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jack grebe
01-17-2006, 06:35 PM
that ain't pissed at the U.S. or dubya?
England don't count.....it's an Island :rolleyes:

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 06:36 PM
China

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
01-17-2006, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by jack grebe:
that ain't pissed at the U.S. or dubya?
England don't count.....it's an Island :rolleyes: England is not an island - and a good portion of it is "pissed".

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 06:39 PM
I want some of what Donn's smoking! :D

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jack grebe:
that ain't pissed at the U.S. or dubya?
England don't count.....it's an Island :rolleyes: England is not an island - and a good portion of it is "pissed".</font>[/QUOTE]Ok, it's part of an island! :D

jack grebe
01-17-2006, 06:41 PM
donn ask the incidental causalties that
china is getting a pretty good show as to what the U.S. has

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"England is not an island - and a good portion of it is "pissed"." So what? A good portion of the US is feeling the same way.</font>[/QUOTE]And elections are coming! Hurrah! tongue.gif

jack grebe
01-17-2006, 06:43 PM
I heard that.....and I'm a republican :rolleyes:

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jack grebe:
I heard that.....and I'm a republican :rolleyes: In name only.</font>[/QUOTE]Sayeth the Amityville Hun! :D

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
Don't call me hun.Sorry - Hunn! :D :D :D

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 06:55 PM
Donn Ho! :D

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
01-17-2006, 07:00 PM
So what? A good portion of the US is feeling the same way.Demonstrably true, as to the "So What" question - I really don't know.

I suspect that the real long term effects of this mess will be on the internal politics of the USA and of Britain.

Britain has been taken to war by a leader who lacked the "bottle" ever to explain why - and yet we re-elected the bastard. Now in fairness to the poor confused voters, the principle opposition party have voted with Blair, and against Blair's party, to take us to war - so there was nothing the voter could do to help cure the foul-up.

The turn-out at the last election was around 35%, the voters are dis-satisfied with the entire process and so I suspect that come the next election we may struggle to see a turn-out of 30%.
This is not good for democracy.

[ 01-17-2006, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: P.I. Stazzer-Newt ]

jack grebe
01-17-2006, 07:03 PM
on the bright side, dubya only has a few yrs left
only has time to start what, maybe 2 more wars :(

Bruce Hooke
01-17-2006, 07:06 PM
The government in Pakistan may not be angry at the US or our President, but from what I've heard a large part of the population is pretty angry, although the earthquake relief effor is helping our image there to some degree. Plenty of people in Iraq appear to be pretty annoyed with the US too!

On the other hand, I haven't heard much about Isreal being angry at the US.

At a governmental level countries like Nigeria may not really be that bothered by our actions as long as the oil money keeps flowing. On the other hand, based on recent news reports, people in certain parts of Nigeria are clearly quite annoyed at how petro-dollars get distributed in their country and right or wrong I expect some of that anger gets aimed at the US.

A lot of our traditional allies are certainly not real happy with the US, and that, in my opinion, is a cause for concern.

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"..the poor confused voters.." That's a common comment here. Those of us who approve of Bush/Iraq/Etc., are either confused, or ignorant.
</font>[/QUOTE]Actually, he didn't say what the voters were confused about - it's you putting the cynaide in the pickle. :rolleyes:

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-17-2006, 07:15 PM
Pakistan.
Afghanistan.
Iraq. From Merlot to PCP obviously... :rolleyes:

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-17-2006, 07:16 PM
Those of us who approve of Bush/Iraq/Etc., are either confused, or ignorant. No argument here, except I could think of a few more adjectives....

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"..although the earthquake relief effor is helping our image there to some degree.." I'd certainly think so.</font>[/QUOTE]Offset by bombing.

Another one of Shrubbie's constitutional faux pas.

[ 01-17-2006, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

Wild Wassa
01-17-2006, 07:20 PM
Donn you nearly got it right ... keep guessing.

Obviously you didn't see today's world news and the protests in Pakistan or the comments from the Pakistani Prime Minister. Bludgening Freedom on people because you want their oil or bombing sovereign nations ..."don't a nation full of friends make."

Who in Iraq or Afghanistan likes the US? ... voters who voted because they are sick of being brutalized?

If the US withdrew from Iraq and Afghanistan would your new friends come running? ... I doubt it.

Warren.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-17-2006, 07:20 PM
Yep, Pakistani's looooooooove the US... :rolleyes:

LAHORE, Pakistan (CNN) -- Thousands of people turned out in cities across the country Sunday to demonstrate against Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf and the United States in the wake of a U.S. airstrike that killed 18 people on Friday, as Pakistani parties called for more demonstrations.

Gatherings were taking place in cities including Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar and Karachi and were set to continue all day.

Pakistan's foreign ministry has protested to the United States over an airstrike on a remote village near the Afghan border that killed 18 people but apparently missed its target, Osama bin Laden's No. 2 man, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

Hundreds of residents chanted anti-American slogans Saturday near the targeted village of Damadola.

In Bajour agency, the district including Damadola, tribal leaders said their protest will continue for three days and that shops in the district will be closed.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/01/15/alqaeda.strike/story.pakistan.villagers.protestsatap.jpg

Memphis Mike
01-17-2006, 07:37 PM
Fart fart fart.

uncas
01-17-2006, 07:58 PM
Meer wrote:
And elections are coming! Hurrah!

I say...Whoopie...same ole...same ole...
Just the date has changed...

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Memphis Mike:
Fart fart fart.Quick! Sit on your car's air intake! Think of the milage! tongue.gif :D

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by uncas:
Meer wrote:
And elections are coming! Hurrah!

I say...Whoopie...same ole...same ole...
Just the date has changed...Back to sane government: mixed administration and legislature. That ought to slow Shrubbie down! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

uncas
01-17-2006, 08:08 PM
Meer...yur dreamin'
Politicians are in for life..or until retirement, death, or jail...Kinda like the supreme court justices...So, in an election...once in a while an incumbent loses...a rarity though...otherwise....we will have the same ole same ole...
Except they will have spent millions on their relection campaigns.

[ 01-17-2006, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: uncas ]

Meerkat
01-17-2006, 08:09 PM
As the bug said: weavil see what weavil see! ;)

uncas
01-17-2006, 08:11 PM
History repeats itself....

Jagermeister
01-17-2006, 08:43 PM
The last reputable widespread poll of which I am aware is the Pew poll, taken in 2005. (Pew is generally considered left-center, so I doubt they would inflate the values). Here is a link to the poll: U.S. Image Up Slightly, But Still Negative (http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=247)

Of the countries surveyed, the overall ratings show majority positive opinion of the United States in Canada, Poland, Russia, India, and Great Britain. Majority unfavorable opinions were recorded in the Netherlands, Spain, Germany, France, China, Lebanon, Indonesia, Pakistan Turkey, and Jordan. Omitted from the poll were Latin America, Africa, and much of Asia.

Generally, the U.S. is liked in the former Soviet republics. Opinion of the U.S. is low in some countries that the U.S. has aided, such as South Korea. Israel continues to value the U.S. highly. Mexico, dependent on the U.S. for much of its income, holds an unfavorable view.

Generally, foreign perception of the United States is shaped by many factors, of which the actions of the United States play a relatively minor role, IMO. It appears to me that, frequently, the way the U.S. is viewed in foreign countries is much more a product of their local environment (media, government, etc.) rather than any concrete policy of the United States. This has been visible in some exchanges on the WBF, where people display misconceptions both of U.S. actions and of their own countries' roles on the global stage.

Foreign misperception, coupled with an absence of gratitude on the part of many nations explicitly aided by the United States, lead me to conclude that foreign opinion is probably the last thing that the United States should consider in planning our foreign policy (other than maintaining enough good opinion to be able to sway them to our ends). While on a personal basis, I would wish to receive the good opinion of the international community, and would prefer to maintain good relations where possible (all else being equal), IMO world opinion is too fickle and too arbitrary to be a foreign policy goal. And past experience has shown it gains the United States virtually nothing in lasting good will to help the rest of the world.

As with our personal lives, it is mostly considered better to base our actions on what we feel is right - not what any one else thinks of it.

- Kevin

[ 01-17-2006, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Jagermeister ]

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-17-2006, 10:59 PM
Of the countries surveyed, the overall ratings show majority positive opinion of the United States in Canada, Poland, Russia, India, and Great Britain. Majority unfavorable opinions were recorded in the Netherlands, Spain, Germany, France, China, Lebanon, Indonesia, Pakistan Turkey, and Jordan. Omitted from the poll were Latin America, Africa, and much of Asia.
Canada's recent poll show about 80% disfavour for the Bush administration.

Latin America, Asia, Africa, ... who cares about them anyway right? :rolleyes:

Gary E
01-17-2006, 11:09 PM
Can only think of one that ain't pissed at the U.S. or dubya?

Mexico... cuz shrub dont giva damn about borders...and the border patrol dont either...

George Jung
01-17-2006, 11:30 PM
A quick review of the synopsis (all I have time for at present) is quite interesting; I'd encourage any/all to take a gander.

A few points of interest: India stands out like a sore thumb in terms of +/- opinions on the USA; my bias is, it's directly related to the influx of jobs from the US... and perhaps the negative perceptions by other countries is similarly colored.

I also enjoyed the Canadian opinions; they give a fair amount of insight into the opinions stated here by its' residents. My favorite:


Canadians stand out for their nearly universal belief (94%) that other nations have a positive view of Canada I'll be interested to see if a more in-depth look at the Pew report substantiates that one... :D

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-17-2006, 11:39 PM
It's funny, we're proud of that, and we try to improve on it by being peacekeepers, conciliators and diplomats. I personally believe we don't do enough of it, or spend as much as we should on foreign aid.

Oh, and we're not all diplomats. :D

Generally, Americans are seen here quite positively, but the American government is sometimes very unpopular... umm now, for instance. ;)

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-17-2006, 11:43 PM
and perhaps the negative perceptions by other countries is similarly colored.
Do you think, just for one nanosecond, that perhaps it's because your country behaves like a foreign policy idiot fairly regularly???

I've never met a population that is so obtuse. It's almost beyond reason....

Meerkat
01-18-2006, 04:04 AM
Only about 30% of Americans are obtuse - the rest are Independents and Democrats! ;) :D

George Jung
01-18-2006, 09:43 AM
Good'n, Meer... hehehe..

Let me rephrase that for our Canadian diplomat... :D

All other things being equal (for argument, eh?), note the high regard in which India holds the USA.... in contrast to the opinions of other countries in the region. The large influx of hi tech jobs, to India, from the USA, comes to mind as a possible reason. This Pew poll viewed perceptions; it's subjective, yes? India has a positive view, perhaps colored by the great opportunities via the US...
All other things being equal..

Dan McCosh
01-18-2006, 09:47 AM
Mongolia reportedly is solidly on our side. They recently erected a model of the Statue of Liberty. They are also reviving Ghengis Kahn as a national hero and marketing tool.

Keith Wilson
01-18-2006, 09:54 AM
I've never met a population that is so obtuse. It's almost beyond reason.... Y'know, Peter, now you're starting to irritate me, and God knows I'm no fan of Mr Bush or many of his idiotic policies. He was elected by 33% of eligible voters in the US. While we certainly have our share of obtuse people, some of them in positions of power, some of them posting on the WBF, judging the people of the US by the policies of the current administration is simply not fair. Are all Canadians so self-righteous? I think not.

George Jung
01-18-2006, 01:44 PM
I don't know, Keith; you might want to take a closer look at that Pew study....

And as far as obtuse, I thought that was a reference to a certain Canadian Conservative - the only question I had is: Is it natural, or simply feigned, for the purpose of being a rabble rouser? You have to look at what any individuals motivation is, and for some, it is apparently not for purposes of having an honest discussion.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-18-2006, 01:56 PM
It's mostly feigned. I certainly couldn't claim to rouse your rabble. As far as self righteousness, I certainly can't claim to be right all the time. At least I know how some of my actions affect other people in other countries.

I have found over the last three years on this forum that americans rationalize away much of the destruction their foreign policy causes in the world by simply musing that people must just misunderstand them.

I had quite a positive view of America when I joined this forum. It's changed some. ;)

George Jung
01-18-2006, 01:59 PM
I agree with you, on one point. My opinion of Canadians has changed considerably as well, and I owe that entirely to you. Congrats; you're doing a swell job, Mr. Ambassador.