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LeeG
03-23-2005, 07:45 AM
gotcha,,see why Saivo is so engaging?

Garrett Lowell
03-23-2005, 07:47 AM
Well, let me help you out:

80 Rebels Killed in Clash, Iraq Officials Say

By Qasim Abdul-Zahra
The Associated Press
Wednesday, March 23, 2005; 6:59 AM

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- A raid by U.S. and Iraqi forces on a suspected rebel training camp left 80 militants dead, the single biggest one-day death toll for rebels in months and the latest in a series of blows to the country's insurgency, Iraqi officials said Wednesday.

Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59040-2005Mar23.html)

LeeG
03-23-2005, 07:51 AM
Is this something Congress should really be involved in?

Garrett Lowell
03-23-2005, 07:56 AM
Yes. I say let's send every last one of the Congress and Senate members to Iraq right now. They get free parking at the airport anyway.

uncas
03-23-2005, 07:58 AM
Garrett...they seem to be going there anyway...Fact finding missions what ever the heck that means...I guess a free trip as we are paying the bills. Too bad they are not one way tickets...

Garrett Lowell
03-23-2005, 08:04 AM
Jamie, the "fact finding mission". Yes, I wish we still had that old scam going on here! I have a 100 seat call center in St. Lucia at which I need to do some "fact finding"! Actually, I have had just a bit too much coffee this morning, and I need to walk away from the keyboard for awhile (I had some chocolate-covered coffee beans with my java, and now I'm wired).

uncas
03-23-2005, 08:07 AM
Garrett...yup...know what that means...Had a Turkish student who used to supply me with turkish coffee...I did not drink the stuff in small demitasse cups....LOL.... ;)

LeeG
03-23-2005, 08:54 AM
civilian deaths in Iraq.

Month Reported Deaths
(min-max)
Separate Reported Incidents
May 2003
453-497
17

June 2003
510-538
25

July 2003
559-595
25

August 2003
591-621
21

September 2003
495-509
33

October 2003
430-450
39

November 2003
408-430
46

December 2003
474-491
51

January 2004
512-528
52

February 2004
530-545
37

March 2004
887-918
71

April 2004
1137-1193
42

May 2004
216-236
60

June 2004
307-338
52

July 2004
273-282
80

August 2004
365-407
83

September 2004
464-504
71

October 2004
356-376
68

November 2004
951-1076
84

December 2004
395-414
100

January 2005
421-447
140

February 2005
554-606
136

LeeG
03-23-2005, 05:22 PM
this iraq stuff sure is foggy,,, attacks on US forces down,,attacks on Iraqis aren't. Insurgent camp is a good example of stupid insurgents,,providing a clear military target away from civilians. Misc. news:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/11203191.htm

LeeG
03-24-2005, 09:47 AM
Garrett, like the video of Terri Schaivos eye movements indicating conciousness, AP newswires conveying Pentagon stats may or may not reflect accurately what happens on the ground. I know cynicism is tedious,,but there is precedent for disinformation during times of war, and in this war where Rumsfeld maintains a running battle in perceptions and newwires rely on Green Zone press briefings I don't think that attack is necesarily an indicator of a decisive battle. It may be an indicator that Iraqi troops are getting useful training and the US military has a success story. With the effectiveness of IEDs and kidnappings for sowing insecurity in urban envirnment and the very real experience of Iraqi forces getting decimated by US armor it sure looks unlikely that smart insurgents would isolate themselves into a camp providing a target with little collateral damage.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12645853-23109,00.html

Insurgents control raided Iraq camp
From correspondents in Samarra, Iraq
March 24, 2005
From: Agence France-Presse
UP to 40 fighters were seen today at a Iraq lakeside training camp attacked by US and Iraqi forces a day before and said they had never left, an AFP correspondent who visited the site said.

The correspondent, who went with other journalists to the camp at Lake Tharthar, 200km north of Baghdad, said he saw 30 to 40 fighters there.
The remains of three burnt vehicles were seen on a dusty road leading to the camp in the village of Ain al-Hilwa. A few mud huts were partly destroyed and a few big craters gouged the ground.

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One of the fighters, who called himself Mohammed Amer and claimed to belong to the Secret Islamic Army, said they had never left the base.

He also said only 11 of his comrades were killed in airstrikes on the site.

Iraqi commanders said 85 suspected insurgents were killed in an assault by Iraqi troops and US aircraft on the camp yesterday.

No one was captured and others had fled by boat, he said.

Asked about the presence of rebels at the camp early today, a member of the Iraqi police commandos that took part in the operation said Iraqi and US troops withdrew from the area about 6.30pm Tuesday (2.30am AEDT Wednesday).

Local hospitals said they had received no casualties from the battle

Garrett Lowell
03-24-2005, 01:07 PM
Lee, as far as the Schiavo issue (for lack of a better word), I haven't seen the tapes, and I'm not highly informed. I do know that it's wrong for Congress to have gotten involved, but that's the extent of my knowledge of the situation. My opinion, if I were the one with the feeding tube, is to just let me go. I don't consider that to be living. My wife and I both have living wills with explicit instructions, so if it ever comes to that for either of us, we should be ok, so long as Congress sticks to what Congress is supposed to stick to.
As for the war, I don't doubt that mistakes are being made with respect to body counts. The Iraqi Troops getting training, and the US getting a success story likely sums it up.