View Full Version : Politics 9-10-04

km gresham
09-10-2004, 06:42 AM
CBS has stepped in it. Now, who produced those documents for them?


09-10-2004, 06:46 AM
I read somewhere, that Karl Rove planted them. :D

09-10-2004, 06:48 AM
wow,,,this is icky. Remember Kerrys affair with an intern?

km gresham
09-10-2004, 07:01 AM
Karl Rove :D I don't think Carville or clinton can help anymore. Has a candidate ever conceded before the election? ;) :D

km gresham
09-10-2004, 07:10 AM
Anybody wanna bet hillary was behind this? Her only chance for '08 is for Kerry to lose this election. You know how determined she can be! ;)

km gresham
09-10-2004, 07:23 AM
Critical memos on Bush's Guard service faked?

September 10, 2004


A day after CBS News presented documents questioning President Bush's National Guard service, the veracity of those papers is coming into question.

The development comes in a campaign in which charges continue to fly about the authenticity of Bush's time in the Guard and Sen. John Kerry's Web site listing of medals and naval service.

On "60 Minutes II" on Wednesday night, CBS' Dan Rather introduced four documents he claimed were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, 1st Lt. George W. Bush's superior, establishing that Bush failed to meet the standards required by the Texas Air National Guard in the early 1970s.

These appeared to support charges by Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe and Kerry that Bush had been "AWOL" and had failed to meet his Guard commitments.

The documents were presented by CBS as coming from Killian's secret personal files. In them, Killian appears to complain that he was being pressured by his superior officers to "sugarcoat" Bush's substandard performance in his official records and described how Bush had asked him "how he could get out of coming to drill," among other things.

Forgery experts take a look

The morning after the "60 Minutes II" airing, the Internet was buzzing with claims that the documents were forged.

Powerlineblog first aired speculation that there was persuasive evidence from the typefaces and spacing that the documents supposedly prepared in the age of typewriters in the early 1970s showed the unmistakable characteristics of computer printing.

Another blogger, Bill Ardolino at INDC Journal, who had read Powerline, said, "I decided to find a top typeface expert and ran his analysis on my Web site."

Ardolino's expert, Philip D. Bouffard, is a nationally recognized forensic authority in typewriter and electronic typefaces.

Bouffard has the largest collection of full letter impact typewriter specimens in a private collection today. Having worked at NCR and a forensic laboratory for more than 30 years, Bouffard still works with entities such as the State of Ohio on Medicare fraud cases.

Bouffard said the CBS documents appear to have been copied about 10 times in the state he saw them. Nevertheless, he states, "All the documents have been created on the same printer. And the proportional spacing and the common characteristics of numbers like 4 and 7 and letters like lower case c and upper case G are beyond the capabilities of any of the typewriter impact specimens I have in my collection. The centering of headings is also beyond the capabilities of any typewriter I know of."

His conclusion: "It is remotely possible there is some typewriter that has the capability to do all this ... but it is more likely these documents were generated in the common Times New Roman font and printed out on a computer printer that did not exist at the time they were supposedly created."

Bouffard is a registered Democrat planning to vote for Kerry.

In a related story, the Associated Press has reported that the son of Killian, Gary Killian, has questioned the authenticity of the documents as well and said they didn't come from his family.

CBS says it stands by its story and claims that the handwriting and document experts it consulted believe the documents are genuine.

Did CBS make a mistake?

The White House released these documents after obtaining them from CBS and did not question their accuracy, according to AP.

Late Thursday, Matt Drudge reported CBS has launched an internal probe into whether "60 Minutes II" had aired fraudulent documents. According to Drudge, a top CBS source said, "The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake. If we are in error, it will be corrected."

Thomas Lipscomb is chairman of the Center for the Digital Future in New York.

km gresham
09-10-2004, 07:47 AM
Anatomy of a Forgery. It's Karl Rove's fault! :D


09-10-2004, 08:00 AM
Kinda gives the verb Roved a new meaning. :D

km gresham
09-10-2004, 08:04 AM
:D Remember the comic bit where the guy opens the door and hits himself in the face with it? That seems to be the Kerry campaign.

[ 09-10-2004, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

km gresham
09-10-2004, 10:04 AM
Who did CBS use for independant analysts? James Carville and Michael Moore? :rolleyes: smile.gif


[ 09-10-2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: km gresham ]

09-10-2004, 10:33 AM
The "forgeries" are so bad that I hesitate to call them that; I'm not even sure that they should be considered hoaxes. I'm inclined to think that they were originally jokes, and were somehow taken as real by someone who then forwarded them to either the DNC, the Kerry campaign, or CBS, who have staffs young enough, and lacking the military experience, to fall for them. Supposedly there were some at CBS who thought they were not real and refused to air stories based on them, but eventually either Rather or one of his producers managed to get the story through.

Very embarrassing.

I'm inclined to think that it wasn't Rove because the risk of discovery through trackback is just too great.

09-10-2004, 10:48 AM
speaking of politics

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=58&story_id=11689&name=Iraqi+No+2+raps+US%2C+opens+door+to +France

High C
09-10-2004, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by km gresham:
Anybody wanna bet hillary was behind this? Her only chance for '08 is for Kerry to lose this election. She has managed to put her goons in charge of the Kerry campaign.

I thought he was supposed to be the smart one. :confused:

Alan D. Hyde
09-10-2004, 11:45 AM
Obvious phonies. Here are links:





These people are opinionated newsreaders; not true journalists or researchers...


km gresham
09-10-2004, 11:47 AM
High C, what chance does he have against "the smartest woman in the world"? ;)

09-10-2004, 12:01 PM
whew,,good work guys,,I'm going to take it on faith you're all right and there be forgeries. You lost me back in the typewriter histories.
Could you imagine if Kerry used that stuff? Damn that would be as stupid as a president using a forged document to bolster the case for pre-emptive war when talking to the nation/world. Or having a Secretary of Defense develop data mining programs run by ideologes from the American Enterprise Institute to do an end run on the CIA in order to make a causal relation between 9/11 and Iraq. Or an assistant to the SecDef who was providing links to Iraqi refugees for intel that were discredited by the CIA. Or a Sec.Def and his immediate subordinate dismissing generals that provided conflicting analysis on the cost/risk/troop strength for an occupying force.

Kev Smyth
09-10-2004, 12:04 PM

09-10-2004, 12:06 PM
:D :D :D


09-10-2004, 12:10 PM
Chortle & Guffaw! tongue.gif

09-10-2004, 12:36 PM

09-10-2004, 12:44 PM
damned liberal media ,,snicker, snicker, snicker


High C
09-10-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by LeeG:
...Could you imagine if Kerry used that stuff? "IF"? Where do you think CBS got these docs?

[ 09-10-2004, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: High C ]

km gresham
09-10-2004, 01:10 PM
:D Terry McAuliff says the dems had NOTHING to do with them! ;) :D