Glueing plywood to white oak?

[imported_Daniel]

What type of glue would you folks recommend for glueing plywood gussets to sawn white oak frames? If it matters they will be screwed too.
Thanks

[ 03-23-2003, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Daniel ]

[JimD]

Daniel, resourcinal apparently has a good rep for bonding to white oak, epoxy doesn't
jimd

[imported_Daniel]

Thanks guys, I was hoping to avoid trying to maintain the high temps required for curing the resourcinol. If using acetone to remove oils, does this just remove the surface oils? I am assuming that once the epoxy is cured the oils that will ( at least I think they would) make their way back, will have no negative impact on the joint? What about something like Sikaflex or similar bonding agent?

[ 03-23-2003, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Daniel ]

[Will S.]

3M 5200 will work very well for this application

[Mrleft8]

Since when is White oak "oily"? I've been glueing White Oak for 25 years, and never had any issues with it glueing. I've glued Oak to Oak, Oak to plywood, Oak to Poplar, Oak to Walnut... Etc. I'd use Resoucinol, or even "Type II" yellow glue, considering you're using it on a "Non-imersion" application.

[JimD]

The problem with white oak bonding with epoxy is related to acid in the wood, not oil.

[DavesFlatsBoat]

How about testing PL Polyurethane construction adhesive - at less than $5.00 a tube - you might find it's just the stuff and if not you're only out $5.

I like the concrete & mason PL - less sag than the PL Premimum.

[imported_Daniel]

Someone deleted a post saying to wipe the oak with acetone first to get rid of the "oils". I assumed that the "oils" were what made white oak so naturally rot resistant. If this is not the case, what exactly does make it such a choice wood for boat building? :confused:

[Mrleft8]

The rocks in the grain make it rot resistant. White Oak is actually half stone. Ever tried to plane the end grain of kiln dried White O ;) ak?
It's the rocks....

[Leon m]

Daniel
I just glued some mahogany ply gussets to white
oak frames ,I followed advice I got wright here
on the forum.First I sanded the area (on the oak)
with 60 grit,then I wiped(more like washed)it
with acetone ,then I glued the joints useing
west system apoxy,the reason I did'nt use
resourcinal is,I didn't want the dark glue lines
and I was told the epoxy would work well with
the method I just mentioned.then I fastened with
bronze screws.

I glued up some test peices useing this method
and without screws .After many blows with a five
pound mallet they all refused to brake at the glue
joint.they split in the wood instead...Im sold!

Good Luck!

[Ron Williamson]

I think the problem with epoxy and acid is long-term,so a joint that is good now,may not be later.
Where's that Chemist?I think he went over this.
Last spring we coated WO with epoxy then bolted everything(No worries)
R
PS Dan,how are you getting along with the boat?

[ 03-25-2003, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Ron Williamson ]

[imported_Daniel]

Thanks all. Ron, I am not getting on with the boat....yet. It was as you know a long and exceptionally cold winter, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that things have started to settle down work wise, back to a normal 50-60 hrs a week :rolleyes: . I hope to construct the habitat for the boat very shortly, I need a diversion and I think the time is right.

[jlapratt]

Ok, one more time. Yes white oak and epoxy are compatible. Oak must be dry and roughed up with 60 or 80 grit paper (saws make a nice smooth finish, almost polished and epoxy don't like that). Wipe with alcohol or acetone. Hit the joints with unthickened epoxy and let set for 10 minutes to let it soak in and ensure your joint is not glue starved. Glue with thickened epoxy and fasten. Acid would only interfere with the curing process, not attack cured epoxy. If you are still unsure, and confidence in your boat is essential, then use PL Premium or 5200. Any one of the three will perform marvelously. How do I know? 'Cause I did all three and they all past the hammer test 2 months later. I also spoke with the epoxy people and they agree.

Remember, it is YOUR butt and YOUR family that is relying on your work. Do what gives you a warm-fuzzy then enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Jeff

[Cedarhill Boatworks]

I cringe when I see the words always and never, BUT I would never, ever use PL adhesives of any kind on a boat. They will fail. PL adhesives have been around along time and are used extensively in the construction industry. In my experience, they are short term. Plywood subfloors glued to floor joists can be pulled up in five years with no problem. Wood and composite panels are routinely glued to any manner of substrate with PL and they all require mechanical fasteners if they are to stay put for any length of time. Theres a good reason that they are cheap.
Good for the house, bad for the boat. Please use something else.

[Will S.]

just get it over with and use the 5200!!

[Will S.]

just get it over with and use the 5200!! ;)

[Concordia..41]

Repeated use of 5200 has been known to cause people to repeat themselves themselves themselves tongue.gif

[ 03-27-2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]