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Donn
09-25-2018, 10:39 PM
Where does all this knowledge go when we pass on?

Keith Wilson
09-25-2018, 10:50 PM
Same place the data goes when you wipe a hard drive, or the novel goes when the pages of the book rot away. There was a complicated pattern of something - electrons, or chemicals in nerve cells, or ink on pages - and then, after a while, there isn't. Pass it on while you can.

moTthediesel
09-25-2018, 10:54 PM
Same place the data goes when you wipe a hard drive, or the novel goes when the pages of the book rot away. There was a complicated pattern of something - electrons, or chemicals in nerve cells, or ink on pages - and then, after a while, there isn't.

That’s entropy for you....

LeeG
09-25-2018, 11:10 PM
Where does all this knowledge go when we pass on?

Before you die it degrades as cognitive function declines. What were strong and firmly held thoughts begin to loosen and drift. Names detach from meaning. It evaporates. The thinker dies and so do the thoughts.

Art Haberland
09-26-2018, 12:29 AM
Sometimes I wonder. At the rate at which we are learning and growing as a people, is it possible for knowledge to be handed from generation to generation not through teaching, but through some form of inherited memory or more directly thought reincarnation? As a Buddhist, I do not find the idea that off the wall and it is somewhat comforting that maybe not everything was in vain.

LeeG
09-26-2018, 12:33 AM
Sometimes I wonder. At the rate at which we are learning and growing as a people, is it possible for knowledge to be handed from generation to generation not through teaching, but through some form of inherited memory or more directly thought reincarnation? As a Buddhist, I do not find the idea that off the wall and it is somewhat comforting that maybe not everything was in vain.

Why should dying make life in vain? Dying is what happens after living.

skuthorp
09-26-2018, 01:12 AM
Why indeed when there's cyberspace……………….
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/magazine/09Immortality-t.html

We even have our own 'immortal' on the forum, Stevebaby
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?172619-Oz-Politics
all 642 pages of it………...

Keith Wilson
09-26-2018, 07:53 AM
. . . is it possible for knowledge to be handed from generation to generation not through teaching, but through some form of inherited memory or more directly thought reincarnation?I don't know about reincarnation, but most other species use the inheritance method. We tend to call it 'instinct', but that oversimplifies. It's very slow, and acquired knowledge and skills aren't inherited. One major reason we've overrun the planet is that we're really good at leaning new things and passing them on to the next generation; far, far better than any other species.

But none of it's in vain (or all of it is, looking at it from the other side). We're here now. That's enough, most days.

Paul Pless
09-26-2018, 07:57 AM
mid life crisis eh donn?

amish rob
09-26-2018, 07:58 AM
Into the matrix.

Peace,
Robert

CWSmith
09-26-2018, 08:05 AM
Where does all this knowledge go when we pass on?

It makes the worms smarter.

Isn't the basic truth of life that society only survives because we pass along our knowledge to the next generation? Isn't that what the old farts are suppose to do?

LeeG
09-26-2018, 08:07 AM
Why indeed when there's cyberspace……………….
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/magazine/09Immortality-t.html

We even have our own 'immortal' on the forum, Stevebaby
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?172619-Oz-Politics
all 642 pages of it………...

That NYT article is disturbing. I wish the tv series Caprica lasted longer.

Jim Mahan
09-26-2018, 08:18 AM
A major and distinguishing part of humanity is abstract, intangible and innate. A key difference between a man of a hundred thousand years ago and one today, is the whole set of ideas we all commonly own, now compared to then.

An idea is the one thing you can keep when you give it away. It isn't dimished by sharing, and it can't be taken from you. We'll always have Paris, even if we are just mammals. And thanks for the mammaries. It's been a hoot. It's been a pair of hoots.

sharpiefan
09-26-2018, 08:27 AM
Sometimes I wonder. At the rate at which we are learning and growing as a people, is it possible for knowledge to be handed from generation to generation not through teaching, but through some form of inherited memory or more directly thought reincarnation? As a Buddhist, I do not find the idea that off the wall and it is somewhat comforting that maybe not everything was in vain.



There is no Frigate like a Book
To take us Lands away,
Nor any Coursers like a Page
Of prancing Poetry
This Traverse may the poorest take
Without oppress of Toll
How frugal is the Chariot
That bears a Human soul.

--- Emily Dickinson


https://www.sunnyskyz.com/uploads/2013/11/0z6lz-carl-sagan-quote-on-books.jpg



No wonder that Alexander carried the Iliad with him on his expeditions in a precious casket. A written word is the choicest of relics. It is something at once more intimate with us and more universal than any other work of art. It is the work of art nearest to life itself. It may be translated into every language, and not only be read but actually breathed from all human lips;--not be represented on canvas or in marble only, but be carved out of the breath of life itself. The symbol of an ancient man's thought becomes a modern man's speech.

--- Henry David Thoreau, Walden

David G
09-26-2018, 08:31 AM
Well... SOME of us do.

Some of us, otoh, resist...

Dan McCosh
09-26-2018, 08:31 AM
Where does all this knowledge go when we pass on? Depends on whether you wrote it down.

Norman Bernstein
09-26-2018, 08:39 AM
Where does all this knowledge go when we pass on?

Some of it becomes part of what is called 'institutional memory', namely, the experiences of those who pass on, are transferred to the generations that follow.

TomF
09-26-2018, 09:50 AM
As you know, I reject the secular belief system which says that thinking is or consciousness is purely a product of activity within the brain. Instead, I believe that we are "spiritual beings have a material experience." That we inhabit our bodies, rather than are our bodies. So who we are and what we've learned is retained when our bodies die, because the essential reality of any of us doesn't die with the body.

Dan McCosh
09-26-2018, 09:55 AM
Oddly, a recent movie called "Nostalgia" is about this subject. It's pretty good, and among the twists is what happens when a teenager dies who left all most of her reminisces on her devices, and no one had the password. It's a good movie.

LeeG
09-26-2018, 10:05 AM
As you know, I reject the secular belief system which says that thinking is or consciousness is purely a product of activity within the brain. Instead, I believe that we are "spiritual beings have a material experience." That we inhabit our bodies, rather than are our bodies. So who we are and what we've learned is retained when our bodies die, because the essential reality of any of us doesn't die with the body.

so do spiritual beings have the same sense of self that you and I do? Was there a Tom F existing 5 billion years ago popping in and out of material existence here and there throughout the universe each time saying “it’s me, Tom F again”. Or is there a vast reservoir of spiritual goo that gets plopped into a born person that becomes an aware individual and at the end of life this egoless spirit goes back to the pond?

TomF
09-26-2018, 10:10 AM
I dunno 100%. But if tens of millions of near death experience stories from across all cultures and religious systems are to be given any credibility, it seems like individuality remains. That it isn't simply a random few CCs of spiritual goo drawn into a syringe and injected into a scrap of matter, to be drained into the primordial cauldron after.

Osborne Russell
09-26-2018, 10:41 AM
As you know, I reject the secular belief system which says that thinking is or consciousness is purely a product of activity within the brain. Instead, I believe that we are "spiritual beings have a material experience." That we inhabit our bodies, rather than are our bodies. So who we are and what we've learned is retained when our bodies die, because the essential reality of any of us doesn't die with the body.

The secular belief system can accommodate the proposition that the whole is more than the sum of the parts. What is the more? Maybe we'll find out, if we keep looking. Find out something anyway. Meanwhile, no need to take positions you have no evidence for. Can't find the evidence if you don't look.

Osborne Russell
09-26-2018, 10:44 AM
This is what I would like to know: a cow puts its hoof in one of those for-real cattle guards. After that, she avoids it. Somebody invents painted cattle guards. She avoids them, too.

OK but why does each succeeding generation avoid painted cattle guards?

Keith Wilson
09-26-2018, 11:19 AM
But if tens of millions of near death experience stories from across all cultures and religious systems are to be given any credibility . . . I give them credibility, but I'd bet it tells us far more about how the brain behaves when it's shutting down, or doesn't have enough oxygen, or something like that, than it does about whether our consciousness is something separate from the activity of a physical body. I could be wrong.

amish rob
09-26-2018, 11:40 AM
Physics would seem to demand whatever electrical spark it is that animates us must remain. Somewhere. In some form.

Energy blah blah, and all that jazz. :)

Peace,
Robert

Keith Wilson
09-26-2018, 11:55 AM
Physics would seem to demand whatever electrical spark it is that animates us must remain. Somewhere. In some form. Sure. Every atom of the ink and paper in a book remains once the book has rotted into dust. Every air molecule and every bit of energy that vibrated to the music remains when the song is over, even when it's been long forgotten by everyone now living. Our consciousness sure does appear to be something that our brain does (unless Tom is right). After a while, it doesn't do it anymore. All of the matter, all of the energy, all that still remains, just arranged in different patterns.

amish rob
09-26-2018, 12:02 PM
Sure. Every atom of the ink and paper in a book remains once the book has rotted into dust. Every air molecule and every bit of energy that vibrated to the music remains when the song is over, even when it's been long forgotten by everyone now living. Our consciousness sure does appear to be something that our brain does (unless Tom is right). After a while, it doesn't do it anymore. All of the matter, all of the energy, all that still remains, just arranged in different patterns.


Werd.

Tao. :)

Peace,
Robert

TomF
09-26-2018, 12:14 PM
I guess we will each find out eventually. (Or not :D)

Jim Mahan
09-26-2018, 12:31 PM
You and I and God and all of history for all of time, are all ideas, including all of our own collective idea of the wide expanse of space-time, all in the same Human Mind.

None of our instance in space time, our human thing, our Earth thing, could be at all, without humans, and all of them, and everything nearby. Still, in the objective space-time reality, everything, everywhere, is something other than us and here, and as humans, we will never know any of it directly. By any measure but our own, We Earth Humans of Now are nothing, and nowhere. In the abstract realm of Eternity, spirit is non-temporal and non spatial.

Are there any ideas other than Human. So far? That we know anything about? Other than Republicans and trmpsporters?

sharpiefan
09-26-2018, 12:33 PM
Through the travail of ages,
midst the pomp and toils of war,
have I fought and strove and perished,
countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly,
the age old strife I see,
when I fought in many guises and many names,
but always me.'"


Gen. George Patton

SKIP KILPATRICK
09-26-2018, 01:37 PM
Sheldon Cooper has the solution.

http://www.hizook.com/files/users/3/Texai_Robot_BigBangTheory_6.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwijmarRp9ndAhVPn-AKHVqIDc8QjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hizook.com%2Fblog%2F2010%2F09 %2F30%2Fwillow-garages-texai-telepresence-robot-makes-cameo-appearance-big-bang-theory&psig=AOvVaw1d0VJ0_aCItNv91X5fu_IC&ust=1538073272586608)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bIoeBpSeU4

downthecreek
09-26-2018, 02:33 PM
I guess we will each find out eventually. (Or not :D)

It's so unfair!

If I'm wrong, maybe I will find out. If you're wrong you never will......;)

TomF
09-26-2018, 03:43 PM
It's so unfair! If I'm wrong, maybe I will find out. If you're wrong you never will......;)Yep. :D I hope I live well enough that I don't have any compulsion to say "I told you so" on the other side, but instead just settle in for a great beer and a nice sail. :D If we do meet up on the other side, I'll buy the first round.

Keith Wilson
09-26-2018, 04:01 PM
What?? You mean 'In heaven there is no beer" is wrong?? :D

TomF
09-26-2018, 04:04 PM
If there isn't beer in heaven, I'm not going.

leikec
09-26-2018, 04:12 PM
I firmly believe that we never die. What we call dying is really shedding...before we move to the next layer of space-time, and a whole lot of smart science people think it might be what happens.

I’m not really willing to do the suicide eexperiment to find out, so right at the moment it remains as untestable as my theory that a ripe tomato could play a grand piano—if we could just find the proper motivation to get it started...

Jeff C

TomF
09-26-2018, 04:29 PM
Turnips maybe. Or Kale. Kale can do anything. But at tomato?

Keith Wilson
09-26-2018, 04:32 PM
Well . . . I don't think I'll buy tickets to the concert, thank you.

leikec
09-26-2018, 04:46 PM
Well . . . I don't think I'll buy tickets to the concert, thank you.

I never said it wouldn’t make a mistake or two...a potato is much better at keeping an eye on that sort of thing...

Jeff C

sharpiefan
09-26-2018, 07:36 PM
If there isn't beer in heaven, I'm not going.

Fiddler's Green
Author: John Connolly
Copyright: World, March Music Ltd

As I went by the dockside one evening so fair
To view the still water and take the salt air
I heard an old fisherman singing this song
Won't you take me away boys my time is not long

CHORUS
Wrap me up in me oilskin and jumper
No more on the docks I'll be seen
Just tell me old shipmates
I'm taking a trip, mates
And I'll see you one day in Fiddler's Green

Now Fiddler's Green is a place I've heard tell
Where fishermen go when they don't go to Hell
Where the skies are all clear and the dolphins do play
And the cold coast of Greenland is far, far away

Where there's always a breeze and there's never a gale
And the fish jump on board with a swish in their tail
and you lie at your leisure, there's nothing to do
And the captain's below making tea for the crew

when you get to the dock and the long trip is through
There's pubs and there's clubs, and there's lassies there too
and the girls are all pretty and the beer it is free
And there's bottles of rum growing from every tree

I don't need a harp or a halo, not me
Just give me a breeze and a stiff rolling sea
And I'll play me old squeeze box as we roll along
When the wind in the rigging will sing me this song


https://youtube.com/watch?v=cBp1uiGHu-M

LeeG
09-26-2018, 07:49 PM
If there isn't beer in heaven, I'm not going.

and what about all those different kinds of mustards and olives?