knocked out. That's profiteering.

Wayne

[Norske3]

Filled up this morning....$2.63.....this afternoon/tomorrow it will be? .....$2.80/2.90?

[cs]

I filled up Sunday night, because I was worried about gas prices. So far though the prices have been holding steady at $2.459 a gallon. I'm afraid by the end of the week I will see a hike.

Chad

[brad9798]

Filled up last night- 2.36/9

[Bob Myers]

Prices here jumped 14 cents a gallon last weekend to $2.999. I guess they were anticipating a price increase and wanted to get a jump on it. I hope they don't go up again later in the week, but I wouldn't be suprised.

[John of Phoenix]

Up a nickle overnight at most stations here.
That's $.35 in the last month.

[huisjen]

Wholesale gas tops $3/gallon on Gulf Coast

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wholesale gasoline prices on the Gulf Coast broke $3 a gallon on Tuesday -- far higher than prices at most U.S. pumps -- as major refineries remained shut after Hurricane Katrina, trading sources said.

This could spell a huge spike in retail prices for drivers throughout the United States in the coming days and in particular those in the Southeast, where prices are typically the lowest in the country.

The spike in wholesale prices from below $2 last Friday came after Hurricane Katrina plowed through the Gulf of Mexico and made landfall near New Orleans, forcing shut at least eight refineries in Louisiana and Mississippi and slowing production from two others.

The shut refineries and plants with reduced production account for about 15 percent of U.S. refinery production.

On Tuesday, a gallon of gasoline traded in the Houston-based Gulf Coast physical marketing hub cost about $3.15 a gallon -- sharply higher than the national average retail price of about $2.60 a gallon.

Traders were reluctant to guess how high the wholesale spike will make prices at the pump but some say it's safe to bet that the price of a gallon of regular self-service gasoline in the United States will top $3 per gallon by next week.

"Retail prices are going to vary among regions but for all practical purposes $3 is a floor," said private oil analyst Jim Ritterbusch.

The spike could spread across other regions of the United States due to the shutdown of two fuel pipelines from the Gulf Coast to the Northeast, including the massive Colonial Pipeline.

"This tightness of supply in the Gulf Coast is going to spread," said Ritterbusch, of Galena, Illinois. He said the shutdown of a major fuel pipeline from the Gulf Coast to the Northeast could push prices up in other regions.

"This thing has tentacles that are going to stretch all over the place," Ritterbusch said.

The Colonial Pipeline carries about 1.3 million barrels per day of gasoline and distillates from the refining hub of Houston along the Gulf Coast through Atlanta, Greensboro, North Carolina, the Washington, D.C. area and terminates at the New York Harbor.

In addition to the refinery shutdowns, about 92 percent of Gulf of Mexico crude oil production was shut on Monday as a result of Katrina, the U.S. Minerals Management Service said, triggering worries that refiners may not have adequate feedstock when they restart.

Citgo Petroleum, a subsidiary of Venezuela's PDVSA, said on Monday it formally requested oil from the U.S. emergency stockpile to keep its refinery in Lake Charles, Louisiana, operating.

A switch to easier-to-produce autumn grade gasoline later this week is expected to bring prices lower, some dealers said.

[ 08-30-2005, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: huisjen ]

[Gonzalo]

A photograph in the Raleigh News and Observer this morning was of a pump in Chicago that was selling regular for $3.65.

[brad9798]

2.699 now today ...

[Memphis Mike]

The highest price I saw here today was 2.75 a gal. with some stations completely sold out. And we have a refinery here.

[Meerkat]

I TRULY hate to say I told you so, but national gas rationing was being mentioned on CNN today. Short of that, gas could rise $.20-$.25 over the next week. That would put regular just over $3.00 in Seattle.

[adampet]

Drove home today from errands. Cumberland Farms $2.94 gal.... Mobil Station just down the road,,,$2.75 gal

Headed back to town to pick up Spouse .......
Mobil Station....

$2.95 gal

I've never seen gas go up $.20 in 20 minutes!!!!!

good thing I work within biking distance.
adam

[WX]

Back during the 70's fuel crisis 4 cylinder cars became all the rage, will we start to see a big jump in sales of hybrid (fuel/electric) cars now?
My last car was a some what worn 92 Ford station wagon but it did run on gas (LPG)...the only good thing about it.

[Ric_Bergstrom]

So tell me something....

Is the tax on gas a percentage of the cost or a fixed amount?

Is the run up of gas prices actually a boon for tax coffers?

If tax is percentage based did we double the cost of gas and double the tax?

If so maybe someone should give some of the tax back?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH yeah right.

[Domesticated_Mr. Know It All]

Gas is $2.69 a gallon everywhere around here it seems. I found a station that was selling it for $2.48 so I filled both cars and the mower can yesterday. ;)
A few guys I work with ,that live in the same neighborhood, have suggested carpooling if prices continue to go up. I thought it was a great idea. :cool:

[LeeG]

what I don't understand is why the gov't isn't providing pork barrell subsidies for fleet vehicles that are significantly more energy efficient like they did for 7,000lb SUVs which aren't. Think of it,,diesel/electric hybrid delivery vehicles. 0-60 in a few days but great from door to door on an electric motor.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

In Canada, 44% of the cost of gasoline is taxes.

We are paying about about 35 cents a gallon US more than you guys.

[Bob Adams]

I went to work at 2:00 Eastern, gas at a Citgo station was $2.59 a gallon. On the way home 10:00 tonight,that same gallon was $3.07. Tell me that isn't profiteering!

[ 08-30-2005, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Bob Adams ]

[Norske3]

VESPA SCOOTER ANYONE?...good business to get into now eh?

HA...and I thought we would'nt see $3 till next summer.

And gas at the docks are always 10, 20 cents higher.

Lota power boats are going to become houseboats.

[ 08-30-2005, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Norske3 ]

[nedL]

Lunch time yesterday, drove past one place, it was $2.64, past the same place 20 minutes later it was $2.86..... Went to fill up last night, while I was standing there pumping it went from $2.67 to $2.82.
Go figure, the prices are up before the storm even has even past here. :rolleyes:

[cs]

On the way in this morning I looked at the prices. The Kangroo has went from a price of $2.459 on MOnday to $2.619 this morning. The Racetrac on the other hand was still holding steady at $2.49. I hear roumours of $0.80 hikes by the weekend.

Chad

[Wild Dingo]

Fueled up this mornin 1.25c per LITRE (times that by 4 to get the US price) News tonight was that it would rise by at least 20 - 30c per litre by weeks end... mmmm whats tomorrow? oh right bloody Thursday! :mad:

Talkin heads sayin some ****e about oil rigs bein damaged bein the cause... yeah right ANY BLOODY EXCUSE!! :mad:

[nedL]

The station that went from $2.64 to $2.86 in twenty minutes yesterday is at $3.06 today!! :eek:

[Keith Wilson]

Gas taxes in every state I know about are a certain number of cents per gallon, not a percentage. Tax revenue should actually drop some from the recent price increases, because people will buy fewer gallons of gas.

[John of Phoenix]

Up another .03 overnight.

The real problem here is a sudden gas SHORTAGE. Circle K, the largest retailer in the Phoenix area, reports 10-15% of their stores are out of fuel. Mobile says a few of their stations are out too. No one seems to know why, as we get most of our fuel from California.

Hints of panic at the stations this morning as everyone rushed to fill up.

[RichKrough]

I got fuel at 10am this morning and paid 3.09 I assumed there would be a big jump overnight, However on my way to Albany I noticed there was not another station selling fuel above 2.85. That station (Stewarts Shop) is usually 2 or 3 cents higher, not a big deal. but today they got me for an extra $6.30 I have been going that store for nearly 10 years for gas,bread and milk. Last time I will go there for anything now.

[Tar Devil]

Cleveland County EMS held an emergency strategy meeting this afternoon to discuss measures for keeping gas in the EMS vehicles during the impending gas shortages. (?)

Later,

Phil

Edited to add: One gas station in Forrest City, NC has closed because they're out of gas, and another in Shelby only has premium.

[ 08-31-2005, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Tar Devil ]

[Concordia..41]

Yeah - that was like good advice on the 28th.

Got any good stock tips?

;)

-M

[rbgarr]

Went to Sears tonight and spotted the cheapest regular gas around at $2.97.9, but it was on the other side of the divided highway. Drove into anothewr station that advertised $2.89.9 only to find they were all out of regular. By the time I was driving back home on that side of the road the price at the first station was $3.17.9.

I found another place at $2.99.9 and filled up:

25 gallons=$75

Groan

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Concordia..41:
Yeah - that was like good advice on the 28th.

Got any good stock tips?

;)

-MDump US vehicle manufacturers and long haul trucking company stocks... and buy a motor scooter! ;)

[Katherine]

Don't see why ya gotta drop the trucking company stocks. If you want to eat, they have to run.

[LisaS]

Suddenly that Honda scooter I bought last year ain't looking so frivolous, and the Honda motorcycle I bought this year either. The scooter gets 80 mpg and the PC gets 50 mpg. Funny, but folks aren't poking fun at my little scooter anymore.

Lisa

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Katherine:
Don't see why ya gotta drop the trucking company stocks. If you want to eat, they have to run.They may not show much of a profit for awhile, running or not. Stock Market is as much about perception as anything else.

[Meerkat]

Matt; That's probably a Honda "Metropolitan" or "Metropolitan II" - no idea why the difference in model names as they seem to be the same scooter.
http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/model_images/Scooters/2005/Metropolitan_Blue_Hibiscus.jpg
$1,849.00 + tax and dealer prep. (Don't forget a helmet!)

Honda's website has all the details, including the MSRP that I've never ever seen a Honda Dealer go under or over.

Since it's a 50 cc model, there's no legal need for a driver's license or motorcycle endorsement, but a motorcycle safety course is a VERY good idea! They are quite cheap and only use up a couple of weekends. Saves on insurance too. BTW, insurance on a scooter for me was $50/year! for a Honda CH-80 80 cc model (which, being over 50 cc engine size, did need a motorcycle endorsement - and still not highway legal!).

Honda Scooters (http://powersports.honda.com/scooters/)

[notwoodbut...]

My friend in the town next door told me that the prices at two of the town's three stations went up 70 cents/gal yesterday from a starting price of about $2.50. Don't know what the other station is doing.
Working from home is getting even easier for me. Especially when it saves me from driving around in my Tahoe.
Luckily I filled up the diesel in my catboat a couple of weeks ago. I should probably make it on that tank for the rest of the season. Oh yeah, I think there's still some more in the Jerry-jug.
Seriously though, I understand the implications of the disaster but you can't tell me this isn't gouging. Eventually, I think that prices will stabilize as some of the emotionality leaves the market.
Problem is, we will pay. and pay. And then we'll pay some more when the cost of any and all goods that are shipped to us goes up with the price of fuel. And the price of all products dependent of petro-products like plastics etc. Oh, by the way, how's it going to feel when you get a bill for $600 for an oil delivery this winter?

[brad9798]

2.999 this morning ... :eek:

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

a cut and paste from Lloyds List:

SIGNS of panic have emerged on the shoreside refining front in Hurricane Katrina’s aftermath, even as Washington said it would tap into the nation’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve to offset oil production losses in the Gulf of Mexico.

The big fear is of a gasoline shortage. Nearly 10% of total US refining capacity is expected to remain out for a “prolonged period”, according to expert consensus culled from the business press.

Major refiners including Murphy Oil, Chevron and ExxonMobil reported late Tuesday that they had not yet managed to reach their Louisiana facilities for a first-hand assessment. Chevron was understood to have begun rationing gasoline provided to wholesalers from its east coast terminals.

Eight refineries were reported shut as of late Tuesday because of the storm. Katrina has flooded areas around several refineries, and possibly flooded refineries themselves. Even if crude oil production in the Gulf of Mexico resumes fast, experts say, there will be no nearby facilities to refine this into petroleum products.

US drivers, gearing up for their traditional driving frenzy at this weekend’s Labor Day holiday, are already reeling under record pump prices. These are likely to cross $3 a gallon within the coming days, experts including the American Automobile Association have warned.

On the crude oil front, meanwhile, the US Minerals Management Service said late Tuesday that 95% of the total Gulf of Mexico crude oil production of 1.5m barrels a day, or 1.42m bpd, and 88% of the normal 10m cu ft per day of natural gas output, or 8.8bn cu ft a day, remained shut.

Experts surveyed in the business press quickly split into camps. One holds that Katrina could spawn the “biggest energy shock since the 1970s”. The opposing view is that “prices may go up and stay there initially, but the refining and oil systems will work themselves out within one week”.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, diesel is £0.97 per litre here.

One of the advantages of high energy use taxes is that they diminish the effect of energy price increases...

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by Matt J.:
That's it, David. The site I saw (same as your link I beleive) didn't give actual fuel efficiency numbers... I'm guessing around 80 mpg? She thought it was adorable.My CH-80 got 100 mpg. It would run more than a month on a 2 gallon fill.

[garland reese]

I am currently in a class with a young man from South America. He'd heard that gas was something like .13 per gallon (or liter??) in Venuzuella yesterday. That might well be a falacy....... but the thought is surely iteresting. I know not of the petroleum industry, but that it takes a huge chunk of change to fill my tanks these days. I'm sure the small domestic well makers will take advantage of the high prices and increase production....another small boom for western Oklahoma I suppose.

[Lurch]

$2.799, $2.899, & $2.999 here. No stations have run out yet, but a couple reported getting low before deliveries arrived.

[Meerkat]

Aug 31, Seattle: $2.85/regular, $3.07/premium. Shell

[jack grebe]

what really sucks is that snowbird season is upon us (almost) and I will soon be heading south
at 8mpg on premium :mad:

[LisaS]

The scooter that David posted is in fact exactly the same as mine, right down to the color. Love it! and yes, it gets approx. 80 mpg, though some claim 90.

Lisa

[John of Phoenix]

Up SIXTEEN cents overnight. A friend was talking to a fuel truck driver as he was filling the tanks at a station this morning. He asked him why prices were going up so fast if we get all our fuel from CA and west TX. The guy said, "They're gouging us. We've got LOTS of gas here in Phoenix, a whole tank farm full of gas. Plain and simple, it's price gouging."

Oh what karma.

[rbgarr]

After I filled up my wife's car this morning and was buying a cup o' joe, another driver drove off without paying. The girl at the counter took down his plate number and called the police. She said it's happening more and more now and they've put in cameras to help discourage it. As I was driving home, there was the guy pulled over by a county sheriff (?) on the outskirts of town.

Today's National Press Club speechmakers predicted that decreased discretionary spending and delay or failure to pay bills may be the routes some take to keep themselves in gas.

Many local businesses' workers can't afford to live here, and so drive from inland towns an hour or more away, consuming a lot of their income. There are lots of Help Wanted signs, and some stores and restaurants are shuttered on days when they would not have been in years past due to the labor shortage. The fuel shock will only exacerbate the problem.

:(

[Beowolf]

At this rate, it will cost me $100/week to go to work this year. With 38 weeks in the school year, that's $3800 post tax. There goes my Master's raise (+$3000 more)

The real issue will be how our district will put gas in the busses. I don't know if they receive subsidies for fuel costs, but our's is, geographically, the largest district in the Lower Penninsula. That translates into a lot of miles that the busses need to run each day.

Jeff

[John of Phoenix]

I got torqued about the price gouging incident and decided to make a complaint.

From the Arizona Attorney General's web site -

Price Gouging: Arizona consumers have no legal protection from price gougers, as the state learned during the 2003 gasoline pipeline break and last year’s flu vaccine shortage. Half the states in the country have laws prohibiting price gouging, and their use has saved millions of dollars for consumers. Florida Governor Jeb Bush successfully used his state’s price-gouging laws to protect Floridians after their hurricanes last year. U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson urged states to use price-gouging laws to protect consumers during the flu vaccine shortage. Arizonans need the protection of a price-gouging law when a disaster disrupts the operation of the free market in our state. No wonder people take justice into their own hands. SCREW YOUR KARMA!!

[Alan D. Hyde]

IF some safe way of walking to school could be devised (for children living within a practicable distance of school), then we could save fuel and bus expense, and considerably increase fitness at the same time.

Alan

[Beowolf]

Alan, I agree whole-heartedly.

Unfortunately, or district brings in students from 4-5 outlying communities. One of the middle schools and two of the elementary schools are within close proximity to the high school. This allows a fair number of students who live in the surrounding neighborhood (easily the most populated area in the district) to walk to school. Unfortunately, all of those outlying communities represent the majority of hte students and so busses need to get out there to bring the students in.

A few years ago we switched from property tax based income for schools to sales tax based income. With the way that our district is laid out, this had a rather negative effect at the time, that unfortunately is becoming more exaggerated with the current hardships that have befallen Michigan.

But life goes on.

Jeff