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Spissgatter W-9
09-04-2004, 11:54 PM
Looking at interior pics of the 39' yawl, it appears that the settee back rests are made of wooden slats fixed to metal frames. Am I correct to assume that they swing down for sleeping accomodations? If so, are they comfortable? Are the metal frames available for purchase? Could they be constructed completely out of wood? Your thoughts are appreciated

rbgarr
09-05-2004, 06:05 AM
Yes, they are very comfortable IMO-

You'd have to contact the Concordia Company to see if they carry stock metal ones-

I don't know of anyone who has made them out of wood.

Ian McColgin
09-05-2004, 06:58 AM
I'd be most surprised if those aluminum frames can be purchased. The curve in the frame allows the bed side to be a nice non-saggy pipe berth. It would be very hard to make something such in wood, but if you can arrange a blukhead, even a low half-bulkhead, at either end, then the inboard end of the pipe (upper when folded up) can slot into that any you'll have a system that works reasonably well. It will still sag a tad at the center where your weight squeezes the pipes together, which is precisely what Waldo Howland was fixing with his innovation.

Concordia..41
09-05-2004, 07:38 AM
It's said that they have all parts and/or molds for all of the hardware. Under what circumstances they sell them I don't know.

The berths are universally appreciated, so you can't be the first one to want a set. Call 'em and ask:

Concordia Company
508-999-1381

- M

[ 01-25-2005, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

Spissgatter W-9
09-05-2004, 06:31 PM
Thanks folks! I'll let you know how I come out. smile.gif

PeterSibley
09-08-2004, 07:11 AM
I think I've seen a photo in an old WB. If its what I'm thinking of making a casting pattern would be simple and they would be very cheap cast in aluminium and a bit more exciting in bronze.

Spissgatter W-9
09-08-2004, 09:53 PM
Brass would be pretty. I suppose aluminum saves weight and time polishing. The berth arms are available though not cheap. However the folks at Concordia Boats have been so responsive and helpful to my inquiries, I wouldn't buy from anyone else.

Yet I'm intrigued. Why couldn't the arms be laminated from Oak, Teak, Iroko or some other hardwood? You laminators out there, any thoughts?

Jack Heinlen
09-09-2004, 12:14 AM
Folding pipe berths weren't invented by, and aren't exclusive to, Concordia. They can be made quite cheaply out of threaded, galvanized pipe.

I confess not having looked for the materials in a long time, but a few straight pieces, four 90 degree elbows, a threader, and Bob's your uncle.

JimConlin
09-09-2004, 12:17 AM
The aluminum brackets were an OK way to build a curved panel of (rough guess) dimensions 80" x 24", with convex side as settee back and concave side as berth bottom. An alternative method of accomplishing the same thing would be to build a panel by cold molding or strip composite methods. My first try would be 3 x 3mm plywood, vacuum bagged. It'd be less work, lighter and a bit springy (a plus).
Casting the brackets of brass would yield some expensive ballast in the wrong location.

PeterSibley
09-09-2004, 04:57 AM
You're right ,a lamination would be very pleasant and far cheaper. The bronze casting would be heavier but its easy to make the mistake of thinking in timber dimensions when pattern making.Bronzes,especially aluminium or manganese ,are extremely strong and dimensions can be proportionately lighter.The casting option was suggested because the original Concordia models were the subject of the inquiry.The originals were aluminium castings ,if my memory serves me well.

Hwyl
09-09-2004, 05:21 AM
The W 46's have them too. I'm not sure they are the best solution.

Spissgatter W-9
09-09-2004, 08:57 PM
I'm looking for something more classy than the typical pipe berth. Here is the Concordia design. It provides nice back support in upright position while concealing a canvas berth. it will work well for my narrow beam boat. An extension berth is not as handy an option. Tied down the berth is wide and comfortable at port. Tied up it makes a nice sea berth.

http://http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4145329852&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/pictu re/sraid138/p6c7eb62e40d83bd4939d96797d224604/f714b6bc.jpg&caption=Concordia%20berth%20detail&album_id=3849585093&from_a lbum=1

Spissgatter W-9
09-09-2004, 08:59 PM
2nd try
[IMG]http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/view.html?id=4145329852&url=http%3A//www.imagestation.com/picture/srai d138/p6c7eb62e40d83bd4939d96797d224604/f714b6bc.jpg&caption=Concordia%20berth%20detail&album_id=3849585093&from_album=1[ /IMG]

Spissgatter W-9
09-09-2004, 11:16 PM
3rd time is a charm. Sorry about that

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid138/p6c7eb62e40d83bd4939d96797d224604/f714b6bc.jpg

JimConlin
09-10-2004, 12:45 AM
Seems to me that you can accomplish panels shaped like that with wood, epoxy and maybe glass.
And much lighter and easier to maintain.
You're clearly serious about aesthetics and have the skills to do it right. If you're not of he epoxy faith, ignore the following. Let me suggest as a starting point for your agonies a laminated okoume panel, covered (vacuum bag) with Honduras (or lighter) veneer, with applied mahogany( or darker) end and edge bits. I reckon you could build something lovely at maybe 20 lbs. per.

PeterSibley
09-10-2004, 03:26 AM
Jim, if 20 lb is your target...go bronze !! Polish and laquer and be very impressed !

Spissgatter W-9
09-10-2004, 09:13 AM
Jim,
Epoxy has been used liberally (wedging, planking, cabin beams, frames) in the rehabilitation. So, not adverse to making further use. In fact, I was contemplating formed, laminated cockpit combing along the method you describe. However, it would be another learning curve to climb to learn vacum bagging....

The cabin beams are laminated oak with a mahagany face. I was thinking that it might be within my limited epoxy skills to construct the berth arms about 1 1/2 " x 2" in that fashion. Then use strips of locust across the arms to form the back.

How would you go about getting the right shape? I've been trying out benchs in McDonalds and Burger King for comfort.

Transfering the berth detail to mdf, replicating and stacking could serve as form for the veneer? How would you attach pipe to edge of settee back? Carriage bolts? I would like to hear more.

(Bronze sounds nice but casting is a skill I think I'll pass on. I want to get Trine back into the water this April.)

JimConlin
09-10-2004, 02:55 PM
To cold-mold a panel such as you've drawn, that 4" radius is the tough part. I'd think about making a panel using strip canoe techniques (1/4" strips and 6 oz. glass skins). This'll be stiff enough to stand up to bagging a layer of veneer onto one or both sides. Then some sort of ends, then...

Those aluminum brackets are looking better all the time. Another plus to that design is that it allows your bedding, etc. to ventilate.

To make a cast part, you can make the pattern and have a commercial foundry cast and finish parts from it. The pattern is certainly within your skills. Personally, I'm scared to death of any quantity of molten metal.

PeterSibley
09-10-2004, 04:01 PM
Excuse my enthusiasm Jim, I'm setting up a small bronze foundry at the moment.For any sane person have it cast commercially.It would be a simple job.