PDA

View Full Version : Attention Mr P Denison.



Wild Wassa
03-17-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Paul Denison:
"Wild Wassa, if you jump the fence one more time my head will spin off.

A good comment which needs explaining.

Paul appologies for not answering your comments on the Boys in Uniform thread that appears to have been axed, Transact the cable provider went down. For two hours.

I'm not against the War against terrorism. I'm against this unjust war against Iraq, and the hypocracy. Even John Webke, head of one of Australia's Security Agencies, resigned last week because the Australian Government had refused to tell the Australian People about what they ( External Security) had identified as the real threat. This has swayed me a fair bit, to feeling the WOMD issue is the smoke screen.

I'm all in favour against the removal of Saddam, his Sons and the 9 senior members of his cabinet, but not obliterating the innocent Iraqi people. I'm not in favour of the US awarding them free passage if they leave the country, also. I believe they should go to trial in the Hague for crimes against humanity.

I do not see this looming war in black and white, like so many. There is no correct side. Each side has much to answer for, even the UN's postulating is just a self interested talk fest in my eyes. It has been 30 years since the UN's resolution for Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories, this resolution seems to be in no urgency to be resolved. What's the need now ? The French are not genuine as well. Nor is China.

I view this war as a battle between the US's Hawks and Doves, the Hawks (the Neo-Cons) have the ear of the President, and are using Iraq as their battlefield. Hence following the Wolfowitz draft Doctrine on Pre-emption. Even the British Minister resigning today had better arguments against the war than his own PM had for the war.

Have a read Sir, of the following two references. Just two bits of investigative journalism from the Australian Broadcasting Commission. Their (the ABC's Four Corners) track record is credible and proven to be accurate, time after time. They the ABC, are considered to be fair and even handed. These are reports from Australia's National Broadcaster and purely Government funded. They have no commercial or political interests swaying them. They are a non-profit Broadcaster. They have been responsible for uncovering many injustices in the past.

'The American Dreamers'
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2003/20030310_american_dreamers/default.htm

'Seven Ways to see a War' http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/default.htm

Warren.

[ 03-17-2003, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

Meerkat
03-17-2003, 08:47 PM
Damn, I wish the British Parliamentary debate on the Iraq war was going to be televised tomorrow! It could be _really_ interesting!

BBC says about Robin Cook's resignation:

The anti-war rebels have finally got what they have so far been lacking - a leader with the ability to scare the socks off the prime minister

[ 03-17-2003, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

Wild Wassa
03-17-2003, 09:02 PM
How does George W Bush know that world terrorism will be reduced with the removal of Saddam ?

These are not the views of the fundamentalists, especially Indonesia and Pakistan.

Australia 'is going to fight', along side the US, it was announced this morning by our Prime Minister. Where as Jack Straw keeps saying, this morning, "Britain will fight if needed ", ?

Warren.

[ 03-17-2003, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

On Vacation
03-17-2003, 09:03 PM
We finally have established who controls the Wooden Boat forum.
http://www.straightdope.com/art/1998/980904.gif

Wild Wassa
03-17-2003, 09:14 PM
Excellent joke Oyster Mike, I'm glad you get it.

Why do the reports from the US, keep saying "Australia is sending 2000 troops to the Gulf ?"

Our service personnel are already there.

Warren.

[ 03-17-2003, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Wild Wassa ]

On Vacation
03-17-2003, 09:30 PM
Waren, maybe you people need another mass murder in your region, sponsored and supported by the only nation in the Arab world that has the funds and sponsors destroying the free and productive society that has allowed for progress to advance a better life stlyle for all. :(

Wiley Baggins
03-17-2003, 09:32 PM
Wild Wassa,

Interesting interview with General Sir Michael Rose. Thanks for the link.

Meerkat
03-17-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Oyster:
Waren, maybe you people need another mass murder in your region, sponsored and supported by the only nation in the Arab world that has the funds and sponsors destroying the free and productive society that has allowed for progress to advance a better life stlyle for all. :( Except, of course, for SAUDI ARABIA!. You remember them? The ones that have a state sponsored worldwide fundamentalist Islam network? The ones that provided 15 of 19 hijackers for 9/11?

Oyster, you are a damned fool. Stop listening to the party line, get the facts and think for yourself!

On Vacation
03-17-2003, 09:40 PM
Oyster, you are a damned fool. Stop listening to the party line, get the facts and think for yourself!

Yes facts. Only 3,000 killed in 9/11 and Bali? yes innocent people from around the world and over 100,000 killed in one mass attack in Irag, by Sadamn. Still waiting for some rational reasoning for this? 24 plus posts of asking and counting.

Meerkat
03-17-2003, 10:00 PM
I can't help it if you're irrational.

Paul Denison
03-17-2003, 10:39 PM
Wild Wassa, sorry, been offline for a while. I thought that post might go poof. I’ll try to respond to some of your points, mostly about the US, as I don’t follow Australia poly.

“How does George W Bush know that world terrorism will be reduced with the removal of Saddam? “

No one has a crystal ball. I find it compelling that Saddam has the weapons of mass destruction (WOMD) and would not hesitate and probably has turned some over to our enemies. Saddam said today that he would start a world war. I believe that if the war commences that Saddam will attack Israel with WOMD, Israel will retaliate with similar weapons. For me this is the most unstable and unknowable of situations. I believe Saddam must be removed now, any hesitation will risk consequences the US public is not prepared for.

Today Daschell said that Bush has failed so miserably that the country stands on the brink of war, then turned around and said that Saddam is a threat and he would still vote yes for UN resolution 1441. This is typical of our politicians, Democrat and Republican. If you tried to raise your children using these duplicitous principles they would grow up with no rudder. No foundation to work from, no confidence in their own thinking. For he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven by the wind and tossed.

“These are not the views of the fundamentalists, especially Indonesia and Pakistan.”

These people already hate us. Enough said there.

“I'm not against the War against terrorism. I'm against this unjust war against Iraq, and the hypocrisy”.

No hypocrisy here, Bush said we area going to remove Saddam, with or without help of the UN. Bush probably made a mistake in going for another UN resolution. He didn’t need one; he was only doing it for our friend Blair.

“I'm all in favor against the removal of Saddam, his Sons and the 9 senior members of his cabinet, but not obliterating the innocent Iraqi people”

The Iraqi people will not be obliterated.

“I do not see this looming war in black and white, like so many. There is no correct side. “

I believe history shows that the correct side is the winning side.

“It has been 30 years since the UN's resolution for Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories, this resolution seems to be in no urgency to be resolved. What's the need now? The French are not genuine as well. Nor is China. “

The UN is disgraced - finished - Once it was once a noble idea.

“I view this war as a battle between the US's Hawks and Doves, the Hawks (the Neo-Cons) have the ear of the President, and are using Iraq as their battlefield”

Your link:
American Dreamers
To these powerful officials and their allies, September 11 was more than a national tragedy demanding vengeance; it presented an opportunity that had to be grasped… to topple Saddam Hussein.

A noble goal.

Peace
Paul

Wild Wassa
03-17-2003, 10:56 PM
Oyster find out for yourself who was responsible for the Bali Massacre, Saddam had nothing to do with it. The links go back to the Indonesian Military, and Islamic fundamentalists Ja Islameer. I doubt whether some of these people have even heard of Saddam and Bin Ladin, before Bali.

I am talking about Islamic Fundamentalism, .... Fundamentalism. All of the Fundamentalists in SE Asia have made definite statements about what invading Iraq means to their religion. Why won't you admit that this is what they are saying. Oyster.

I even watched Croatian News today. To try and find more answers.

Why do you dismiss what happened in Indonesia this week. Look outside your own country Oyster, you're not the only bleeding hearts. Show some empathy with the rest of the World's people for goodness sakes. Don't throw the guilt trip on me either Oyster. I can make up my own mind as to what is right and what is just propaganda.

The rest of the World's media has stated, that they can't believe how compliant the US press is to G W Bush's narrow views of the world.

I watch the news from all over Oyster. I feel I watch news broadcasts and sentimental propaganda, and can actually differentiate between the two.

When I watch anything from the US it is only self interest without empathy or understanding of anyone else's needs or whether your Administration gives a stuff.

You don't seem to be able to tell the difference between a Nations Government and just basic people who have basic needs.

The American motivations to get rid of Saddam are not the Iraqi peoples motivations to do the same, and if you think that you will be embraced your not looking for answers.

Already Iraqi moderates (outside of Iraq) are disputing everything that George Bush is saying. Comments like, "George Bush can't speak my language and how does he know what my family are thinking."

The arrogance of power is pathetic.

Today Australia was told that the Coalition of the Willing is called the Coalition of the Willing. I just want to say to the US press, … we even have women in Australia, and Televisions, and yes Kangaroos do jump down the street, in my neighborhood.

We even speak English in Australia too.

Rocky
03-17-2003, 11:01 PM
"The UN is disgraced, finished."

Isn't that exactly what Hitler said about the League of Nations? Does the UN exist only to rubberstamp US policy?

This is what's spooky about this war, American rhetoric is changing. It won't stop with Iraq. Success there may be more ominous than failure.

Paul Denison
03-17-2003, 11:07 PM
If the bully on the school yard whips me and the Principal looks the other way, you can bet I'm going to let my Daddy take care of things.

Principal = UN
Daddy = US

Meerkat
03-18-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Paul Denison:
If the bully on the school yard whips me and the Principal looks the other way, you can bet I'm going to let my Daddy take care of things.

Principal = UN
Daddy = USBully = Saudi Arabia. That's why we're going after the bully's next door neighbor? Yeah, it all makes sense to me now! We go after the Italian Mafia because the Russian Mafia sells us good drugs - aka energy.

Yup, we could never go after the people that control our energy - better to steal the other guy's. I'm willing to bet the administration has plans to recover the cost of "liberating" the Iraqis from their oil fields and at (of course!) a fat profit for the contracting companies.

doorstop
03-18-2003, 06:58 AM
Warren, Paul and I guess whoever else is out there. I don't understand all of the politicking, I don't know what the "Right Thing" is any more, all I know is that I have two beautiful sons, one 18 and the other nearly 20. I have an ex-airforce son in law who is the father of my 2 gorgeous grandsons. I don't care about some bloody Iraqi on the other side of the world, I'm a selfish parent who is scared of losing his reason for being..... I don't give a stuff if the Yanks turn Iraq into a sheet of glass, I don't care if the poms flatten every thing taller than a camels turd, I don't care if the Aussies turn every arabian goat there is into barbecue meat...
If they will take us old bastards and use us instead of our children. If they will guarantee my lovely wife the long and gentle life she has earned, if they can ensure me my incredible grandchildren will have their Mum and Dad for life then I would gladly pick up my weapon and do what They demand.
Johnny Howard doing what Dubbya says? Yeah probably.... but we are going to need our arses covered some what severely and more than likely fairly soon so suck up to the bloke that can help us from getting our nuts fried.. Go Johnny!!
Strewth fellas, I have always believed that war is the ultimate obscenity, but I also think that we aren't too far removed from the caveman and at present we seem to be proving it.
Arrrhhhh Buggeritall..............

Rex Fearnehough
03-18-2003, 04:24 PM
Well said Chris.
If I was looking for a gauge to judge the feelings of an enemy and I came across this forum, I would say to my army, advance now, they are still fighting the last election.
We probably wont notice the dying. We'll still be arguing.