Race and IQ

[bukuboy]

Greetings, I realize that the above topic is rather taboo but I figured these wooden boat dudes/dudettes may offer vigorous discussion of the matter at hand. Would it be fair to say that the "ills" of our American society such as crime, illiteracy, poverty, single parent families, illicit drug usage and high school dropout rates, etc are directly correlated with IQ. Example, Blacks have higher poverty rates than whites and asians because their mean IQ is below whites and asians. More violent crime is commited by blacks because their IQ bell curve is to the left of hispanics, whites and asians. Regards ----bukuboy

[ljb5]

I guess it depends on how you define "crime."

Was slavery a crime?

Was segregation a crime?

Was stealing land from the Indians a crime?

Was lying to start a war a crime?

Ken Lay and Bernie Ebbers hurt more people than an entire army of pickpockets and purse snatchers.

After Katrina, some people got all upset about a few poor blacks grabbing some bottles of liqour.

Did anyone get upset about rich, white, politically connected men pocketing tens of millions of dollars in inflated government contracts?

If you look at all the 'legal' things that whites have done, it starts to look like the only crime is getting caught.

[ 12-05-2005, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Oooooooh Jack hurry up I wonder what Fookin Fred Reed would say about this :rolleyes:

[ 12-05-2005, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

[bukuboy]

violent crime like murder, armed robbery, non negligent manslaughter.

[ljb5]

That's just a matter of definition.

That's like asking who's the best baseball player to ever hit above .240, but less than .260 in 1988.

Expand your horizons. If asians are so smart and peaceful, what's up with North Korea and China and Burma and Vietnam and Cambodia and WWII?

Sure, if you leave those out of your definition, you don't have to think about them.

How come almost all serial killers are white men?

How come Hitler and Stalin and Franco and Mussilini were white? Where did the Inquisition and the Crusades and the Consquistadors come from?

[ 12-05-2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: ljb5 ]

[PatCox]

I'm not going to debate you. I am going to have to regretfully admit that you are right. Blacks are inferior. Whites are superior.

Now what? Do you, since you think they are inferior, think they should be allowed to vote? To own property? Are they entitled to civil rights? Should we be allowed to own them as property?

Just wondering where you are going to go when you win this argument.

[bukuboy]

Should the government set a IQ number like 90 such that any immigrant moving to the US must score at least a 90 or higher to live in the US?

[Jagermeister]

Man, I can't believe so many took the bait. This one reminded me of those big fluffy fluorescent pink marabou steelhead lures. :D

[ 12-05-2005, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Jagermeister ]

[ishmael]

I assume Pat is being a bit satirical, but he's on to something. What difference does it make if by all measures the black bell curve is to the left of the white, and white's to the left of Asians? I think it's probably true, from my experience. How do we deal with this stupid measure? I say ignore it. We all are human beings, and worthy of consideration for what we can do, not our test measures.

What is truly racist is requiring that we all be the same.

[bukuboy]

Would it not be a good thing to reduce the "ills" of our society if we could?

[Meerkat]

There is only one race: the human race. Other viewpoints are ignorant. There is no coorelation between skin color and IQ.

[ 12-05-2005, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Originally posted by Meerkat:
There is only one race: the human race. Other viewpoints are ignorant. There is no coorelation between skin color and IQ.Perfect !
If we all possessed genius IQ's this thread should end with that.

[bukuboy]

Perhaps delving into the human genome, now that we have deciphered the genetic code, will allow us to answer the above questions.

[Katherine]

Is this another Dutch persona?

[bukuboy]

Meerkat, If there is no correlation between skin color and IQ why aren't the mean IQs the same for whites blacks and asians.

[Jagermeister]

bukuboy:

You're confusing correlation with causation. Correlation measures association between sets without presumption of a causal relationship. You're implying some causative relationship between race and IQ, and that's just a troll. Give it a rest.

[bukuboy]

Meerkat, If there is no correlation between skin color and IQ why aren't the mean IQs the same for whites blacks and asians.

[Donn]

Originally posted by bukuboy:
Meerkat, If there is no correlation between skin color and IQ why aren't the mean IQs the same for whites blacks and asians.The tests were devised by whites.

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by bukuboy:
Meerkat, If there is no correlation between skin color and IQ why aren't the mean IQs the same for whites blacks and asians.Opportunity and culture. IQ is not just a matter of genetics.

[High C]

Originally posted by Jagermeister:
...You're confusing correlation with causation...Now you've taken the bait yourself! :D

[Jagermeister]

Now you've taken the bait yourself! Should I start a thread on why do fish strike? Aggression or Feeding?

Man, I'm embarrassed to see where I'd come out on THIS thread! :D

[Donn]

Originally posted by Jagermeister:
Should I start a thread on why do fish strike? Aggression or Feeding? Do you know anything about the subject? If so, start the thread.

[Keith Wilson]

http://www.durstproducts.com/products/home.jpg

3:1 odds it's Dutch.

[ 12-05-2005, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[bukuboy]

Is affirmative action a ploy by the government to get the lower IQ folk intermingling with the high IQ folk perhaps in hopes of having offspring that will begin to shift the curve to the right so that the "ills" of society will lessen?

[L.W. Baxter]

Too bad your mother did it with that moron, buky.

[Don Olney]

http://www.taitlifto.net/WishList/BigMouthBillyBass2.gif

[Paul G]

Well I guess if you kidnap and enslave an entire race, screw them over for generations, then house them in ghettos, hang a few upstart ones for fun, generally treat them like scum and deny them a REAL leg up into white society, feed em lotsa drugs and guns while depriving them of education, political representation and hope, as well as setting up a series of uncle tom role models to aspire to, then test em......

I guess you got your proof that you were right all along. Break out the boats boys, ivory coast ahoy!!!

[Jagermeister]

Do you know anything about the subject? If so, start the thread. Nah. All I have are opinions! :D

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

More violent crime is commited by blacks because their IQ bell curve is to the left of hispanics, whites and asians. Regards ----bukuboy Well at least Jack gets to say, once again, how blacks are stupider than whites. Attaboy Buku, just one more reason not to live in the USA. tongue.gif tongue.gif

Why? Because dumb rascist hillbilly ****s like you live there. tongue.gif tongue.gif

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Wait, I take that back, I could live in Mass, Maine, or NY. ;)

[Katherine]

PMJ, we'll gladly export this idiot north.

You could try living in Michigan. Heck we even have a Canadian running the state. :rolleyes:

[ 12-05-2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Katherine ]

[Rick Tyler]

Originally posted by Meerkat:
There is no coorelation between skin color and IQ.There are two great topics buried here. First is the argument that Stephen Gould made, which is "what is race, and does it really exist?" Gould said no. Second, people who self-identify as "black" historically score lower on IQ tests. I don't think any credible psychometrician argues with the results, but they do argue about what it means. Is there something called "intelligence" which is measured by IQ tests, and can "race" be used as a meaningful reification of a group of people? Whole books have been written on these topics. I think it's a fascinating topic, but requires a lot more space and care than it is going to recieve here in the bilge, where it is going to generate more heat than light. In the bilge it's nothing more than a troll topic.

[ 12-05-2005, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Rick Tyler ]

[bukuboy]

Why has the media, the modern day civil rights activists and my government lied to me about the importance, implications and ramifications of race and IQ?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Same reason your daddy lied about just snuggling with you. ;) :D

[Bob Cleek]

Starve a troll or feed a fever?

[ishmael]

Actually, what I said was that it's those who insist on the categories who are unremittingly dumb; insist on leveling. Each of us, dumb and smart, can find a place in this life, or not. It's not up to the government to find it for us.

I'm of middling intelligence, and will be where I am till I die. No program, no government, will make me Japanese, or genius.

But such awareness doesn't fit with your category of me as racist, so, carry on, Petey. I'm sure you will, no matter how numb.

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

or fever a troll.

[bukuboy]

But with molecular biological technologies cannot race be defined with certain racial genetic markers on the genome?

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

What difference does it make if by all measures the black bell curve is to the left of the white, and white's to the left of Asians? I think it's probably true, from my experience. How do we deal with this stupid measure? I say ignore it. Jack, if you can FOR ONE INSTANCE SUBSTANTIATE SUCH AN INCREDIBLY BIGOTED STATEMENT...I'll leave this alone. You seem to be comfortable with this incredibly rascist remark.

White people, in the absence of enslaving, segregating, and creating a second class in society with the black population, would at the very least LOVE to patronize them for being not as intelligent. IT'S BULL****. and worse, it's damaging, rascist bull****.

[ssor]

Every time I take an IQ test I first figure out what the nut that authored the test was looking for and then answer his silly questions. All of these so called IQ tests are contrived by people that don't understand how to defeat them. As far as i am concerned most of the people that compile these tests and the results would not score above average on their own tests.

[bukuboy]

If you gave me a genome and I located certain racial genetic markers on the genome and told you what race the genome came from, and I was more than 99% accurate with my predictions does this suggest that races exist?

[bukuboy]

Would it be fair to say that the African Americans today in the US have higher IQs than where they originally came from because of intermingling with the white race?

[Meerkat]

Originally posted by bukuboy:
If you gave me a genome and I located certain racial genetic markers on the genome and told you what race the genome came from, and I was more than 99% accurate with my predictions does this suggest that races exist?No. There are no "racial genetic markers."

You're an idiot. Go away now.

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Lets try this again :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Meerkat:
There is only one race: the human race. Other viewpoints are ignorant. There is no coorelation between skin color and IQ.Perfect !
If we all possessed genius IQ's this thread should end with that.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

NOW... if we had a discussion about how systemic poverty and it's associated dysfunction, including the areas of nutrition, prenatal care, childhood education before the age of six, to name a few... now then we might find some interesting results.

Amazing what happens when class structure is enforced along racial lines. ;)

[Meerkat]

I predict this thread is going to get Scotted... ;)

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Would it be fair to say that the African Americans today in the US have higher IQs than where they originally came from because of intermingling with the white race? Not if we're talkin about your family. tongue.gif

[bukuboy]

Amazingly, campaigns are in the works to get black women to breast feed to increase the IQs of their babies ---perhaps by 5 IQ points. Studies indicate that 30% of black women breast feed whereas nearly 60% of white women do so. If IQs are not important and not predictive of how a person will do in life why start this campaign?

[Zimmer]

What if your breast milk is full of crack cocaine and marijuana residues?

[Phil Heffernan]

This is so troll...Can we please ignore this guy?

[bukuboy]

Meerkat, your homework for tomorrow is to research "racial genetic markers" ---try the Feb. edition of The Journal of Human Genetics. Tootles for now ---Bukuboy

[Meerkat]

If Zimmer and Bukuboy got married, would it be a gay marriage - or brotherly love? :D

[Zimmer]

Buk u meerkat

[Peter Malcolm Jardine]

Zimmer and Buku are Siamese twins. :D

[Katherine]

They must be from the south. :D

[joejapan]

.
Careful Katherine, that remark was more discriminatory than bukuboy's......... smile.gif

[ishmael]

What difference does it make if by all measures the black bell curve is to the left of the white, and white's to the left of Asians? I think it's probably true, from my experience. How do we deal with this stupid measure? I say ignore it.

Jack, if you can FOR ONE INSTANCE SUBSTANTIATE SUCH AN INCREDIBLY BIGOTED STATEMENT...I'll leave this alone. You seem to be comfortable with this incredibly rascist remark.

-----------------------------------------

Petey, it's you who are the bigot, in the original sense of not acknowledgeing. I can't help that. You've gotta work it out yourself, or not at all.

I just want us all to be who we are, smart, dumb, black, white, Indian, Asian.

The leveling of expectation is the real racism. Take a white cracker with a 90 IQ. You want him to be a genius, I don't.

[ 12-06-2005, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

[Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson )]

Why wait till tommorow when the it's easy to find it now.

All I got to say after reading all this is SO WHAT?


Am. J. Hum. Genet., 76:268-275, 2005
0002-9297/2005/7602-0014$15.00
© 2004 by The American Society of Human Genetics. All rights reserved.

Genetic Structure, Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, and Confounding in Case-Control Association Studies http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v76n2/41839/41839.html

[George.]

Originally posted by bukuboy:
Should the government set a IQ number like 90 such that any immigrant moving to the US must score at least a 90 or higher to live in the US?Never happen... you'd never get any immigrants willing to clean your toilets or vote Republican...

[Garrett Lowell]

Originally posted by Peter Malcolm Jardine:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> More violent crime is commited by blacks because their IQ bell curve is to the left of hispanics, whites and asians. Regards ----bukuboy Well at least Jack gets to say, once again, how blacks are stupider than whites. Attaboy Buku, just one more reason not to live in the USA. tongue.gif tongue.gif

Why? Because dumb rascist hillbilly ****s like you live there. tongue.gif tongue.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Well said, PMJ. It's almost like seeing the same person holding both sides of a conversation......
1st 3 year old (PMJ): "You're dumb and I'm not a bigot!"

2nd 3 year old(bukake boy): "You're dumb and I'm not a bigot!"

Repeat as necessary. Neither will ever realize that they're both bigoted. Grab the popcorn and sit back.

[Phillip Allen]

Here, have a peanut... (and think about it)

[cedar savage]

So, bukuboy, let's see. I'm back in Namibia, tracking diamond thieves thru the desert. I'm pretty smart on anglo I.Q. tests. But I hire a "bushman" who couldn't even read the stupid test, therefore of very low I.Q., to help me find these guys. He's one of the smartest desert trackers you'll ever meet, absolutely brilliant, a genius at his work in his world.

In his world, you're an idiot, severely below average, mentally deficient, and he'd just laugh at you. 'Course in my world, you're still all of these, and I laugh at you.

[Zimmer]

Originally posted by cedar savage:
So, bukuboy, let's see. I'm back in Namibia, tracking diamond thieves thru the desert. I'm pretty smart on anglo I.Q. tests. But I hire a "bushman" who couldn't even read the stupid test, therefore of very low I.Q., to help me find these guys. He's one of the smartest desert trackers you'll ever meet, absolutely brilliant, a genius at his work in his world.

In his world, you're an idiot, severely below average, mentally deficient, and he'd just laugh at you. 'Course in my world, you're still all of these, and I laugh at you.then the alarm went off, and the smell of over ripe milk spurred cedar to the bathroom to brush his teeth

[cedar savage]

Zimmeroodeedoodledutcheedunce: What do you know and how do you know it?

Why did I support your right to post? Must have been the liberal virus that I've been fighting off for a coupla days now.

[troutman]

why do fish strike? there's thw question. when they're keyed in on the hatch like #24 tricos in Pa at the end of summer its #24 tricos or nothing. even the little poly wings and split tail have to be perfect. Likewise early in the season on the WB of the Delaware. If they want Hendrickson emergers that's it. and the butt has to hang low in the water below the wing which can be splayed deerhair. But, other times fish will strike at some big outlandish thing mostly in fact water. They have to hit quick or sorry charlie. But when fish are in moving flat water and a ahtch is going on or flies emerging you have to be dead on. Just my thoughts on why fish strike. Trout that is I don't know salmon.

[Keith Wilson]

But with molecular biological technologies cannot race be defined with certain racial genetic markers on the genome? No. On a molecular level, race is an illusion. Perceived "race" cannot be linked to particular genes. There is more genetic diversity among Africans than the rest of the species put together; not surprising, since that's where we all came from originally. The closer you look, the more "race" appears a cultural construct ratehr than anything biological.

There it is: one serious post and now I'm abandoning this trollfest.

[ 12-06-2005, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[ishmael]

I was taken in when the geneticists told us we are 97% the same as a chimpanzee. Then I read the fine print, and found out we are 92% the same as a hummingbird. smile.gif

There's something that doesn't meet the eye, methinks.

[Dan McCosh]

Last I saw the data, white people do quite well in terms of crime rate, social status, wealth, etc., despite their demonstrably lower average IQ, as documented by Shockley, et al. Race and IQ do not seem to be the determining factor.