Varnishing brass

[formerlyknownasprince]

I'm finishing off a "Duffy Dodge" style hatch (as seen in Wooden Boat in mid 1990). Part of the hatch is two brass gutters ( each being half of a split 2" tube) under the hinge. These are visible from underneath, but not easy to get to to polish.

I'm told that varnish works fine. Any opinions?

Ian

[Wild Wassa]

I'd like to but you would probably abuse me, if I did.

Warren.

ps, Without an edit, mask well and use an automotive polyurethane from a can.

[uncas]

igatenby...
Varnishing is the easy man's way method to avoid polishing...The theory is good...keep the metal from oxidizing...So far so good..
But with time, the varnish begins to wear off...UV etc....Then I have discovered, you have a real mess...You start to polish the metal but the polish doesn't break up the remaining varnish...
Hence, the metal looks like ...well you get the picture..
Perhaps the type of varnish used would help...but I ain't gonna experiment.

I only learned my lesson on this after some previous boatowner used varnish on some of the metal fittings...After 7 years, still have some pieces that I can really never get polished to the point I am happy with the outcome.

[formerlyknownasprince]

Thanks guys.

Warren - thanks - I'll go the can route.

(no abuse - no politics - bilge only! I really am a polite chap you know)

Jeff - no great UV where this is - under the ridge pole of the hatch - only exposed to reflected light that has gone through 12mm glass. I'm aware of the peeling issue, but also, it will be very difficult to polish part of the brass. I suppose I should bite the bullet and spend another couple of hundred on chroming. $1,250 on chrome last week $600+ for the bow-roller plate alone - ugh. Oops - mentioning money will mean another dozen Nigerian business proposals tomorrow.

Ian

[uncas]

Chroming BRASS!!!!! :eek:
Ouch!!!!!
jamie

[ 11-09-2005, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[formerlyknownasprince]

Jamie (did I say Jeff earlier?)

Ouch? Why ouch?

[Dan McCosh]

One reasonable solution is to use automotive wheel polish. This is basically an acid-style polish that cleans up brass, with a light coating that reduces oxidation. It slows the oxidation, although doesn't eliminate it. In my house, brass lasts for about a year when coated with the stuff. It's not that durable outdoors, but is pretty good.

[uncas]

I just happen to love brass...

Jamie....Jeff...no problem here but Jeff might mind... ;)

[ 11-09-2005, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: uncas ]

[sdowney717]

Nyalic works great on metals, 100%UV PROOF and on metal lasts up to 10 years.
People who shine up mag wheels and motorcycles are more familiar with this stuff,
but you can just ignore this if you wish.
Many people are stuck on persuing the same old tired solutions to the same old tired problems.
After I coated a bronze hawse pipe with epoxy and then marine varnish after polishing it looked great and within 2 years it all peeled off splotchy and looked ugly.

[uncas]

sdowney717...Yup...that's what happens...

[Torna]

Brass musical instruments face many of the same challenges. I think that the instruments makers use clear lacquer to keep things shiny in the face of sweat, moisture &c. You might check with your local band instrument supplier ....

-leif

[uncas]

Torna..interesting idea...instruments...However, there is a slight difference...I am assuming you would keep your brass instument in a case...protected...So much brasswork on a boat is open to the weather...salt...rain, fog, solvents, cleaners...you name it.
May be worth looking into but...

[JimConlin]

If it's got to be shiny, I think that only chrome or gold are practical.
It's not my money.

[essaunders]

laquer on instrument wears off too. My trombone has several spots that are down to brass. However, where I don't hold the instrument is sill in excellent condition. Of course, I don't often expose it to salt air...

[WoodenBNut]

sdowney717
Nyalic works great on metals, 100%UV PROOF and on metal lasts up to 10 years

Question: Nyalic sounds like a great solution, but where can you buy it and how much is it? I went to www.nyalic.com, (http://www.nyalic.com,) but they don't have any pricing info????

[paladin]

GOLD...ONLY GOLD PLATING WILL DO.....oh I forgot...gold went up from 32 bucks an oz...

[Canoeyawl]

I use wax... melted parrifin applied with a brush
It doesn't last forever, but it sure does slide well!
edited... oops! not sliding hatch

[ 11-09-2005, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Canoeyawl ]

[Jay Greer]

When left to it's own devices, brass turns a lovely shade of green! Other wise, go for the gold.
JG

[uncas]

Actually, I have done just that...and it doesn't look bad...and it can't get any worse.

[maa. melee]

When laser-marking brass plates with serial numbers or whatever, we lacquer the entire plate with a few coats from a spray can. Seems to hold up quite well.

[Ed Allen]

I tried something like that once on a brass mail box and in the spring I made a trip to the hardware store to buy stripper and brass polish.

[LLaver]

Try lanoline grease or straight Penetrol, if the penetrol doesn't work for you at least you can varnish over it.

Lee

[ 11-10-2005, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: LLaver ]

[sdowney717]

Hi WoodenBNut ,

I had to call them for pricing. It is expensive but goes a long ways. It is a water like thin film coating. I want to try it on my wooden transom.
If you call or email them, I am sure you can find out. I also think some motorcycle shops stock it, but it is not a common item.

[sdowney717]

US office is in Georgia? I think.
www.nyalic.com (http://www.nyalic.com)

Nyalic Tollfree: 800-406-9254
Local: 770-333-6630
Fax: 770-333-6153
Email: HBIinc@BellSouth.net

I bet you can skip their clean prep soap, right rinse, whatever they call it...
As long as the surface is clean and dry it would be fine.

[Bob Smalser]

I can't figure out why I'd want to change my favorite "look" of weathered brass and bronze, old, rubbed enamel paint and varnished mahogany.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7711190/101677606.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7711190/101677477.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/7711190/101677192.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4639129/58622485.jpg

Glitz, whether chrome, gold or high-speed paints, may look good at the dock, but traditional looks best on the water. And it's easier and less expensive.

[ 11-10-2005, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[uncas]

Bob...you and I agree...Actually looking through the posts...I think a majority agrees...Leave well enough alone...The tarnished ( weathered ) look is in and does not look bad at all.

[Lewisboats]

Just a suggestion but...Automotive clear coat?

Steve

[Andrew S/Y Rocquette]

I have used my wife's clear nail varnish on my Naval uniform's brass buttons on the theory it's fairly weather-resistant, and if starts chipping or peeling, it's nothing a bit of nail varnish remover won't get rid of.

So far so good, 5 months in...!

[ 11-10-2005, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Andrew S/Y Rocquette ]

[gert]

Bob S:

Could you please tell us what is going on around your CB trunk?

[Bob Cleek]

There are only a few places where brass is suitable on any boat: the bell, the horn, lamps, and clock and barometer casings. That's about it. The limited use allows for proper regular polishing. All else should be bronze. PERIOD! And bronze should not be polished, but rather allowed to weather to a nice patina. Brass is not the proper material for your use here. You should bite the bullet and use bronze. You will be very glad you did. One point I didn't see raised here, which may serve to convince you, is that if your brass slides have any bearing surfaces (the brass slides on something), coating it is pointless because friction will remove any coating very quickly and the resultant debris and rough surface will leave you with a sticky hatch that's tough to open. Do it once, do it right!

[uncas]

Bob...Uncas has a few brass, oil lamps
( inside )...along with the items you mentioned...All winches, winch handles, the pulpit, blocks, etc. are bronze and I don't touch them...AND they look great with the petena they are supposed to have.

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by gert:
Bob S:

Could you please tell us what is going on around your CB trunk?You mean the removable floorboards?

And there are brass alloys that work just fine under marine conditions, and given the price of silicon bronze sheet, I use them for wear strips, rudder plates and other fabrications:


Weldable Corrosion-Resistant Naval Brass (Alloy 464)

A high zinc content provides improved corrosion resistance while maintaining strength. Commonly used for electrical applications such as terminals, fuse clips, and connectors. Cannot be heat treated.

Machinable Corrosion-Resistant Brass (Alloy 485)

You may know this material as high-leaded naval brass. It has the strength and corrosion resistance of Alloy 464 naval brass, with the addition of lead to offer better machinability. Good for use in screw machine products, marine hardware, and valve stems. Not magnetic. Cannot be heat treated.

[formerlyknownasprince]

All else should be bronze. PERIOD! I must admit, I would've if I could've, but it isn't easy to find around here. 1 metre of brass 2" tube was $100 - hate to think what bronze would have cost if I could have found it. Then it took an hour on the milling machine to split it too. The 1990 WB article about this style hatch and the master maker of such hatches (eg for Whitefin, etc) - Duffy Dodge - recommended copper or brass for this purpose.

The items in question are simply rain gutters - not slides. They are in a butterfly-style foredeck hatch. They won't be exposed to grubby fingers at all, as they are a good 7' to 8' above the cabin sole.

Ian

[Richard Smith]

Well . . . the folks at Sterling/Detco have (had ?) a cleaning/etching solution and 2-part poly. clear coat for brass/bronze. I purchased both, but never followed through on using them. Anyone have any experience with the Sterling/Detco metal coating product?

BTW, I'm kinda going "natural" with my brass/bronze with the exception that I wipe it with a product called Corrosion X (http://www.corrosionx.com/) . The metal "tends" to only get dark, but gets very little, if any, of the green. Instead of polishing, I use a 3M pad with the Corrosion X.

[Aramas]

I must be a weirdo. I like bronze and brass green. Shiny green bronze looks awesome. You don't see them breaking out the brasso for bronze statues or copper roofs. They just wash off the bird poo and let it go green.

[sdowney717]

The ancient peoples used to paint their statues to make them look alive.
I dont think they left them green. They would paint stone as well. Letting them go natural is simply the effect of noone caring to keep them up they way they were originally designed to look.

[Dave Hadfield]

I made several fittings/guides for my ketch out of beaten copper. (They work fine for low-strength purposes, BTW)

After making them I put them on a buffing wheel and in seconds had a brilliant shine. It seemed a shame to let that go dull, so I got a can of "Clear Coat" from Tremco, the company that makes Tremclad (which you can find in most hardware stores in Canada.

Clear Coat is designed for non-ferrous metals. It protects from UV. Some of the fittings I put it on were halyard hooks, mounted on the spreaders. It's too awkward to recoat them once installed. So they've had no coating renewal ever since.

The shine is still there 4 years later. That's pretty good, I think. A high-quality coating.