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View Full Version : Muller report proves Obama spectacularly failed to protect nation.



Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 02:53 PM
The partisan warfare over the Mueller report will rage, but one thing cannot be denied: Former President Barack Obama looks just plain bad. On his watch, the Russians meddled in our democracy while his administration did nothing about it.

The Mueller report flatly states that Russia began interfering in American democracy in 2014. Over the next couple of years, the effort blossomed into a robust attempt to interfere in our 2016 presidential election. The Obama administration knew this was going on and yet did nothing. In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stand-down-how-the-obama-team-blew-the-response-to-russian-meddling_n_5aa29a97e4b086698a9d1112)to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians.

If you consider Russian election interference a crisis for our democracy, then you cannot read the Mueller report, adding it to the available public evidence, and conclude anything other than Barack Obama spectacularly failed America. Subsequent investigations of this matter should explore how and why Obama's White House failed, and whether they invented the collusion narrative to cover up those failures.

Figment
04-19-2019, 02:56 PM
oh, come now. I can conclude that and come to several other conclusions as well. Try me.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 02:59 PM
oh, come now. I can conclude that and come to several other conclusions as well. Try me.

tell me who knew what first. I’d love to hear your conclusions about awareness and protection. It should have never been permitted as soon as they knew there was a real foreign transgression in domestic elections.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 03:00 PM
Hi, Ted.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 03:02 PM
Hi, Ted.

Hi John!

i hope you get it Today. Please post a photo. :)

Old Dryfoot
04-19-2019, 03:03 PM
FFS, deal with the **** show you're in and stop indulging in GD navel gazing!

CWSmith
04-19-2019, 03:14 PM
So, you are saying that Obama failed to take the problem seriously?

Tell me, did he ever say, "Russia, if you are listening..."? I don't remember him doing that.

Canoeyawl
04-19-2019, 03:21 PM
Obama advised congress, but the republican congress knew it was working for them and didn't act.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 03:23 PM
So, you are saying that Obama failed to take the problem seriously?

Tell me, did he ever say, "Russia, if you are listening..."? I don't remember him doing that.

The White House knew in 2014 about the Russians and interference. Assange, Wikileaks and the Russian involvement as we will find out was not made a priority as Obama tried to secure Iran and Syria. He was willing to stand down to get a deal done.

Trump is a scumbag who asked Russia to help. It wouldn’t have been possible for Trump to ask had Obama made it clear to stay the F out of our election processes. Obviously the campaigns of both parties not accepting foreign money should have been shut down but few were willing to turned down easy cash

Figment
04-19-2019, 03:24 PM
tell me who knew what first. I’d love to hear your conclusions about awareness and protection. It should have never been permitted as soon as they knew there was a real foreign transgression in domestic elections.

What's the "it" there? The election should never have been permitted? The foreign transgression? How do you imagine that either would have been stopped?

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 03:25 PM
Obama advised congress, but the republican congress knew it was working for them and didn't act.

he advised congress in 2016, after 18 months of awareness. Congress has it share of blame too.

Garret
04-19-2019, 03:28 PM
OK - what would people have said if Obama said during the campaign (which 2014 was) that the Russians were influencing the elections? The Reps would've gone ballistic & accused him of interference & all sorts of other things.

I can disagree with many things Obama did - but in this he was damned if he did & damned if he didn't.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 03:28 PM
What's the "it" there? The election should never have been permitted? The foreign transgression? How do you imagine that either would have been stopped?

How would have you as president handled it had you known for 18 months there were foreign actors in our democratic process and they were seeking to disrupt the 2016 election?

johnw
04-19-2019, 03:28 PM
The partisan warfare over the Mueller report will rage, but one thing cannot be denied: Former President Barack Obama looks just plain bad. On his watch, the Russians meddled in our democracy while his administration did nothing about it.

The Mueller report flatly states that Russia began interfering in American democracy in 2014. Over the next couple of years, the effort blossomed into a robust attempt to interfere in our 2016 presidential election. The Obama administration knew this was going on and yet did nothing. In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stand-down-how-the-obama-team-blew-the-response-to-russian-meddling_n_5aa29a97e4b086698a9d1112)to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians.

If you consider Russian election interference a crisis for our democracy, then you cannot read the Mueller report, adding it to the available public evidence, and conclude anything other than Barack Obama spectacularly failed America. Subsequent investigations of this matter should explore how and why Obama's White House failed, and whether they invented the collusion narrative to cover up those failures.

It would be interesting to know why she told them to stand down. Could be starting a cyber war would show how vulnerable our infrastructure is.

And it's interesting to know that the people who benefited from Russian interference are not the ones you blame.

Canoeyawl
04-19-2019, 03:31 PM
he advised congress in 2016, after 18 months of awareness. Congress has it share of blame too.

It was announced publicly that he advised congress then...
You can rest assured that the congressional intelligence committees were fully aware of it. But secret, ya?

Tom Wilkinson
04-19-2019, 03:32 PM
So what has the next administration done to stop it, assuming it happened and Obama did nothing. That would mean something should be done by this administration, no? If Obama was wrong to do nothing has that been corrected?

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 03:33 PM
Obama advised congress, but the republican congress knew it was working for them and didn't act.

Yup.

Conspiracy To Defraud The United States, writ large, boys.

The Entire 'Republican' Leadership is complicit in this.

That's why they're going to throw him under the bus.

You know, before it sticks to them.

johnw
04-19-2019, 03:37 PM
Yup.

Conspiracy To Defraud The United States, writ large, boys.

The Entire 'Republican' Leadership is complicit in this.

That's why they're going to throw him under the bus.

You know, before it sticks to them.

Which him? If it's Trump, he's already stuck to them.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 03:38 PM
How would have you as president handled it had you known for 18 months there were foreign actors in our democratic process and they were seeking to disrupt the 2016 election?

YOU don't know how he handled it.

For 19 months, this was highly classified information.

You're saying that O'Bama should have disclosed classified material, WILLY-FREAKIN'-NILLY, just like Trump does.

How many US intelligence operatives and assets have been murdered because of the Moron King?

The reality is that O'Bama left a few booby traps, and boy howdy aren't the boobies piling up!

Canoeyawl
04-19-2019, 03:39 PM
Which him? If it's Trump, he's already stuck to them.

It may still be possible for them to scrub themselves clean. The bikers, the military and the police will support them.
What strange bedfellows.

AlanMc
04-19-2019, 03:40 PM
there's so much face palm in here. r

CWSmith
04-19-2019, 03:42 PM
Sorry, Ted, but I'm not buying it. I can easily see where his administration moved to defuse an escalation in favor of better security, but I doubt that he turned his back.

Moreover, the evidence seems to say that there is little hacking of voter booths and a great deal of voter influence through public media misinformation. That's a rough thing to limit under free speech when you have a moronic public that uses FaceBook as their news source.

Flying Orca
04-19-2019, 03:47 PM
What's the "it" there? The election should never have been permitted? The foreign transgression? How do you imagine that either would have been stopped?

I too am curious as to what Ted thinks could have been done that wasn't.

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
04-19-2019, 03:47 PM
The partisan warfare over the Mueller report will rage, but one thing cannot be denied: Former President Barack Obama looks just plain bad. On his watch, the Russians meddled in our democracy while his administration did nothing about it.

The Mueller report flatly states that Russia began interfering in American democracy in 2014. Over the next couple of years, the effort blossomed into a robust attempt to interfere in our 2016 presidential election. The Obama administration knew this was going on and yet did nothing. In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stand-down-how-the-obama-team-blew-the-response-to-russian-meddling_n_5aa29a97e4b086698a9d1112)to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians.

If you consider Russian election interference a crisis for our democracy, then you cannot read the Mueller report, adding it to the available public evidence, and conclude anything other than Barack Obama spectacularly failed America. Subsequent investigations of this matter should explore how and why Obama's White House failed, and whether they invented the collusion narrative to cover up those failures.

I voted for Obama but do find considerable fault with his presidency. This part, not so much. Obama is known to not be reactionary, but very even tempered. Sometimes to a fault, he could have been more aggressive on domestic policy. I think his failure with regard to Russia is no different from Clinton or Bush the younger failing to kill Osama Bin Laden before 9/11; hindsight is 20/20. But at the very least, rather than striking back, he should have publicized what the Russians were doing. But yeah, the Russians (particularly now) only understand force. Note, however, that Bush the younger promptly and naively embraced Putin, saying he saw his soul and was a good man. If anything, Bush was a far greater sucker on this than Obama.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 03:49 PM
Which him? If it's Trump, he's already stuck to them.

Yes, Trump.

More than 40% still think SFBIC is God's Great White Hope.

Once that number goes anywhere South of that, they will abandon him.

It's already started.

Fox News is breaking away.

I know it's disgusting, but that's how it works.

McConnell, Paul, the entire Senate is complicit in this fraud of a President, and if they ever expect that any majority will vote 'Republican' after all this reeking treason rolls out, then they get what they deserve.

It is just as John Kerry said the other day. 'The political reality of this is suicide.'



Kerry is not as dark as I am, so he can't see that this may actually be the final assault, the Kamikaze onslaught, after which the 'Republican' Party of Oligarchy will own the US outright, or they will perish.



The problem is that the ordinary citizen is preoccupied with Marvel Hulk Final Avenger Apocalypse, and doesn't understand that the ultimate battle of Good vs Evil is playing out in the US Government.

Figment
04-19-2019, 03:50 PM
How would have you as president handled it had you known for 18 months there were foreign actors in our democratic process and they were seeking to disrupt the 2016 election?

You didn't answer my question so I won't answer yours.

I'll say that in order to intelligently answer your question, I need to know ALL THE OTHER THINGS that the president knew at that time. It's a very complex job, with myriad influences to weigh in each decision. Everything affects everything else.
Reducing those decisions to simplistic questions like this does not advance anything.

But back to the OP for a moment; yes, sure, investigate everything. Who knew what and when. Sunshine is rarely a bad thing. Any bad-actors, even former presidents, shall be accountable. I don't have a problem with investigations, even brazenly-vindictive investigations motivated by partisan/tribal disdain.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 03:52 PM
there's so much face palm in here. r

If you'd just put the skillet down, it would hurt a lot less.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 03:53 PM
You didn't answer my question so I won't answer yours.

I'll say that in order to intelligently answer your question, I need to know ALL THE OTHER THINGS that the president knew at that time. It's a very complex job, with myriad influences to weigh in each decision. Everything affects everything else.
Reducing those decisions to simplistic questions like this does not advance anything.

But back to the OP for a moment; yes, sure, investigate everything. Who knew what and when. Sunshine is rarely a bad thing. Any bad-actors, even former presidents, shall be accountable. I don't have a problem with investigations, even brazenly-vindictive investigations motivated by partisan/tribal disdain.

So, you don't have a problem with Gowdy?

I think you may be exaggerating for effect.

:D

Osborne Russell
04-19-2019, 03:57 PM
. . . his administration did nothing about it.


How do you know?

skuthorp
04-19-2019, 03:58 PM
Sorry, Ted, but I'm not buying it. I can easily see where his administration moved to defuse an escalation in favor of better security, but I doubt that he turned his back.

Moreover, the evidence seems to say that there is little hacking of voter booths and a great deal of voter influence through public media misinformation. That's a rough thing to limit under free speech when you have a moronic public that uses FaceBook as their news source.

Precisely, Facebook et al have a deal to answer for, but likely they were not as a aware of their system's propaganda and misinformation capabilities as the Russians were.

mdh
04-19-2019, 04:08 PM
The partisan warfare over the Mueller report will rage, but one thing cannot be denied: Former President Barack Obama looks just plain bad. On his watch, the Russians meddled in our democracy while his administration did nothing about it.

The Mueller report flatly states that Russia began interfering in American democracy in 2014. Over the next couple of years, the effort blossomed into a robust attempt to interfere in our 2016 presidential election. The Obama administration knew this was going on and yet did nothing. In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stand-down-how-the-obama-team-blew-the-response-to-russian-meddling_n_5aa29a97e4b086698a9d1112)to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians.

If you consider Russian election interference a crisis for our democracy, then you cannot read the Mueller report, adding it to the available public evidence, and conclude anything other than Barack Obama spectacularly failed America. Subsequent investigations of this matter should explore how and why Obama's White House failed, and whether they invented the collusion narrative to cover up those failures.

I’ve posted this story several times over the last couple of years, and his order for the DEA to, likewise stand down, on their interference in terrorist drug trafficking through South America. He did a lot of stuff to get his Iran deal and cover his deeds in Syria and Libya. You guys are so far behind on the truth you think you’re ahead.

mdh
04-19-2019, 04:11 PM
So far none of you have even bothered to ask how you went through 2 1/2 years hearing ‘Russia collusion’ only to be told by Muler that it ain’t so.

SMOGRAS

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 04:11 PM
I too am curious as to what Ted thinks could have been done that wasn't.

as others point out - Obama was in a bad position of damned if he do and damned if he don’t. The 2014 Obama foreign policy was trying to get concessions out of the Russians. Obama choice not to bring it up to until after the national conventions might be considered negligent as foreign agents and entities passed millions of dollars, impacting social media and created events in support of both parties. The Russians were not the only parties. Saudis, Israelis, Ukrainians, Chinese nationals and many others have been implicated in this greater electoral conspiracy to change the outcome of the US held democratic process.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 04:13 PM
So far none of you have even bothered to ask how you went through 2 1/2 years hearing ‘Russia collusion’ only to be told by Muler that it ain’t so.

SMOGRAS

Yeah, and they couldn't prove Capone murdered all those people, either.

When was the last time you were patriotic?

LeeG
04-19-2019, 04:17 PM
FFS, deal with the **** show you're in and stop indulging in GD navel gazing!

aint it the truth. McConnell had a major role in hiding this chit.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 04:18 PM
Precisely, Facebook et al have a deal to answer for, but likely they were not as a aware of their system's propaganda and misinformation capabilities as the Russians were.

just so we can understand the great conspiracy in a modern social media context....

In the fall of 2010, the Russian billionaire investor Yuri Milner took the stage for a Q. and A. at a technology conference in San Francisco. Mr. Milner, whose holdings have included major stakes (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/technology/a-russian-facebook-bet-pays-off-big.html?module=inline) in Facebook and Twitter, is known for expounding on everything including the future of social media. But when someone asked a question that had swirled around his Silicon Valley ascent — Who were his investors? — he did not answer, turning repeatedly to the moderator with a look of incomprehension. leaked documents examined by The New York Times offered a partial answer: Behind Mr. Milner’s investments in Facebook and Twitter were hundreds of millions of dollars from the Kremlin. Obscured by a maze of offshore shell companies, the Twitter investment was backed by VTB, a Russian state-controlled bank often used for politically strategic deals.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 04:23 PM
Ted, your OP title is shrill.

ever see an elephant fly?

35772

Truthfully I post so others can think objectively and in that we can see clearly in a historical context. I want to be challenged by opposing viewpoints. I would hope others would too.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 04:27 PM
Time flies like an arrow.

Fruit flies like a banana.

Ted.

mdh
04-19-2019, 04:33 PM
Yeah, and they couldn't prove Capone murdered all those people, either.

When was the last time you were patriotic?

You and Muler are both working for Putin?

mdh
04-19-2019, 04:36 PM
CNN

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/19/opinions/mueller-report-obama-jennings/index.html

TomF
04-19-2019, 04:41 PM
CNN

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/19/opinions/mueller-report-obama-jennings/index.html
Scott Jennings is one of the pet Trumpers who shills for Donald at CNN. Not particularly well either.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 04:42 PM
The OP is a copy and paste?

From a conservative opinion piece.

yes it was. I rather liked the outright hyperbole to troll a few here.

mdh
04-19-2019, 04:45 PM
Scott Jennings is one of the pet Trumpers who shills for Donald at CNN. Not particularly well either.

Yeah, how long has he been telling you there’s no collusion? No way you can believe someone who says that.

woodpile
04-19-2019, 04:53 PM
So, you are saying that Obama failed to take the problem seriously?

Tell me, did he ever say, "Russia, if you are listening..."? I don't remember him doing that.

Take the problem seriously? saying this to Putin, "This is my last election (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/). After my election I have more flexibility." Wake up.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 04:54 PM
Please quote Mueller stating that there was no collusion.

conspiracy was thrown around a bit. Collusion is not in itself illegal.

For the record - Collusion is a secret cooperation or deceitful agreement in order to deceive others, although not necessarily illegal, as a conspiracy. A secret agreement between two or more parties to limit open competition (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition) by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law) typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair market advantage is an example of collusion. It is an agreement among firms or individuals to divide a market, set prices, limit production or limit opportunities.[1] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion#cite_note-1) It can involve "unions, wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties".[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion#cite_note-2) In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_(law)).

David G
04-19-2019, 05:09 PM
yes it was. I rather liked the outright hyperbole to troll a few here.

Feckless

Glen Longino
04-19-2019, 05:20 PM
Feckless

At best.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 05:21 PM
Feckless

I suppose it is better than drab or boring. It has been a while since you posted anything with color. It’s spring time - try to grow something besides name calling personal attack.

This comment above is not reflective of the meaning. feckless. feck·less. adjective. The definition of feckless is someone who is ineffective or irresponsible. A person who cannot be trusted to take on responsibility is an example of someone who would be described as feckless.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 05:22 PM
At best.

It has been a while since you posted something worth debating too. I admit to bringing up topics which I do not agree. I am surprised you would align your comments to his mischaracterized and misused adjective in David’s name calling.

TomF
04-19-2019, 05:24 PM
Yeah, how long has he been telling you there’s no collusion? No way you can believe someone who says that.

Have you ever seen Jennings on air? He's your boy. Has rarely departed from the Trump talking points, including doing victory laps in the past couple of days about the "no collusion" thing.

To be fair, he isn't Giuliani. He is deeply troubled by the amount that Trump lies, even while he excuses it.

David G
04-19-2019, 05:27 PM
I suppose it is better than drab or boring. It has been a while since you posted anything with color. It’s spring time - try to grow something besides name calling personal attack.

Rather than get defensive, and start flailing about... let me suggest you review what I've posted recently and see if you still want to take that stance. My guess is you won't be able to defend it, and were just lashing out -- http://forum.woodenboat.com/search.php?searchid=9849583

PhaseLockedLoop
04-19-2019, 05:33 PM
Precisely, Facebook et al have a deal to answer for, but likely they were not as a aware of their system's propaganda and misinformation capabilities as the Russians were.

Oh! So you think that Facebook was unaware of its ability to influence people, even though that’s the business they’re in? And it took those sneaky Russians to figure it out?

K

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 05:46 PM
You mean, disingenuously?

suppose we call it... a satirical argumentative piece done in a small hope that the forum and myself will extract some morsel of truth from what may otherwise just consider itself politically offensive.

Glen Longino
04-19-2019, 05:48 PM
It has been a while since you posted something worth debating too. I admit to bringing up topics which I do not agree. I am surprised you would align your comments to his mischaracterized and misused adjective in David’s name calling.
Your thread implies ignore the crazy as a shytehouse rat Trump and hang Obama..
Not cool!

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 05:48 PM
Rather than get defensive, and start flailing about... let me suggest you review what I've posted recently and see if you still want to take that stance. My guess is you won't be able to defend it, and we just lashing out -- http://forum.woodenboat.com/search.php?searchid=9849583

The link is dead. Would like to engage your thoughts and get a greater understanding.

David G
04-19-2019, 05:49 PM
suppose we call it... a satirical argumentative piece done in a small hope that the forum and myself will extract some morsel of truth from what may otherwise just consider itself politically offensive.

feck·less
/ˈfekləs/
adjective



1.lacking initiative or strength of character; irresponsible:

David G
04-19-2019, 06:02 PM
The link is dead. Would like to engage your thoughts and get a greater understanding.

Try it this way, then --

1. Click the hightlighted David G atop one of my posts

2. Click on View Forum Posts

3. Review the data with an eye toward checking your assertion

4. Let us know what you come up with

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 06:02 PM
Your thread implies ignore the crazy as a shytehouse rat Trump and hang Obama..
Not cool!

It’s not about cool, it is about the historical record.

i was disappointed with Obama. I am horrified with Trump. We saw the trickle of shyte in 2014. Now we live in a swap sourced from the trickle. we have yet to see the high water mark. Trump and his gangs conspiracy to collude with the Russians, the Saudi’s, the Israelis sprung from the laissez faire which our past and present.

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 06:09 PM
Was this your initial intent with the OP, or your intent in revision?

Initial intent obviously. There is the morsel of truth which as validity and marked a departure in US electoral processes and how aggressive foreign governments interventions actually changed the outcomes.

David G
04-19-2019, 06:09 PM
Then, that OP was not the way to begin exploring the historical record.

No... it wasn't. I like Ted... but he has this tendency --



feck·less


/ˈfekləs/


adjective




1.lacking initiative or strength of character; irresponsible:

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 06:12 PM
Then, that OP was not the way to begin exploring the historical record.

The thread competes with other lines of similar forum inquiry. Frankly - the majority of folks here would have dismissed the exploration if not explosive in title and nature. If I had added it the other thread the thought would have been ignored.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 06:18 PM
You and Muler are both working for Putin?

Pore li'l feller done gone an' swallered the orange Kulaid.

Glen Longino
04-19-2019, 06:22 PM
It’s not about cool, it is about the historical record.

i was disappointed with Obama. I am horrified with Trump. We saw the trickle of shyte in 2014. Now we live in a swap sourced from the trickle. we have yet to see the high water mark. Trump and his gangs conspiracy to collude with the Russians, the Saudi’s, the Israelis sprung from the laissez faire which our past and present.

Then you might have let Congress raise your ire like I have, not Obama.
Obama was not an outlaw like Trump is.
Obama good, Trump bad!
Simplistic but true. To nitpick over Obama while Trump rampages over the rule of law and human decency is at least hypocritical if not feckless.
By the way, I invariably enjoy your input here!
Have a good weekend, Sir

Ted Hoppe
04-19-2019, 06:29 PM
Most lines of inquiry here attribute a copy and paste, and provide an introduction or personal insight to the copy and paste. Thus all start off with the same knowledge that the OP is meant to be a troll.

Can I blame it on an incomplete IPhone posting? A few of our best threads were trolling attempts here.
It is hard to correct and add when posting on a small screen while out on a job. Once posted, i would have most likely been attacked for making the correction.

BrianW
04-19-2019, 06:39 PM
That Trump was not the President during the Russian ‘meddling’ is a messy fact best ignored by the usual crowd.

Obama as an outgoing President had zero to lose by taking it to the public. I’m guessing that he really didn’t like Hillary, and not doing anything was one way to hinder her without ending up dead in a tragic accident. :)

Flying Orca
04-19-2019, 07:26 PM
as others point out - Obama was in a bad position of damned if he do and damned if he don’t.

That doesn't answer my question. You have charged the Obama administration with "failing to protect the nation"; presumably you believe they could have taken action to do so but did not. What action? Please be specific.

Osborne Russell
04-19-2019, 07:32 PM
That Trump was not the President during the Russian ‘meddling’ is a messy fact best ignored by the usual crowd.

Obama as an outgoing President had zero to lose by taking it to the public.

Except anything requiring secrecy.

Glen Longino
04-19-2019, 07:47 PM
Except anything requiring secrecy.

Bryan thinks broadly, but he is weak in nuance.

David G
04-19-2019, 08:08 PM
That Trump was not the President during the Russian ‘meddling’ is a messy fact best ignored by the usual crowd.

Obama as an outgoing President had zero to lose by taking it to the public. I’m guessing that he really didn’t like Hillary, and not doing anything was one way to hinder her without ending up dead in a tragic accident. :)

Nup. You don't know enough to make that judgement. Nor do I. Reads as a stretch toward 'whataboutism'.

L.W. Baxter
04-19-2019, 08:14 PM
In August of 2016, fewer than one in three Republicans polled would confirm that Barack Obama was a U.S. citizen by birthright.

Let that sink in, and **** off if you can't understand the relevance.

Dannybb55
04-19-2019, 08:19 PM
Obama should have used the patriot Act to send trump to gitmo.

BrianW
04-19-2019, 08:19 PM
Except anything requiring secrecy.

Secrecy from who? Obama spoke directly to Putin...


https://youtu.be/YnY4HyofnoU

It obviously wasn't being secret from the Russians. So are you inferring Obama was keeping it secret from US citizens?

Osborne Russell
04-19-2019, 08:23 PM
Secrecy from who? Obama spoke directly to Putin...

Yes, in the TV clip you posted. So he did take it to the public.


So are you inferring Obama was keeping it secret from US citizens?

I sure hope he kept a S load of it from the public. But I wouldn't know, would I? Because.

Garret
04-19-2019, 08:30 PM
Try it this way, then --

1. Click the hightlighted David G atop one of my posts

2. Click on View Forum Posts

3. Review the data with an eye toward checking your assertion

4. Let us know what you come up with

I came up with attempts at the Oregon Chainsaw Massacre.

[Ted's heavy handedness needed some levity - however lame]

BrianW
04-19-2019, 08:30 PM
Yes, in the TV clip you posted. So he did take it to the public.


That clip is from Dec 2016. While his motivation may have been pure, his timing sucked. :)

David G
04-19-2019, 08:35 PM
I came up with attempts at the Oregon Chainsaw Massacre.

[Ted's heavy handedness needed some levity - however lame]

Hey... I can rightly be blamed for ever-so-much... but I had NOTHING to do with that incident. The exploding whale deal either!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBgThvB_IDQ

johnw
04-19-2019, 08:57 PM
That Trump was not the President during the Russian ‘meddling’ is a messy fact best ignored by the usual crowd.

Obama as an outgoing President had zero to lose by taking it to the public. I’m guessing that he really didn’t like Hillary, and not doing anything was one way to hinder her without ending up dead in a tragic accident. :)

Now, that's just silly. Trump spent years trying to convince people Obama was not an American, and you think he'd favor him over Hillary?

I don't think anyone has ignored the fact that Obama was president when Trump was eager to accept the aid of a foreign power in gaining the presidency. That Republicans threatened to politicize the matter if Obama made it public is something historians will point to someday as a turning point in American history. And at the end you give us a whiff of conspiracy theory with a smiley. Really? We're supposed to think allegations of assassination are hilarious? I thought you were someone with better sense.

oznabrag
04-19-2019, 09:11 PM
Now, that's just silly. Trump spent years trying to convince people Obama was not an American, and you think he'd favor him over Hillary?

I don't think anyone has ignored the fact that Obama was president when Trump was eager to accept the aid of a foreign power in gaining the presidency. That Republicans threatened to politicize the matter if Obama made it public is something historians will point to someday as a turning point in American history. And at the end you give us a whiff of conspiracy theory with a smiley. Really? We're supposed to think allegations of assassination are hilarious? I thought you were someone with better sense.

Uuuuhhh . . .

George Jung
04-19-2019, 09:16 PM
Bryan thinks broadly, but he is weak in nuance.

that would be ...obtuse- unless yer a republican- then, it’s ‘gifted’.

mdh
04-19-2019, 09:35 PM
“In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians.”

White House Intelligence was preparing cyber responses to retaliate when Rice stopped them. No one needed to tell the public about anything considered confidential. But Obama didn’t want to endanger his relationship with Putin. So who’s the traitor? Who are the dupes? Who are the hypocrites?

BrianW
04-19-2019, 09:54 PM
...at the end you give us a whiff of conspiracy theory with a smiley. Really? We're supposed to think allegations of assassination are hilarious? I thought you were someone with better sense.


I didn't realize anyone here took the theory about the Clinton's 'enemies' committing suicide or dying under mysterious circumstance seriously. My mistake. Glad I didn't post some of the funny memes about it. :)

Glen Longino
04-19-2019, 09:58 PM
“In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians.”

White House Intelligence was preparing cyber responses to retaliate when Rice stopped them. No one needed to tell the public about anything considered confidential. But Obama didn’t want to endanger his relationship with Putin. So who’s the traitor? Who are the dupes? Who are the hypocrites?

Gobbledygook X 10!
The most Gobbledygook I have ever seen per cubic centimeter or digit of IQ. Congratulations, you have won an all expense trip to Moscow where you will have the honor of kissing the arse of Czar Putin. Enjoy!

johnw
04-19-2019, 11:55 PM
I didn't realize anyone here took the theory about the Clinton's 'enemies' committing suicide or dying under mysterious circumstance seriously. My mistake. Glad I didn't post some of the funny memes about it. :)
I'm sure you know something about the history of blood libels, and how they've been used in the past. Honestly, why do people think they can say horrible things and pass it off by saying, 'just joking.'?

And yes, we have a forum member who has posted the long-debunked list of people the Clintons supposedly killed in all seriousness.

L.W. Baxter
04-20-2019, 12:20 AM
As noted, in August of 2016, less than one in three Republicans when polled would confirm that they believed Barack Obama was a U.S. citizen by birthright.

How many Republicans are posting on this thread, wink wink, smiley smiley.

skaraborgcraft
04-20-2019, 02:36 AM
Precisely, Facebook et al have a deal to answer for, but likely they were not as a aware of their system's propaganda and misinformation capabilities as the Russians were.

I find that to be exceedingly unlikey, seeing as Facebook is used as a propaganda tool itself, and had CIA seed money used in its development. If there is any truth that a handfull of Russians and $10,000 worth of Google ads alledgedly corrupted the outcome of the 2016 election, that just highlights how much the US taxpayer is being burned by the Pentagon for regime change in countries around the world, when in reality, all it takes is a bunch of computer savvy geeks and some Google ads.........this is what they want you to believe.

Tom Hunter
04-20-2019, 08:00 AM
I am with Ted on this one, and I think it’s an important discussion. Obama had a wide variety of tools at his disposal to protect the country, but he did not take the Russian attack seriously.
Some people on this thread asked what else he could have done. Here are a few specifics:
He could have put more justice department resources into investigating Russian money laundering and illegal Russian spending on US political causes.
He could have pushed for earlier investigation of what was going happening with Facebook.
He could have put more NSA and CIA resources on the Russian cyberwarefare center in St Petersburg, the troll farms they maintain, and the other efforts they were undertaking.
He could have held more frequent discussions with his team about the danger of the Russian attack on our country.
He could have highlighted Russian efforts to steal IP from our companies, to rally the whole country against these attacks. It would be impossible for Republicans to come out in favor of Russians stealing IP from Boeing.
He could have highlighted the Russian attacks on Republicans and on people and organizations in Republican districts. For example the Russians went after Marco Rubio during the primaries. Obama defending Rubio from the Russians would make it clear that this attack was on our country, not one party or the other.

Obama’s world is mostly inhabited by high achievers who play by the rules. I get the strong impression that he did not realize how different things are when you are dealing with a genuine thug like Putin. That was a major failing, and it has done a lot of damage to the country.

This post is in no way an apology for Trump or an endorsement of him. I’m well aware that Trump called for and supports Russian attacks on America.

Norman Bernstein
04-20-2019, 08:15 AM
I also think Ted is essentially right.... but it falls into the category of "20-20 hindsight and navel-gazing". I don't think, prior to the end of 2016, that people in general had realized how effective the social media subterfuge would be, in affecting the election process. They were aware, somewhat, of a potential danger, but not really conscious of the power of it's effect.

Sure, maybe Obama was focused on the Iran nuclear deal, and considered it a far more pressing matter... at the time. Add that to the list of criticisms that will attach to Obama's legacy... but let's not go overboard.

In particular, the thread title is hyperbolic, in the extreme.

David G
04-20-2019, 08:44 AM
I also think Ted is essentially right.... but it falls into the category of "20-20 hindsight and navel-gazing". I don't think, prior to the end of 2016, that people in general had realized how effective the social media subterfuge would be, in affecting the election process. They were aware, somewhat, of a potential danger, but not really conscious of the power of it's effect.

Sure, maybe Obama was focused on the Iran nuclear deal, and considered it a far more pressing matter... at the time. Add that to the list of criticisms that will attach to Obama's legacy... but let's not go overboard.

In particular, the thread title is hyperbolic, in the extreme.

Ayup.

Futile, feeble, careless, and ineffectual (aka feckless)

It's like he was doing his first Class Project for his course of study at Bobbles School of Rampaging Rhetoric.

oznabrag
04-20-2019, 09:10 AM
“In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians.”

White House Intelligence was preparing cyber responses to retaliate when Rice stopped them. No one needed to tell the public about anything considered confidential. But Obama didn’t want to endanger his relationship with Putin. So who’s the traitor? Who are the dupes? Who are the hypocrites?

Start here:

https://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/9b2_717trump1-3-800x430.jpg?itok=Sv2qohP0

ccmanuals
04-20-2019, 09:25 AM
Yeah, how long has he been telling you there’s no collusion? No way you can believe someone who says that.

The right keeps talking about collusion still trying to obfuscate the facts of the report. Here is what it actually says.


In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of “collusion.” In so doing, the Office recognized that the word “collud[e]” was used in communications with the Acting Attorney General confirming certain aspects of the investigation’s scope and that the term has frequently been invoked in public reporting about the investigation. But collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law. For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law.

David G
04-20-2019, 09:29 AM
The right keeps talking about collusion still trying to obfuscate the facts of the report. Here is what it actually says.

AND no mopery or dopery, either. Of course, the Mueller investigation wasn't looking into those offenses, either. BuT still: NO MOPERY or DOPERY!!!!

oznabrag
04-20-2019, 09:30 AM
The right keeps talking about collusion still trying to obfuscate the facts of the report. Here is what it actually says.

Thus demonstrating the true nature and the locus of the 'Collusion Delusion'.

ccmanuals
04-20-2019, 09:47 AM
That Trump was not the President during the Russian ‘meddling’ is a messy fact best ignored by the usual crowd.

Obama as an outgoing President had zero to lose by taking it to the public. I’m guessing that he really didn’t like Hillary, and not doing anything was one way to hinder her without ending up dead in a tragic accident. :)

At least Obama confronted Putin to his face and warned him to cut the "sh!t out" and he went to Congress to try and get bi partisian support to warn the American people and was denied by McConnell.

Remember this?

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/02/21/ap_16249265073116obamaputin_custom-08378be206731e711b46743591a68ba848335a58-s800-c85.jpg

Durnik
04-20-2019, 10:09 AM
I’m guessing that he really didn’t like Hillary, and not doing anything was one way to hinder her... .

ignoring the b.s. snark, does no one remember the reports of Hillary saying (essentially) 'let iDJT run, I can beat him'?


Meanwhile, L.W. nails it -


In August of 2016, fewer than one in three Republicans polled would confirm that Barack Obama was a U.S. citizen by birthright.

Let that sink in, and **** off if you can't understand the relevance.

With Congress and all too much of (even Democratic) America either refusing to support President Obama or outright attacking his every word and action - ntm Michelle likely (sanely) saying 'x more months, our daughters need a father' - only a fool would be surprised 'he did nothing'. I'd guess more he did what he felt he could - and recognized the state of America towards him.

To the op - yeah, he failed.. but so did Congress.. and so did we.. and no man can stand alone.

David G
04-20-2019, 10:15 AM
"20-20 hindsight and navel-gazing".

BrianW
04-20-2019, 02:36 PM
At least Obama confronted Putin to his face and warned him to cut the "sh!t out" and he went to Congress to try and get bi partisian support to warn the American people and was denied by McConnell.

Remember this?

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/02/21/ap_16249265073116obamaputin_custom-08378be206731e711b46743591a68ba848335a58-s800-c85.jpg

I’m the one who reminded everyone of that detail. It’s called being open and non-partisan. Sure I have a ‘side’ I prefer, but I’m not blinded by it

Theres still a few of us here like that, too few.

Osborne Russell
04-20-2019, 03:36 PM
In August of 2016, fewer than one in three Republicans polled would confirm that Barack Obama was a U.S. citizen by birthright.

That's a lot of people.

I wonder if they'd made up their minds about drinking blood and molesting children in the back room of Hillary's pizza parlor. I mean, General Flynn wouldn't have spread it if it wasn't true.

Nicholas Scheuer
04-20-2019, 06:01 PM
Maybe Obama was a closet Repugnican, believing that the so-called "free enterprise system" should take care of things; namely, that the eff-heads at FACEBOOK should figure out how to shut down the Russians. We heart so much about our vaunted "free enterprise system" and how nobody should interfere with it for any reason.