A little break from the war and politics (reconstruction of Ohio Valley earth mounds)

[ishmael]

Scientists at the University of Cincinnati are reconstructing the largely destroyed earth-mound cultures of the Ohio valley. They've uncovered an astronomically sophisticated set of peoples that built hundreds of earth mounds in precise alignments with the movements of the heavens. Using ground-penetrating radar and other techniques they're in the process of 'virtually' re-building the system of mounds that has been plowed or paved during the last two hundred years of European settlement.

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,58086,00.html

Pretty cool stuff, much of it in my old stomping ground.

[ 03-19-2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Wayne Jeffers]

Jack,

Nice article, though perhaps a little brief. One statement puzzles me, however:


Today, only two complete structures remain, along with fragments of a dozen others.I don't know if the author is referring to the large serpentine mounds, or what, but there are lots of smaller mounds intact.

There's a small Adena burial mound on the property adjoining mine. It was excavated back in the late 1960's. The artifacts were cataloged, etc., and returned to their original places in the mound. The results of this were published, but I was unable to turn up anything on the internet with a quick search. It's referred to as the Johnson-Thompson Mound, in case we have any knowledgable archaeologists on the Forum. ;) (My deceased wife's family were the Thompsons.)

It is thought that the immediate area where I live was used as a seasonal camp, due in part to some large rock overhangs which would have provided some shelter. My wife said they used to find artifacts when plowing their field in the river bottom. I have a nice stone axe-head from that source on my mantle.

Also, the mounds are somewhat more widespread than the article suggests. I know of several in West Virginia. The city of Moundsville, in the northern panhandle of WV, was named for the mounds in that area.

Wayne

[Mr. Know It All]

Very cool stuff Ish. :cool:

Wayne........My mothers family is from Moundsville,WV. I've been to the top of that mound many times.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

ACB's first rule of archaeology says that the less archaeology a nation has, the more archaeologists it produces.

Libya has two intact Roman cities, Leptis Magna and Sabratha, and no archaeologists to speak of.

British archaeology is a matter of post holes and crop marks....and the USA gets by without even the post holes!

[ishmael]

I'm not sure what she means Wayne. I'm pretty sure Serpent Mound has had nothing except some minor exploratory digging done. Perhaps she's referring to Serpent mound and one other monumental one?

A friend used to live a short walk from Serpent Mound. What a fine walk on a spring day. He was always finding arrowheads in freshly plowed fields.

I only visited once, years ago, but Serpent Mound is a national treasure; unforgetable. I remember feeling, most strongly, that I was in a sacred place.

I wonder what Shawnee and other tribal legends have to say about it and its builders. One would think their 'mythological memories' would have reached back that far; if anyone bothered to record them. Seems to me one of the few European groups to have much of a good relationship to the natives before they were vanquished was a group of Quakers.

[ 03-19-2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Mr. Know It All]

The Grave Creek Mound in Moundsville,WV. was a state park with a museum.

Their website is here---> http://www.wvculture.org/sites/gravecreek.html

more info here----> http://www.wvculture.org/history/mounds.html

[ 03-19-2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Know It All ]

[Rex Fearnehough]

You're now moving into my top interest after my boat.
What sort of artifacts have been found?
On my island we have three broch sites, numerous burnt mounds and a lot of uninvestigated sights.
We also have the traditional politically appointed archaeologist, who will not risk offending the church.
I don't know if you guys have heard of Jarlshof or Scatsta in Shetland.
www.charles-tait.co.uk (http://www.charles-tait.co.uk) or
http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/archsci/depart/resgrp/northisles/scatness.htm
http://www.charles-tait.co.uk/library/archaeology/shetland/brochs/thumbnails/scatness28485_600_jpg.jpg

[Wayne Jeffers]

Kevin,

After the Grave Creek Mound, the second largest in the state is the Criel Mound in South Charleston:

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvkanawh/Early/mound2.gif

This web site has a brief write-up of the excavation of the Criel Mound in South Charleston by the Smithsonian in the 1880's and at the bottom is a link to a map of the many mounds in that area of the Kanawha Valley. http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvkanawh/Early/mound.html

Rex,

Years ago, I read of the artifacts found on the property adjoining mine, but I can no longer remember the details. From what I recall, it was a burial mound which included personal and ceremonial items.

Wayne

[ishmael]

Rex,

It's been years since I visited the museum in Chilicothe, Ohio, but I remember a lot of animal effigies, some carved into stone pipes, some worked in copper. One thing apparent was there were fairly extensive routes of trade. The copper was from the Northern Great Lakes, and there was a beautiful spear point worked in obsidian, the nearest source of which is Wyoming's Yellowstone Valley.

[Dutch Rub]

Originally posted by Mr. Know It All:
Very cool stuff Ish. :cool:

Wayne........My mothers family is from Moundsville,WV. I've been to the top of that mound many times.
Kevin in OhioIsnt that where the WV state prison is? :D

[Mr. Know It All]

The old state prison is still there but closed. It's very old and haunted. That prison was used in the tv show "Fear".

[Roger Stouff]

There was a great debate in the 18th and 19th centuries about who the "Mound builders" were. It was generally believed that the indigenous peoples were too primitive to have constructed such monuments. Thomas Jefferson was among the first to repudiate that notion, and in fact, it's quite likely that while areas like the Serpent Mound may date BACK to 1,700 years, they were probably still being used, enlarged and tended by Mississippian tribes at contact. The natives tended to disclaim any knowledge of things the white man found interesting, especially gold. So it is unlikely that any documentation of those oral histories exist. Suffice it to say, the mound builders were either the people extant at the time, or very recent ancestors in very recent and clear memory.

Perhaps you'd all be interested in learning more about our Louisiana pride as far as archaeological sites go:

http://www.nps.gov/popo/ppphotos/acf24%2Ejpg

You can learn more about this incredible site here:

Poverty Point (http://www.nps.gov/popo/)

Best regards from the Rez,
R

[ishmael]

A link to a very brief piece on recent re-dating of Serpent Mound.

http://www.archaeology.org/9611/newsbriefs/serpentmound.html

[Memphis Mike]

They built the new WV State Prison on top of a mountain right across the river from my hometown of Montgomery. I used to hunt on the land it's built on.

[Rex Fearnehough]

This is the sort of info that I was looking for;

The skeleton lay upon its back, head pointing east, legs together, and arms by the sides. The skeleton wore six heavy bracelets on each wrist. Four other bracelets were found under the head. Also found encased in a mass of mortar-like substance was a spearhead of black flint, which had evidently been wrapped in fabric. The breast of the skeleton had a copper gorget.

The east/west orientation is a common one for this period. Head towards the rising sun. I haven't had the chance yet to look at the links to find out the decorations on the bracelets or the gorget. Anyone have any ideas?
The heavy bracelets were they possibly copper/bronze?
I have a lot of references to this era in Europe and I was wondering if there may be a possible link. You see we are allowed to speculate, the scientists aren't.
I've just tidied my books, hopefully I can untidy them again.

[ 03-19-2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Rex Fearnehough ]

[Rex Fearnehough]

Roger, the word primitive was used in the quote that you provided.
That word primitive is the most anger provoking word that I can ever hear.
The people of that time would have had a better knowledge of their world than most "civilised" people have of our world today.
:mad:

[John Gearing]

Some years back some friends and I visited the Etowah mounds near Cartersville, Georgia (North Georgia). A pretty amazing place. The main mound is a little over 60 feet high and the top has an area of about an acre square. It looks over a plaza around which there are other mounds. They have a nice website: Etowah (http://ngeorgia.com/parks/etowah.html)
The place is a State Park and is fairly well preserved. IIRC some of the display info at the park indicate that when the first Europeans hit the SE coast, the locals told them about inland cities, but that by the time the Euros actually reached the cities (some years later) they were abandoned and the locals claimed not to know who had built them or lived in them. Could have been simply cultural decline, but I've always wondered whether it might have been that those very first contacts introduced European diseases to the native americans, and that the diseases propagated along the trade routes, wiping out the cities of the mound builders.

Rex, ArchNet is about the best site I've found for online archaeology info: archnet.uconn.edu
Even has some online journals! That's where I read "British Archaeology" when I have the time!

[Wayne Jeffers]

Rex,

I was quite impressed by the stated seven-foot, six-inch height of the man to whom you refer, as well as the 19-inch distance between his shoulder sockets. He was a large man!

From what I read on a number of internet sites today, it is likely that the heavy bracelets were copper. As the nearest deposits of copper are several hundred miles distant, it is clear that the Adena were active traders/travelers.

This site has a section on Adena jewelry: http://www.adena.com/adena/ad/ad01.htm

You will find a fair amount of information by searching on "Adena." Another culture of mound builders is known as "Hopewell," and searches on that should also be productive.

Wayne