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J. Dillon
12-02-2005, 05:48 PM
Ever take one ? I did the other day voluntarily. Managed to tag along on a tour of the FBI facilities in New Haven CT. After going through a elementary screening where they look under the vehicle as well as in it, massive gates opened into the ground . The group had to surrender their individual drivers license in exchange for a visitor badge. We saw little of the facility but each room we passed was clearly labeled in English and brail. One agent went into and explained the extensive display of the weapons and bullet proof vests currently used by the FBI. However the most interesting event was the Polygraph machine looking much like any one sees in various movies TV etc.
The agent explained how the apparatus works and his complete faith in it and the results it gives but he cautioned the operator must relate it all to other factors and the way the questions are phrased. He asked for a volunteer subject and I stepped forward. Nothing personal will be asked just take this piece of paper write a number from one to 11 and pocket it. I did so and then was led off to the polygraph machine room behind a two way mirror just like on TV. The rest of the group could see my reactions I could only see the mirror. The agent rigged me up, three finger attachment to my digits on the left hand, to measure I think sweat. Agent X commented my fingers were callused.. The blood pressure tourniquet was rigged up next, to the right arm. and finally a band around the chest to measure breathing. Pressure was then applied to the tourniquet.
Agent X told me to answer NO to any question . He went down the line 1 to 11 then repeated the numbers randomly covering all numbers again. I answered each time "no" as instructed. My arm was well tingled with the blood cut off by the pressure machine and it was a relief when the test was over. I got off the electrified chair, what it measured I'll never know but I didn't get any jolt.

The rest of the group now assembled in the polygraph room I alone knew the #. Agent X took the graph paper from the machine and taped it to the wall for all to see. He explained the results showing the peaks and lows of the heart, blood pressure, and sweat and when I sniffled and twitched. He hazzarded an educated guess at 11. Puzzled, I looked at the peaks and dips on the graph paper as well knowing the correct # . He asked if I was on any blood pressure medication, I'm not I replied. Then he asked me to display the # to the group as well as him. I hated to embarrass him but it was 9. He never missed a blink as he related a much more extensive test would have given a more positive result. This simple test was inconclusive. Agent X then took from a drawer the read out results of a recent poly graph test where a public servant was tripped up involving political and graft pay offs It sure had sharp peaks and dips any one could see . He also told of the latest lie detector involving brain scans and is 100% of the time right.

JD

Memphis Mike
12-02-2005, 07:25 PM
"The group had to surrender their individual drivers license in exchange for a visitor badge."

As one who is quite familiar with homeland security including at the FBI, I can promise you they ran those licenses while you were on the tour and I bet you now have a "file." ;)

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
12-02-2005, 07:28 PM
I was once wrongfully charged with seven felony counts. :(
A polygraph test cleard me of all the charges. ;)
I was looking at 20 years in prison if convicted. :eek:
At the time I was convinced that a polygraph was voodoo, not science. :rolleyes:
I really had no choice but I was glad I was wrong after the test helped me avoid prison for something I did not do.
I had to re-evaluate my position on the polygraph after that. :D

PatCox
12-02-2005, 08:08 PM
When I was in the private practice of law, my partner was an ex-prosecutor who had a good criminal defense practice.

When the defendant was actually innnocent, he would always offer to have the defendant submit to a polygraph to the police (our court rules allow this, it can only be used to exonerate, not to convict).

Law enforcement people do trust these machines, they will back off and refuse to indict, in some circumstances, if the defendant can pass a polygraph.

Most interesting case, however, involved what I call the "penisometer" or "hardonometer." Had client accused of pedophilia. There is a test involving a device that straps around the penis and measures the degree of arousal. They show the subject a series of photos, women, men, boys, girls, and measure which arouses him. Its absurd, but somewhat respectable, from what I hear. It helped in that case.

Meerkat
12-02-2005, 08:13 PM
Plygraphs are beatable.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
12-02-2005, 09:11 PM
Pat.....I passed that test too (it's called a "plesmagraph") but the !@#$%^&* Judge refused to allow my Lawyer to present that to a jury. :rolleyes:

When I passed the polygraph and my so called victim failed,the prosecutor dropped the charges.
After two and a half years of Hell I got to get on with my life.
I got no apology from anyone. :mad:

Zimmer
12-02-2005, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Memphis Mike:
"The group had to surrender their individual drivers license in exchange for a visitor badge."

As one who is quite familiar with homeland security including at the FBI, I can promise you they ran those licenses while you were on the tour and I bet you now have a "file." ;) Thats the hill billy. Mr Secret Agent Man, or so he pretends.

PatCox
12-02-2005, 10:17 PM
Mr. know it all, from my experience, there is a genuine hysteria, on the level of the salem witch trial hysteria, in the US right now, on the subject of allegations of child sex abuse, and many, many innocent people are harmed terribly by the "believe the children" crowd. Allegations which arise during divorce and custody disputes are particularly suspect.

My partner used that test succesfully more than once.

Glad you were able to prove your innocence. I am sorry that, contrary to our bedrock principle of innocent until proven guilty, you had to do the proving.

Figment
12-02-2005, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by J. Dillon:
We saw little of the facility but each room we passed....I've seen every inch of it.... tongue.gif

paladin
12-03-2005, 08:18 AM
and the polygraph is definitly beatable.....however....the voice stress analyzer is about 90% correct, and the two used together can usually come out right......many, many moons ago we were taught the pro's and con's of those things, before the current "tell what you know" administration.

ishmael
12-03-2005, 09:03 AM
There's a lot of controversy about the efficacy of the plethysmograph as either a predictive or a therapeutic tool.

More than you ever wanted to know from a bit of an odd source, but one that fits my understanding fairly well.

http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/plethysmograph.html

The clinicians I worked with attempting to reform pederasts swore by it, but I always looked at is with a jaundiced eye. It doesn't suprise me that the judge wouldn't allow it.

[ 12-03-2005, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

Katherine
12-03-2005, 09:05 AM
Jack, good to see ya around.

I once dated a guy who swore he could defeat the test.

Stiletto
12-03-2005, 05:13 PM
Was he telling the truth?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-03-2005, 05:28 PM
You dated a guy? wow...

[ 12-03-2005, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Peter Malcolm Jardine ]

uncas
12-03-2005, 05:57 PM
He was an older guy....PMJ...older than both of us... :D

Jack...well, they can't be perfect...as polygraphs aren't allowed in court...
Don't know what the percentage would have to be to make them admissible in court...At least 99%.

[ 12-03-2005, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: uncas ]

PatCox
12-03-2005, 08:21 PM
Katherine, you talking about the lie detecter or the hard-on-meter?

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
12-03-2005, 09:51 PM
Polygraph results CAN be used in court if both sides (defence and prosecutor) agree to a stipulated polygraph test.
As in my case. ;)
Once the prosecutor realized that a jury would hear how stupid they all were and what a shoddy investagation was done and it would probably be in the newspaper and cost him his job, he agreed to quietly drop the charges. :D
I sold my house to pay my Attorney and still have stress related illness to this day. :rolleyes:
Buy hey, I really can't bitch, I came out on top and I'm here to tell you about it. :D
What keeps me awake at night is the knowledge that this can happen in America to any man and if you don't have the money to prove your innocence you get fu....well, lets just say screwed. :(