glassing teak

[rrowlands]

Now before anyone goes off the deep end regarding even the suggestion of glassing a wooden boat please read as I would appreciate any opinions or experience with similar problems/solutions.

I'm looking to extend the life of the cockpit seat/lazarette hatches before a major replacement on my Cheoy Lee B30. The contstuction (original) is a frame of teak supporting a panel of teak ply panel covered in teak planking with traditional caulked seams. It was unfinished until about three years ago when I re-caulked and varnished bright. Several cracks in the finish have developed at the seams I believe due to expansion (sun/heat) and excessive flexing due to the thinness of the planking.

I'm thinking about applying a light glass cloth set in epoxy then varnishing to retain the appearance of the wood with some additional structural integrity.

Any thoughts ? Your comments and any similar experience would be greatly appreciated.

[Dan McCosh]

I don't see what would be gained. If the surface is unstable, the glass would probably lift or split. If it is sound, why bother?

[Bruce Hooke]

Dan raised the key question...what is wrong with the cockpit seat/lazarette hatch? A few cracks in the varnish are not a huge deal and if you haven't added some new varnish in three years then it is high time anyway to apply another coat or two...

[kc8pql]

I with Bruce. It's just time to re-varnish.

[ 06-07-2005, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: kc8pql ]

[Jay Greer]

I'll second the motion that glass is not called for and will most likely crack and delaminate as the wood moves.
Sounds like a nice winter project to build new hatches.

[Scott Rosen]

That's overkill to the nth degree. The planks are going to move; that's why you have flexible compound in the seams.

Fiberglass isn't going to stop the movement of the individual pieces.

Even the best varnish will crack eventually under those circumstances.

I would question the wisdom of varnishing the seats in the first place. IMO, you'd be better off leaving the seats bare and using a mooring cover for your cockpit to keep the elements off. (A mooring cover is a good idea under any circumstances.)

If the seats are cracked through, you could make a project out of building new ones or repairing the existing ones.

[ 06-07-2005, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

[Bob Cleek]

I have a Cheoy Lee Vertue with the identical cockpit seats you describe. I am familiar with the Bermuda 30 seats. I rebuilt mine once. They are nicely made, but suffer the problem of the plywood underlayment delaminating over time. Back when, they didn't have the plywood adhesives they have now. The seats will stand disassembly and refastening and regluing with epoxy, and new seam stopping, but eventually they do fall apart. I ended up building new ones. Aside from the standard lifespan of any varnish job, there is little point in trying to varnish laid teak planks. They will move, as will the adhesive stopping between them. A very nice treatment is to simply varnish the outside borders and edges and leave the laid plank bare, bleaching it with oxalic acid as needed. This also has the advantage of keeping your ass in place, rather than sliding on the smooth varnish. As for jumping up on the cockpit seat in a heavy sea and loosing your footing on the varnished planking, well... we don't go there.

[Scott P]

I did what your thinking about to the lazarete hatches on my 69 Yankee Dolphin about 4 years ago. They were solid teak with no plywood with all the seams separated etc. Because they had been sanded so many times they were getting thin so I fiberglassed both sides and varnished. They looked really great for two years then the fiberglass began to separate, so this winter I stripped the fiberglass off of the top and revarnished them. I left the fiberglass on the underside, which looks fine, on to hopefully hold the pieces together. If they separate again it will be time to build some new ones. So do you want to make new ones now or a few years down the road?

[Jay Greer]

"They are nicely made, but suffer the problem of the plywood underlayment delaminating over time. Back when they didn't have the plywood adhesives they have now."

It isn't the adhesivve letting go that causes plywood to delaminate. It is the mechanical action of the two opposing grains that were peeled on a lathe from a log that is supposed to be soaked in a tension release agent. But still one side of the veneer is in tension and the other is in compression. Then the wood is layered in opposing grain orientation. Thermal and moisture expansion and contraction cause the material to eventually tear itself apart. Check out a piece of delaminated ply next time and notice how the glue line still has a thin attachment of wood fibers. In my own humble opinion, plywood has a built in self destruct factor that gives it a short life in comparison to other forms of traditional boat construction.

[PatCassidy]

Glassed teak - now there's an oxymoron?

[Mrleft8]

Teak should be oiled, not varnished, and I have doubts that Glass cloth will stick to Teak very long anyway. If you're looking for shiny bright glossy wood, use Mahogany, and Varnish.

[Tom Robb]

Don't go off? DON'T GO OFF?
Two wrongs, as usual, don't make a right.
Don't varnish teak.
Don't glass teak.
As Dr. Phil (not often enough) says, "What were you thinking?"

[Scott Rosen]

Originally posted by Tom Robb:
Don't go off? DON'T GO OFF?
Don't varnish teak.My 35 year-old all teak boat, with varnished trim, toe rails, hand rails, hatches and pilothouse, would disagree with you.

I would, however, choose to leave exterior teak decks and seats unfinished.

[Tom Robb]

Scott, It's just my opinion.
I know it looks pretty at first, but IMHO it sort of defeats the reason for using teak in the first place.
We have some teak benches in the gardens around our church. The peck-sniffs are forever cleaning off the weathered grey patina so they'll look nice and clean. Again, IMHO, a stupid waste of time.

[ 06-08-2005, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Tom Robb ]

[rrowlands]

Upon a very close inspection I found that the joint is very shallow to non-existant. The cracks are due to there not being enough caulk to withstand the natural expansion due to heat and humidity. I'll route in a proper seam, recaulk and re-finish bright to match balance of boat.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.