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cs
12-30-2005, 06:34 PM
Okay just for fun and more space I took a hard drive out of an old computer system and put in mine. This is a 20 gig hard drive that is partitioned into 2 drives. It is in and readable and works fine. I want to blow away the partition and make it just one drive.

Going into disk management through my computer shows the drive there. One partition says healty and active and the other healthy (my main hard drive is listed as healty and system).

I've not found the tool yet that says "blow partitions away" or "re-partition hard drive". Any clue where to look?

Chad

cs
12-30-2005, 06:38 PM
You know I just found a command when I right click on the drive in disk management that says "delete partition". I will wait a minute before doing that, cause that is a big step.

Chad

Meerkat
12-30-2005, 06:48 PM
Generally, when you blow away partitions, the remaining partitions aren't any good. The disk has to be repartititioned to use the newly available space. This destroys the content of the remaning partition(s).

cs
12-30-2005, 06:52 PM
Which is what I want to do, just ain't built up the nerve to hit that button yet.

Chad

Meerkat
12-30-2005, 06:53 PM
Just have your OS installation CD handy if it's the OS disk you're mucking with... ;)

cs
12-30-2005, 06:56 PM
No, it ain't the primary disk. It is the one I just added as a slave. But what you say is what is keeping me from doing it. I would hate to make that mistake.

Chad

Meerkat
12-30-2005, 06:59 PM
If it's a secondary disk, all should be well. I reformat partitions on my primary from time to time and I've never had a problem. OTOH, I would never try to repartition my primary disk with a live OS on it! :eek:

Rick Tyler
12-30-2005, 07:01 PM
I don't know if Symantec has schmucked it up since they bought it, but Partition Magic (http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/system_performance/pm80/) used to be a SysOp favorite for this sort of thing. I haven't used it personally, but I do know a few system management pros who swore by it a few years ago. Caveat emptor.

htom
12-30-2005, 08:01 PM
fdisk

windows: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=255867&product=w98

linux: http://howtos.linux.com/guides/sag/x1139.shtml

Use the Windows version of fdisk, on windows, to make partitions that will be used for or by windows. Once you've done that, you can use the other fdisk, cfdisk, ... programs to create partitions for Linux, BSD, ... only windows seems to have a problem reading other's partioning and formating.

cs
12-30-2005, 08:53 PM
Well I deleted the partition and all it did was delete all the data on that partition and make it unallocated. Left the other partition intact. When right clicking on that partition it gives me the option to delete logical drive. What I want to do is make that all one drive and not partitined off.

I'll check in tommorow. Getting ready to watch Master and Commander again.

Chad

Meerkat
12-30-2005, 08:57 PM
Trying to combine 2 partitions is where you're apt to run up on the rocks.

Something like Partition Magic, as mentioned above, might help in that regard. There are also some freeware apps out there that may do the same.

BACK UP FIRST, no matter which you try.

High C
12-30-2005, 09:51 PM
Chad, I'm pretty sure you can't do this from within Windows. Either Partition Magic, which is expensive, or fdisk, which is a freebie, will do it.

Do you have an old Windows 98 disk? You can probably download a Win 98 startup disk somewhere if you don't have one. Then boot the computer with it and type "fdisk" at the A:\ prompt to launch it.

First explore what disks and partitions you have (option 4 IIRC), to be sure you're very clear about what you're doing.

You'll then have to delete the existing partitions, on the slave drive, and create a new, single partition in the now unpartioned space.

Just be sure you're working on the slave and NOT YOUR PRIMARY DRIVE! :eek:

Meerkat
12-30-2005, 09:54 PM
I think he's trying to add on unused space to an existing partition, which fdisk will not do. Partition Magic (and some freeware) will do it, but it's not without risk.

High C
12-30-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Meerkat:
I think he's trying to add on unused space to an existing partition, which fdisk will not do. Partition Magic (and some freeware) will do it, but it's not without risk.You're right that Partition Magic will magically "eliminate" the wall between existing partitions, or add unpartitioned space to an existing partition. But it can also be done with fdisk by deleting all partitions on the disk and creating a new single one with all available space. Of course this destroys any data on the disk, whereas Part Mag leaves it intact, IF all goes well.

Though I've never had a problem with either program, BACKUP first!

George Roberts
12-31-2005, 01:18 AM
Partition Commander also works.

That and Copy Commander seem to do all I ever need.

It only took 4 hours tonight to transfer a 20g hard drive to a 40g hard drive. But then who would have thought that 3,000,000 files would be found on a drive that small.

BrianW
12-31-2005, 01:37 AM
Darn, I thought you guys were talking bullets...

http://www.nosler.com/images/partition.jpeg

cs
12-31-2005, 09:52 AM
Kinda of strange. When I booted up with a boot disk and ran fdisk it only showed my primary disk. It didn't show the slave. It shows fine in explorer. Need to look and study some more.

Chad

BTW just so there is no confusion on what I'm doing here. I'm taking an old primary hard drive out of a Windows NT machine. This hard drive was partitioned off into a 2 gig C drive and a 18 gig D drive. I'm adding this hard drive to my system as a slave drive. I want to do away with the partations on this drive and open it up as one drive.

Norske3
12-31-2005, 09:58 AM
And I thought you were talking knocking down walls and making a bigger computer room. :D

By the way for those who would and don't realise....when knocking down a wall BE SURE IT IS NOT A BEARING WALL....you know, the ones that hold the house up!. :D

cs
12-31-2005, 10:01 AM
But it is fun to tear down load bearing walls. ;)

Found this using the windows XP installation disk and booting off of it.


At the Welcome to Setup page, press ENTER.
4.
Note If you are using the Setup disks (6 bootable disks), the setup will prompt you to instert the Windows XP CD.
5. Press F8 to accept the Windows XP Licensing Agreement.
6. If an existing Windows XP installation is detected, you are prompted to repair it. To bypass the repair, press ESC.
7. All the existing partitions and the unpartitioned spaces are listed for each physical hard disk. Use the ARROW keys to select the partition or the unpartitioned space where you want to create a new partition. Press D to delete an existing partition, or press C to create a new partition by using unpartitioned space. If you press D to delete an existing partition, you must then press L (or press ENTER, and then press L if it is the System partition) to confirm that you want to delete the partition. Repeat this step for each of the existing partitions that you want to use for the new partition. When all the partitions are deleted, select the remaining unpartitioned space, and then press C to create the new partition.

Note If you want to create a partition where one or more partitions already exist, you must first delete the existing partition or partitions, and then create the new partition.
8. Type the size in megabytes (MB) that you want to use for the new partition, and then press ENTER, or just press ENTER to create the partition with the maximum size.I will try that.

Chad

cs
12-31-2005, 10:12 AM
Talk about frustrating. I can't even find my XP cd. :mad:

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 10:15 AM
What's a partition ? ;)

Had to, just had to, its the last one of the year :D

cs
12-31-2005, 10:19 AM
Joe, just so you know. Partitions are not windows specfic. It is a way to divide bigger drives up into multiple smaller drives which are easier to manage. I'm sure your apple uses some sort of drive sequencing such as C: and D:.

Chad

Joe I just did a quick search and yes your apple does use partitioned hard drives if so desired.

[ 12-31-2005, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: cs ]

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by cs:
I'm sure your apple uses some sort of drive sequencing such as C: and D:.

ChadNope.

What's a C: drive ? :D

This is the thing that gets me with people that think they know about OS X and Mac's in general. There has never ever been a C:drive or a D: or a whatever drive. Why would you need one you only have one HD ? It would baffle me in the early days of Windoz you would put a CD or attach a device and everyone would go where is it?????? Check and see if it is in the C: Drive. How Nuts ?? With Mac's you plug a thing in and no looking there it is on your desk top. No C: drive and definitely never a >C: Prompt :D

( By the way I know exactly what you are talking about but you just never have to deal with this crap with a OS X Mac ;) In old system 9 you could partition your HD it was a very geeky thing to do and was never necessary and more people ended up with a flaky unstable system after they did it. )

[ 12-31-2005, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Joe ( Cold Spring on Hudson ) ]

cs
12-31-2005, 10:43 AM
Joe are just saying that mac has no file system whatsoever? You just say open that file and it opens magically. Mac has to have some logically way to store files, they may not use drive letters like Windows, but if you need to find a file it has to be somewhere in a logical sequence, otherwise how would you find it? And don't say "It will magically appear on the desktop" cause that is bull. If every file I needed and use was on my desktop I would need 50 monitors to see them all.

A file system has to be logical and partitions help manage them.

And by the way folks add extra hard drives when they need more storage space and I would assume that Mac has the same thing. Unless of course a Mac hard drive has unlimited storage capacity and can read your mind and know what file you want so you want have to remember where you saved it.

BTW I've figured out why the second hard drive don't show up with the fdisk command. I have it attached to the ide controller that the CD drive is on, because the one that the C: drive is on will not reach. Thus my slave hard drive is actually a slave to the CD drive and not the c: drive.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by cs:
Joe are just saying that mac has no file system whatsoever? You just say open that file and it opens magically. Mac has to have some logically way to store files, they may not use drive letters like Windows, but if you need to find a file it has to be somewhere in a logical sequence, otherwise how would you find it? And don't say "It will magically appear on the desktop" cause that is bull. If every file I needed and use was on my desktop I would need 50 monitors to see them all.

A file system has to be logical and partitions help manage them.

And by the way folks add extra hard drives when they need more storage space and I would assume that Mac has the same thing. Unless of course a Mac hard drive has unlimited storage capacity and can read your mind and know what file you want so you want have to remember where you saved it.

BTW I've figured out why the second hard drive don't show up with the fdisk command. I have it attached to the ide controller that the CD drive is on, because the one that the C: drive is on will not reach. Thus my slave hard drive is actually a slave to the CD drive and not the c: drive.

ChadMac. Magic

http://images.apple.com/macosx/features/spotlight/images/indextop20050412.jpg http://images.apple.com/macosx/features/spotlight/images/indextitle20050412.gif

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/spotlight/


Stop looking. Start finding. With Spotlight, you can find anything on your computer as quickly as you type. Search your entire system from one place: Files, emails, contacts, images, calendars and applications appear instantly. The Need for Speed
Spotlight for Mac OS X Tiger lets you blaze through your files and applications and see results as soon as you type the very first letter. Thatís because Spotlight indexes files on your computer transparently and in the background, so you never experience lag times or slowdowns. And when you make a change, such as adding a new file, receiving an email or entering a new contact, Spotlight updates its index automatically, so search results are always up-to-the-moment accurate.

cs
12-31-2005, 11:03 AM
Joe that is just a way to logically search for files that are stored in a logical manner. How is that different than the search function in Windows? You see Mac is still storing the files in a logical manner.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 11:16 AM
My Desk top this morning Notice how clean it is?

I have ONE Macintosh HD and one external SANVOL which is my digital camera. If I had an external HD it would be listed just like the camera. Just plug & play.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid198/p419e9340098b8959c5603b2cb5c96bd3/f0d26fd8.jpg

By the way the desktop screen image is a photo I took in Mexico. It's nice to look at when the temp out side ( see widget in the lower right ) says 27 deg F

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by cs:
You see Mac is still storing the files in a logical manner.

ChadExactly so if Mac stores files in a logical manner why would I ever need to partition the files ?

cs
12-31-2005, 11:21 AM
Joe you are obvously missing what is happening here. I'm adding a second drive for more storage. It comes up just fine. I'm wanting to change the partitions that were already on this drive.

Your holier than thou Mac also uses a file system, but you in your blinded by the light Mac beleive that anything other than Mac is a waste of time.

Chad

[ 12-31-2005, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: cs ]

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 11:25 AM
No Chad I get it I just don't get it. If I add an extra HD I never even think of partitioning it why would I??

I KNOW the file systems are the same on HD's but if I just plug my external and OS X looks at it as one complete system for searching and the HD is on my desk top - click and open. I'm wondering WHY I would EVER need to partition it?

cs
12-31-2005, 11:32 AM
I guess whether to partition or not to partition is a matter of personal preference. I prefer to have one partition for system files and another for data storage. It makes life easier for me. Look at partitions as filing cabinets. You have one cabinet for buisnes expenses and one for personal expenses. If you need to find an invoice for a computer you bought for work, you would know which cabinet to go to. If you had it all in one cabinet you would still know which cabinet to go to, but than you would have to sift through files for buisness and personal.

Partitining hard drives allows you to create multiple filing cabinets, which to me makes file management easier.

I don't know much about Mac, but I bet it is idot proof, but that means that it is not open to different train of thoughts. I guess with Mac you either do it their way or no way.

I like having choices.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Donn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by cs:
..I just did a quick search and yes your apple does use partitioned hard drives if so desired.You are correct, Chad. Partitioned drives are common in OS X. The most frequent use is for installation of various other OS's and for non-boot partitions. There are several software packages that ease the process.</font>[/QUOTE]Why would you ever need installation of various other OS's
You have a Mac :D :D :D

cs
12-31-2005, 11:38 AM
Now that we have determined that Mac is the greatest thing on earth :rolleyes: , can we get back to blowing away partitions?

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 11:40 AM
I never said you couldn't do it on a mac I just said WHY WOULD you. ;)

As for speed the lack of VIrus software needed to run my OS keeps her pretty speedy :D

Sounds like a recipe for an Unstable system. As for running OTHER OS's WHY DO THAT WHEN YOU HAVE THE BEST ? :D :D :D

Nice Google work Donn :rolleyes: The more you read the more you will learn :D

cs
12-31-2005, 11:45 AM
Donn there was data on both partitions, but when I deleted one partition it took all that data away. The second partition has data on it, but I don't need it. I need to blow it all away.

I'm re-partitioning and formating the first partition to make it active.

Chad

imported_GregW
12-31-2005, 11:50 AM
Joe,
There are a couple of good reasons to partition a HD.
You may not know this, but your HD has several partition on it.
I don't use Apple, but I would bet you have at least two partitions.
You have at least a SWAP partition and a partition for the rest of your data. However I wouldn't be the least surprised if Apple included at least one more, a partition to keep your personal data separate from the system files.
Why partition? Security and convenience.
A person may want to keep his/her personal data files separate from the system files, or if you have multiple users, you may want to give each user their own partition. Partitioning also helps to protect data in case of viruses, crashes, and keeps your data a little saver from OS related issues if the OS is on its own partition etc.

cs
12-31-2005, 12:08 PM
Formatting the drive just effects the partition an not the drive as a whole.

Chad

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Donn:
BWAHAHAHA!!Original thought ? Donn :D

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

Joe (SoCal)
12-31-2005, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by GregW:
Joe,I don't use AppleThere is your answer ;)


Originally posted by GregW:
You have at least a SWAP partition and a partition for the rest of your data. However I wouldn't be the least surprised if Apple included at least one more, a partition to keep your personal data separate from the system files.
Why partition? Security and convenience. Nope


Originally posted by GregW:
A person may want to keep his/her personal data files separate from the system files, or if you have multiple users, you may want to give each user their own partition. Partitioning also helps to protect data in case of viruses, crashes, and keeps your data a little saver from OS related issues if the OS is on its own partition etc.Multi user is in the system already no need to partition it's part of the OS.

Virus? What's a virus?

Crash ? What's a crash?

Bwaaaaa Ha ha

Meerkat
12-31-2005, 02:43 PM
All standard desktop/laptop Unix OS's requrie a swap partition.

As for the rest of this, I'm sitting it out! I'll leave you amateurs to your fun! ;)

Victor
12-31-2005, 02:52 PM
You could try delpart, an old utility that may not work on a drive that size. Microsoft used to carry it but too many people got in trouble with it. It's around somewhere.

cs
12-31-2005, 02:56 PM
Dave I could really use your help on this. I guess I could go in and open the box and hook the new hard drive up as a slave to the master hard drive and see if fdisk would see it, but being as it don't reach I would have to do that just to create the partition I want and than re-connect it the other way.

Chad

BTW just got back from trying to find a surface mounted cat 5 box and no luck. I will keep trying to work with the boxes I have. They are different brand boxes and appear to wire differently. I will keep playing with them and see if I can get a link light.

Meerkat
12-31-2005, 03:48 PM
Drive connections:

There are 3 types:

Master
Slave
Cable-select

"Master" and "slave" are misnomers. Drives are not slaved off a master. Rather, it refers to the primary and secondary channels on the IDE port.

Master, slave and cable-select are chosen by jumpers on the back of the drive. Unlike the other 2, cable-select also requires a special cable which has selected (the drive select) wires swapped.

General rule of thumb: it is not a good idea to have a hard drive on the same IDE connector as a CD drive and an even worse idea to have the HD be the slave. IIRC, there's substantial performance reduction for a HD on the same cable as a CD. (Two CD's on the same cable should be OK.) If you have a cable-select cable, then both drives must be set to cable-select.

To fix your problem: ensure that the CD is master and the HD is slave. Make sure neither are set to cable-select, UNLESS you have a cable-celect cable. (You can identify a cable-select cable by the fact that the cable will be split at one point and 2 wires will be crossed over each other.)

The better solution is to move the 2nd HD to the same cable as the primary HD and make sure it's set as slave.

Thank goodness SATA has come along! 1 device per cable! :D

[ 12-31-2005, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

cs
12-31-2005, 03:51 PM
Dave, I think I will tear it down and do that, after I figure out this cat 5 wiring.

Chad

cs
12-31-2005, 05:25 PM
Well I've got the home network up and running. I'll look at the hard drive issue here in a bit.

Chad

Meerkat
12-31-2005, 05:39 PM
Congrats! smile.gif