Floor tile adhesive for seams?

[sdowney717]

http://www.wwhenry.com/prod-660.htm

I have used a bunch of this type of adhesive bought from HD for gluing down floor tile. It is water cleanup until it dries, then you have to use mineral spirits, paint thinner etc...

When it dries it is extremely flexible, waterproof and forms a very sticky gummy very soft rubbery substance. At least it seems to remain in this state for ever. The thick dried gooey stuff on the can has not hardened yet.

Any thoughts on this crazy idea?

[Gary E]

That sounds like the stuff I sugested to the fellow glueing down skinny teak to his plywood deck... And I was proptly told to eF off, cuz I dont know sheeeeet... But I'd try it anyway..if I wuz to fool wid skinny teak...

[sdowney717]

I am always thinking of stuff like this.
You can get a large pail of this for a very reasonable price.
I think it would easily stretch with the seams as the planks moved.

[formerlyknownasprince]

Any thoughts on this crazy idea? Couldn't have said it better myself.

Ten years in the flooring industry - and saw plenty of problems with pressure sensitive adhesives.

Ian

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

The biggest investment I give my boat is time. I used tried and true materials because I don't want to repeat the process.

On the other side, I use the best of materials because I am saving money by doing the work myself.... but my time is still valuable.

[maa. melee]

Love the whole thinking outside the box idea, sdowney717, I DO IT TOO! That stuff is very modestly priced. My summer house's kitchen floor was vinyl tile with that stuff underneath on plywood. When we had water damage from frozen pipes and an inch of cold water sitting on the floor for about a week, the tiles popped up cleanly, so cleanly, in fact, they could have been used again. 90% of the adhesive came off the plywood. Granted the adhesive used was probably an older type but I doubt it would perform too well on/in a boat :( .

[ssor]

Your idea is easy to evaluate. make a test board and put it out side for the winter and spring.
Generally the makers of this stuff don't make it any better than it needs to be for the specified job.

[Jagermeister]

Just popped off a parquet floor, preparatory to putting in solid hardwood. Parquet tiles had been there for 20 years. With very few exceptions, most of the tiles popped off cleanly at the mastic, which had solidified and was very brittle. No elasticity. Very little adhesion. The only tiles that held were where the mastic had filled voids in the subfloor, and created a mechanical bond between the irregularities.

IMHO, most subfloor adhesive is not intended to secure the floor, but to quiet squeaks, prevent creep, fill voids, and so foroth.

Bottom line - I wouldn't even use floor adhesive on a parquet floor again, much less a boat.

[kc8pql]

Originally posted by Jagermeister:
...had been there for 20 years. With very few exceptions, most of the tiles popped off cleanly at the mastic, which had solidified and was very brittle. No elasticity. My experience too. Over time it gets hard and brittle.

[sdowney717]

yes old mastic is brittle, but is this stuff the same chemical as the old stuff?
What interests me is the container has sat around now for over a year and the dried spillover in the lid area has not gotten hard or brittle, still as gooey sticky as ever. This stuff changes from water soluble white to a yellow color when it 'cures'. The uncured white stuff in the can is not sticky, it only gets this way after it dries.

[ssor]

Originally posted by sdowney717:
yes old mastic is brittle, but is this stuff the same chemical as the old stuff?
What interests me is the container has sat around now for over a year and the dried spillover in the lid area has not gotten hard or brittle, still as gooey sticky as ever. This stuff changes from water soluble white to a yellow color when it 'cures'. The uncured white stuff in the can is not sticky, it only gets this way after it dries.like I said earlier make up a sample and weather test it. Forty-seven people can tell you that it is wonderful but it is your money, your boat, and your neck.

[Steve Miller]

I am still a boat building rookie with just 3 boats under my belt but after 25 years in the flooring business at the manufacturer end and 9 of that at Dap Industrial I do know flooring adhesives. And boy do I miss the free Weldwood :-(

First the old glues are not anything like the new ones. Flooring glues changed in the mid 80's from solvent base to water base and actually have gotten progressively better since then. The old mastics mentioned above did indeed stick the floor down for a very long time but over the years they oxidize which turns them to powder. Just like metal rusts actually.

Flooring adhesive does indeed fill gaps in the back of the flooring but it mostly sticks down the flooring. The trowels used don't put enough down to be considers gap fillers. Think 15 to 30 square yards per gallon sort of coverage for carpet or vinyl tile. Wood adhesives might go on at 60 square feet per gallon. Still not much glue for gaps. The subfloor is supposed to be flat and smooth first.

The newer resins are basically latex or acrylic and as noted are water clean up before curing and solvent clean up after. They are not water proof in any way however. The pressure sensitive floor tile adhesives mentioned are likely to creep and migrate if they stay wet long enough. Think adhesive oozing up between tiles installed over a concrete slab with a moisture problem. Some of the adhesives turn to snot if they stay wet while carpet tile pressure sensitive adhesive can be washed off with water even after curing. Consider that concrete moisture is one of the industries biggest issues these days with failures costing mucho bucks

Not what I would want between the seams of my clinker boat and pretty much means floor adhesive does not belong in a boat!

The latest generation of floor adhesives points to some interesting thinking for boats however. Oxygen cross linked acrylic adhesives. Really cool stuff. They are one part and will stay happy in the bucket for a long time. Troweling onto the floor introduces the oxygen and starts the crosslinking. After some open time to suck up more the flooring goes down. There are versions of the stuff that will stick solid vinyl sheet goods down to just about anything and a wood floor version being used to glue 3/4" solid oak to concrete. Not even the urethanes will do that.

Not ready for boat use yet but some day the choices of adhesive for us might broaden a lot.

Finally, I can get all the flooring adhesive I want for free and still use epoxy for boats.

[ 11-29-2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Steve Miller ]

[formerlyknownasprince]

Great post Steve.

The problem with a lot of these "great ideas" is that people sometimes pick up on it and go out and do it - and create a disaster. Hopefully, you've put this one where it belongs.

Ian

[TimothyB]

One more thing, if you are looking for $$ savings on seam compound, why not just make your own from linseed oil putty, some bottom paint and some whiting? Its pretty darn cheap.

[gary porter]

A couple of things you might want to consider, Henry does make a good product, will it come off or out when its time for repair? Not sure you want adhesive to glue your planks together. Can you paint the stuff? Many good products out there that are made just for the purpose and that would seem a more reasonable approach. If you want an inexpensive compound then try Portland Cement mixed with Henry's Roofing Tar,,,106 I think. Personally I'd go with a name brand substance that is made just for that purpose and save the money elswhere.
Still,, good to think about such things. Build up a test board, cork it, pay the seams with your floor goo and leave it out for a few years , check a seam every year or so , try to remove it etc.
Have fun
Gary

[sdowney717]

It is really just fun to bang ideas around even if they are ultimately unworkable.
I did email the company and they suggested that the substance is not waterproof but would eventually soften up and wash away. So its only use would be for temporary sealing of a seam. But maybe that is all you would need, on a dry hull with wide gaps, put it on let the planks take up, and the compound would eventually wash away. Anyway if it did wash away, perhaps no harm done to the seams. I hear all the time on this forum about seam edges crushed, ruined by too much aggresive caulking.

[gary porter]

Not a bad line of thinking if the stuff will come out easily. Don't want to wait till it floats away in the water.
Gary

[Frank Wentzel]

Thinking outside the box is great! But then test - test - test. I don't know if $15 a board foot teak and twice that in your time is the most prudent test platform. Also asking the opinion of a group of people who have not done any testing if they think it is a good idea is not going to yield any reliable data. Probably the best place to get informed opinions would be the adhesive manufacturers tech service group. Most reputable manufacturers post some kind of customer service or tech service phone number - try them first.

/// Frank ///