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View Full Version : Cape Cod CL Pete Culler design Concordia



goodbasil
09-27-2018, 09:51 PM
https://capecod.craigslist.org/boa/d/pete-culler-designed-concordia/6697477022.html

Looks healthy.

TomF
09-28-2018, 09:11 AM
Damn, looks really interesting, though a bit too far away. What can folks tell me about this particular Culler design?

bamamick
09-28-2018, 09:39 AM
I always thought of this as one of those 'perfect boats'.

This is just the kind of thing I would have jumped on a few years ago.

Mickey Lake

TomF
09-28-2018, 10:05 AM
If Herself concurs (which is a real stretch at present), do we have anyone closeby enough to take a look on my behalf?

Garret
09-28-2018, 10:11 AM
I believe Ian is quite close. Wish I were closer - pretty boat.

amish rob
09-28-2018, 10:13 AM
If Herself concurs (which is a real stretch at present), do we have anyone closeby enough to take a look on my behalf?

There has never been a more gothic sailboat designed or built. Period.

Does that help? :)

I agree with Mickey. One of my favorite Pete boats, and I like a lot of his boats.

Peace,
Good Old Robert

adampet
09-28-2018, 12:51 PM
Might know PO. he might be willing to chat if the interest is serious.
Adam

TomF
09-28-2018, 12:56 PM
Thanks folks. I will discuss at home, and we'll see what comes of it.

bamamick
09-28-2018, 06:02 PM
Good luck, Tom. This is a marvelous boat and one you can enjoy for a lifetime.

Mickey Lake

TomF
10-04-2018, 03:20 PM
Bump. Fingers crossed. And toes, and any other handy appendages.

Herself and I have come to An Agreement, so we shall see what future unfolds when my trusted spies on the ground can make a report back ...

Garret
10-04-2018, 03:38 PM
Bump. Fingers crossed. And toes, and any other handy appendages.

Herself and I have come to An Agreement, so we shall see what future unfolds when my trusted spies on the ground can make a report back ...

Cool! Too bad you wouldn't be bringing it home by way of Vermont. Of course if you want to, you've got an overnight stop available. Maybe visit those obstreperous Montrealers on your way home?

Paul Pless
10-04-2018, 03:42 PM
coolness tom

i love this boat design

TomF
10-04-2018, 03:42 PM
Ha! It does seem more possible that I may be able to bend an elbow with a couple of Cape Cod based Bilge rats. If the stars align.

Garret
10-04-2018, 03:44 PM
Ha! It does seem more possible that I may be able to bend an elbow with a couple of Cape Cod based Bilge rats. If the stars align.

I'd drive to that (if welcome of course).

Ian McColgin
10-04-2018, 03:45 PM
I'm on the case. Know where she is.

I expect to give a full report after communicating with Tom and after he decides whether or not this is the boat of his dreams.

TomF
10-04-2018, 03:58 PM
I'd drive to that (if welcome of course).
Trying so hard not to get ahead of myself... :D

bamamick
10-04-2018, 06:24 PM
It is tough isn't it? The excitement of finding and buying a boat is something I have done more times than I can count, and I loved doing it. Now I would just like to get my cat boat in the water and have time to enjoy it.

Mickey Lake

Ian McColgin
10-04-2018, 07:48 PM
Could not reach my side kick so didn't view this evening. Hope tomorrow or latest Saturday.

TomF
10-04-2018, 08:17 PM
Not to worry. Delayed gratification is good. :)

rbgarr
10-04-2018, 08:22 PM
She's this design https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984/Concordia-Sloop-2983459/ME/United-States#.W7a8hFJRdWQ

Garret
10-04-2018, 08:22 PM
Right... Keep telling yourself that!

TomF
10-04-2018, 08:27 PM
:d :d :d

Nicholas Carey
10-04-2018, 09:07 PM
I've sailed a Concordia sloop. Initial stability? ... "Not so good" is putting it kindly. Never pushed its limits. [Loose] inside ballast, too -- several hundred pounds of lead pigs IIRC -- so if you do push the limits, it can get dramatically worse very quickly.

Awfully pretty boat, tho.

StevenBauer
10-05-2018, 08:23 PM
Isnít it a Concordia Sloop Boatí? Pretty cool. Thereís a brand new Pete Culler Good Little Skiff here at the MASCF. The builder was varnishing her last night. Iíll get a pic in the morning.

Garret
10-05-2018, 08:28 PM
Isn’t it a Concordia Sloop Boat’? Pretty cool. There’s a brand new Pete Culler Good Little Skiff here at the MASCF. The builder was varnishing her last night. I’ll get a pic in the morning.

Be interested to see it Steven - I have one (and the owner needs to varnish...).

john l
10-05-2018, 10:05 PM
I seem to recall that the Landing School built versions added 3" of beam offset initial stability issues in original design.

TomF
10-06-2018, 09:26 PM
Stable or not, we are trying to push forward. Will know within a couple of days. Ian and a friend paid her a visit today, and while there are certainly things to do on her, nothing seems fatal. So we are at the negotiating stage...

amish rob
10-06-2018, 09:30 PM
Stable or not, we are trying to push forward. Will know within a couple of days. Ian and a friend paid her a visit today, and while there are certainly things to do on her, nothing seems fatal. So we are at the negotiating stage...
Make them an offer they can’t refuse. Harharhar.

Peace,
Don Knotts

Breakaway
10-06-2018, 10:10 PM
Good luck!

Kevin

TomF
10-07-2018, 06:21 PM
Yup. Next week, or the one following, she comes to a new home.

amish rob
10-07-2018, 06:26 PM
It works! The system works!

Peace,
Robert

TomF
10-07-2018, 06:47 PM
Crazy, eh?!

Garret
10-07-2018, 06:58 PM
Cool! Let us know how it will play out.

The system works very well here. A great bunch of knowledgeable, supportive folks.

amish rob
10-07-2018, 07:06 PM
Great. Next request:

Someone kick Tom right in the shin! Hahaha.

I am so happy for you, as you well know. Enjoy it in good health for many generations.

Peace,
Robert

TomF
10-07-2018, 07:18 PM
I'll have one of my sons do that. Obliging young cannibals that they are.

Durnik
10-07-2018, 07:28 PM
and soon, you'll be flying with The Wind..

cool.

amish rob
10-07-2018, 07:28 PM
The big one. And use pointy shoes.

That'll be good training for the trunk repair.

Peace,
No Metal Lathe ;):)

Breakaway
10-07-2018, 09:39 PM
Well, congrats! ( and post pictures)


Kevin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ian McColgin
10-07-2018, 11:20 PM
Now I feel free to post a pic. This shows both why Tom will be making a new centerboard trunk and a very cool classic Culler bilge pump. Gordon is holding the works.

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43354645_10212632869631787_3739598883274096640_o.j pg?_nc_cat=107&oh=d98c321b5093d5764510dd6c2df61381&oe=5C49B815

skuthorp
10-08-2018, 06:03 AM
Congratulations Tom, I do like the design, and the price!

C. Ross
10-08-2018, 07:23 AM
Excellent! I'm really happy for you Tom!

TomF
10-08-2018, 07:45 AM
Think we will re-christen the vessel as "Herself." :D

C. Ross
10-08-2018, 08:09 AM
Wise man.

George Jung
10-08-2018, 08:43 AM
Congrats, Tom - and isn't this just a great place? Virtual friends is the best!

amish rob
10-08-2018, 08:56 AM
Now I feel free to post a pic. This shows both why Tom will be making a new centerboard trunk and a very cool classic Culler bilge pump. Gordon is holding the works.

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43354645_10212632869631787_3739598883274096640_o.j pg?_nc_cat=107&oh=d98c321b5093d5764510dd6c2df61381&oe=5C49B815

Hearty cheers to you, Ian. Many thanks on behalf of my buddy!

This is a cool place.

Peace,
Robert

Flying Orca
10-08-2018, 08:56 AM
So cool. Congratulations, Tom.

TomF
10-08-2018, 09:35 AM
Yeah, well between goodbasil who started the thread, and the Cape Cod mafia who figured it was worth snapping up...

oznabrag
10-08-2018, 09:44 AM
Yup. Next week, or the one following, she comes to a new home.


Yeah, well between goodbasil who started the thread, and the Cape Cod mafia who figured it was worth snapping up...

Maybe you can get someone to kick the OTHER shin!

:D

Good onya, Tom!

bamamick
10-08-2018, 10:34 AM
This is wonderful news, Tom. I am so happy for you.

Mickey Lake

Old Dryfoot
10-08-2018, 10:53 AM
Ha! I knew it, as soon as I saw the sticky!

Congratulations!

Lew Barrett
10-08-2018, 11:50 AM
Very nicely done all around. Best wishes from Lagos, Portugal!

George Jung
10-08-2018, 03:13 PM
Hey Lew - ya tired of having fun yet? (and who's babysitting the 'toy' back home?)

Phil Y
10-08-2018, 04:05 PM
Congratulations Tom, hope you have a ball.

leikec
10-08-2018, 07:17 PM
When are we going sailing? :D

Jeff C

PeterSibley
10-08-2018, 11:01 PM
Congratulations Tom, she really is a fine looking boat !

https://images.craigslist.org/00t0t_5FBRZx7nvD7_600x450.jpg

Keith Wilson
10-08-2018, 11:05 PM
Well, that's very cool! One of the prettiest small boats ever, for one of the best guys on the WBF. 'Herself' would be a great name.

http://www.carmansrivermaritime.org/Sale/Auction_images/elViento2.jpg

johnw
10-09-2018, 12:38 AM
I've sailed a Concordia sloop. Initial stability? ... "Not so good" is putting it kindly. Never pushed its limits. [Loose] inside ballast, too -- several hundred pounds of lead pigs IIRC -- so if you do push the limits, it can get dramatically worse very quickly.

Awfully pretty boat, tho.

I've sailed a couple of them, both caravel planked. If you want a boat to row well, you can't make it too stable, and this was designed for both sail and oar. I found it a pleasant boat to sail. Not as quick or as safe as a racing dinghy, but a lot less work. It does need the ballast, and would not be a good boat without it.

C. Ross
10-09-2018, 02:37 AM
When do you take delivery?

bamamick
10-09-2018, 05:50 AM
What is the ballast, usually, and how much are we talking about?

Mickey Lake

TomF
10-09-2018, 06:29 AM
Just trying to sort out delivery dates. Will be next Saturday or the one following. Should know today or tomorrow.

Tom Montgomery
10-09-2018, 11:16 AM
Are we sure that is Capt. Pete's Concordia Sloop Boat and not his Buzzards Bay Sloop? I have the plans for both. The Sloop Boat is 17' 7" long and designed for carvel planking. The Buzzards Bay is 18' 8" long and designed for lapstrake planking. The Sloop Boat is lighter and unstayed. The Buzzards Bay has shrouds and is a heavier design.

I believe Ian is familiar with both. If he says it is a lapstrake Concordia Sloop Boat then that is that. They are both very nice indeed. :)

TomF
10-09-2018, 11:33 AM
We've had that discussion, and need to put a measuring tape on her to be certain. There are stays on this boat, and it is lapstrake ... but various builders of the smaller version built her lapstrake too (with Culler's blessing), and may have put stays on out of fear of/unfamiliarity with an unstayed rig. So we don't know. What's clear is that the present owner has represented her as the one thing, but without a measuring tape validating LOA and beam, we don't quite know. :D

goodbasil
10-09-2018, 02:28 PM
I've done my good turn for the day. I feel fuzzy all over.


( NB Buy your US $'s at a Canadian Credit Union. Take it down and pay cash. That is usually the cheapest way. Do let us know about all the loops you have to jump through to get her to Canuckyland.)

Tom Montgomery
10-09-2018, 02:29 PM
Here are the particulars on the two boats.

Concordia Sloopboat
LOA: 17' 7"
Beam: 5'
Draft: 1' 6"
SA: 172 sq. ft.
Inside ballast

Buzzards Bay Sloop
LOA: 18' 8"
Beam: 6'
Draft: 2'
SA: 177 sq. ft.
Outside ballast

C. Ross
10-10-2018, 05:47 AM
Do let us know about all the loops you have to jump through to get her to Canuckyland.)

Are you going to get it yourself Tom? When I bought Lady Cliff in Toronto in 2006, I had a shipper bring it here. The process was rather more complicated than I expected, and I hired FedEx as the "shipping agent" to get her through both Canadian and American customs, who each had different requirements.

Everyone told me it would have been easier if I had been at the border for the deal.

TomF
10-10-2018, 06:52 AM
Plan is that I do it, driving down on a Saturday and back on the Sunday. Great excuse for a road trip, and probably my 20 year old son and I will do it together. Kinda fun - this will be the first such trip in that little Ford Ranger that he and I bought together last year, and which we've been slowly renewing all Summer.

C. Ross
10-10-2018, 07:11 AM
Awesome, especially the Ford Ranger part. It was built five miles from where I live in a plant that's torn down.

If you haven't checked into what paperwork you'll need for both customs agencies you might. It was a lot in 2006 - a simple bill of sale was not enough. I had to pay a small duty, but it would have been a lot more if I hadn't used FedEx to do the deal. My boat was $65K yours $10k, so not really that much of a difference.

Garret
10-10-2018, 07:19 AM
Awesome, especially the Ford Ranger part. It was built five miles from where I live in a plant that's torn down.

If you haven't checked into what paperwork you'll need for both customs agencies you might. It was a lot in 2006 - a simple bill of sale was not enough. I had to pay a small duty, but it would have been a lot more if I hadn't used FedEx to do the deal. My boat was $65K yours $10k, so not really that much of a difference.

At least he's dealing with getting it into Canada instead of into the US. My experience with most US border agents is that you are doing something wrong until you prove you aren't...

TomF
10-10-2018, 07:31 AM
I will indeed check. I had assumed that I would need a bill of sale, and have it for the trailer at least early enough that I could get some New Brunswick plates for it before I go. I had thought about the Canadian customs part, but not the US customs...

C. Ross
10-10-2018, 08:08 AM
The U.S. presented more challenges, but leaving Canada wasn’t easy.

For nostalgia sake (and maybe to help Tom) I looked up the sites:

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/declare-eng.html
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/clearing-cbp/certificate-registration

Note that the US suggests you visit a border protection office to register your purchased goods prior to return. Maybe you could stop at the border on your way down? It might help if you can tell the people there on your return that you did exactly what their guy told you to do.

Sorry to be a buzzkill. I’m excited about your new boat!

TomF
10-10-2018, 08:15 AM
No buzzkilling, rather the opposite. Thanks Cris!

TomF
10-10-2018, 10:35 AM
OK, so dates are firming up. Will show up on the Cape sometime late afternoon on Saturday Oct 20, and drive away with the new toys on Sunday morning. Leaving early enough that I will have daylight for most of the 8 hour drive home, and won't have to dodge too many moose in the dark.

Which means that I am free for an EBS on Saturday night. If the lad does drive with me... what is the drinking age in MA?

Tom Wilkinson
10-10-2018, 10:40 AM
what is the drinking age in MA?
21, Assuming you are drinking at an establishment. If you are at someones house and you decide to give your son a beer or two....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/18/where-teenagers-can-legally-drink-in-the-u-s-yes-really/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3e10ce1fdb5e

TomF
10-10-2018, 10:44 AM
Hmm. Bears considering, as the lad is 20.

George Jung
10-10-2018, 11:08 AM
Wish I was 'a lad'. I used to be! Good times.

And of course, this should devolve into a piktur thread.

Tom Wilkinson
10-10-2018, 11:30 AM
Hmm. Bears considering, as the lad is 20.

Every states laws are different but if he isn't driving and is with you, you should be OK in MA.

NH, the "live free or die" state, is probably more restrictive.

amish rob
10-10-2018, 11:32 AM
Waste of a perfect designated driver, if you ask me.

Peace,
Expert Something Or Otherer

TomF
10-10-2018, 12:03 PM
Waste of a perfect designated driver, if you ask me.Excellent thought. :D

Tom Wilkinson
10-10-2018, 12:09 PM
Waste of a perfect designated driver, if you ask me.

Peace,
Expert Something Or Otherer

I'd rather enjoy 1 or 2 beers with my son than drink enough that I needed a designated driver.

TomF
10-10-2018, 12:21 PM
The laws changed a year or two back here in New Brunswick - if you're under a certain age (25, I think), you can't drive with any blood alcohol level at all. Zip, nada, zilch. The rest of us can still have the 0.08 thing, but not youngsters. So any group of young folks, even if all are of age, needs a designated driver.

amish rob
10-10-2018, 01:01 PM
I'd rather enjoy 1 or 2 beers with my son than drink enough that I needed a designated driver.
Iíd never drive after drinking, especially with my children in the car.

Iíd have one or two beers with my legal friends, and have my son learn the responsibility of being in charge of the truck and boat.
I donít remember the last time I was inebriated, in any way, anyway.

Peace,
Robert

Tom Wilkinson
10-10-2018, 01:15 PM
I’d never drive after drinking, especially with my children in the car.

I’d have one or two beers with my legal friends, and have my son learn the responsibility of being in charge of the truck and boat.
I don’t remember the last time I was inebriated, in any way, anyway.

Peace,
Robert

I never drink enough for it to matter either, and Tom is from a country with a lower drinking age so having a beer or two with his son is probably not an uncommon occurrence (I believe we are talking about someone over 18 or 19, not a child per se). Having a beer with my boy was a nice experience while in Germany, and he was well under the legal limit here. He ended up switching to coke. Teaching them that you can drink responsibly is a worthwhile thing. There is no shame in switching to non-alcoholic drinks when driving is required.

amish rob
10-10-2018, 01:38 PM
Sorry TomF.

Iím out. I have a tendency to do this, somehow...

Peace,
Robert

TomF
10-10-2018, 01:50 PM
Gents, no harm no foul. I helped my son develop a taste for craft brew rather than mass-market suds a bit before he was of age where we live, in part because I wanted him to discover the sheer enjoyment of a great brew. And also to discover that the best way to recognize when you're having such a brew is to not have twelve. Ahem. Interestingly, one of the first things he did when he actually turned "legal" here was to spend a year being "Straight Edge" - choosing to have nothing to do with alcohol or etc. of any type. He wanted to assert his control over his habits, rather than just get carried along. But really, no harm no foul, gentlemen both.

Tom Wilkinson
10-10-2018, 03:33 PM
Gents, no harm no foul. I helped my son develop a taste for craft brew rather than mass-market suds a bit before he was of age where we live, in part because I wanted him to discover the sheer enjoyment of a great brew. And also to discover that the best way to recognize when you're having such a brew is to not have twelve. Ahem. Interestingly, one of the first things he did when he actually turned "legal" here was to spend a year being "Straight Edge" - choosing to have nothing to do with alcohol or etc. of any type. He wanted to assert his control over his habits, rather than just get carried along. But really, no harm no foul, gentlemen both.

Sorry for the sidebar, but it seemed a worthy discussion. Congrats on the boat and enjoy the trip!

C. Ross
10-10-2018, 04:25 PM
Which means that I am free for an EBS on Saturday night. If the lad does drive with me... what is the drinking age in MA?

Oh man I wish I could be in Boston on Sat. Hope something works out for you all.

Ian McColgin
10-10-2018, 06:58 PM
It comes together. We have a number of good local breweries and I even have growlers at one. So we could have a house party. Or we could have meet at some place like the Chatham Squire followed by a gathering someplace. If Tom's motel is not suitable, I could clean up the construction pit known as Meg Merrilies that we could tell tales till all hours. That's about 20 minutes from Tom's new boat.

If we go ahead, we need to get Emily and Adam Pettingill and others.

TomF
10-10-2018, 07:08 PM
Sounds brilliant. Should music happen too?

Ian McColgin
10-10-2018, 07:10 PM
Music should always happen.

TomF
10-10-2018, 07:13 PM
Right. I'll bring a couple of things, but I'm not a guitar player. Someone else has to do that.

Ian McColgin
10-11-2018, 04:55 AM
There's no telling. The folk I think of right off are only a little more musical than I am, and when I sing sea gulls fall dead from the sky.

TomF
10-11-2018, 05:51 AM
Odd gesture of appreciation... ;)

Harry Miller
10-11-2018, 08:55 AM
Congratulations to you and both herselves.

amish rob
10-11-2018, 09:12 AM
There's no telling. The folk I think of right off are only a little more musical than I am, and when I sing sea gulls fall dead from the sky.

You and me could start the worst duet in the history of mankind then. Last time I sang, the neighborhood dogs got up a petition with nearly 5,000 signatures.
Now when I play, I just hum. Softly.

Peace,
Wish I Could Be There To Play...

StevenBauer
10-12-2018, 12:35 PM
If you want to take a break on your way back home Portland is about halfway. There are a bunch of breweries with some seriously good food trucks just about a mile from the exit on I-95.

TomF
10-12-2018, 12:44 PM
Hmmmmm Sounds like a good thing to keep in the back pocket. Or front pocket, for that matter. :D

Ian McColgin
10-12-2018, 07:21 PM
Wish this were really still a sticky - Anyway

Cape Cod EBS for Tom Saturday night 20 October. We'll home in on a time and place as we get closer. Maybe start with the Chathanm Squire or Brax Landing and go from there.

TomF
10-12-2018, 07:53 PM
I'm in! :D

TomF
10-16-2018, 01:39 PM
Bump. Our little trade war with America has added a 10% surcharge to my boat's price - dang. A surcharge on sailboats, apparently. For all of that, it's otherwise as easy to import as a couch, say the Canadian bureaucrats - in part because there's no engine. Actually, the boat trailer is gonna take more hoops to get across the border than the boat itself - an import charge, an inspection once in Canada, and only then can I get a New Brunswick license plate for it. Till then, I'll be borrowing the seller's MA plate. Aargh. On the upside though, the lad and I are getting quite excited about driving down this Saturday, meeting up with a few New England forumites, and bringing her home the next day.

Breakaway
10-17-2018, 05:56 PM
You must be getting excited!

Kevin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ian McColgin
10-17-2018, 06:27 PM
Not too early to plan Saturday dinner. That starts with Tom hinting as to when he might arrive.

Does that trailer even have a tag? Is the owner happy with your driving off with it?

TomF
10-17-2018, 06:39 PM
8 hours of driving, I understand. Not including getting lost and found again. Or eating lunch. I figure we will try to arrive sometime near 5, but since this is my first rodeo, I dunno exactly.

TomF
10-17-2018, 06:40 PM
And yeah. Excited ain't the half of it. :D

TomF
10-18-2018, 07:36 AM
As my kids used to say, "Only 2 sleeps now."

Paul Pless
10-18-2018, 07:50 AM
8 hours of driving, I understand. You're driving through portland, portsmouth, and BOSTON, right?

Ian McColgin
10-18-2018, 07:55 AM
So, Saturday dinner.

I like the Chatham Squire, of course, being so regular. But Brax Landing in Harwich might work.

Joe (SoCal)
10-18-2018, 08:13 AM
This is one exciting thread. Good on everyone on the forum - THIS is what digital friends are all about.
If I was still back east I would be there, photo bombing the whole thing :D

Good on everyone involved, as Ian likes to say "Finestkind"

OH AN SCOT MAKE WITH THE STICKY STAT !!!!

Garret
10-18-2018, 09:01 AM
You're driving through portland, portsmouth, and BOSTON, right?

Is there any traffic around Boston @ 3:00PM?

amish rob
10-18-2018, 09:06 AM
What? Last summer we got routed down The Strip on a Friday night due to highway construction in Vegas. So what if Iíd been driving for 8 hours and was towing a trailer with two boats on it? Party!

Did you know Vegas gets crowded on a Friday night in the summer? We never knew.

Youíll be fine, even if you ruin every snap chat with a string of powerful profanities. :)

Peace,
MumbleCusser

TomF
10-18-2018, 09:08 AM
Is there any traffic around Boston @ 3:00PM?Maybe less on a Saturday, I'd hope ...

TomF
10-18-2018, 09:14 AM
Does that trailer even have a tag? Is the owner happy with your driving off with it?Trailer has a tag, and the seller's gonna let me drive away with it so long as I send it back. (he runs another trailer too). A bizarre aspect of this purchase is that it will take more effort to get a piddly little used boat trailer through the border and legit in New Brunswick than it will the boat itself. And I can't get a New Brunswick license plate for it until it's had that inspection at a Canadian location to show that it's not been stupidly altered from stock. The Canadian Border Service Agency tells me that the engineless boat ... well, they treat it just like I was buying a couch. :D But a boat trailer is officially a "Vehicle." Oooohh. So they told me that my only option was to drive it into Canada with MA tags on it - whether loaned by the seller, or obtained as temporary stickers from the MA government.

amish rob
10-18-2018, 09:16 AM
Trailer has a tag, and the seller's gonna let me drive away with it so long as I send it back. (he runs another trailer too). A bizarre aspect of this purchase is that it will take more effort to get a piddly little used boat trailer through the border and legit in New Brunswick than it will the boat itself. And I can't get a New Brunswick license plate for it until it's had that inspection at a Canadian location to show that it's not been stupidly altered from stock. The Canadian Border Service Agency tells me that the engineless boat ... well, they treat it just like I was buying a couch. :D But a boat trailer is officially a "Vehicle." Oooohh. So they told me that my only option was to drive it into Canada with MA tags on it - whether loaned by the seller, or obtained as temporary stickers from the MA government.

Geez. Those dudes need a bong rip.

Peace,
Shin Kicker, First Class

C. Ross
10-18-2018, 12:49 PM
Geez. Those dudes need a bong rip.

Peace,
Shin Kicker, First Class

How do you think they invented the rules?

George Jung
10-18-2018, 12:59 PM
You could just cartop it, Tom.... who needs a stinkin' trailer? :P

rbgarr
10-18-2018, 01:20 PM
Now that pot is legal in Canada, US Border Agents may refuse entry if you have or have even used marijuana with any regularity. Decisions are made on a case by case basis, so what will happen is a mystery until you arrive at the border. The headline of this article (see link) is misleading because the 'air' isn't cleared at all! https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/10/17/feds-clear-air-crossing-border-after-canada-legalizes-marijuana/1659380002/

TomF
10-18-2018, 02:23 PM
A good thought, but it won't be an issue for us, rbgarr. For all that I'm sure it will be a discussion point at the border. I was never interested in using pot, and my lad's High School experimenting actually left him surprisingly firmly not in favour of his own use of it. Really doesn't like how it makes him feel or think, so he hasn't touched it in a few years.

TomF
10-19-2018, 09:01 AM
One more sleep 'till the sloop. Slick!

Garret
10-19-2018, 09:04 AM
I hope that the whole process is a lot of fun (OK - the border is never fun...). I had hoped to make it down for the get-together, but the gods of fall chores have decreed otherwise.

Please hoist a good brew for me!

Ian McColgin
10-19-2018, 09:08 AM
I'm sure that Tom's lust to embrace the sloopboat will be cooling as it gets dark (sunset c. 1800, dark by 1820) and hunger pangs encroach.

What say 1900 at the Chatham Squire?

amish rob
10-19-2018, 09:23 AM
I'm sure that Tom's lust to embrace the sloopboat will be cooling as it gets dark (sunset c. 1800, dark by 1820) and hunger pangs encroach.

What say 1900 at the Chatham Squire?

Please wear your pointiest boots, and deliver one sharp rap to each of his shins, first! Then merriment. Hahaha.

And, Thanks. Youíve done a real service for a friend of us all, and itís super cool. Because of you, we all get to see pictures of Tom sailing this boat.

Peace,
Robert

TomF
10-19-2018, 09:33 AM
Sounds great - the lad and I will find our way there. Frivolity or bust.

Tom Wilkinson
10-19-2018, 09:38 AM
Wish I could make the EBS since I just landed in Boston this am but alas I have a septic system issue to tend to in NH.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

amish rob
10-19-2018, 09:39 AM
Right in the shin!

Peace,
Darn Geography!

TomF
10-20-2018, 09:04 PM
24838ok, so here is the dinner crew, proving that the lad and I arrived in one piece, and sane enough to be seen in public with Ian at least. :D. Thanks to the rest of the boat loving ruffians too for a great conversation.

The boat... she is dreamy. Literally, like we are in a dream. Pics tomorrow, evidence of Tom and the lad's excellent adventure.

Gratitude all round.

johnw
10-21-2018, 01:52 PM
24838ok, so here is the dinner crew, proving that the lad and I arrived in one piece, and sane enough to be seen in public with Ian at least. :D. Thanks to the rest of the boat loving ruffians too for a great conversation.

The boat... she is dreamy. Literally, like we are in a dream. Pics tomorrow, evidence of Tom and the lad's excellent adventure.

Gratitude all round.
That guy in front looks like a Trotskyvite. My advice to him is, don't trust anyone with an ice ax.

Joe (SoCal)
10-21-2018, 01:55 PM
Scot sticky stat !!!!

goodbasil
10-21-2018, 02:58 PM
Could someone do a left to right name list.

They all look like can collectors.

Joe (SoCal)
10-21-2018, 03:32 PM
Whew so the little black triangle works for other things besides sending someone to bandcamp ;)

Thanks for the sticky scot Y>

Lew Barrett
10-21-2018, 03:32 PM
Scot sticky stat !!!!


For the second time!

goodbasil
10-21-2018, 03:59 PM
Your a good man Scott.

bamamick
10-21-2018, 04:15 PM
A wonderful adventure.

Mickey Lake

Ian McColgin
10-21-2018, 04:23 PM
Around clockwise: Gordon Stacey (boatbuilder, mechanic, sailor), Bob Wallace (tug captain, pilot, boat builder, nautical historian), Suzanne "Call me Phil) Phillips (retired attorney, shellfish warden, propagation specialist, activist), myself and Fetters.

Paul Pless
10-21-2018, 05:28 PM
wth? there was an ebs on the cape and emily did not show up???

what have you gentleman and suzanne done with elf?

Garret
10-21-2018, 06:36 PM
Judging by a post she made, she may have been in Vermont.

amish rob
10-21-2018, 08:40 PM
24838ok, so here is the dinner crew, proving that the lad and I arrived in one piece, and sane enough to be seen in public with Ian at least. :D. Thanks to the rest of the boat loving ruffians too for a great conversation.

The boat... she is dreamy. Literally, like we are in a dream. Pics tomorrow, evidence of Tom and the lad's excellent adventure.

Gratitude all round.

Man, I got a lotta Instagram followers in that picture! Haha. Which, yeah. Brain broke, soul sapped makes scribbles dry up.

Hope you really did get that shin kick. And really arenít driving. :D

Peace,
Robert

StevenBauer
10-21-2018, 08:46 PM
I hope all is going well on the road home. Seems they got off to a late start today.

Ian McColgin
10-22-2018, 07:57 AM
At 0104 I got a text from Tom that he was ten minutes from home. So he may be a little sloggy at the office today but I am sure will be carried along by that elation that comes with buying a boat.

Canoez
10-22-2018, 08:29 AM
Judging by a post she made, she may have been in Vermont.

Canada, I thought - for a concert or two after doing some photography in Vermont.

TomF
10-22-2018, 08:32 AM
An awesome trip, end to end. Arrived safe and sound, about 2 in the morning Fredericton time (we shift an hour from Eastern time, crossing into Canada's easterly provinces), after a great ride. No issues at the border, the boat trailer tracked like a champ the whole way, and the little truck ran like a top. Running smoother and more efficiently now than when we left home, actually.

Ian and his friend Gordon were utterly grand, helping through the inevitable little hiccups like trailer wiring, which ended up consuming Sunday morning. We then spend a splendid hour or so gawking at Meg, after Ian rowed is out to her mooring. Cripes, what a build she is. Lovely lovely. I reminded Ian that the St. John river in NB is navigable almost literally to my doorstep (the bridge halting navigation is maybe 2 blocks away), so we agreed to sail each others' boats at some point in the future, when he and Meg are out wandering.

I am just overwhelmed by the generosity of this place, and of each of the folks I'd contacted through this little adventure. As Gordon said as he under charged me for his work, "An awesome boat, an awesome wooden boat, a great Dad and son project, a sweet little truck. Hey, you're my people." We sure felt like it.

Now about this sadly neglected bit of my lad's education: he doesn't know how to sail yet. Hmm.

Garret
10-22-2018, 09:01 AM
Wonderful!

TomF
10-22-2018, 09:59 AM
As a bonus, we met up with a former owner in the parking lot outside a hardware store in Hyannis. He came over after spotting her on the trailer behind the truck. Had owned her back in the late 90s or thereabouts, and told us a few tales about how she'd proven to be "very weatherly" when he had taken her out on some exposed runs from one island to another. A great boat, he said. Slower than some, of course, but a really great boat. Despite a fair bit of head scratching he couldn't quite bring the builder's name to the tip of his tongue - but the builder was a guy who had worked with Pete Culler. I didn't quite catch it - I think he said that she'd likely been built up in Maine, but not sure of that last bit.

C. Ross
10-22-2018, 10:01 AM
Splendid, Tom. I'm happy for you and your son, and glad it went safely and smoothly!

Breakaway
10-22-2018, 11:28 AM
Now about this sadly neglected bit of my lad's education: he doesn't know how to sail yet. Hmm.

A situation sure to be rectified sooner than later, I suspect.

Well done, all!

Kevin

Ian McColgin
10-22-2018, 11:44 AM
I think we learned that the young man windsurfs. That means he gets it with center of resistance and center of effort. Which pretty much is what sailing is about.

TomF
10-22-2018, 11:52 AM
That he does. And in pretty much every other physical thing he has tried, from gymnastics to climbing to martial arts, he has had an uncanny sense of where his body is, and how to get it to be where it ought to be next. He will be fine at this, and loves how this boat looks. But if I'm honest, he might have been even more excited by something fast that would require him to be on a trapeze.

I'll let him find that for himself...

johnw
10-22-2018, 12:12 PM
So, did I miss something, or have we not yet learned which Pete Culler design this is?

pcford
10-22-2018, 12:18 PM
So, did I miss something, or have we not yet learned which Pete Culler design this is?

Concordia sloop, John. The Center for Wooden Boats used to have one. Pretty boat. Good that this one is in hurricane country, because that's what it would take to get it to move.

johnw
10-22-2018, 12:23 PM
Concordia sloop, John. The Center for Wooden Boats used to have one. Pretty boat. Good that this one is in hurricane country, because that's what it would take to get it to move.
Had you read the thread, you would be aware that I've sailed Concordia sloops many times. I was referring to this issue, from the second page of the thread:


Are we sure that is Capt. Pete's Concordia Sloop Boat and not his Buzzards Bay Sloop? I have the plans for both. The Sloop Boat is 17' 7" long and designed for carvel planking. The Buzzards Bay is 18' 8" long and designed for lapstrake planking. The Sloop Boat is lighter and unstayed. The Buzzards Bay has shrouds and is a heavier design.

I believe Ian is familiar with both. If he says it is a lapstrake Concordia Sloop Boat then that is that. They are both very nice indeed. :)

Ian McColgin
10-22-2018, 12:24 PM
Pics on the internet show a wide range of gaff lengths and especially angles. You see gaffs from a pretty flat 30 degrees to 45 or steeper. You're going to have new sails anyway so I'd urge that you work with a sailmaker to design a sail that peaks to at least 60 degrees with the gaff peak higher that the mast head. This may require a different configuration for the jaws and perhaps have the throat at full sail higher than now. No reason to be afraid of just making a new gaff if you want to change the length of the head.

In general, the higher you can peak the sail, the less the head will sag off. Especially when off the wind a lot of twist in the sail increases weather helm. As you get to a run not being able to get the boom well out because the gaff is wrapping itself around the shroud leads to an accidental "Chinese gybe" where the boom flings itself across while the gaff stays put, often resulting resulting in a torn leach.

No harm in a little extra sail area if you have easy reefing. Most sailmakers have access to an easy to use approximation program that lets you estimate how much sail a given hull can carry in various winds. I think a bigger main with a first reef really a working sail area that good when going from a Gentle Breeze (F3, 7-10 kts) to a Moderate Breeze (F4, 11-16 kts). Second reef should carry you in a Fresh Breeze and third reef good for a Strong Breeze and perhaps above.

Battenless vertical cut sails look quite wonderful and especially if of a soft cloth like Oceanus nice to handle. Tricky to cut since many don't really understand vertical cut and Oceanus has huge diagonal instability and some sailmakers have issues with making the seams without pucker if they don't have previous experience with the fabric.

TomF
10-22-2018, 12:26 PM
Finally put a tape on her while we were down there - she's the 17'8" Sloop Boat, rather than the later & larger iteration. The builder decided to put shrouds on her and build lapstrake, which is where the confusion really crept in for me. Cedar on oak, it appears.

TomF
10-22-2018, 12:33 PM
Thanks for that Ian - I'll keep it in mind when I talk to a sailmaker. Doubtless mmd can refer me to someone here in the Maritimes who's good at making vertically cut gaff sails for traditional small boats ... but if not, I'll ask the Forum's wisdom. I suspect that I'll try to limp through one season with just repairs and patches to the present tired suit, both to learn how to sail a gaffer myself and to get a bit of an inkling of what might better suit where I live. Though more area and a higher peak to the gaff, combined with a well considered set of reefs, sound pretty good. What I will have to figure out is how to offset the "she's too slow" argument for more sail area (esp up high) with the "she's too tippy" argument for less heeling force.

Ian McColgin
10-22-2018, 12:42 PM
But . . . The ad for the now sold sloopboat at http://www.carmansrivermaritime.org/Sale/culler.html has a nice promotional article by Waldo Howland. Worth the read. He makes a good argument for the gaff as designed with battenless vertical cut main and the virtues of super simplicity and but a single halyard for the main rather than throat and peak halyards necessary in a highly peaked gaff. The ad pic on the third page shows the off wind twist that is the major disadvantage.

johnw
10-22-2018, 02:10 PM
Thanks for that Ian - I'll keep it in mind when I talk to a sailmaker. Doubtless mmd can refer me to someone here in the Maritimes who's good at making vertically cut gaff sails for traditional small boats ... but if not, I'll ask the Forum's wisdom. I suspect that I'll try to limp through one season with just repairs and patches to the present tired suit, both to learn how to sail a gaffer myself and to get a bit of an inkling of what might better suit where I live. Though more area and a higher peak to the gaff, combined with a well considered set of reefs, sound pretty good. What I will have to figure out is how to offset the "she's too slow" argument for more sail area (esp up high) with the "she's too tippy" argument for less heeling force.
Learning to sail with a gaff is dead easy. Once you learn how high to peak it up, it's pretty much like sailing anything else.

I'm a two-halyard man myself, I like being able to adjust the peak tension for the wind.

Joe (SoCal)
10-22-2018, 02:56 PM
Thanks for that Ian - I'll keep it in mind when I talk to a sailmaker. Doubtless mmd can refer me to someone here in the Maritimes who's good at making vertically cut gaff sails for traditional small boats ... but if not, I'll ask the Forum's wisdom. I suspect that I'll try to limp through one season with just repairs and patches to the present tired suit, both to learn how to sail a gaffer myself and to get a bit of an inkling of what might better suit where I live. Though more area and a higher peak to the gaff, combined with a well considered set of reefs, sound pretty good. What I will have to figure out is how to offset the "she's too slow" argument for more sail area (esp up high) with the "she's too tippy" argument for less heeling force.

Where is Bradshaw when you need him ?

C. Ross
10-22-2018, 07:34 PM
Where is Bradshaw when you need him ?

Damn good question. PM him?

Ian McColgin
10-22-2018, 07:58 PM
Despite my preference for a highly peaked gaff and ever more sail area, this is a traditional shape of narrow boat and keeping the sail area low makes sense. But then, Capt Pete did have fun with more canvas as in the modification here:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/30/07/56/300756ca23695ba97e413b75f1c7979c.jpg

I think the gaff sloop makes far more general sense.

TomF
10-22-2018, 08:21 PM
I had once thought hard about a shallop. But what folks here have written over the years about loose footed sprit rigs kinda switched my thinking. Makes great sense for a fisherman needing a good central space to work, but maybe less sense for a pleasure sailor.

amish rob
10-22-2018, 09:21 PM
I had once thought hard about a shallop. But what folks here have written over the years about loose footed sprit rigs kinda switched my thinking. Makes great sense for a fisherman needing a good central space to work, but maybe less sense for a pleasure sailor.

Ghastly rig. Iíd never own a loose footed sprit sail.

Peace,
Wait... :)

johnw
10-22-2018, 11:37 PM
I had once thought hard about a shallop. But what folks here have written over the years about loose footed sprit rigs kinda switched my thinking. Makes great sense for a fisherman needing a good central space to work, but maybe less sense for a pleasure sailor.
I've sailed quite a lot with loose-footed sprit sails, and they work fine. I've also participated in threads where people seem to prefer the advice of people who haven't sailed with them.

adampet
10-23-2018, 05:41 AM
Previous owner sent this along for me to share. I chatted with him the other day. Said he got the boat in Maine as trade for a plastic boat, and the gent he got it from had bought it in N Y state. Still no further info on the builder He sent this picture of the boat sailing in Nauset Inlet.24981

TomF
10-23-2018, 06:18 AM
That is grand! Thanks Adam.

Harry Miller
10-23-2018, 12:03 PM
It's nice to see a project work out perfectly and with so many forum members involved. Going slow is a lot better than not going at all. You and your son will have a great time.

C. Ross
10-23-2018, 02:11 PM
Finestkind. I love this place.

goodbasil
10-23-2018, 05:07 PM
This thread shows us what Peter H. Specture used to call the "sense of community," of this forum.
I've never seen it on any forum like I've seen it here.

elf
10-27-2018, 10:03 PM
Judging by a post she made, she may have been in Vermont.
She was. Missed the whole thing. Just found out today.

What a nice little boat, Tom. I'm sorry not to meet you and your son, and I hope he never figures out how to put a trapeze on that sweet little sloop you've bought.

What a charmer!

TomF
10-28-2018, 07:28 AM
I am sorry we missed you, Emily. One hopes that another time presents.

elf
10-28-2018, 07:57 AM
I am sorry we missed you, Emily. One hopes that another time presents.
Thanks for the thought. After studying the map I see Fredericton is nearly due east of Houlton, ME (the end of Route I95). Last year I visited slightly to the south of that area, and actually spent a couple hours across the border poking about. It was interesting, but too far from the ocean for me to make a return trip.

I suspect Frederickton is as well.

Perhaps you might get to Mystic some year?

Todd Bradshaw
10-28-2018, 09:34 PM
What was the question........ :) I've been busy making a foundation for a yard barn because we have so much junk in the garage.


Playing with the peak angle is fine, and a higher peak is likely to have reduced twist and somewhat higher performance to weather, but you do need to understand that it will also usually move the CE forward a bit. I generally try to stay as close as possible to the designer's original CE placement, so it can become a case of designing several versions with varying proportions and checking them against the original plan to get a good one that isn't likely to screw up the balance. If one area or section is modified and you want to maintain the same balance, something may also need to be changed elsewhere to make up for it.


Most sailmakers have access to an easy to use approximation program that lets you estimate how much sail a given hull can carry in various winds.

In my case, I am not aware of the existence of such a resource. Considering the rather complex amount of data which would need to be considered in order to make good decisions and come up with a plan worth investing a fair amount of money, materials and labor in, I would be pretty conservative about changes to the sailplan. The original designer has a lot of information to base his sailplan decisions on which we don't have access to. Perhaps yacht designers have such a program, but I certainly don't and have never heard of one. You can certainly make some of the sail decisions by looking at the plan, or even eyeballing the boat - things like suggested draft amounts, draft placement or entry angles, but deciding how much sail area will stand up well to specific wind ranges without the input of a whole lot of information about the hull as well is not likey to spit out anything very accurate.

Oceanus is a nice thought, but even the lightest weights of Oceanus or Clipper Canvas are way too heavy to perform well on a boat that small. If you are looking for good boat speed especially if you will be doing any light-ish air sailing, they would be a big and very expensive mistake.

Paul Pless
05-17-2019, 08:31 AM
when will you be launching her tom?

TomF
05-17-2019, 08:46 AM
Poking around on some maintenance on her; things got delayed when somehow I got roped into making some wainscoting for the house and a subwoofer enclosure for the truck rather than building a centerboard case over the winter, for instance. And it's just now turning into painting season outdoors here in chilly New Brunswick. So all in all likely not launching 'till June. Currently mulling over whether to replace the degraded ply centerboard case with ply and goop, or to replace the only bit of ply in an otherwise solid wood boat with a traditionally built case. And in either event, what paint and sealing approach to take in this post Red Lead and post alkyd paint era. It looks to me like the interior of the boat is still wearing alkyd paint, but the topsides and bottom (which are in rougher shape) might instead be latex. Spars look OK, if in need of sanding and varnish.

TomF
05-17-2019, 08:51 AM
I've lately reviewed Bob Smalser's long ago saga about restoring a gunning dory (prompting ideas and despair :D), which he'd posted in B&R here but later collected into a set of nested articles. https://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=smalser&file=articles_614.shtml That's much the approach I'd aspire to, of course substituting my butchery for his craftsmanship and making do with the paints I can actually get my hands on.

Keith Wilson
05-17-2019, 08:54 AM
a subwoofer enclosure for the truck . . . Um . . . really? A subwoofer for the truck? You're one of those guys who pulls up next to me at a stoplight and makes the entire earth vibrate? . . . Or (God help us all) does he do it with opera?!? That doesn't bear contemplating.

:D

TomF
05-17-2019, 09:27 AM
Um . . . really? A subwoofer for the truck? You're one of those guys who pulls up next to me at a stoplight and makes the entire earth vibrate? . . . Or (God help us all) does he do it with opera?!? That doesn't bear contemplating. :Dhttp://ampslab.com/blog/2018/12/25/toucan/ Doncha figure the Ride of the Valkyries would be stirring, coming from a little old blue truck? (Actually, might need to rethink the paint job for Wagner :D - flying horses, flames, skulls) We picked up a Kenwood radio with not only a Garmin GPS but a subwoofer output essentially for free from a junked car to replace the ailing 2001 Ford original; it seemed rational at the time to present the lad with a pair of little 8" subwoofer drivers for Christmas. One for the truck, and one for in-the-house use. In my defence I intentionally got subwoofer drivers only rated for about 80 watts RMS, so your windows probably will only be moving in/out about a sixteenth of an inch. :D

amish rob
05-17-2019, 09:30 AM
http://ampslab.com/blog/2018/12/25/toucan/ Doncha figure the Ride of the Valkyries would be stirring, coming from a little old blue truck? (Actually, might need to rethink the paint job for Wagner :D - flying horses, flames, skulls) We picked up a Kenwood radio with not only a Garmin GPS but a subwoofer output essentially for free from a junked car to replace the ailing 2001 Ford original; it seemed rational at the time to present the lad with a pair of little 8" subwoofer drivers for Christmas. One for the truck, and one for in-the-house use. In my defence I intentionally got subwoofer drivers only rated for about 80 watts RMS, so your windows probably will only be moving in/out about a sixteenth of an inch. :D
Put them face to face, wired out of phase...

Just saying.

Peace,
Boom Chick

Also, splined or t and g through bolted case sides. Thatís my vote.

TomF
05-17-2019, 09:39 AM
I'm leaning towards that centerboard case option too, Rob.

amish rob
05-17-2019, 09:43 AM
And, Iíd set the pin in vee shaped rebates in the inner case sides that the pin slips into, so thereís no hole through the case.

I saw it on a Vivier design, and Iíve wanted to steal it ever since. :)

Peace,
Robert