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Canoeyawl
10-06-2018, 08:03 PM
In 1967 as a young fool, I went to work in a S.F. Peninsula machine shop making analog computer parts. Fussy and close tolerance small parts, parts for America's Apollo project even...
Vietnam was in full swing. Shops large and small were chock-a-block all along the bay just booming with military contracts. It was a close knit community, the "old timers" were world war 2 veterans. You could walk to another shop on the street and borrow materials or tooling, or ask for a bid to help your job or whatever. From my window I could look east out across the bay and occasionally I would walk down to the water's edge just to look at stuff.
It was an endless junk yard, there were 40 years of discarded cars and rubbish tumbled and dumped into the bay. From China Basin south to San Jose the water ebbing out between those cars was a fluorescent kool-aid green color. I once waded in and removed a cylinder head from a 1949 Plymouth to replace the cracked one on my car.

We used about 55 gallons of Triclorethylene a month as a degreaser/cleaner in an large heated ultrasonic bath. Our instructions from the front office were to use it until it was visibly dirty and then pour it down the storm drain into the bay. The part of the building with the ultrasonic cleaner was manned by a half-dozen women employed to debur those millions of fussy little parts. Working with hand tools over microscopes they chattered to each other all day long. One or two were always pregnant, and there were often miscarriages, and worse. Nobody questioned it.
Thank god for the EPA.


http://scorecard.goodguide.com/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=79%2d01%2d6


Hazard RankingsMore hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems.Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health.

Fitz
10-06-2018, 08:22 PM
I have spent a good part of 30 years cleaning the **** up.

Canoeyawl
10-06-2018, 09:14 PM
I'm glad I got out of there early. Only 3 years...
It was good pay but a tough job, exposed to all sorts of chemicals, smoke, oil mists and then working alloys like Berillium Copper, Tantalum etc. I didn't like dumping the triclorethyline in the bay, and suspected that it may be affecting the pregnant women. Girls really, they were in their 20's. It was shocking how many had several miscarriages and birth defects were not discussed much, they thought there was something wrong with them, like they were inferior.

Looking around at superfund sites in Maine I figured that stuff must be all over the place.

elf
10-06-2018, 09:19 PM
All over our water supply here.

elf
10-06-2018, 09:21 PM
I'm glad I got out of there early. Only 3 years...
It was good pay but a tough job, exposed to all sorts of chemicals, smoke, oil mists and then working alloys like Berillium Copper, Tantalum etc. I didn't like dumping the triclorethyline in the bay, and suspected that it may be affecting the pregnant women. Girls really, they were in their 20's. It was shocking how many had several miscarriages and birth defects were not discussed much, they thought there was something wrong with them, like they were inferior.

Looking around at superfund sites in Maine I figured that stuff must be all over the place.

You see? Abuse. Everywhere money is to be made you find it. It's the power of money.

Look at my sig.

Paul Pless
10-06-2018, 09:23 PM
Sportfishing is tremendous in Michigan. One should be very careful about which fish you want to keep and eat though. . .

Canoeyawl
10-06-2018, 09:36 PM
Same with San Francisco bay, Mercury is a big one here because of the gold mining, and PCBs. I don't eat fish from that bay.
Monterey Bay has very good fish, it is full of exploded Army ordinance but it's really deep, 2000 fathoms, so Black Cod, yum

Breakaway
10-06-2018, 10:09 PM
Same with San Francisco bay, Mercury is a big one here because of the gold mining, and PCBs. I don't eat fish from that bay.
Monterey Bay has very good fish, it is full of exploded Army ordinance but it's really deep, 2000 fathoms, so Black Cod, yum

Sablefish migrate hundreds of miles and are loaded with mercury. No more contaminated than many other fish, but there it is.

Kevin

PeterSibley
10-07-2018, 01:47 AM
Exposure to very high concentrations of trichloroethylene can cause dizziness, headaches, sleepiness, incoordination, confusion, nausea, unconsciousness, and even death. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classify trichloroethylene as a human carcinogen.Nov 4, 2016

Canoeyawl
10-07-2018, 02:14 AM
Sablefish migrate hundreds of miles and are loaded with mercury. No more contaminated than many other fish, but there it is.

Kevin

Thanks for the heads up, locally it is rated "moderate" (Once a week...we eat it about once a month)

(Edit; Because I do a lot of welding, I blood test annually for lead, chrome, cadmium and mercury, nothing yet - so far, so good)

Andrew2
10-07-2018, 02:45 AM
Exposure to very high concentrations of trichloroethylene can cause dizziness, headaches, sleepiness, incoordination, confusion, nausea, unconsciousness, and even death. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classify trichloroethylene as a human carcinogen.Nov 4, 2016

Also, lots of people smoked back then. Drawing TCT through a cig produces phosegene.

downthecreek
10-07-2018, 03:02 AM
You see? Abuse. Everywhere money is to be made you find it. It's the power of money.

'Avarice'

Money, thou bane of blisse, & sourse of wo,
Whence com’st thou, that thou art so fresh and fine?
I know thy parentage is base and low:
Man found thee poore and dirtie in a mine.
Surely thou didst so little contribute
To this great kingdome, which thou now hast got,
That he was fain, when thou wert destitute,
To digge thee out of thy dark cave and grot:
Then forcing thee by fire he made thee bright:
Nay, thou hast got the face of man; for we
Have with our stamp and seal transferr’d our right:
Thou art the man, and man but drosse to thee.
Man calleth thee his wealth, who made thee rich;
And while he digs out thee, falls in the ditch.

George Herbert

hawkeye54
10-07-2018, 05:40 AM
What a way to start my morning ...... Back at the time of the OP, I was in the US Navy, working on missile systems and gun mounts - rare was the day we were not applying molybdenum disulfide grease with rags (barehanded), and cleaning off the old with 'trichlor' - one of my team was working at cleaning a vertical missile cell with the stuff and passed out. We had to pull him up on a rope, and get him to fresh air. In later life, I continued to use 'gold can' cleaning fluid (again trichlor ) to clean printer trains and print bands ( the rotating bands that an impact printer hits to make letters on paper ) . It truly was some nasty stuff we did not treat as cautiously as we should have.




Rick

Paul Pless
10-07-2018, 06:19 AM
benzophenone
ethyl acrylate
methyl eugenol
myrcene
pulegone
pyridine

The FDA just this week 'banned' the above food additives. Widely used in the industrial food industry for decades and known to be carcinogens for many years now. They have never been required to be disclosed on food labels and instead are listed as 'other natural and artificial flavors'. They've been banned in Korea, Japan and Europe for over a decade. The ban here, in the U.S. is going to phase in over the next two years, to allow the manufacturers time to deal with 'labeling' issues. . .

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
10-07-2018, 07:41 AM
Dealt with medium large quantities of tric in two different places;

First was a small engineering company who used a vapour degreaser, a seven foot tall narrow tank where a vat of boiling solvent produced a cloud of vapur in which the parts were hung - above the parts were a series of cooling tubes to prevent the vapour escaping..... One day an electrician turned up to check it out - he put his head over the tank and - unable to see - stretched a hand holding a plastic torch down into the hot vapour - the torch dissolved and began to look like something from Dali...

Second time was an electronics company who used it to remove the flux from PCBs after flow soldering a colleague earned the nickname "Doctor Death" by turning on the heater but forgetting the cooling water...

Garret
10-07-2018, 09:35 AM
Exposure. It sucks. If I put bare hands in a SafetyClean parts washer for more than about 30 seconds - my hands "buzz" for 15-20 minutes afterwards. I don't do that any more. If I go into a garage that's running a car without an exhaust hose, I'll have a splitting headache in a minute or 2.

I don't like to think about what this stuff has done to me.

Andrew2
10-07-2018, 11:06 AM
Also, when I was young, there was a clothes cleaner called Dab-it-off. TCT in a jar with a fabric bung in the top. You upended the jar and used the wet bung to clean whatever grease had marked the cloth. Quite liked the smell as a kid, but nothing like the exposure talked about here.
Working at an off-grid airfield, first thing in the day was cranking up the big gen-set. Occasionally it did not produce power, so a wash with TCT on the brushes sorted the prob. By then ('70) we were well aware of the nasty effects, so avoided sniffing it or getting too much skin contact.

Canoeyawl
10-07-2018, 11:44 AM
The unit I worked with was also a vapor degreaser, all stainless steel, maybe 6'x 4', with a band of square cooling pipe near the top. The solvent would evaporate then condense and fall back into the solution. The parts were ultrasonically "scrubbed" in the liquid at the lower part of the tank and then "rinsed" while suspended in the vapour. It was heated to about 180°f. and as noted above there was a "fog" in the tank with a discrete layer separating the hot vapor "fog" from the atmosphere above. I can see how Dr. Death earned his name. Fortunately for me the tank was separated from my department by a door but I could smell it whenever anyone came through though, kind of sweet. Unfortunately in the beginning my job was to clean it and change the solvent. Good that I was rapidly advanced to a "set-up" man.
I use to come in on weekends and clean motorcycle parts. It was a really good parts cleaner...

Has anyone read the book "The Poison Squad"?
(Caught a blurb on NPR the other day, is is about the formation of the FDA)
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/312067/the-poison-squad-by-deborah-blum/9781594205149/

ccmanuals
10-07-2018, 03:22 PM
We spent a half a billion dollars cleaning up pollution on 32 closed AF bases

Paul Pless
10-07-2018, 03:27 PM
michigan is now dealing with a bunch of pfas (and pfos) from its air force base, they did firefighting training here for air national guard units that rolled through

pfas is considered dangerous in the parts per billion ration, yet there is no known remediation for it if its in the groundwater, which of course it is

pfas is also showing up here at leather tanneries and upholstery upgraders where it was used as a water proofing treatment

after mercury, other heavy metals, pcb; pfas is looking like the next big thing, as far water contamination goes

Breakaway
10-07-2018, 03:49 PM
michigan is now dealing with a bunch of pfas (and pfos) from its air force base, they did firefighting training here for air national guard units that rolled through

pfas is considered dangerous in the parts per billion ration, yet there is no known remediation for it if its in the groundwater, which of course it is

pfas is also showing up here at leather tanneries and upholstery upgraders where it was used as a water proofing treatment

after mercury, other heavy metals, pcb; pfas is looking like the next big thing, as far water contamination goes


We have a plume of it in our groundwater nearby, from an Air National Guard base.

Kevin

Garret
10-07-2018, 03:50 PM
We've got pfa's from a battery plant.

Paul Pless
10-07-2018, 03:56 PM
because of the park we live in which extends for dozens of miles kat and i are pretty well isolated from industrial and ag runoff on our own property - further, we're on a well and we live on the highest point in hell, so i hope that protects us somewhat

however, all of the lakes and rivers and streams that we play in during the summer and fish in near our home are part of the huron river watershed and actually the huron river flows through practically the entire park and it is a major river flowing through some of the most heavily industrialised parts of detroit and the auto manufacturing corridor north of detroit before it winds its way downstream to us

its a worry

Canoeyawl
10-07-2018, 03:59 PM
I had a friend that grew up there in the 50's and he had a very different name for Lake Huron. It is all a shame that corporate greed has run over us roughshod.

Paul Pless
10-07-2018, 04:14 PM
funny that the great lakes salvation lies somewhat thanks to the invasive quagga mussel

Canoeyawl
10-07-2018, 04:16 PM
Stranger tales have been told, San Francisco bay and it's delta was saved by a few duck hunters.

Paul Pless
10-07-2018, 04:30 PM
it would go a lot faster (lake cleanup) if we'd harvest the mussels and remove them from the lakes before they died
allow them to dessicate on land then treat their remains. . .

hawkeye54
10-08-2018, 12:04 AM
I have had a skin issue on two fingers of one hand and three knuckles of that hand with a 'scaly, cracked' skin appearance for some years now, I am set for another doctor / dermatologist consult the end of the week - I had not yet tied together that issue with use of trichlorethy lens - but will discuss it - I have not yet read the linked data in the OP





Rick

BrianW
10-08-2018, 12:08 AM
I've used a lot of Trich, but not as much as most of you folks. Plus MEK, Mastinox, etc.

Hoping for the best!