View Full Version : Speculation Continues Re: Kerry Discharge

Kev Smyth
10-20-2004, 01:29 AM
OK, political junkies-this may be the "October surprise" from the Bush camp, and if true would be devestating. Lots of reading, lots of unanswered questions.

Kerry Military Discharge Deception
Geoff Metcalf
Monday, Oct. 18, 2004

John Kerry is a thoroughly reprehensible person. When Lynn Cheney commented on Kerry, she said, “This is not a good man.” she was articulating a truism that sadly was a grossly inadequate means of describing the loathsome presidential wannabe.

I recently got a note from my old Battalion Commander asking if there is any substance to the controversy surrounding Kerry’s military discharge. I responded, “You damnbetcha!” I have previously written about questions surrounding Kerry’s discharge (9/10/04 http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/9/9/1 54130.shtml) (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/9/9/154130.shtml)) and the ginned up DD214 (8/23/04 http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/8/23 /95437.shtml). (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/8/23/95437.shtml).) The growing conventional wisdom (in military circles) is that Kerry GOT a discharge but it was other than honorable. He subsequently got Clinton to sign the fix in 2001. HOWEVER, the more egregious aspect is his having been subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice when he met with the commies in Paris. THAT was and is chargeable!

Reportedly, after the slug told a Senate hearing about his meetings with enemy agents, some senior Department of Defense types actually wanted to prosecute him. He was a Naval Reserve officer who had violated an excrement pot full of assorted laws and regulations.
However, the paranoid, dysfunctional Nixon White House allegedly didn’t want to fuel the anti-war gang rhetoric and so they made the strategic and tactical error of ignoring the obvious.

The Navy was p.o.-ed too. They yanked Kerry’s security clearance when it became axiomatic he was a Naval Reserve officer not to be trusted. One retired agent reportedly observed, “Lieutenant Kerry wasn’t cleared to know what time it was!”

The reason Kerry refuses to sign Standard Form 180 and release ALL his records (over a hundred pages still under wraps), doesn’t have ‘jack’ to do with medal inflation and hyperbolized heroics.

President Bush, former Vice President Gore, Senator McCain and others have authorized release of their records ... Kerry won’t!

Kerry’s Honorable Discharge some 30 years after his end of service (March 2001) is suspicious because it is so out of the ordinary.

There are five classes of Discharge: Honorable, General, Other than Honorable, Bad Conduct, and Dishonorable. It smells like Kerry’s ‘first’ discharge was probably no better than a ‘General’ discharge.

It has been suggested (and probably true) that the sandbagged records are loaded with appeal efforts and reports of his having provided “aid and comfort” to the enemy.

The mainstream co-conspirator/enablers media will not be able to ignore THIS elephant in the living room forever. Oh, they will try .... but if you think Clinton was harassed for sexual improprieties with an intern; get ready for a coordinated Military community Tsunami over Kerry’s FULL military record. The Monica mess will compare to a small yellow hole in a Montana snow bank when contrasted with the Kerry conundrum.

When Kerry went to Paris in the summer of 1970, he ‘claimed’ it was for his first honeymoon with heiress #1.
He met with assorted communists to engage in extensive discussions about plans, procedures and how to get the U.S. to surrender to Vietnam…WHILE HE WAS CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED AS A NAVAL RESERVE OFFICER.
Kerry’s covert lobbying were never reported to the Navy.
Kerry was also subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
As a commissioned officer, he was prohibited from making adverse statements against his chain of command or statements against his country, especially during time of war.
Kerry lied under oath against fellow soldiers before the US Senate about crimes committed in Vietnam.
Kerry claimed to be a war criminal on national television. The U.S. Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.
The Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemy!”

The details of Kerry’s military record disaster have been floating through cyberspace for a couple of months thanks to A. L. "Steve" Nash, MAC Ret, UDT/SEAL SEAL Authentication Team.

I called Steve to confirm he had authored the initial litany. You can check out his other efforts at http://www.authentiseal.org Thomas Lipscomb is adding to the compendium in the New York Sun http://www.nysun.com/article/3107.

Lipscomb observed Woodrow Wilson sent former presidential candidate Eugene Debs to prison for even demonstrating for peace negotiations with Germany during World War I.

Ambrose Bierce once observed, “The hardest tumble a man can make is to fall over his own bluff.” John Kerry’s fall is sure to rival Humpty Dumpty.

[ 10-20-2004, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: Kev Smyth ]

Kev Smyth
10-20-2004, 01:44 AM
BY THOMAS LIPSCOMB - Special to the Sun
October 13, 2004

An official Navy document on Senator Kerry's campaign Web site listed as Mr. Kerry's "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" opens a door on a well kept secret about his military service.

The document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Mr. Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers.

According to the secretary of the Navy's document, the "authority of reference" this board was using in considering Mr. Kerry's record was "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163. "This section refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. And it couldn't have been an honorable discharge, or there would have been no point in any review at all. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge.

A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, was asked whether Mr. Kerry had ever been a victim of an attempt to deny him an honorable discharge. There has been no response to that inquiry.

The document is dated February 16, 1978. But Mr. Kerry's military commitment began with his six-year enlistment contract with the Navy on February 18, 1966. His commitment should have terminated in 1972. It is highly unlikely that either the man who at that time was a Vietnam Veterans Against the War leader, John Kerry, requested or the Navy accepted an additional six year reserve commitment. And the Claytor document indicates proceedings to reverse a less than honorable discharge that took place sometime prior to February 1978.

The most routine time for Mr. Kerry's discharge would have been at the end of his six-year obligation, in 1972. But how was it most likely to have come about?

NBC's release this March of some of the Nixon White House tapes about Mr. Kerry show a great deal of interest in Mr. Kerry by Nixon and his executive staff, including, perhaps most importantly, Nixon's special counsel, Charles Colson. In a meeting the day after Mr. Kerry's Senate testimony, April 23, 1971, Mr. Colson attacks Mr. Kerry as a "complete opportunist...We'll keep hitting him, Mr. President."

Mr. Colson was still on the case two months later, according to a memo he wrote on June 15,1971, that was brought to the surface by the Houston Chronicle. "Let's destroy this young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader." Nixon had been a naval officer in World War II. Mr. Colson was a former Marine captain. Mr. Colson had been prodded to find "dirt" on Mr. Kerry, but reported that he couldn't find any.

The Nixon administration ran FBI surveillance on Mr. Kerry from September 1970 until August 1972. Finding grounds for an other than honorable discharge, however, for a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, given his numerous activities while still a reserve officer of the Navy, was easier than finding "dirt."

For example, while America was still at war, Mr. Kerry had met with the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong delegation to the Paris Peace talks in May 1970 and then held a demonstration in July 1971 in Washington to try to get Congress to accept the enemy's seven point peace proposal without a single change. Woodrow Wilson threw Eugene Debs, a former presidential candidate, in prison just for demonstrating for peace negotiations with Germany during World War I. No court overturned his imprisonment. He had to receive a pardon from President Harding.

Mr. Colson refused to answer any questions about his activities regarding Mr. Kerry during his time in the Nixon White House. The secretary of the Navy at the time during the Nixon presidency is the current chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Warner. A spokesman for the senator, John Ullyot, said, "Senator Warner has no recollection that would either confirm or challenge any representation that Senator Kerry received a less than honorable discharge."

The "board of officers" review reported in the Claytor document is even more extraordinary because it came about "by direction of the President." No normal honorable discharge requires the direction of the president. The president at that time was James Carter. This adds another twist to the story of Mr. Kerry's hidden military records.

Mr. Carter's first act as president was a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. Less than an hour after his inauguration on January 21, 1977, while still in the Capitol building, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering it. By the time it became a directive from the Defense Department in March 1977 it had been expanded to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge.

Mr. Kerry has repeatedly refused to sign Standard Form 180, which would allow the release of all his military records. And some of his various spokesmen have claimed that all his records are already posted on his Web site. But the Washington Post already noted that the Naval Personnel Office admitted that they were still withholding about 100 pages of files.

If Mr. Kerry was the victim of a Nixon "enemies list" hit, one might have expected him to wear it like a badge of honor, like many others such as his friend Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the Pentagon Papers, CBS's Daniel Schorr, or the actor Paul Newman, who had made Mr. Colson's original list of 20 "enemies."

There are a number of categories of discharges besides honorable. There are general discharges, medical discharges, bad conduct discharges, as well as other than honorable and dishonorable discharges. There is one odd coincidence that gives some weight to the possibility that Mr. Kerry was dishonorably discharged. Mr. Kerry has claimed that he lost his medal certificates and that is why he asked that they be reissued. But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well. And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S. Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued.

Kev Smyth
10-20-2004, 01:53 AM
"Mr. Kerry has repeatedly refused to sign Standard Form 180, which would allow the release of all his military records. And some of his various spokesmen have claimed that all his records are already posted on his Web site. But the Washington Post already noted that the Naval Personnel Office admitted that they were still withholding about 100 pages of files."

Let's see them! :mad:

10-20-2004, 03:08 AM
Well, here's one little flaw in your ointment: all discharges are honorable unless you've really screwed the pooch. Having a couple of medals and a war zone tour (you lie when you say it's only 4 months) is not even close enough to get you less than an honorable discharge.

Secondly, I was separated from the USNR "Under Honorable Conditions". I have never applied for an actual discharge, but if I did, it would be issued as an Honorable Discharge.

10-20-2004, 06:31 AM

From the first posting: The Monica mess will compare to a small yellow hole in a Montana snow bank when contrasted with the Kerry conundrum.

:D I love a surprise.

High C
10-20-2004, 10:54 AM
A 6 year gap, which happened to end under Carter's amnesty program.

As long as Kerry refuses to release complete service records, this will look suspicious.

I'd think Kerry would want to clear this up....if he can.

10-20-2004, 11:10 AM
yeah,,lesbian, he said lesbian,,can you believe it? lesbian. lesbian. suspicion. suspicion. lesbian. suspicion. Monica. lesbian. affair. suspicion. withheld. release. lesbian. affair.
suspicion. discharge. suspicion. discharge. witheld. suspicion.



Kev Smyth
10-20-2004, 03:11 PM
Gee, LeeG, don't you want to know the truth? Put an end to all this "alternate reality" garbage? Or are you caught up in it yourself? :eek:

10-20-2004, 03:20 PM
Well, I'll take a stab here, a wild guess.....LeeG, are you a lesbian?

I'm lesbian, but a male lesbian.

Alan D. Hyde
10-20-2004, 03:34 PM
A suspicious discharge, eh?

He better have a Doctor look at it.

We wouldn't want Lady Teresa to catch anything bad...