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Jack Heinlen
08-04-2005, 10:24 AM
Maribel Cuevas: A Great American

Damned Near The Only One, It Begins To Seem

July 25, 2005

Here, in the home of the free, the land of the brave, and suchlike prattle, I encounter this: “An 11-year-old girl who threw a stone at a group of boys pelting her with water balloons is being prosecuted on serious assault charges in California. Maribel Cuevas was arrested in April in a police operation which involved three police cars and a helicopter.” *

It seems that the rock gashed the little monster’s forehead and, according to the BBC, he needed “hospital treatment.” I suspect this means that he needed treatment that any general practitioner could have given him in his office, but ambulances don’t take people to general practitioners.

Now, if I had a son who was ganging up with other boys to torment a girl who didn’t speak English, or did (apparently Maribel barely did), I’d slap him across the room so hard that he would think he was an astronomer, and the next time the idea of doing such a thing occurred to him, he would reflect, “Maybe this isn’t a good idea. Dad doesn’t seem to like it." No, Dad doesn’t. If he came home with a gash where she had belted him in trying to defend herself, I’d say, “Son, you go to school to learn things. You just did.” Ask and ye shall receive. Actions have consequences. There are things kids need to know that you don’t do, especially boys, who are pack animals.

I said, “Little monster.” In fairness, this isn’t fair. Kids are mean—girls as much as boys, though they go about it differently. A civilizing duty of parents, and of society, is to make clear that there are limits, and what those limits are. One of those limits is that sorry little jerks do not gang up on girls.

But…but…what leaves me gasping in wonderment is the police. First, why the police at all? Schools and parents can’t manage children who haven’t even reached adolescence? What is wrong with these absurd, weak, contemptible, anemic larvae? I can be charitable to sniveling parsnips, yes. I mean, worms are people too. But not when they run the schools like Oprah grubs from under a rock.

When I was a kid in high school in rural Virginia, the principal, Larry Roller, didn’t need cops to control a school full of rowdy country boys. These were kids who could hurt you. They cut cordwood in the mornings. If you don’t know what that means, you need to go to a gym. My girlfriend Gloria, pretty as a flower, could pull a crab boat onto a mud flat by herself, and did. We all had guns.

No serious discipline problems. Ever. Anywhere. The concept was like presidential grammar: unheard of. Nobody bucked Chrome Dome Roller. Anyone who did would have been expelled in three seconds, and would have known better than to go home, ever. His father would be waiting.

How is it that the police department needs three squad cars, an ambulance, and a freaking helicopter to subdue an annoyed girl of eleven? In my many years of riding with the police, I knew them to be men, gutsy, hard-core, willing to go to bad places full of bad people. You might like them or you might not, and you might have reason either way. But they weren’t pansies.

Real cops would be stone embarrassed to arrest little girls on assault charges. Not these cops, though.

Yet the use of police when frightened mushroomy little purported teachers get upset is becoming the custom in American schools. I like this one:

“Yahoo News, Fri Apr 29: “CLOVIS, N.M. - A call about a possible weapon at a middle school prompted police to put armed officers on rooftops, close nearby streets and lock down the school. All over a giant burrito. Someone called authorities Thursday after seeing a boy carrying something long and wrapped into Marshall Junior High.”

Yeah. The kid, one Michael Morrissey, had made a thirty-inch burrito for some sort of assigned project, presumably of preternatural stupidity and unrelated to the purposes of school. Anyway, jalapeños, tomatoes, things like that. Scary things.

Armed officers on rooftops? Snipers? I imagine the chief talking by radio to a swatted-out rifleman.

Chief: “You see him, sergeant?”

Sniper: “Yessir. He’s got the weapon under his arm. It’s wrapped in newspaper. I got a clear headshot. Do I have a green light?”

Chief: “No, not yet. If he does anything threatening….”

Sniper: “Hold on! Hold on! He’s unwrapping the weapon.”

Chief: “Green light! Take him out!”

Sniper. “Roger that. Wait. He’s eating it….”

If I were a cop, and had to take part in something so clownish, I wouldn’t admit it. Instead I’d tell my wife I’d spent the afternoon in a brothel.

These cockamamie stories are legion, like illiterate federal workers. I’ve followed any number of them. A little boy swats a little girl on the backside on the playground, and he is arrested by cops, charged with sexual harassment, and put into compulsory psychiatric counseling. Another kid draws a picture of a soldier with his rifle, and gets suspended. On and on.

What twisted circus of social decay is going on here? Have these people’s minds, if any, been taken over by extragalactic flatworms? That is my guess. We are seeing the first step toward cocooning us. They plan to feed us to their starving wiggly populations on some croaking planet knee-deep in bloodsucking phyla unknown to science. Gurgle gurgle glop.

I’m serious.

Now, I may not know what is really going on, but I sure as hell know what is really not going on. None of this is about security. At least, it is not about security in any sane way, having some minor three-generations-back relation to reality. We are a nation frightened of our daughters of eleven? Are girl kids that dangerous? Does any other country, anywhere, fear its daughters? Give me a break.

It is truly weird. America, the most aggressive nation on the planet, the grr, bowwow, woof superpower, is also the most timid. Sure, I know, aggressive because frightened, the bully terrified by sock-puppets that might wait in the closet. But, my god, a kid with a burrito? In Mexico, where I live, lots of kids have burritos. You can carry one, concealed, without a permit. No helicopters and no snipers.

That’s us. The country of Davy Crockett, John Singleton Mosby, Apollo Thirteen, now somehow scared of our own sprats, unable to teach them to read, absolutely absurd in the eyes of the world. Of course,the schools being what they are, lots of us have never heard of the world. It wasn't always this way. Anyway, I guess the Chinese will be merciful. Maybe they will put us in special homes, with soft walls.

Fred Reed

Katherine
08-04-2005, 11:09 AM
Jack, you thrive on using Fred to stir things up. :rolleyes: I do however, think the incident with the 11 year old girl got blown way out of proportion. If she has to go to court the little brat who started it should be there too.

That said, I still have no desire to move to Mexico and sit around expounding high and mighty opinions about a country that I no longer consider good enough to live in.

Don Olney
08-04-2005, 11:11 AM
Banana Republics
(Steve Goodman, Steve Burgh & Jim Rothermel)

Down to the Banana Republics
Down to the tropical sun
Come the expatriated Americans
Expecting to have some fun
Some of them come for the sailing
Drawn by the lure of the sea
To cure the spirit that's ailing
From living in the land of the free
Some of them are running from lovers
Leaving no forwarding address
Some of them are running marijuana
Some are running from the IRS
Late at night you can see them
In the cheap hotels and bars
Hustling the senoritas
As they dance beneath the stars
Spending the renegade pesos
On a bottle of rum and a lime
Singing give me some words I can
Dance to and a melody that rhymes
Once you learn the native customs
And a word of Spanish or two
Then you know you can't trust them
Because they know they can't trust you
Down in Banana Republics
It is not always as warm as it seems
When none of the natives are buying
Any second hand American Dreams
Expatriated Americans
Are feeling so all alone
Telling themselves the same lies
That they told themselves at home

Beowolf
08-04-2005, 12:46 PM
Oh yeah, that's good stuff.

Two incidents and another 800 words of unreferenced rhetoric. Where would Fred be without the internet?

Jack, I don't really feel one way or the other about 99% of what you post in here. But that's the beauty of this place, we are free to respond or ignore as we choose. But every time you throw this crap in the bilge I can't find a " :rolleyes: " smiley that's big enough to express myself.


When I was a kid in high school in rural Virginia, the principal, Larry Roller, didn’t need cops to control a school full of rowdy country boys. These were kids who could hurt you. They cut cordwood in the mornings. If you don’t know what that means, you need to go to a gym. My girlfriend Gloria, pretty as a flower, could pull a crab boat onto a mud flat by herself, and did. We all had guns.

No serious discipline problems. Ever. Anywhere. The concept was like presidential grammar: unheard of. Nobody bucked Chrome Dome Roller. Anyone who did would have been expelled in three seconds, and would have known better than to go home, ever. His father would be waiting. What purpose does his work serve? To remind us of some grand era of yesteryear that never was? Can't I get the same thing from looking at old Normal Rockwell paintings?

Tell us again, uncle Fred, how you took your beatings in stride and became a better person for them. Tell us about how you could ride your bikes until 10:00 at night without having to worry about anything. What was JFK like in person? I assume that you met him when he came knocking door-to-door to meet everyon in America as presidents did back then. Wasn't it great back when everyone owned a mustang or a GTO? And they were so much safer back then before all that goofy gadgetry like seat belts and air bags. Tell me again how there were far fewer traffic fatalities back then (But don't tell me how many more cars are on the road today).

As for Maribel, yeah, I feel bad for her. I think that things have been taken too far. But not in the sense that Freddy does. She served 5 days in a juvenile center before being released for house detainment (GPS bracelet) awaiting trial. Personally, I think that after the facts got out, she probably should have been released to her parents custoday that day. But of course covering that aspect wouldn't give Fred the opportunity to do what it was that he really wanted to do which was to call a branch of civil service (Law Enforcement in this case) "pansies."

Tell me, Fred, how much information do you think the police had when they responded? By all accounts (I did a little reading myself) the kid was struck in the head by a TWO POUND JAGGED ROCK. Now when I was a kid, I banged my head against the edge of a cabinet in a camper and it bled like a sonuvabitch. I was blinded by blood in the eyes, screaming, terrified, and running around like an idiot from a .5 in cut on my noggin. So this boy comes running home, bleeding all over out his skull, screaming about how he was stoned. How much time do you think mom spent playing Columbo before she dialed 911. Yes, in order for an ambulance to show up, someone had to have dialed 911. Since it was an assault, the dispatch would send police as well, probably all available units. Now that the ambulance is there, they will take the boy to the hospital to get stitched up. Because if they stictch him up right there and it gets infected, mommmy and daddy will sue their shirts off. And now Fred will write some lame-o essay on how we're all a bunch of litigation happy morons. Not like the fine group of people that he's surrounded himself with. (You see, that's the real beauty of this. By leaving the country, he has no need to take a side, he can fire away at will on whomever he feels will gain a bit of readership for him.)


he needed “hospital treatment.” I suspect this means that he needed treatment that any general practitioner could have given him in his office He needed stitches. Something that most general practitioners do not do in their office from my experience.


What is wrong with these absurd, weak, contemptible, anemic larvae? I can be charitable to sniveling parsnips, yes. I mean, worms are people too. But not when they run the schools like Oprah grubs from under a rock. ...teachers and school adimistrators this time.

For in this case, the police were called in "when frightened mushroomy little purported teachers get upset." Here's the real kick in the pants though. It wasn't a little mushroomy purported teacher that got upset. It was a member of the community that saw the kid walk into school with something that they thought looked like it could be a weapon. They police then responded to a possible weapon in a middle school as they had been trained to do. The real beauty of this is that if there had been a shooting, they'd be serving TCBY in hell before Fred passed up the opportunity to blast the police for not responding to that citizen's call soon enough or severe enough. They are, afterall, just a bunch of "pansies."

Clovis News Journal (http://www.clovis-news-nm.com/engine.pl?station=clovis&template=storyfull.html&id=10900)

And could someone please identify the verb in the following sentence?


Not these cops, though. Jeff

Jack Heinlen
08-04-2005, 06:00 PM
Jeff,

A better question is why you find him interesting enough to read and retort in detail?

Fred is a firebrand, no doubt. I like his sense of humor, it pulls no punches. I don't always agree with him, but someone without stricture, who knows the language, saying what is on his mind, is refreshing.

Some won't like him, and it matters not a whit to him, or me.

You don't like his take on this incident? I do. Say some more. How was such a confrontation handled when you were a kid? Three cop cars, a helicopter, felony assault charges filed?

The world has gone mad.

Beowolf
08-04-2005, 07:49 PM
Good question indeed. "Firebrand" is a gentle term for it. To me, Fred's writing promotes middle class, aging white america to fold their arms and "harrumph." What it doesn't promote is a solution.

So today I decided to dig a little deeper and find out for myself. Low and behold, it seems that his take of the Maribel has pretty accurate. Indeed, I had to get to page four of a Google search before I was able to find a somewhat reputable account by the police. Most of what they spoke about was the prolonged detention of Maribel, which I thought was the real wrong.

As for the burrito incident, it seems that he was simply off base in pretty much every respect. I guess my real problem is that he took scenarios where "sitting back and thinking the whole situation through" could potential cause harm. "damned if you do, damned if you don't." On top of that, he took a story that didn't involve teachers and used it to insult teachers. :mad: (Nine times outta ten I can spit the hook out, but every once in a while the barb sets in my jaw.)

As for how such things would be handled at my school. We actually had a situation two years ago. Someone called the police and informed them that a man dressed in camos and carrying a gun case was walking around the neighborhood around the school. The police contacted the school and the school was placed on lockdown. This was a considerable concern for me as when the announcement was made, I was conducting a lab with my class in the hallway of the student entrance, a giant wall of glass separating us from the outside. Anyways, within the hour the lockdown was called off and life was back to normal as it was confirmed that the individual was a National Guardsman, who lived in the neighborhood and was on his way to the armory. So it was much ado about nothing, but at the same time, the system worked. No one panicked and the rest of the day was wholly undisturbed by the incident. Now I realize that the burrito kid was carrying a gun case, but he was already inside the school.

Of course the short answer to why I felt so compelled to respond to today's post at such length was that I simply had time on my hands today while glue was drying. :rolleyes: smile.gif

Take Care

Jeff

Jack Heinlen
08-04-2005, 08:24 PM
It wasn't at school, it was in her front yard. Not that that matters much, school is an extension.

So you're okay with this, an 11 year old in jail for five days, brought up on felony charges of assault for flinging a rock back at her attackers?

I'm trying to place this in context. When I was wee there was a bully in the neighborhood. One day my dear middle brother stood up to him, said no more rock throwing at the wee ones. I'll beat the crap outa you if you keep it up.

The bully went away, stopped his bullying, because someone bigger stood up to him.

No cops, no court, just raw power. The way it was, the way it should be. Parents and siblings saying no.

PatCox
08-04-2005, 08:37 PM
Jack, school officials turn to the police now out of fear of lawsuits. I know from experience. School administrators do the stupidest things, it is true, but I can tell you, they do it because they have a paranoid fear, mostly warranted, of insane lawsuits brought by the parents of little monsters.

The police and prosecutors are protected by strong laws that make it very difficult to sue them for their discretionary enforcement decisions, as with this stupid, insane decision to indict this 11 year old girl.

But school officials are not so protected, and litigious parents can cost a school millions with an insane lawsuit over whatever action the school officials would take. Thats why they tend to "kick the problem upstairs" and call in the police. Once they've done that, they can't be blamed, its the safest course.

I am a lawyer, and in this area, I think the legal system has gone insane, the way it will accomodate these suits against school officials in their efforts to deal with students you rightly call "little monsters."

Beowolf
08-04-2005, 08:46 PM
Jack: You asked me how such situations are handled at my school. I simply replied.

As for Maribel: Read my post.


As for Maribel, yeah, I feel bad for her. I think that things have been taken too far. But not in the sense that Freddy does. She served 5 days in a juvenile center before being released for house detainment (GPS bracelet) awaiting trial. Personally, I think that after the facts got out, she probably should have been released to her parents custoday that day. But of course covering that aspect wouldn't give Fred the opportunity to do what it was that he really wanted to do which was to call a branch of civil service (Law Enforcement in this case) "pansies."I am not okay with her being placed in jail for 5 days. Of course Fred never brought that aspect of the story to light. I did. He only talked about the initial response, which I argue was something that the police had little or no control over. They reacted to the information they had and most likely erred on the side of caution. Of course I have no more information than Fred did, but I'm going to play the other side of the coin.

As for bullies getting bullied out of bullying, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I will agree that the parents need to step in a take action.

Speaking of context, we should both concede that neither of us know the full story of these kids and their families.

Beowolf
08-04-2005, 08:57 PM
Read the article that I linked! The situtation was out of the school's hands from the get-go. It went, civilian caller-police-then school. They simply followed a procedure that would best preserve the safety of the students in what could have been a very dangerous situation.

Let's play Fred's little game:

School Secretary: "Hello, CLovis High School."

Police: "This is officer Billy Bob, please put me throug to the principal."

Secretary: "Right away, sir"

Principal: "Hey officer Bob, what can I do for you?"

Police: "We have received a call that a student in the middle school may be carrying a weapon. The report is of yet unconfirmed, but we need to initiate plan 3 in order to safely determine just what the situation is. We have already dispatched units to the area and are securing the grounds."

Principal: "I understand officer. We'll begin right away and I'll contact you if we find anything before you arrive."

But hey, swing away Fred, they're easy targets, afteral.

Jeff

[ 08-04-2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Beowolf ]

Katherine
08-04-2005, 09:02 PM
I remember being in grade school and at the beginning of each year you took home a form for your parents to sign giving school officials the right to spank you. My mother never hesitated to sign it. Never got spanked at school, but I knew the threat was there. :D

[ 08-04-2005, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Katherine ]

TomF
08-04-2005, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Katherine:
Never got spanked at school, but I knew the treat was there.Ahem. Freud would be proud. :D

Jack Heinlen
08-04-2005, 09:10 PM
I, willingly, concede we don't know the whole picture. I told this story to my brother who used to live in Fresno, and he was chary too, to make a judgement. Fresno is a hotbed of gang violence, mostly Hispanic, but also Asian. So who knows what was going on here?

I live in the last redoubt of Beaver Cleaver, so who am I to comment? But the girl is only 11 years old, fer Christ's sake.

Puzzling, disturbing, says I.

Katherine
08-04-2005, 09:10 PM
:D tongue.gif

Beowolf
08-04-2005, 09:16 PM
Puzzling, disturbing, says I. I agree.

LeeG
08-04-2005, 09:17 PM
have you heard the news today oh boy

Beowolf
08-04-2005, 09:24 PM
but I just had to look...

Katherine
08-04-2005, 09:31 PM
This about the 12 yeasr old girl who stole a car, led police on a chase where guns were fired, and has a mother who threatened to blow up the court house?

Beowolf
08-04-2005, 09:43 PM
WOW! I thought we were just trading beatles lines.

:eek: