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View Full Version : Economic Indicators Drop (again)



ljb5
10-15-2004, 10:11 AM
Of course this isn't good news, but it is real, so I won't hide my head and pretend that I just don't see.

CNN.com (http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/15/news/economy/confidence/index.htm?cnn=yes)

Consumer confidence was at 94.2 last month. It was expected to fall to 94.0 -- but instead it plunged to 87.5. Much, much worse than expected.

The current conditions index also fell from 103.7 to 99.36.

Most disturbing -- the future expectations index plunged from an already low 88.0 to an abysmal 79.6.

Can we stop pretending that everything is okay and start looking for a way to fix it?

Garrett Lowell
10-15-2004, 01:53 PM
What do you suggest?

Larry P.
10-15-2004, 03:26 PM
Yes but retail sales are up and the market responds.

Little BJ stop trying to be an economist it just isn't working.

web page (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=6516851)

ljb5
10-15-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Larry P.:
Yes but retail sales are up and the market responds. [/URL]The market responds by closing below 10,000 -- a level Bill Clinton first exceeded in 1999.

I think you're suffering from low expectations.

km gresham
10-15-2004, 05:41 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

There, now. Is that the correct response to ljb's posts? ;) smile.gif

ljb5
10-15-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Garrett Lowell:
What do you suggest?Step 1 -- Admit that there is a problem.

Step 2 -- Identify and discontinue policies that cause the problem

Step 3 -- Identify and implement policies that fix the problem.

Step 1 is the important one.

brad9798
10-16-2004, 09:18 AM
Gee, can't you get more academic in your answer, ljb5?

Good Lord, that was about as political of an answer as I've read. Very Kerry-like response.

Let's take it a step further- there is a problem.

Explain your step 2 for us dummies!

smile.gif

ljb5
10-16-2004, 10:46 AM
Baby steps, Brad.

First, we have to admit that there is a problem.

Once we're all on board with that, then we can talk about the intracacies of tax and monetary policies.

But when half of us hide our heads at the mention of bad news, it's pointless to proceed.

brad9798
10-16-2004, 07:01 PM
I admit there is a problem-
I believe we disagree on genesis of said problem.

You still provide not substance whatsoever ... :(

Son, if you worked for me, you'd be fired for that pointless to proceed comment. I don't like cop-outs ...

Hell, with that attitude, we should all just quite ... we're going to die anyway so what's the point!

Oh, and BTW- I don't know if you were thinking of me on the Obama thread ... but I don't flip-flop of folks I like--unless there is ample reason.

imported_Dutch
10-16-2004, 08:34 PM
i just love to watch emotionally insecure impotents, uselessly flaggellate themselves with with comments like

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if you worked for me
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what an ass

ljb5
10-16-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by brad9798:
I admit there is a problem.Great! A step in the right direction!.

Now, let's get Bush to agree...

Okay, that might be asking too much.... let's proceed to step two without him.

Step 2 -- Identify the origins of the problem

When was the last time we didn't have such a problem. What changes have been made between then and now? What is the current situation? Who is in charge?

Kev Smyth
10-16-2004, 09:13 PM
Let's call a summit and discuss the issues involved! Once a consensus is reached, we'll proceed to the solution that makes everyone happy. Yeah, that's the way to do it!! Elect Kerry, the consensus builder!!! :D ;) :D

We're all gonna be rich, fat, and happy!

Even Dutch will walk again- Edwards said so!!! :cool: :D :cool:

Rogue Sailor
10-16-2004, 09:40 PM
Son, if you worked for me, you'd be fired for that pointless to proceed comment. I don't like cop-outs

Maybe the problem with the economy is that a lot of folks spend a bit too much time on the internet instead of doing what they're paid to do. I notice that ljb5 posts a lot of left wing vitriol thoughout the day, every day. But then again, maybee he's retired.

John C. Gresham
10-16-2004, 10:40 PM
He could go spend time on his boat...

Kev Smyth
10-17-2004, 01:16 AM
..... if he had a boat.

brad9798
10-17-2004, 09:09 AM
Relax, Dutch! I wouldn't have hired your complaining miserable butt to begin with! ;)

Let's get this clear, I never said that there was NOT a problem ... ljb5- I just don't entirely focus on the negative like you do.

Here's where we'll part ways-

Folks talk about the economy, increased debt, etc. Yet no one brings up the effects of 9/11 anymore. Ask many folks whose life has changed since then, including mine.

It was the worst instant impact I've ever heard of on the economy ...

I think, although not perfect, Bush was handed a major issue that, like it or not, created dire situations with which he had to deal.

The stock market instantly went to hell ... airlines went to hell, the service sector went to hell ... advertising/marketing (my business) went to hell ...

There are only so many ways to augment/speed recovery from such an event- and it can be considered living for today, and sacrificing tomorrow- it's called putting $$$ back on the streets ... thus, the tax incentives for corporations and individuals.

The economy is slowing recovering ... and will continue to (recover). I think the has been some over-aggression with the numbers, but that that would happen REGARDLESS of who was in the White House.

Now, in defense of (probably) your favorite recent pres., Clinton, I believe he was a great politician, and a great speaker. I also think his smoothness and charisma had so many silly women in this country smitten, that he could get away with just about anything.

I was proven right on this topic several times.

To his credit, he smart enough to ride the wave of success ... and to quietly cut critical budgets based on the feel-good growth and relative peace of the 1990s. I think that our nearsightedness set us up for failure and left us very vulnerable to many things-economic and otherwise.

I feel that we would be in the IDENTICAL situation had Gore been the current president ...

imported_Dutch
10-17-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Dutch:
i just love to watch emotionally insecure impotents, uselessly flaggellate themselves with with comments like

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if you worked for me
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what an ass

brad9798
10-18-2004, 11:21 AM
drinking again Dutch?? :confused:

brad9798
10-18-2004, 02:14 PM
So, ljb5, while you're throwing personal attacks at Kev, where do you stand here?

Any substance yet, or are you just going to give broad brush strokes without any detail??? ;)

km gresham
10-18-2004, 02:16 PM
Show a little respect, Brad! Don't you know the sky is falling? ;) smile.gif

ljb5
10-18-2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by brad9798:
So, ljb5, while you're throwing personal attacks at Kev, where do you stand here?

Any substance yet, or are you just going to give broad brush strokes without any detail??? ;) On the subject of the economic indicators?

I already posted the link (see the top of the page) (http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/15/news/economy/confidence/index.htm?cnn=yes)

brad9798
10-18-2004, 02:25 PM
Our discussion went beyond that ... OR- or you just using links like C&P ... cannot you think on your own???

:rolleyes:

ljb5
10-18-2004, 03:01 PM
Oh, you mean step two?

Identify the current problems.

Tax cuts for the rich have not helped to stimulate the economy because rich people tend to spend less of each additional dollar than poor people.

Rich people tend to save their money. Poor people tend to immediately spend their money.

Poor people also tend to buy domestically made goods (Budweiser, rather than Guiness, Ford, rather than Mercedes.) This stimulates sales and increases domestic employment.

brad9798
10-18-2004, 04:01 PM
Not to nit ... but Chrysler/Mercedes ... Ford/Jaguar/Land Rover/Mazda ...

The distributors are the key for beer ...

That doesn't suppor the argument ...

I DO see what you mean ... I just don't agree.

Art Read
10-19-2004, 07:13 AM
"Rich people tend to save their money. Poor people tend to immediately spend their money."

Just WHERE did you waste your money on an "education" that would imply that money not spent on cheep beer and skittles is "wasted". Have you never heard of principle, raising capital and return on investment, or do you still stuff money under your mattress?