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webishop14
09-24-2018, 02:54 PM
A new book by an academic analyst concludes that it is quite likely Trump would not have won the election had it not been for the Russian disinformation campaign. The book is reviewed in the New Yorker magazine.

Read the New Yorker article here. (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/01/how-russia-helped-to-swing-the-election-for-trump?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark)

While the author, Kathleen Hall Jamieson, states that we can't know for certainty, we regularly execute criminals on less evidence that what Trump supporters demand for "proof" of Russian interference. In one of the concluding paragraphs in the review, the reviewer cites an Oxford professor:


Philip Howard, the Oxford professor, believes that Facebook possesses this data, down to the location of a user’s computer, and that such information could conceivably reveal whether an undecided voter was swayed after viewing certain content. He also thinks that, if there was any collusion between the St. Petersburg trolls and the Trump campaign, Facebook’s internal data could document it, by revealing co÷rdination on political posts. But, he says, Facebook has so far resisted divulging such data to researchers, claiming that doing so would be a breach of its user agreement.

What distresses me is that this quote and the general tone of the review suggests that Jamieson (and Howard, obviously) has not taken into account that Jared Kushner was quite proud of the fact that he was instrumental in getting Cambridge Analytica involved in the campaign -- and that Cambridge Analytica WAS in possession of Facebook's voter profile data, including ISP addresses, everything the Russians needed to micro-target their disinformation campaign. For Facebook to resist opening this data to forensic analysis smacks of complicity after the fact.

John Smith
09-24-2018, 03:04 PM
I think a huge question every American has to consider is how certain/likely/possible is it that illegal activity elected Trump?

And what do we, as a country, do if we are convinced it definitely/probably/possibly DID DETERMINE THE OUTCOME?

I can't find anything in our constitution other than removing the president. If, however, it is determined to be PROBABLE that without illegal Russian involvement, and/or other illegal activity, Trump would not be president, then what?

It seems inadequate to simply remove him, and I suppose Pence, but leave in place all his appointed/confirmed people.

Rich Jones
09-24-2018, 03:14 PM
Yep. If it was proved, everything Trump did/signed would have to be reversed. That includes both his justices being removed from the Supreme Court.

LeeG
09-24-2018, 03:46 PM
nope, the GOP has to care and if they don’t nothing happens except through elections.

skuthorp
09-24-2018, 03:51 PM
Even if there was absolute evidence of such interference, would the fabric of the US's Federal political state survive? I note that Rosenstein is under pressure to resign/be fired/ and missed Donald as he wasn't home when he visited. There is a coup in the offing, and it's Trump that is promulgating it.

Durnik
09-24-2018, 04:27 PM
smacks of complicity after the fact.

they were complicit before the fact - I'd bet.

webishop14
09-24-2018, 04:36 PM
In terms of their disinformation campaign, I don't think that Russia committed any crimes. As for channeling "dark" money through the NRA, that would be a criminal consipiracy involving the NRA. Arranging for Russian hackers to receive Cambridge Analytica's improperly acquired voter profiles would involve the Trump campaign in a criminal conspiracy. Sadly, there's nothing in the Constitution that specifies how to deal with a fraudulently elected president. Our Electoral College is supposed to weed out such flukes. Inasmuch as the Electoral College has failed in its Constitutional duties, I think a strong case can now be made to dissolve that bit of fiction.

webishop14
09-24-2018, 04:38 PM
they were complicit before the fact - I'd bet.

I don't believe Facebook was complicit before the fact. From what I have read, Cambridge Analytica obtained Facebook's voter data through it's researcher's violation of Facebook's terms of use, specifically in regards to user privacy.

LeeG
09-24-2018, 04:45 PM
In terms of their disinformation campaign, I don't think that Russia committed any crimes. As for channeling "dark" money through the NRA, that would be a criminal consipiracy involving the NRA. Arranging for Russian hackers to receive Cambridge Analytica's improperly acquired voter profiles would involve the Trump campaign in a criminal conspiracy. Sadly, there's nothing in the Constitution that specifies how to deal with a fraudulently elected president. Our Electoral College is supposed to weed out such flukes. Inasmuch as the Electoral College has failed in its Constitutional duties, I think a strong case can now be made to dissolve that bit of fiction.

ditto, this is a different century with instantaneous communication and a mobile citizenry.


https://theconversation.com/whose-votes-count-the-least-in-the-electoral-college-74280

The way the Electoral College rewires American presidential elections in comparison to a simple popular vote is clearly complex. The Electoral College does add extra weight to votes cast in the least populated states. But the way this system treats voters in the remaining states is not well-understood. In states with seven or more electoral votes, it tends to weigh votes based on that state’s voter turnout, rather than its number of electoral votes.

Whatever one’s political affiliation, it is hard to be enthusiastic about a system that penalizes voters in high-turnout states.

johnw
09-24-2018, 04:49 PM
Yep. If it was proved, everything Trump did/signed would have to be reversed. That includes both his justices being removed from the Supreme Court.
You wish. There's no provision for any of that in the constitution.

I know, I know, sarcasm emoji needed.