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Dave Hadfield
02-03-2019, 07:50 AM
This video is extremely interesting; and gives a good idea of the vast commitment of people and resources that went into making America an industrial giant.

You wouldn't think a film about making engines would be entertaining, but I just watched it straight through.

Precision versus volume production is always a built-in conflict, but you can clearly see how well it was achieved.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=sBfFpcdyd5Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=sBfFpcdyd5Q

Paul Pless
02-03-2019, 07:53 AM
Wright Builds for Supremacy

Have you a corresponding Pratt&Whitney film from oh say. . . 1945 or so? :D

Paul Pless
02-03-2019, 08:07 AM
i'm about half way through the video
always astounded by the skilled labor force when watching such

McMike
02-03-2019, 08:55 AM
If the original assembly wasn't complex enough, they disassemble every engine and inspect every part for wear, AND then reassemble and test again. The amount of organization is staggering and totally appeals to my mind, I wish I had the opportunity to become an engineer to the scale of Kat, I admire her. It sucks that the way my companies are forced to manufacture is so fast, I'm always shooting from the hip, measure once, no one audits my work. It's a wonder I make as few mistakes as I do.

Jim Mahan
02-03-2019, 09:14 AM
It's a wonder I make as few mistakes as I do.

There is an optimum number of makes to be made in a career. It should normally be a ratio of failure to success that shifts from many with a few big ones at the beginning, to few and minor, over time, to mastery. Zero mistakes isn't possible. And if it were, how would learning or improving occur? If early humans could have made a perfect mega-fauna skinning obsidian blade, perfect mind you, we'd still be skinning stuff with perfect obsidian blades, and there would be no steel knives at all.

Failure is leavening. It's why Bob Smalser said he kept some evidence of youthful indescretion vis-a-vis woodworking or boat-building in his shop, that are so bad they 'make your teeth itch' to not fix them to be as well done as your current level of mastery.

Besides, without that necessary bit of failure, no one would need humility. Then this would is the berst post you'll ever rede about it, 2, and also, addtionally.

L.A Marche
02-03-2019, 11:48 AM
My ex business partner, may he rot in hell, used to brag about failing at more things than most people have tried.
Turns out not to be a good philosophy.
What one learns from mistakes is not to repeat them.

Ed Harrow
02-03-2019, 11:50 AM
Have you a corresponding Pratt&Whitney film from oh say. . . 1945 or so? :D

Ahhhh P&W. This is Dad's last check from them.

30552

He and another were in a test cell. There was a fire, and the only way out was under a tank of Av Gas... The other guy chickened. Dad made it; carried scars on his back from burns (really quite minor). Never went back.

But the skilled work and care taken that was the norm 'back in the day' by hand, never fails to amaze.

Thank you, Dave, for the Video(s).

Andrew2
02-03-2019, 03:24 PM
This video is extremely interesting; and gives a good idea of the vast commitment of people and resources that went into making America an industrial giant.

You wouldn't think a film about making engines would be entertaining, but I just watched it straight through.

Precision versus volume production is always a built-in conflict, but you can clearly see how well it was achieved.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=sBfFpcdyd5Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=sBfFpcdyd5Q

Have you read LJK Setright's book 'The Power to fly' ? Interesting comments on US radials.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
02-03-2019, 04:28 PM
This may explain why the film was made:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss-Wright#Defective_engines_sold_to_U.S._military_in_ World_War_II

carioca1232001
02-03-2019, 08:35 PM
The business of building aircraft engines can be a devilish one :

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/pw-to-replace-faulty-aircraft-engines-soon/articleshow/60208629.cms
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/aircraft-engine-failure-a-rare-occurrence-across-the-globe-dgca-should-have-been-proactive/articleshow/62868515.cms

epoxyboy
02-04-2019, 12:32 AM
Those cylinder head castings are a real work of art - especially getting the fins to come out in one piece.

Pete

Jim Bow
02-04-2019, 02:28 AM
https://youtu.be/pMZKt6zN2gE

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
02-04-2019, 05:51 AM
I appreciate and understand every stage of the machining and foundry* work shown. I went through trades training and was a prototype machinist out of high school, for several years before deciding I hated the working conditions and hours (noisy, smoky, no windows, mandatory overtime and Saturdays, one stretch 7 days a week for months, and most work was not prototype but mindless production runs). I worked as a machinist half-way through 9 years of college under crappy conditions, then at the machine shop at my university until graduation where the working conditions and hours were fabulous, I did only prototype work, and I reported to one guy but pretty much ran the place solo as I knew more about machining and repairing the machines than he did. White tiled floor, fabulously clean, usually only one machine running at a time so pretty quiet. After graduation as an engineer, a clean, bright, and quiet office environment. But my machining experience made me a better engineer. And I still occasionally used it, like when I arrived at the production plant to pick up prototypes and nothing had been done. We had lost the previous bid job because prototypes, made by the parent company, were both late and wrong. "Step aside." I pulled down our ace welder and machinist from our office, I machined the parts and fed them to him to be welded, we both worked double shifts for 4 days, I sent him back to the hotel to get 8 hours sleep while I supervised having the parts painted correctly, then he drove us back during a snowstorm while I sleep in the co-pilot seat. Wasn't going to miss that second bid job, and we won it, filled the other half of the plant, and that got my career started. The VP questioned our amount of overtime claimed until I explained things, no further questions.

A year ago I looked online at my old high school's vocational program, the metal machining program has been totally eliminated, probably due to lack of jobs. In its place is robotic programming, with the actual robots made overseas.

* As my dad would say when we drove past in Saginaw on trips northward, "central casting" is where the movie producer goes to get actors; "Central foundries" is where GM casts engine parts.

carioca1232001
02-04-2019, 07:13 AM
I appreciate and understand every stage of the machining and foundry* work shown. I went through trades training and was a prototype machinist out of high school, for several years before deciding I hated the working conditions and hours (noisy, smoky, no windows, mandatory overtime and Saturdays, one stretch 7 days a week for months, and most work was not prototype but mindless production runs). I worked as a machinist half-way through 9 years of college under crappy conditions, then at the machine shop at my university until graduation where the working conditions and hours were fabulous, I did only prototype work, and I reported to one guy but pretty much ran the place solo as I knew more about machining and repairing the machines than he did. White tiled floor, fabulously clean, usually only one machine running at a time so pretty quiet. After graduation as an engineer, a clean, bright, and quiet office environment. But my machining experience made me a better engineer. And I still occasionally used it, like when I arrived at the production plant to pick up prototypes and nothing had been done. We had lost the previous bid job because prototypes, made by the parent company, were both late and wrong. "Step aside." I pulled down our ace welder and machinist from our office, I machined the parts and fed them to him to be welded, we both worked double shifts for 4 days, I sent him back to the hotel to get 8 hours sleep while I supervised having the parts painted correctly, then he drove us back during a snowstorm while I sleep in the co-pilot seat. Wasn't going to miss that second bid job, and we won it, filled the other half of the plant, and that got my career started. The VP questioned our amount of overtime claimed until I explained things, no further questions.

A year ago I looked online at my old high school's vocational program, the metal machining program has been totally eliminated, probably due to lack of jobs. In its place is robotic programming, with the actual robots made overseas.

* As my dad would say when we drove past in Saginaw on trips northward, "central casting" is where the movie producer goes to get actors; "Central foundries" is where GM casts engine parts.

'But my machining made me a better engineer'.

You bet ! Ample support for your imagination accompanied by the feasible, tractable, permissible; in Britain during my time there (mid-60s) the educational authorities introduced sandwich-courses, wherein students spend 6-months in industry and 6-months in academia, over a 4-year period,for a B.Sc.

BTW, all sorts of subjects have been eliminated in curriculums, be it here, there or wherever, a shame really as it seems short-sighted, immediatist (imediatista) thinking .

At my university they dismantled the Electrical Machines Lab, in an institution where Fleming, aside from his prodigious work on machines, invented the diode valve, whence eletronics; most vocational schools here in Brazil have struck off wood-working from their curriculums, in a country which hosts gigantic natural forests (but there could be a good side to it, aside from the profits accrued by the tupperware crowd).

Wadsworth
02-05-2019, 12:40 AM
A year ago I looked online at my old high school's vocational program, the metal machining program has been totally eliminated, probably due to lack of jobs. In its place is robotic programming, with the actual robots made overseas.

Great story about saving the day with the prototype and very true about working in the trenches to really learn the trades. I couldn't believe it when my kids got to junior high and I found out they had eliminated the shop classes. Some of my best classes in junior high were power mechanics, mechanical drafting, wood shop and metal shop taught in four units in 7th grade with encouragement to follow up with the next levels in the 8th. Every boy it was in the 70s, of course had to take the 7th grade rotation. No wonder we have so much trouble finding skilled labor.
Seems like we are deliberately setting ourselves up to fail.