Call me crazy. . .

[Wood Guy]

Greetings;

After lurking around in the back of the forum for a while I have decided to join in the fray.

I, along with a few friends, (We collectively amount to no more than a rag-tag group of misfits), have decided to build a wooden boat.

Here are our assets -

A 25,000 square foot shop facility on the ocean.
Copious quantities of high grade coastal softwoods. (Sitka Spruce, Yellow cedar, red cedar and douglas fir.)
Every woodworking tool and piece of equipment known to mankind. (At least, that's what my wife tells me.)
Unbridled enthusiasm, pioneering spirit, all the time in the world and an almost unlimited budget. ;>)

However, we are only lacking one thing. . . none of us has the first clue about boatbuilding. So, if I may, I would like to indulge those of you who are much more knowledgeable than ourselves to assist us along this chosen path.

So, at the risk of sounding crazy, here goes. . .

Our chosen craft will be an all-wood day sailer. Suitable for 3 to 4 people on 3 - 4 hour trips. She (and I assume that all boats are female - aren't they?) must be suitable for novice sailors. (We do have the common sense to take training prior to venturing out by ourselves.) Stable, comfortable and easy to sail.
Now the first decision - Which one? I know. . .I know. . . that's like asking how high is up? However, with all of the choices, there must be one that stands head and shoulders above the rest.

So, there you have it, the first of what promises to be an endless stream of stupid questions. Please bear with me as we walk this path of insanity.

[Steve Lansdowne]

Take a boatbuilding course or two in Port Townsend, WA this summer, and then order plans for the Haven 12 1/2.

[JimConlin]

Buy a wholesome older boat, one that is moderate in all ways and won't cost much to own. Get some training /coaching. Spend lots of time sailing. Learn how to maintain it. Sail others' boats. Then you might have the data to decide which boat is right for you.

[jeff pierce]

Originally posted by Wood Guy:

Here are our assets -

A 25,000 square foot shop facility on the ocean.
Copious quantities of high grade coastal softwoods. (Sitka Spruce, Yellow cedar, red cedar and douglas fir.)
Every woodworking tool and piece of equipment known to mankind. (At least, that's what my wife tells me.)
Unbridled enthusiasm, pioneering spirit, all the time in the world and an almost unlimited budget. ;>)
Good lord! With all that going for you, I'd build a whole fleet. Start with a little skiff and maybe stop when you finish the 70' yacht ;) .

I'm seriously green with envy. I share 550 sq ft with a minivan, three lawnmowers, strollers, bicycles...(ad nauseum) and my boatbuilding time starts at about 11 pm when everyone else has gone to bed. :rolleyes:

Can't actually give you any useful suggestions (I don't know sailboats) but good luck on whatever you pick.

[Wood Guy]

Mr. Pierce;

The shop is only about 24,000 square feet too big, but the price was right. You ( and up to 100 of your closest personal friends)are more than welcome to join us here and share our facility.

By way of explanation. . . I have just completed a 2 year foray into the wooden aircraft building business (replica WW2 bi-planes) that fell apart after 9/11. Suffice it to say, after pi***ng away a couple hundred thousand dollars on that fiasco, I did manage to salvage something - The shop and the tools and the "stuff". (wood, glue, etc.)

Perhaps I am jumping from the frying pan into the fire, but at least we'll enjoy doing something for ourselves, rather than for business. Collectively we have decided to take a year or so off to build this and get it sailing.

Call me crazy. . . but it seems like a worthwhile project.

Richard

[Scott Rosen]

Go to the WoodenBoat website, www.woodenboat.com (http://www.woodenboat.com) and follow the links to the books published by WoodenBoat. There you will find several catalogs of study plans. 50 Wooden Boats, 40 Wooden Boats, and 30 Wooden Boats. There are a number of competent daysailors in each of those books.

That's the place to start looking.

[Thaddeus J. Van Gilder]

Wood guy,
I am a boatbuilding teacher....
Do you need one? Of course you need one!!!!!!!
Years ago I looked into wooden aircraft construction as a supliment to the traditional boats I was building, but the insurance scared me away. Did you finish and sell any of your planes?

sounds like you have what you need to get started, you even have the enviable possibilty of lofting the boat, and building the boat NEXT to where you lofted it, so that you can take measurements off of your lofting as you build. That is really nice. I have done it once or twice when I had room.

With that much space, you could build yourself one heck of a small "tall ship"! I have been looking into building a 40 to 50 foot scow schooner in Havre De Grace, MD for a friend of mine (and the local maritime museum maybe)and the lack of building space is what worries me.

Good luck in that endevour, and keep us all informed. You sound like you have the means to produce some fine vessels!

Thad

[nedL]

Need any help? :D My allowable hours sound like Jeff's, but my shop is a whole 100 sq.ft. (Yes, that's 100 -10'x10'), and I have a fixed work bench, shelves & storage cabinets. The net usable floor dspace is about 4 1/2'x6'. It gets a bit cramped when I have the table saw, planer & joiner all inthere at once. OH, I dream of space!!! So when do you start?

[Bruce Hooke]

The first thing you need to figure out is what basic type of construction you want to use. The first basic split is between a traditional approach such as plank-on-frame or lapstrake, and a 'high-tech' approach such as one of the various plywood and epoxy construction methods or cold-molding. Both will produce good boats so it's more a question of what you want to do and what your skills are up for. The traditional methods demand more woodworking skill because you can't fill gaps with epoxy so things have to fit right from the start, but if you've been building wood airplanes I expect your basic woodworking skills are more than adequate. The traditional approaches usually also take more time, however, the trade off is that you get to work with solid chuncks of timber and satisfying things like bronze screws and bolts, rather than lots of plywood and epoxy and chemistry. In some ways, given all the wonderful lumber you have access to it would seem like a shame not to go traditional in your case, but of course the lumber you've got would also work just fine for strip planking or some other more 'modern' approach.

From there a lot of it comes down to finding a boat that grabs your fancy and wins your heart. There a lots of good designs out there but the one that you love is the one that will keep your interest up during the times when you are wondering why you ever got yourself involved in the idea to start with! The designs available from the WoodenBoat store are probably a good place to start because these are all proven designs. As someone else suggested, get yourself a copy of "50 Wooden Boats" because this will give you a lot more detail on the plans available from the WoodenBoat store...

[Wild Dingo]

... sigh... :rolleyes: ... ohhh sigh... soooo much room... sigh... so many tools... sigh... so many... sigh... choices... tis a hard life eh?! :D

Theres a few comes straight to mind... Im not going to mention one of them... sigh... I will just mention that fellow forumite mmd is up your way and if we're real good he may get moving and get the plans all done of Elly... sigh... oh something easier??... mmmmmm Petersons Susan maybe?... easier? haven 12 1/2?... easier still? gosh maybe a stevensons weekender? canoes? kayaks?

Seriously? try whats already been said... its all a matter of taste and theres just so many designs out there... one will grab you by the gronicles and no matter what anyone says that will be the one... and with what you say youve got up there a nice big two master Schooner wouldnt be an impossible dream!... hey and your close enough to some of these fellas that a visit from them to give you a hand wouldnt be out of the question either.

sigh... all that flamin room!!... ooooohhhhh sigh even... :rolleyes:

Have fun! and welcome to the nuthouse!!! :D

Take it easy
Shane

[ 05-24-2002, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[Wood Guy]

WOW!

What a response! I can't tell you how much I appreciate and value your input.

To answer some of the above questions. . . .

TonyH and Scott - Sanity was not a prerequisite to participation in this project. (Good thing as I have little left) Thanks for the recomendation, I will look at those designs.

Mr. VanGilder - Having a boatbuilding teacher would be "simply maaavelous". However, there is a small matter of about 3,000 miles of real estate between us. (and I hate long commutes) Tell you what though. . . when we get down to the "nitty gritty", (whatever the he** that is) I will consider bringing you out here for expert advice and assistance. If you want to build the schooner here, come on down!

NedL - We start as soon as the design has been chosen. I can help you with your space situation if you need a little more room. Heck, the main part (read - clearspan) of the building is 50' wide x 500' long. There is also a full lower floor divided into roughly 50' x 30' shops that is currently unused. I'm quite sure we could find a corner (say. . .10,000 square feet) for you to work in.

Mr. Hooke - "Traditional" seems to be the catch phrase around the shop. I'm quite sure that plywood and cold laminated are perfectly acceptable methods, but we want to steam bend things and bandsaw stuff, and attach boards to a skeleton like the way they did it in the old days. As a matter of fact, one of our crew, (you see, I'm alreading using "boatspeak") thought we might rive the planks out of our log supply rather than saw them on our mill. After giving the notion due serious consideration, (for at LEAST 7 seconds) the idea was kyboshed. We're not quite THAT traditional! As far as learning from our aircraft building venture, I admit that I somewhat understated our collective talents. Personally. . . I am an expert on coastal softwoods. If you need to know ANYTHING about Sitka Spruce, WRC, AYC or D. Fir, get a hold of me and I will be happy to help. My compatriots are all accomplished woodworkers or lumber people. Aircraft construction, fairing and asembly is a high precision, detail oriented process that has an extensive array of protocols and regulations (in building techniques) that require a considerable skill level. Measurements of components are done not with a tape measure but with a vernier caliper; lay-up tolerances are in the +/- 1/64" range (at most). Rib lofting, fuselage trammeling, etc. are precision operations. I suspect that we might have what it takes to assemble a boat. The big problem we have right now is the most difficult one - selecting the "right" design.

Wild Dingo - Having all the room; All the tools; and $0.75 I can get a good cup of coffee at the local cafe. Now. . .having a good design (read - path to follow) gets me on the journey. Right now, I'm high centered at the coffe bar.

[Alan D. Hyde]

There is a REALLY GOOD website for some composite construction people in the Northwest, that do excellent work and build many designs to classic plans.

There are some similarities between aircraft construction and how they build, but I just can't remember their name or web address.

Some one here may be kind enough to post a link for you. I once posted such a link--- a while back--- but can't now find it using this site's search feature.

Alan

[Stan Derelian]

Reading between the lines, I am guessing that you are in the Victoria area. If so, there are about a half a zillion boat people around here that might be willing to trade advice/help/whatever for use of a corner of the building.

You could get in touch with the S.A.L.T people in Victoria as a first step.

[Mr. Know It All]

Wood Guy.......What a great opportunity. So many of us are building or restoring wood boats by ourselves in a small cramped space with no help and borrowed tools. What you have planned sounds like a much more rewarding experience. The best advice I can offer is to start with something easy so you will have success early before everyone gets burned out. I feel restoration of an older wood boat might be easier, and a good learning experience, rather than building for your first project. Either way getting something you can actually use, will be a great motivator for the next project.Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum.
Peace----> Kevin in Ohio

[Jeff H]

I would probably consider building a Lightning. These are fairly easy boats to build. They are reasonably easy to sail, and make nice daysailors. They have enough complexity that they will help you develop boat building skills but are simple enough that they can be built in a reasonably short period of time. There were enough of them around that you can buy good used sails cheaply to learn with. They are a known quantity and so can be resold.

Plan 'B' would be to construct a more modern cold molded design that would still be simpler to build than something like a H-12 1/2 but which will offer desent performance and be more responsive so that you can develop your sailing skills. As much as I love sailing older designs, they are a lousy platform to really learn sail trim and boat handling skills.

Jeff

[whb]

Wood Guy,

It seems to me that the prime requisite is that you enjoy yourself.

Therefore, figure out what you really want to build (don't limit yourself by self imposed doubts). Then go out and find a smaller boat that uses the same techniques. Build the smaller boat, learn the techniques and then have something to enjoy on the water while you are building the larger boat/boats/ship.

Howard smile.gif

[Dan Cavins]

I have no useful information. I am simply responding out of jealousy. Holy cow! My "shop" is, I don't know how big, it depends how you push the crap around. My landlord is a crazy guy, really. The other tenents are crazy. The roof leaks are strateigicaly placed. The plumbing is a large Gatorade bottle, but we do have electric! It is equiped with a couple stray cats and a homeless drunk. Actually the drunk was finaly arrested one night. The cops really liked the boat! Tool situation, growing.
So take that Wood Guy, I'll have more funny stories to tell than you! Truth be told I'm not a bit jealous, life is great. Wood Guy make the most of that opportunity and have a blast. Let us know how it goes. Dan.