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Paul Pless
09-04-2018, 08:56 AM
How long till Trump weighs in via Twitter?

Good on Nike btw

Joe (SoCal)
09-04-2018, 08:59 AM
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40685591_10214565442983258_4077090116244340736_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeGEfhRFTCsJuGsG4Iq3R5pUF2sUElTE-gAyNcY3u4mpeVtxvj8_HP7RU2Z3uAlalrbQXvLn0_dfnr2iW6Q AnjUZmoBrUG3jaNYf3mKeGvIRow&oh=74c093a0ac171c5ab577e249970d6529&oe=5C2FF72C

ccmanuals
09-04-2018, 09:00 AM
They knew there would be manufactured outrage over this and "did it anyway."

Yep, good on them

Canoez
09-04-2018, 09:06 AM
I think I need a new pair of sneakers.

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 09:15 AM
'There's no such thing as bad publicity'

Source: often associated with Phineas T. Barnum, the 19th century American showman and circus owner.


Yes totally agree that Nike knew there would be 'outrage' over this, but strongly suspect that it was done with the aim to significantly increase their bottom line.
Nike seized the moment and acted like capitalists.

Would they have 'sacrificed everything' to do it (advertisement per their ad in Post #2)? I doubt it. It was a marketing decision.

The question is would Nike have done it if it would seriously and significantly decrease their bottom line?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-04-2018, 09:20 AM
http://www.heartmurmur.biz/wp-content/uploads/pin-by-hank-on-goddesses-pinterest-nike-the-goddess-of-victory-in-greek-mythology.jpg

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 09:26 AM
Yes totally agree that Nike knew there would be 'outrage' over this, but strongly suspect that it was done with the aim to significantly increase their bottom line.
Nike seized the moment and acted like capitalists.

Nobody would deny that corporations are loyal, first and foremost, to their bottom line. But you might try thinking with a bit more subtlety about this move.... would Nike do this, if they didn't think that there was a constituency whose sentiments are in line with Kapernick's stand? Would they alientate their customer base intentionally.... or does this move appeal to their customer base?


Would they have 'sacrificed everything' to do it (advertisement per their ad in Post #2)? I doubt it. It was a marketing decision.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.... Nike themselves aren't 'sacrificing' a single thing.


The question is would Nike have done it if it would seriously and significantly decrease their bottom line?

Of COURSE not... but the fact that they made this move demonstrates that they believe that Kapenick's bravery and sacrifice, resonates with Nike's customer base.

Your criticism of Nike for doing this is inappropriate... unless you'd criticize every other corporation for doing what THEY believed was in their best interests.

wizbang 13
09-04-2018, 09:28 AM
Let the Flaggots heads explode.

David G
09-04-2018, 09:35 AM
Of course they knew it would be controversial. There are a LOT of loudmouth RWW sorts out there willing to jump up and down over silly chit.

But they also are smart enough to know that most folks are also smart enough to recognize the faux outrage... misplaced outrage... nontroversy for what it is. What... you don't think they looked at the polling to see if their adopting of this particular ballplayer would be bad for their brand?

This will actually help redeem their brand - after a long stretch of sweatshop-related labor issues, and some #MeToo issues, and some 'boy's club' issues, and some lesser management kerfuffles that mostly stock market analysts care about.

Jim Mahan
09-04-2018, 09:42 AM
So why crop the afro?

John of Phoenix
09-04-2018, 09:42 AM
First they destroyed their Keurig covfefe makers, now their shoes... and socks and jerseys and hats and etc.

Just because they hate free speech.

Sweet Mother of God reds are Stupid.

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 09:45 AM
Nobody would deny that corporations are loyal, first and foremost, to their bottom line. Right.


But you might try thinking with a bit more subtlety about this move.... would Nike do this, if they didn't think that there was a constituency whose sentiments are in line with Kapernick's stand? Would they alientate their customer base intentionally.... or does this move appeal to their customer base? Marketing move to appeal to that base with direct intention to increase Nike's bottom line, profits and bonuses.


][/SIZE]Of COURSE not... but the fact that they made this move demonstrates that they believe that Kapenick's bravery and sacrifice, resonates with Nike's customer base. Rubbish it was a capitalistic marketing move. Did they support the anti -'illegal immigrant child separation', there was a sugnificant move there and a very humanitarian issue. Did they? No, because it would not benefit their bottom line.

Their action is not really the 'humanitarian' support but done to benefit their own agenda.


Your criticism of Nike for doing this is inappropriate... unless you'd criticize every other corporation for doing what THEY believed was in their best interests. I am not criticizing Nike for doing so. I am pointing out what they did and the reasons why they did it. Why do you appear to object to that?

It was done for their (Nike's) own best interests, not for Colin Kapernick or the reason why he 'took a knee', but for their profits etc.

I am stating that ALL corporations do what THEY believe is in the best interests for their company's growth, bottom line, profits, dividends and bonuses.

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 09:48 AM
Oh oh.

They will bounce back.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/04/nike-shares-tumble-after-company-reveals-new-ad-campaign-featuring-colin-kaepernick.html

Nike shares fall as backlash erupts over new ad campaign featuring Colin Kaepernick

Nike shares are falling Tuesday morning after the company revealed a new ad campaign featuring Colin Kaepernick.
The news of Kaepernick, who in 2016 decided not to stand for the national anthem to protest racial injustice, becoming the face of Nike marketing sparked some backlash from consumers on social media.
#NikeBoycott was trending on Twitter, with some people saying they were going to burn their Nike sneakers.




Lauren Thomas (https://www.cnbc.com/lauren-thomas/) | @laurenthomasx3 (https://twitter.com/laurenthomasx3)
Published 39 Mins Ago Updated 13 Mins AgoCNBC.com

Jim Bow
09-04-2018, 09:48 AM
Nike also stuck with Tiger Woods through thick and thin.
Lance Armstrong, an out and out liar, was dropped like a hot derailleur.

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 09:51 AM
Marketing move to appeal to that base with direct intention to increase Nike's bottom line, profits and bonuses.

Nobody is arguing against that idea.... and I admitted so, myself.


Rubbish it was a capitalistic marketing move. Did they support the anti -'illegal immigrant child separation', there was a sugnificant move there and a very humanitarian issue. Did they? No, because it would not benefit their bottom line.

You're saying the same thing, over and over again. To repeat: yes, they did it because the thought it would be to their commercial advantage.


Their action is not really the 'humanitarian' support but done to benefit their own agenda.

WHO said it had ANYTHING to do with 'humanitarian support'? You apprently invented that idea for yourself.


I am not criticizing Nike for doing so. I am pointing out what they did and the reasons why they did it. Why do you appear to object to that?

Object? Where did I object?


It was done for their (Nike's) own best interests, not for Colin Kapernick or the reason why he 'took a knee', but for their profits etc.

Now you're repeating yourself.


I am stating that ALL corporations do what THEY believe is in the best interests for their company's growth, bottom line, profits, dividends and bonuses.

No kidding.

Too bad you completely missed the key message of what they did: namely, the recognition that their customer base (in their considered opinion) are FAVORABLE to Colin Kapernick's protestations.... THAT is the key point. The fact that Kapernick's actions are viewed positively is the real revelation here... NOT the fact that Nike is exploiting that opinion. Your attempt to divert attention FROM this key point is pretty obvious.

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 09:51 AM
Nike also stuck with Tiger Woods through thick and thin.
Lance Armstrong, an out and out liar, was dropped like a hot derailleur.

You mention what Lance Armstrong was "an out and out liar'. What was Tiger Woods?

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 09:57 AM
To repeat: yes, they did it because the thought it would be to their commercial advantage.. Which is what I said in my post and for which you took me to task. :ycool:

John of Phoenix
09-04-2018, 09:58 AM
Too bad you completely missed the key message of what they did: namely, the recognition that their customer base (in their considered opinion) are FAVORABLE to Colin Kapernick's protestations.... THAT is the key point. The fact that Kapernick's actions are viewed positively is the real revelation here... NOT the fact that Nike is exploiting that opinion. Your attempt to divert attention FROM this key point is pretty obvious.Just take a knee.

David G
09-04-2018, 09:59 AM
The dingbattery is deep in this thread. Wear your waders...

Chris Coose
09-04-2018, 10:00 AM
I care more about this guy being able to capitalize on this than how Nike gets along. Not a godamned thing matters from now until November 6 and it looks like the rock rolling down the hill is finally turning into a landslide. Never vote Republican. Never.

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 10:05 AM
Which is what I said in my post and for which you took me to task.

I 'took you to task' because you expressed a particularly irrelevant point, about Nike looking to take commercial advantage with Kapernick. NOBODY disagreed with you, and I certainly didn't.... yet you kept trying to imply that there was something nefarious or disingenuous about it....

...all the while missing the only IMPORTANT part of the topic: the fact that Nike was betting that Kapernick is getting broad enough support, to appeal to the Nike customer base.

And finally, 'taking you to task' is criticism... not personal disparagement. I think I am compelled to state this, because you've demonstrated that you don't understand the difference.

Puttputt
09-04-2018, 10:15 AM
Oh oh.

They will bounce back.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/04/nike-shares-tumble-after-company-reveals-new-ad-campaign-featuring-colin-kaepernick.html

nike stock is up 47% from this time last year. I suspect it will continue to rise. Those shoes being burned today will have to be replaced.

David G
09-04-2018, 10:29 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/dc6fc3d1-1926-3146-8f71-5c763c470de7/nike-falls-as-critics-fume-on.html

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 10:30 AM
I 'took you to task' because you expressed a particularly irrelevant point, about Nike looking to take commercial advantage with Kapernick. NOBODY disagreed with you, and I certainly didn't.... yet you kept trying to imply that there was something nefarious or disingenuous about it....

...all the while missing the only IMPORTANT part of the topic: the fact that Nike was betting that Kapernick is getting broad enough support, to appeal to the Nike customer base.

And finally, 'taking you to task' is criticism... not personal disparagement. I think I am compelled to state this, because you've demonstrated that you don't understand the difference.


Read Post # 5.

The fact that Nike looking to take commercial advantage with Kapernick is actually a particularly relevant point.
Done to increase their bottom line and not for direct support of Kapernick and his stance.
If they were sincere about Kapernick and his stance they would have supported him and it long ago, e.g. when he first did it.
Just pointing out how disingenuous and insincere they are about it. No more no less.


NOBODY disagreed with you, and I certainly didn't.LOL.

So, since you agree with me/my post, why the negative 'criticism' about my post? :rolleyes:

Figment
09-04-2018, 10:41 AM
First they destroyed their Keurig covfefe makers, now their shoes... and socks and jerseys and hats and etc.



Don't forget the Yeti coolers!

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 10:45 AM
The fact that Nike looking to take commercial advantage with Kapernick is actually a particularly relevant point.
Done to increase their bottom line and not for direct support of Kapernick and his stance.

LOL!

You keep saying this, as if it had any significance. NOBODY disagrees that Nike is doing it for commercial purposes.

So WHAT? What does it matter?

Say it a few more times... it will continue to be as irrelevant as it was before.


If they were sincere about Kapernick and his stance they would have supported him and it long ago, e.g. when he first did it.
Just pointing out how disingenuous and insincere they are about it. No more no less.

Well, there's your problem: trying to associate the word 'sincerity' with a corporation.

Corporations aren't people. They don't have souls. The word 'sincerity' doesn't apply. Corporation have only one objective, one goal, one ethos: the making of money. The ONLY time a corporation behaves in a manner which would SEEM to be representing a human value, is when it becomes a public relations advantage.

Trying to criticize a corporation for failing to be human is laughable.

Now, criticizing Kapernick is entirely fair. He IS a human, and you can disagree with his actions, or agree with them. Nike apparently believes that their customer base thinks Kapernick is a brave individual, standing up for human rights. Are they right? I don't know, but corporations don't do stuff like this without carefully considering it first.

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 10:58 AM
Corporations aren't people.

Maybe not physical people, but the SCOTUS appears to endow them with 'personhood'.

Ever since Citizens United, the Supreme Court’s 2010 decision allowing unlimited corporate and union spending on political issues, Americans have been debating whether, as Mitt Romney said, “Corporations are people, my friend.” Occupy Wall Street protestors decried the idea, late night comedians mocked it, and reform groups proposed amending the Constitution to eliminate it. Today, however, the Supreme Court endorsed corporate personhood. — holding that business firms have rights to religious freedom under federal law. Not only do corporations have rights, their rights are stronger than yours. The question came to the Supreme Court in a challenge to regulations implementing President Obama’s landmark health care law. Those regulations require employers with 50 or more employees to provide those employees with comprehensive health insurance, which must include certain forms of contraception. The contraception requirement was designed to protect the rights of women. Studies show (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/social-economic-benefits.pdf) that access to contraception has positive benefits for women’s education, income, mental health, and family stability.
Protecting women’s rights, according to the Court (http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-354_olp1.pdf), isn’t a good enough reason for the government to force a business corporation, at least a privately held one like chain craft store Hobby Lobby, to include birth control in its insurance contrary to the business owner’s wishes. At least that’s what the Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision, held in Hobby Lobby. Federal statutes guaranteeing religious freedom to “persons” apply equally to closely held business corporations, and those corporations’ religious liberty is “substantially burdened” by having to provide their employees with contraception. So the rights of employees have to give way to the rights of the corporation.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/corporations-are-people-a_b_5543833.html


Trying to criticize a corporation for failing to be human is laughable. It would be. However I'm not doing that, just pointing out then reasons why they did what they did.


Now, criticizing Kapernick is entirely fair. He IS a human, and you can disagree with his actions, or agree with them. Nike apparently believes that their customer base thinks Kapernick is a brave individual, standing up for human rights. Are they right? I don't know, but corporations don't do stuff like this without carefully considering it first. I am leaving Mr Kapernick out of it.
Nike did what they did. I gave my observations on why they did it. You agreed with me. You pointed out that nobody disagreed with me. What is your problem? :confused:

Nike's shares dropped in the short term, but will probably recover in the long term . . . capitalism at work. :D

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 11:03 AM
Maybe not physical people, but the SCOTUS appears to endow them with 'personhood'.

I'm not a lawyer, but it appears that you're even less familiar with the concept you speak of, than I am. The 'personhood' of a corporation is something called, by lawyers, a 'legal fiction'.... intended to help apply the laws to corporations, in some cases... but not all.

What I said about corporations NOT being people is still true.... trying to judge corporations by the same standards as human beings is a fool's errand.

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 11:09 AM
Kaepernick has been under contract with Nike since 2011. Since they didn't end the contract when controversy arose it's reasonable to guess that they have some sympathy with his views, as well as appreciating his commercial value.

My guess: it's far more the latter (commercial value), than the former (sympathy for his views).

Why would anyone expect a corporation to do differently?

David G
09-04-2018, 11:16 AM
A careful look at the very real impact of protests against this ad. Whatever your beliefs... you gotta appreciate the serious commitment from folks like #mustard --

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/people-already-burning-nikes-response-143300306.html

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 11:20 AM
I'm not a lawyer, but it appears that you're even less familiar with the concept you speak of, than I am. The 'personhood' of a corporation is something called, by lawyers, a 'legal fiction'.... intended to help apply the laws to corporations, in some cases... but not all.

What I said about corporations NOT being people is still true.... trying to judge corporations by the same standards as human beings is a fool's errand.

I'm not a lawyer, and have no input in it. You will have to go and argue 'corporate personhood' is a 'legal fiction'(LOL) with the US Supreme Court .

I repeat once again that I am not trying to judge corporations by the same standards as human beings.

I pointed out Nike's reasons for doing what they did, and which you agreed, but then you hopped on your high horse and tried to 'get' at me. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Rum_Pirate
09-04-2018, 11:25 AM
A careful look at the very real impact of protests against this ad. Whatever your beliefs... you gotta appreciate the serious commitment from folks like #mustard --

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/people-already-burning-nikes-response-143300306.html
People that burn/destroy their 'Nike' products' are foolish.

Nike have already got their money from them.

Nike would probably welcome many more to buy products and destroy them.
Adds to Nike's sales revenue.
Provides additional publicity, which will likely result in adding to Nike's sales.
A win-win for marketing dept all round, probably bigger bonuses too. (except for the intermediary minor drop in shoe price).

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 11:35 AM
Of course it's an economic decision, but don't forget that Phil Knight has been a major contributor to charities, health research, climate change research, etc. You have to figure that Nike corporation has more "social conscience" than say a goddamn New York real estate company and escort service.

That's a fair point.. although while it may be true that selected individual CEO's may demonstrate a social conscience by speech or by philanthropy, it's most often not connected to how their corporation behaves. Even wealthy CEO's are constrained by their board of directors, who are responsible to the shareholders.

John of Phoenix
09-04-2018, 11:40 AM
The great Yeti protest! How could I forget?
"If Yeti can't stand behind the NRA, I ain't standing behind Yeti no more!"

Yes, by all means, burn your Nikes into a puddle of goo then go buy several pair of Converse in protest. That'll show 'em.

:D LMAO :D

Breakaway
09-04-2018, 12:40 PM
Kapernick sacrificed his career and millions of dollars.

In this ad, Nike holds him up as a model of living and standing by one's principles; sacrifice for the good. Yet, Nike itself sacrifices nothing.

Now, the ad copy does read, " "...even if it requires sacrifice...", and so is not a demand for sacrifice. Therefore, NIKE's lack of sacrifice is not in literal conflict with its ad's copy.

It is, by not sacrificing, while lauding sacrifice by others, acting against the spirit of its ad copy, however. In that sense, Nike is being disingenuous.( In street talk, it takes a big set for them to be saying that. Of course, as a huge marketing organization, a big set is what it has.)

Kevin

amish rob
09-04-2018, 12:45 PM
I still hate Nike and their pseudo science which produced “high heeled” running shoes which injured so many people.

No amount of air in a tiny pocket can cushion a heel strike in a runner.

Bad! Let’s not even mention the shoes designed to end pronation...

That said, good for them. May as well get some loot for them and Colin. Isn’t that what businesses do?

I’m so jaded about Nike, I can imagine this as a ploy to rid the market of current models (through burning and hoarding) so they can release the newest Jordan, or whathaveyou. Haha.

Peace,
Robert

P.S. I’d rather back a cat who kneels for the anthem than one who punches a lady in the face and drags her from an elevator. Ahem...

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 12:51 PM
Kapernick sacrificed his career and millions of dollars.

In this ad, Nike holds him up as a model of living and standing by one's principles; sacrifice for the good. Yet, Nike itself sacrifices nothing.

Now, the ad copy does read, " "...even if it requires sacrifice...", and so is not a demand for sacrifice. Therefore, NIKE's lack of sacrifice is not in literal conflict with its ad's copy.

It is, by not sacrificing, while lauding sacrifice by others, acting against the spirit of its ad copy, however. In that sense, Nike is being disingenuous.( In street talk, it takes a big set for them to be saying that. Of course, as a huge marketing organization, a big set is what it has.)


Human beings can be disingenuous.... I don't believe corporations are capable of a human reaction such as that.

I'm amazed that there's been such a big deal being made out of this... when it's really simple. Nike thinks that it's customer base is likely to be sympathetic towards Kaperneck's political activity.... so, they attempt to cash in on it, by producing a marketing campaign extolling Kapernick's perceived willingness to take a big personal risk for the sake of his beliefs.

Are they Nike's beliefs? Corporations don't HAVE beliefs... other than the belief that a good advertising campaign will sell more sneakers.

If you are opposed to Kapernick's behavior, then you're not the customer Nike is targeting. If you support Kapernick's behavior, then MAYBE you'll vaguely associate the brand 'Nike' with political causes you agree with.... and the next time you're shopping for sneakers, you'll remember.

John of Phoenix
09-04-2018, 12:59 PM
How much stuff does Nike sell to the NFL? Jerseys, socks, jock straps, hats, etc.

They're taking a big risk.

Norman Bernstein
09-04-2018, 01:06 PM
How much stuff does Nike sell to the NFL? Jerseys, socks, jock straps, hats, etc.

They're taking a big risk.

I doubt it... endorsements are determined by cold hard cash.... specifically, how much cash Nike will pay the NFL to plaster their logo on the uniforms. Evidently, they are willing to pay more than others... and I doubt the Kapernick thing will have any effect.

Garret
09-04-2018, 01:30 PM
How much stuff does Nike sell to the NFL? Jerseys, socks, jock straps, hats, etc.

They're taking a big risk.

They are indeed - as the NFL is one of their biggest customers. Whether they gain or lose - I say good on 'em.

Now - about their support of Oregon football... (Yes that was a troll :))

John of Phoenix
09-04-2018, 01:32 PM
The haters are taking a lot of flak on Twitter -

Republicans are boycotting Nike because of an ad. Some are even ripping the logo off from their clothes and are in uproar because they sponsor Colin Kaepernick.
But liberals are the “snowflakes”?

I just wrote “NIKE” on twenty dollar bills and burned them to own the libs.

Bob Adams
09-04-2018, 01:36 PM
What did he sacrifice? He turned down a job from the 49ers. He's already made more money than most ever hope to in a lifetime.He's an a$$ who helped destroy the NFL.

Figment
09-04-2018, 01:39 PM
You're going to pin destruction of the NFL on THIS???

Durnik
09-04-2018, 01:50 PM
does Nike still use slave labor in child sweat shops?

and the bigots are proudly advertising.. in the greater world.. and on this forum.

That damn Obam.. er, Kaepernick!

David G
09-04-2018, 02:16 PM
Another viewpoint --

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a22966998/nike-colin-kaepernick-ad-just-do-it/?src=nl&mag=esq&list=nl_enl_news&date=090418

There's no question that this is a watershed. Kaepernick has managed to split Nike off from the NFL, enlist the company in his protest against police violence, encourage other players in their own protests, and do it all while putting some ill-gotten corporate money to good use, and putting a little of it into his own pocket as well. The deal is a thoroughgoing win for Kaepernick and his fellow players, and a thoroughgoing loss for the league. Various MAGA types have gone completely bananas; here are some people burning their Nike gear. (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__nymag.com_daily_intelligencer_2018_09_nike-2Dkaepernick-2Dad-2Dprotests.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=B73tqXN8Ec0ocRmZHMCntw&r=hZb2_NqFlv4vVku8prIWy_zjzb2-10g6sMSmJjEpNFA&m=mqEbqojnUUYh7M77h6HT0_le1B_OHQc7xWW15-7_YbU&s=_nMI5vrIyRTkltRlfAkbmCcp3xH5XxKZGVaHyKfPJZU&e=) But cold-eyed, soulless corporate creatures like Nike do not do things by accident. The company clearly thinks there's more to gain by making Kaepernick its public face than there is to lose, that it can make more money appealing to Kaepernick's supporters than it can by truckling to the shoe-burning crowd. That it is willing to take that gamble has a resonance far beyond the National Football League.

Paul Pless
09-04-2018, 06:54 PM
How much stuff does Nike sell to the NFL? Jerseys, socks, jock straps, hats, etc.

They're taking a big risk.they just signed a ten year contract with the nfl

Bob Adams
09-04-2018, 07:36 PM
You're going to pin destruction of the NFL on THIS???


I said HELPED destroy the NFL. Now these folks, they did sacrifice, and are why I stand for the Anthem.

22272

John of Phoenix
09-04-2018, 07:42 PM
Just signed it, eh? Interesting timing this Kaepernick thing.

:D LMAO :D

John of Phoenix
09-04-2018, 07:46 PM
Yeah, sacrificed "to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic."

Not the flag, not the anthem, not the president, the Constitution and the freedoms it guarantees. Like freedom of speech.

Joe (SoCal)
09-04-2018, 07:48 PM
I said HELPED destroy the NFL. Now these folks, they did sacrifice, and are why I stand for the Anthem.

22272

You have read Chads take on this haven't you ????
You do know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH DISRESPECTING THE MILITARY OR THE FLAG, RIGHT ?

FWIW here is a lifelong military man on this subject.

Betrayal


CHAD SMITH (https://www.facebook.com/chad.smith.3348)·TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2017 (https://www.facebook.com/notes/chad-smith/betrayal/1435181546519725/)

Let no one doubt my Patriotism or my love of country. Thirty one years (and counting) of military service. I’ve never backed down and I’ve always paid the upmost respect to our country, our flag, and our citizens. Doubt me not when I say I love my country.
You may ask what it is that I love about the USofA? Well the answer to that can be found in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This document outlines the basic freedoms that we enjoy, the freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, protection of the right of life and liberty. These rights and freedoms and many more can be found within that great document. When you get down to the nuts and bolts, what I love about my Country is that our founding fathers built this nation based on these rights and freedoms, free from the oppression of others. Sure we’ve had our bumps and bruises and we have a long way to go, but with our Constitution as the basic building block we can achieve a true equality of man.
We’ve come a long way but yet we still have a long way to go. As a middle aged Southern white male maybe I haven’t seen how severe the racial difference is, maybe I do experience “white privilege”. So I’m probably not in position to say how others have been wronged. What I can say though is if there is a perception of wrong and it is very deeply seated that somewhere there is a kernel of truth. I can’t be blinded by my own safe and secure life to the troubles of others. Just because I don’t see it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. When others talk about how they are oppressed or treated differently because of race and the call is repeated loudly and often, then I have to take notice and start to believe that yes there is a problem.
I love football, I love the thrill of the game and all the excitement that goes with the winning and all the sorrow that goes with losing. Football is that escape from the drudgery of life, it allows us to step outside of ourselves and to be part of something bigger, but at the end of the day I understand that this is just a game. Here of late however the game I love has been buried in a muck of controversy as players kneel during the National Anthem. This is not the protest I would choose.
I love my country and it brings a tear to my eye when I listen to the National Anthem, I think about all those rights and freedoms that was earned through the blood of others. I have a stirring in my heart as I think of all my brothers and sisters I served with over the years. I’m filled with pride as I think of my time served, of the times I spent away from my family so they and others could enjoy the rights and freedoms our forefathers fought for and established for us. I think of how brother fought brother to hold our nation together. I think of how not once but twice our grandfathers and fathers went off to help stop the spread of evil on the other side of the world. I think of our brothers and sisters that went around the world to spend their lives in defense of others. Of how we have tried to do our part to stop the spread of terror. And I also think about those great leaders that have struggled to bring us to the point where all men are equal.
On game day when I see players take a knee during the National Anthem I am not angered. I don’t take a personal affront to their kneeling, I don’t feel disrespected because of these actions. What I do feel is sadness deep in my heart. A feeling of betrayal, not by them, but a betrayal of us. The blood of our fathers has given us the foundations for the greatest nation ever, a nation where all are equal, a nation where brother and sisters stand arm in arm regardless of race or ethnic background. We as citizens, we as brothers & sisters, we have betrayed that trust given to us by these great men. When our fellow man feels so wronged, when injustice is so great, when this man feels that to make himself heard he has to take a knee during the National Anthem, yes friends WE have betrayed him!
These men are not “Sons of Bitches”, they aren’t disrespecting the flag. These men are taking a knee, crying out for help because we have betrayed them. There is an old saying “if there is smoke there is a fire”, well maybe these men have opened our eyes to the fire. If they choose to kneel in peaceful protest, I personally will defend their right even as I stand beside them with my hand on my heart.

George Jung
09-04-2018, 07:49 PM
Read the whole thing: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/12/history-national-anthem-sports-military-flag

Paul Pless
09-04-2018, 07:55 PM
Thanks for posting this, I hadn't read it before. Much respect Chad!


You have read Chads take on this haven't you ????
You do know it has NOTHING TO DO WITH DISRESPECTING THE MILITARY OR THE FLAG, RIGHT ?

FWIW here is a lifelong military man on this subject.

Betrayal


CHAD SMITH (https://www.facebook.com/chad.smith.3348)·TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2017 (https://www.facebook.com/notes/chad-smith/betrayal/1435181546519725/)

Let no one doubt my Patriotism or my love of country. Thirty one years (and counting) of military service. I’ve never backed down and I’ve always paid the upmost respect to our country, our flag, and our citizens. Doubt me not when I say I love my country.
You may ask what it is that I love about the USofA? Well the answer to that can be found in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This document outlines the basic freedoms that we enjoy, the freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, protection of the right of life and liberty. These rights and freedoms and many more can be found within that great document. When you get down to the nuts and bolts, what I love about my Country is that our founding fathers built this nation based on these rights and freedoms, free from the oppression of others. Sure we’ve had our bumps and bruises and we have a long way to go, but with our Constitution as the basic building block we can achieve a true equality of man.
We’ve come a long way but yet we still have a long way to go. As a middle aged Southern white male maybe I haven’t seen how severe the racial difference is, maybe I do experience “white privilege”. So I’m probably not in position to say how others have been wronged. What I can say though is if there is a perception of wrong and it is very deeply seated that somewhere there is a kernel of truth. I can’t be blinded by my own safe and secure life to the troubles of others. Just because I don’t see it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. When others talk about how they are oppressed or treated differently because of race and the call is repeated loudly and often, then I have to take notice and start to believe that yes there is a problem.
I love football, I love the thrill of the game and all the excitement that goes with the winning and all the sorrow that goes with losing. Football is that escape from the drudgery of life, it allows us to step outside of ourselves and to be part of something bigger, but at the end of the day I understand that this is just a game. Here of late however the game I love has been buried in a muck of controversy as players kneel during the National Anthem. This is not the protest I would choose.
I love my country and it brings a tear to my eye when I listen to the National Anthem, I think about all those rights and freedoms that was earned through the blood of others. I have a stirring in my heart as I think of all my brothers and sisters I served with over the years. I’m filled with pride as I think of my time served, of the times I spent away from my family so they and others could enjoy the rights and freedoms our forefathers fought for and established for us. I think of how brother fought brother to hold our nation together. I think of how not once but twice our grandfathers and fathers went off to help stop the spread of evil on the other side of the world. I think of our brothers and sisters that went around the world to spend their lives in defense of others. Of how we have tried to do our part to stop the spread of terror. And I also think about those great leaders that have struggled to bring us to the point where all men are equal.
On game day when I see players take a knee during the National Anthem I am not angered. I don’t take a personal affront to their kneeling, I don’t feel disrespected because of these actions. What I do feel is sadness deep in my heart. A feeling of betrayal, not by them, but a betrayal of us. The blood of our fathers has given us the foundations for the greatest nation ever, a nation where all are equal, a nation where brother and sisters stand arm in arm regardless of race or ethnic background. We as citizens, we as brothers & sisters, we have betrayed that trust given to us by these great men. When our fellow man feels so wronged, when injustice is so great, when this man feels that to make himself heard he has to take a knee during the National Anthem, yes friends WE have betrayed him!
These men are not “Sons of Bitches”, they aren’t disrespecting the flag. These men are taking a knee, crying out for help because we have betrayed them. There is an old saying “if there is smoke there is a fire”, well maybe these men have opened our eyes to the fire. If they choose to kneel in peaceful protest, I personally will defend their right even as I stand beside them with my hand on my heart.

Bob Adams
09-04-2018, 08:10 PM
Opinions vary. Including those of military personnel.

Bob Adams
09-04-2018, 08:19 PM
22274

Joe (SoCal)
09-04-2018, 08:22 PM
Opinions vary. Including those of military personnel.

Kinda like scientist on global warming eh ?

Lets get this straight from the get go. The constitution, bill of right and evern the federalist papers kinda stand by Chad's description pretty accurately.

Bob ya know I love ya man, but you have been sold a slight of hand bag of false goods and you've bought into it lock stock and smoking barrels.

The NFL players peacefully protesting the National Anthem has nothing, NOTHING nothing to do with disrespecting our troops, or the flag. It has to do with making a statement peacefully that black people are systematic racially profiled and the continued injustice and police brutality being carried out on them everyday. It has to do with exercising the first amendment that the flag & the anthem represents.

Bob Let me ask you would you bitch if players took a knee for aborted babies ? How about for Catholic Church Pedophilia ? Or is it just highly paid black athletes expressing their constitutional rights that bothers you ?

Joe (SoCal)
09-04-2018, 08:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-zACYVKqk

:D :D :D :D

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
09-04-2018, 09:20 PM
I can't afford Nike's.
I buy my cheap shoes at Walmart because they're close to home.
My world is so different.
Hat's off to Mr. Kaepernick for trying to point out how screwed things are but I already know about that.
Before I'd burn a perfectly good pair of shoes I'd have to give them to someone, preferably a homeless Veteran.

David G
09-04-2018, 09:42 PM
Read the whole thing: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/12/history-national-anthem-sports-military-flag

A good perspective. Here's a snippet --

The bombastic pre-game spectacles of patriotism that had become commonplace at NFL games began to make sense in 2015, after a report by Republican senators John McCain and Jeff Flake revealed the Department of Defense had spread $6.8m of taxpayer money among more than 50 professional teams across the NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS and Nascar.

In return, the teams promised organized displays of national pride including the honoring of members of the armed forces, surprise military homecomings and on-field color guard and reenlistment ceremonies. The co-opting of America’s most popular institutions as recruiting tools went by an easy-to-remember name: paid patriotism (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/05/report-highlights-the-obscene-price-of-nfls-paid-patriotism).

“Americans deserve the ability to assume that tributes for our men and women in military uniform are genuine displays of national pride, which many are, rather than taxpayer-funded DOD marketing gimmicks,” the 145-page report said.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the NBA’s all-time leading scorer and a longtime champion of civil rights, was to the point in his defense of Kaepernick for the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/30/insulting-colin-kaepernick-says-more-about-our-patriotism-than-his/?utm_term=.94a637e9ad3d). He wrote: “What should horrify Americans is not Kaepernick’s choice to remain seated during the national anthem, but that nearly 50 years after [Muhammad] Ali was banned from boxing for his stance and Tommie Smith and John Carlos’ raised fists caused public ostracization and numerous death threats, we still need to call attention to the same racial inequities. Failure to fix this problem is what’s really un-American here.”

Stick to sports? Good luck. It’s clear by now that the battle hymn at the center of national debate in the US will always be associated with the games we watch. If only our commitment to the issues put forth by Kaepernick and co was as resolute.

David G
09-04-2018, 09:52 PM
And here is another perspective --

https://www.yahoo.com/news/taking-knee-why-nfl-players-070600062.html

The fact is, CK's protest started with him remaining seated on the bench during the anthem. He was asked about it and said he did so to protest the racial inequality in the U.S. - and esp. the too-quick use of violence against members of communities of color. Whereupon he was contacted by another NFL veteran, Nate Boyer, who had also been a Green Beret, who stated that some might regard it as disrespectful to veterans to simply remain on the bench. Kaepernick listened to Boyer's suggestion that he instead kneel. Since kneeling was regarded as a sign of respect for fallen comrades in the military community.

All this talk about how Kaepernick kneels to disrespect the flag, and veterans, and mothers, and apple pie, and all that... is just horseradish. He kneels, in fact, to make sure that his protest is NOT taken as disrespectful. As suggested by his Green Beret friend.

But some people will tell the lie in an effort to discredit Kaepernick for ideological reasons. It's a lie. Pure and simple. Disrespecting anyone is far from the intention of those who kneel. Highlighting the fact that Kareem mentions in the post above.

“What should horrify Americans is not Kaepernick’s choice to remain seated (or kneel) during the national anthem, but that nearly 50 years after [Muhammad] Ali was banned from boxing for his stance and Tommie Smith and John Carlos’ raised fists caused public ostracization and numerous death threats, we still need to call attention to the same racial inequities. Failure to fix this problem is what’s really un-American here.”

David G
09-04-2018, 10:21 PM
And... another look. Some of y'all are not only on the wrong side of the facts, and the wrong side of history... you are also on the wrong side of the Old Phart Gap --

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/nike-apos-controversial-kaepernick-ad-200800254.html

David G
09-04-2018, 10:47 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40867245_2677150968962531_2144730518128689152_n.pn g?_nc_cat=1&oh=0ef602f3249c6bd217bef749591874bd&oe=5BF53475

David G
09-04-2018, 11:06 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40993456_1866107106802825_3442743993748684800_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&oh=fd15a277555f3ec38092444c10f6651d&oe=5C2E4DE5

BrianW
09-05-2018, 12:40 AM
Nike is after money, and nothing else. If they wanted a NFL Football player who sacrificed everything, they could have picked this guy...

22281

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 12:48 AM
It occurs to me, that Nike achieves more than just potential audience growth and copulation. They instigate a free social media campaign. By choosing such a high-profile and highly-controversial subject matter, one in which sides will be vociferously taken, they assure that their brand name bubbles-up constantly on social media. They use us to sell to us.

Kevin

skuthorp
09-05-2018, 04:40 AM
It occurs to me, that Nike achieves more than just potential audience growth and copulation. They instigate a free social media campaign. By choosing such a high-profile and highly-controversial subject matter, one in which sides will be vociferously taken, they assure that their brand name bubbles-up constantly on social media. They use us to sell to us.

Kevin
I agree, they have made a marketing decision, and decided that the market that will agree with the move will out-buy the market that will not. And the protagonists will do most of the marketing for free.

RFNK
09-05-2018, 04:50 AM
Yeah, sacrificed "to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic."

Not the flag, not the anthem, not the president, the Constitution and the freedoms it guarantees. Like freedom of speech.

Exactly.

Rick

Bob Adams
09-05-2018, 07:37 AM
Kinda like scientist on global warming eh ?

Lets get this straight from the get go. The constitution, bill of right and evern the federalist papers kinda stand by Chad's description pretty accurately.

Bob ya know I love ya man, but you have been sold a slight of hand bag of false goods and you've bought into it lock stock and smoking barrels.

The NFL players peacefully protesting the National Anthem has nothing, NOTHINGnothing to do with disrespecting our troops, or the flag. It has to do with making a statement peacefully that black people are systematic racially profiled and the continued injustice and police brutality being carried out on them everyday. It has to do with exercising the first amendment that the flag & the anthem represents.

Bob Let me ask you would you bitch if players took a knee for aborted babies ? How about for Catholic Church Pedophilia ? Or is it just highly paid black athletes expressing their constitutional rights that bothers you ?



As to your small print question, yes I would bitch, I don't pay to see a protest, I pay for a sporting event these employees are paid to play. Furthermore I care not a whit about a person's skin color. I also couldn't care less about anyone expressing their constitutional rights on their own time.

Figment
09-05-2018, 09:12 AM
By the same argument, Bob, you didn't pay to participate in a patriotic rah-rah session which has nothing whatsoever to do with the sporting event.

well, ok, you did. The DOD subsidizes this recruitment tool, so we've all paid for it, but still you can see my point.

David G
09-05-2018, 09:15 AM
It occurs to me, that Nike achieves more than just potential audience growth and copulation. They instigate a free social media campaign. By choosing such a high-profile and highly-controversial subject matter, one in which sides will be vociferously taken, they assure that their brand name bubbles-up constantly on social media. They use us to sell to us.

Kevin

Ya Think???

Nike's marketing genius is well-known.

Weiden + Kennedy are masters of the zeitgeist.

David G
09-05-2018, 09:17 AM
Yeah, sacrificed "to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic."

Not the flag, not the anthem, not the president, the Constitution and the freedoms it guarantees. Like freedom of speech.

Ayup.

But, again, CK's protest wasn't aimed at veterans. Or the flag. Or anyone's mom.

David G
09-05-2018, 09:18 AM
By the same argument, Bob, you didn't pay to participate in a patriotic rah-rah session which has nothing whatsoever to do with the sporting event.

well, ok, you did. The DOD subsidizes this recruitment tool, so we've all paid for it, but still you can see my point.

Precisely.

amish rob
09-05-2018, 09:29 AM
Ya Think???

Nike's marketing genius is well-known.

Weiden + Kennedy are masters of the zeitgeist.

Yeah. They “invented” all manner of improvements for running shoes, and suckers bought them up.

People still think you need air filled “high heels” to run, all because some cat with a waffle iron thought he was smart.

Also, anyone familiar with “Jordans”? Marketing genius, helped along by their marketing ploy that eliminates models regularly to reintroduce them later, or modify them somehow.

There is always something new to need from Nike.

Peace,
Robert

David G
09-05-2018, 09:37 AM
Yeah. They “invented” all manner of improvements for running shoes, and suckers bought them up.

People still think you need air filled “high heels” to run, all because some cat with a waffle iron thought he was smart.

Also, anyone familiar with “Jordans”? Marketing genius, helped along by their marketing ploy that eliminates models regularly to reintroduce them later, or modify them somehow.

There is always something new to need from Nike.

Peace,
Robert

Yes... and did you HEAR??? This new toothpaste from Colgate will not only make your breath fresh for weeks, it will get you ALL the girls/guys. And have you tried Dr. Markus Pinkham's All-Purpose Pills? They are guaranteed to cure what ail's ya. Everything from gout to bone spurs to an excess of wind. Really. Guaranteed by Dr. Pinkham personally. Sez so right on the box.

David G
09-05-2018, 09:48 AM
Really? :D

That's what I hear. Didn't you get the package of Pinkham's Pills I sent for your approval? <G>

amish rob
09-05-2018, 10:01 AM
Yes... and did you HEAR??? This new toothpaste from Colgate will not only make your breath fresh for weeks, it will get you ALL the girls/guys. And have you tried Dr. Markus Pinkham's All-Purpose Pills? They are guaranteed to cure what ail's ya. Everything from gout to bone spurs to an excess of wind. Really. Guaranteed by Dr. Pinkham personally. Sez so right on the box.


Well, it took years of research and study into running injury incidence to trace most of the injuries to the shoes themselves.

Anecdotal, I know, but I have not suffered ONE SINGLE INJURY in the years I’ve been running barefoot (or minimalist shoe), and I have upped my mileage considerably. I will think nothing of a 200 mile week. No IT issues, no hip pain, no sore ankles or feet.
The ACSM recently changed all their shoe guidelines, and stopped recommending “high heels” and air or gel cushions. The bottom line is, shoes do nothing but keep feet clean.
Arches, motion control, shock absorbers (are you kidding me?) are all garbage and were marketed as science by having “scientific” studies back them up by people who were more interested in selling shoes than in people running.

Of course, the people are to blame as much. Nobody wants to do the work to learn how to run. They’d rather buy magic shoes.

Peace,
Robert

John of Phoenix
09-05-2018, 10:03 AM
"Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door." - Emerson

"If they have to advertise it, you probably don't need it." - JoP

David G
09-05-2018, 10:05 AM
Well, it took years of research and study into running injury incidence to trace most of the injuries to the shoes themselves.

Anecdotal, I know, but I have not suffered ONE SINGLE INJURY in the years I’ve been running barefoot (or minimalist shoe), and I have upped my mileage considerably. I will think nothing of a 200 mile week. No IT issues, no hip pain, no sore ankles or feet.
The ACSM recently changed all their shoe guidelines, and stopped recommending “high heels” and air or gel cushions. The bottom line is, shoes do nothing but keep feet clean.
Arches, motion control, shock absorbers (are you kidding me?) are all garbage and were marketed as science by having “scientific” studies back them up by people who were more interested in selling shoes than in people running.

Of course, the people are to blame as much. Nobody wants to do the work to learn how to run. They’d rather buy magic shoes.

Peace,
Robert

Same thing in woodworking. They read articles about nifty tools, written by publications that make their ad dollars shilling for the tool companies. Then they imagine that buying the newest, greatest, best tool money can procure... will jump-start their skillset. Sadly... it's mostly just not true. The finest hand plane will not help if you don't understand the fundamentals of wood... and, btw, haven't bothered to learn to sharpen it.

I think I might just git me some of that toothpaste, though!

amish rob
09-05-2018, 10:06 AM
Again, I don’t mean advertising. I mean pseudo scientific literature and organizations such as the ACSM giving “official” credence to the whacky ideas of shoes manufacturers.

Things like “motion control” shoes. Not marketed with hype, but with official recommendations.

I mean running shoes, not Cortezes. And I don’t man JUST Nike, but they did start it all. The modern era, I mean.

Peace,
Robert

Joe (SoCal)
09-05-2018, 10:06 AM
Nike is after money, and nothing else. If they wanted a NFL Football player who sacrificed everything, they could have picked this guy...

22281

B-Dub you do know that Tillman was killed by friendly fire ( after they lied that he was killed by the enemy )

So let me grapple with the Nike phrase you slapped on Tillmans face. "Believe in something Even if it means losing everything"
So Tillman believed in serving our country, and his death was falsely used as propaganda until it was proven that he was killed with friendly fire. So I'm not sure if the Tillman family would agree with the continued use of his image and that phrase.

amish rob
09-05-2018, 10:09 AM
Same thing in woodworking. They read articles about nifty tools, written by publications that make their ad dollars shilling for the tool companies. Then they imagine that buying the newest, greatest, best tool money can procure... will jump-start their skillset. Sadly... it's mostly just not true. The finest hand plane will not help if you don't understand the fundamentals of wood... and, btw, haven't bothered to learn to sharpen it.

I think I might just git me some of that toothpaste, though!

Right. Then, to go one further, someone needs to recommend ALL woodworkers use a particular type of tool. Using doctors and science to scare people into believe I got they need a certain type of plane steel, when what they really needed was plane practice.

It is all the “science” and official recommendations that bother me.

I did like the Spike Lee ads. :)

Peace,
Robert

David G
09-05-2018, 10:14 AM
Right. Then, to go one further, someone needs to recommend ALL woodworkers use a particular type of tool. Using doctors and science to scare people into believe I got they need a certain type of plane steel, when what they really needed was plane practice.

It is all the “science” and official recommendations that bother me.

I did like the Spike Lee ads. :)

Peace,
Robert

Gotcha covered.

Sawstop.

A local company whose efforts and innovation I support and applaud. Their contribution to safety is important. And they don't just lean on that one innovation - they also make one of the best engineered saws on the market, with a range of well-considered features.

And yet there are many who believe everyone everywhere should use that saw, and only that saw.

I've laid out all the arguments before, but the short version is: not necessarily... horses for courses.

amish rob
09-05-2018, 10:15 AM
Gotcha covered.

Sawstop.

A local company whose efforts and innovation I support and applaud. Their contribution to safety is important. And they don't just lean on that one innovation - they also make one of the best engineered saws on the market, with a range of well-considered features.

And yet there are many who believe everyone everywhere should use that saw, and only that saw.

I've laid out all the arguments before, but the short version is: not necessarily... horses for courses.


Yar! Same same. I know exactly whatcha mean!

It is really weird when we agree. :d

Peace,
Robert

David G
09-05-2018, 10:18 AM
Yar! Same same. I know exactly whatcha mean!

It is really weird when we agree. :d

Peace,
Robert

Who SEZ we agree?!?!? <G>

amish rob
09-05-2018, 10:19 AM
Who SEZ we agree?!?!? <G>
Nike. Hehe.

Peace,
Robert

Canoez
09-05-2018, 10:21 AM
Gotcha covered.

Sawstop.

A local company whose efforts and innovation I support and applaud. Their contribution to safety is important. And they don't just lean on that one innovation - they also make one of the best engineered saws on the market, with a range of well-considered features.

And yet there are many who believe everyone everywhere should use that saw, and only that saw.

I've laid out all the arguments before, but the short version is: not necessarily... horses for courses.

I know there are folks that think SawStop is greedy in not sharing their technology, but that's their idea and they're marketing it. That's what they do.

That said, the concept is a great one. It works. I'd love to see it applied to other saws and other types of woodworking machinery. Particularly in teaching environments.

:::Returning to your regularly scheduled Nike thread:::

David G
09-05-2018, 10:31 AM
sawstop is done, now owned by festool, with corresponding increase in price :D
i'm sure it'll be a better product now though
the creator of and original owner of sawstop was/is a douchebag

all that said, i'd happily trade my unisaw on one

Gass a douchbag? How so?

And I would recommend the Sawstop highly in your case!! <G>

When I heard about the sale, I couldn't help but wonder if Festool would be adapting the technology to other of their tools. They've got the money to invest in the R&D.

David G
09-05-2018, 10:39 AM
his lobbying efforts to make other saws illegal

Nope. I don't blame him a bit.

He didn't want to be in the saw business. He wanted to simply license his invention to other existing firms. They snubbed and insulted him. Enough to provoke him sufficiently to put together a company to manufacture saws using the innovation. He did an excellent job, and deserves all the protection that patent laws are designed to provide. I don't begrudge him an aggressive defense of his technology. Nor do I blink at him taking every opportunity to rub their noses in it by maximizing his advantage. I'd do and say the same thing. "Now you want to jump on board, and take advantage of not only my invention, but the efforts you forced me into in order to prove the concept? Go pizzuparope."

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 10:54 AM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Figment http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=5666572#post5666572)

By the same argument, Bob, you didn't pay to participate in a patriotic rah-rah session which has nothing whatsoever to do with the sporting event.

Can anyone remember a time when patriotic rah rah was not a part of sports? Its been integral forever--what would be weird would be to attend or view sports and not expect patriotic rah-rah.

Kevin

David G
09-05-2018, 11:01 AM
poor guy

I wasn't saying he suffered Oizysian levels of suffering. I was saying if I'd been treated the way he was treated, I'd likely have responded the same way. If I had to guess... I'd say you would have as well.

David G
09-05-2018, 11:03 AM
Can anyone remember a time when patriotic rah rah was not a part of sports? Its been integral forever--what would be weird would be to attend or view sports and not expect patriotic rah-rah.

Kevin

Why yes. Yes I can.

No, it has NOT been integral forever. Maybe just during your lifetime... and in some sports? I could see that.

But you're right - it is now. Which supports the argument of perversion and hypocrisy broached earlier.

amish rob
09-05-2018, 11:03 AM
Can anyone remember a time when patriotic rah rah was not a part of sports? Its been integral forever--what would be weird would be to attend or view sports and not expect patriotic rah-rah.

Kevin


I was a pro racer for 10 years, and we never once had any rah rah. No rah rah in softball or basketball, either, that I’ve seen.
No rah rah at the pro baseball games we attend.

In fact, as I don’t watch football, I really had no idea this was even a thing until the kneelers got atttention.

Peace,
Robert

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 11:10 AM
No rah rah at the pro baseball games we attend.

Really? What MLB team does not play the national anthem ( or both if the opponent is Canadian)?




No rah rah in softball of basketball, either, that I’ve seen.
No rah rah at the pro baseball games we attend.


Attend a big game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ku1e4G2naE


Kevin

Tom Wilkinson
09-05-2018, 11:10 AM
Can anyone remember a time when patriotic rah rah was not a part of sports? Its been integral forever--what would be weird would be to attend or view sports and not expect patriotic rah-rah.

Kevin

I don't recall it at all in high school events in the 80's. None whatsoever. And the marketing campaigns specifically for it were started post 9-11. I don't recall military flyovers and such prior to that.

amish rob
09-05-2018, 11:12 AM
Really? What MLB team does not play the national anthem ( or both if the opponent is Canadian)?




Attend a big game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ku1e4G2naE


Kevin


Check your tone.

Peace,
Robert

switters
09-05-2018, 11:12 AM
Can anyone remember a time when patriotic rah rah was not a part of sports? Its been integral forever--what would be weird would be to attend or view sports and not expect patriotic rah-rah.

Kevin

I was wondering the same thing and came across this article. Seems it has been around a long time but not at the levels we currently experience. Full disclosure, I have not been to or watched a professional sportball game in several years but keep hearing about all this kerfuffle in the news.

Historian Marc Ferris wrote a history of the national anthem in which he points out that, at first, the anthem didn't exactly come free.
"The thing is, you had to hire a band," he told NPR in 2016 (http://www.npr.org/2016/09/04/492599463/how-did-the-national-anthem-get-to-be-a-mainstay-of-sports-in-the-first-place). "That was expensive, so it was only for special occasions," like opening day.
Ferris says that after World War II, sound systems allowed teams and parks to play the anthem sans band. That's when the practice became particularly widespread, because the new tech coincided with a huge swell in patriotism.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/us/nfl-national-anthem-trump-kaepernick-history-trnd/index.html

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 11:16 AM
Check your tone.

What did you race? Cars? Bikes? Track? Motocross? If we search those sports out at the highest levels we will find video showing national anthems, flags and fans wearing patriotic colors.

Kevin

amish rob
09-05-2018, 11:22 AM
What did you race? Cars? Bikes? Track? Motocross? If we search those sports out at the highest levels we will find video showing national anthems, flags and fans wearing patriotic colors.

Kevin

Hey. Take off with your attitude.

Playing an anthem isn’t at all in it with the rah rah at football games.

By the by, I’ve stood atop a podium while they played the Star Spangled Banner, and I mouthed the words the whole time.
Stood right beside my buddy when he won a world championship. No rah rah. Just an anthem recognizing his nationality.

Peace,
Robert

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 11:25 AM
By the by, I’ve stood atop a podium while they played the Star Spangled Banner, and I mouthed the words the whole time.
Stood right beside my buddy when he won a world championship. No rah rah. Just an anthem recognizing his nationality.

I would say singing a national song in unison with others is the very definition of, rah-rah. YMMV.

Kevin

amish rob
09-05-2018, 11:36 AM
I would say singing a national song in unison with others is the very definition of, rah-rah. YMMV.

Kevin


You don’t do nuance well, do you?

Also, you did notice the OTHER people who refuted your claim, right?

Peace,
Robert

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 11:55 AM
You don’t do nuance well, do you?

Also, you did notice the OTHER people who refuted your claim, right?

Others can refute all they want. Fact is, unless one is 100 years old, one has no firsthand knowledge of sports without nationalism.

Now, this is not my advocating for it, nor decrying it, just saying it has been integral since before just about everyone here was born.

As for nuance, one's personal feelings while singing the anthem with everyone else are way subordinate to the very fact that one is singing an anthem with everybody else. Remember, there is no, "I," in "team."

Kevin

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 11:58 AM
Why yes. Yes I can.

No, it has NOT been integral forever. Maybe just during your lifetime... and in some sports?

Do we really need to frame this so specifically? The first reported anthem singing in baseball took place in the late 1800's. In football it was in the 1930's--and became regular after WWII. ( see the link Switters posted--its as good as any.)

Then there is that thing called the Olympics.... just how old are you?

Kevin

Edit: Typo

amish rob
09-05-2018, 12:12 PM
Others can refute all they want. Fact is, unless one is 100 years old, one has no firsthand knowledge of sports without nationalism.

Now, this is not my advocating for it, nor decrying it, just saying it has been integral since before just about everyone here was born.

As for nuance, one's personal feelings while singing the anthem with everyone else are way subordinate to the very fact that one is singing an anthem with everybody else. Remember, there is no, "I," in "team."

Kevin

The differnece is between an anthem being played for a victorious athlete, and an anthem being played at the beginning of an event.

You will notice the mention of a podium?

Peace,
Robert

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 12:15 PM
The differnece is between an anthem being played for a victorious athlete, and an anthem being played at the beginning of an event.

I'd call that a difference without a distinction. The rah-rah was present.

Kevin

EDIT: Did his Jersey reflect his nation's flag's colors? Was there a sticker of his nation's flag on his helmet? Did his nation's flag appear beside his name on the TV graphics? What about the other competitors?

Kevin

George Jung
09-05-2018, 12:37 PM
How long has the Anthem been a 'part of ' sports?

Again: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/12/history-national-anthem-sports-military-flag


But how did a song about the War of 1812 that wasn’t even adopted as the national anthem until the 1930s become so indelibly bound to the American sporting experience? It didn’t happen overnight.

Richard Williams



While the first documented performance of the Star-Spangled Banner at a sporting event was before an 1862 baseball game in Brooklyn, the anthem as game-day ritual became crystallized in the national consciousness during Game 1 of the 1918 World Series between the Red Sox and Cubs at Chicago’s Comiskey Park. These were the days before stadium sound systems that blast pop music at ear-splitting volumes during even the thinnest slivers of down time. Live music was a luxury that incurred the cost of hiring a military band, which left renditions of the anthem for special occasions like opening day or the World Series.

BrianW
09-05-2018, 12:38 PM
B-Dub you do know that Tillman was killed by friendly fire ( after they lied that he was killed by the enemy )

So let me grapple with the Nike phrase you slapped on Tillmans face. "Believe in something Even if it means losing everything"
So Tillman believed in serving our country, and his death was falsely used as propaganda until it was proven that he was killed with friendly fire. So I'm not sure if the Tillman family would agree with the continued use of his image and that phrase.

That has nothing to do with the fact he lost everything for something he believed in. He's a better fit for Nike than Colin.

BrianW
09-05-2018, 12:41 PM
How about this guy?

22319

Any non-relevant thoughts on why he wouldn't be a good choice?

BrianW
09-05-2018, 12:42 PM
Finally, there's this guy...

22321

George Jung
09-05-2018, 12:44 PM
You've very smoothly ignored that earlier post, noting that one of CK's team mates (former military) suggested taking a knee - considered honorable - while still calling attention to these issues.

This really isn't that difficult - unless you have an agenda, and wish it to be.

BrianW
09-05-2018, 12:45 PM
You've very smoothly ignored that earlier post, noting that one of CK's team mates (former military) suggested taking a knee - considered honorable - while still calling attention to these issues.

This really isn't that difficult - unless you have an agenda, and wish it to be.

Are you talking to me?

David G
09-05-2018, 12:46 PM
That has nothing to do with the fact he lost everything for something he believed in. He's a better fit for Nike than Colin.

A better fit? Have you missed all the (accurate) commentary about how adopting CK as the latest 'face' of Nike is based partly on the recent controversy? They generated a lot of buzz with that choice. Would Tillman or Coffee have done the same? No. And would they have done it in such a way as to come down on not only the right side of history... but on the right side of the demographic that buys lots of shoes? No.

BrianW
09-05-2018, 12:50 PM
A better fit? Have you missed all the (accurate) commentary about how adopting CK as the latest 'face' of Nike is based partly on the recent controversy? They generated a lot of buzz with that choice. Would Tillman or Coffee have done the same? No. And would they have done it in such a way as to come down on not only the right side of history... but on the right side of the demographic that buys lots of shoes? No.

Of course it's about the latest (although it's hardly new) controversy. But Tillman gave up more, Coffee should appear to the correct demographic, as he's trying to get back into football, Rich... well he represents the concept, maybe not as well as Colin.

Norman Bernstein
09-05-2018, 01:23 PM
How about this guy?


I completely resent the implication that to be a hero or role model, one has to serve in the military.

Both Kaepernik, as well as Coffee, took a stand. Coffee did the thing that no one could POSSIBLY criticize: serving one's country. It's not an endorsement of any particular political point of view (unless you're part of the brain dead contingent who thinks that only right wing politics are patriotic)... but while he experienced physical risk, he faced absolutely NO risk of criticism or castigation for taking on an unpopular viewpoint.

Kaepernik didn't expose himself to physical danger, true.... but there are all sorts of heroes, including ones that DON'T have to expose themselves to physical danger, in order to take a stand. Was Mother Theresa not a hero? Martin Luther King? King, in particular, was a champion of a perspective that, at the time, was indeed unpopular... the notion that African Americans ought to have the same rights as white Americans, was NOT a widely supported principle in the early 1960's.

Kaepernik protested the inequities evident in American society... and, in doing so, exposed himself to substantial risk, clearly demonstrated, over and over again. Does it make him a hero? Not particularly... but it should engender some quantum of respect for standing for principle.

Joe (SoCal)
09-05-2018, 01:28 PM
That has nothing to do with the fact he lost everything for something he believed in. He's a better fit for Nike than Colin.

I disagree. I think Kaepernick is a far better fit. He's current, he has consistently been sponsored by Nike, so he represents their brand better. While Tillman gave up an NFL career his military boots weren't sponsored by Nike (yet)


MOST IMPORTANTLY You are failing to recognize the Tillman's Family expressed desire to be excluded from such propaganda. What you are suggesting is to IGNORE the family to promote a political / advertising agenda ? YOU LITERALLY USED HIS IMAGE IN THIS THREAD AS A MEME How do you think his family would feel about that ? Have you thought about that when you posted it ???Same could be said about the Mollie Tibbetts family: Read her fathers statement: https://www.thecut.com/2018/09/father-of-mollie-tibbetts-writes-op-ed-pleading-for-decency.html That's just so wrong on so many levels.

The current Nike ad was done with Kaepernick's blessing and I'm sure a hefty paycheck ( which I would be surprised if it didn't go directly to his foundation ) https://kaepernick7.com/

John of Phoenix
09-05-2018, 01:31 PM
I'd classify multiple, ongoing death threats as "physical danger".

Breakaway
09-05-2018, 01:47 PM
Kaepernick is the better fit because using him generates more controversy. More people are divided on CK, ergo there will be more pubic argument on social media, as this thread proves.

Kevin

Joe (SoCal)
09-05-2018, 01:50 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmWYSbdU8AA-2NT.jpg:large

BrianW
09-05-2018, 02:13 PM
I completely resent the implication that to be a hero or role model, one has to serve in the military.

I posted people who had been in the NFL before doing something for the good of others. Except Rich. :)

BrianW
09-05-2018, 02:19 PM
I disagree. I think Kaepernick is a far better fit. He's current, he has consistently been sponsored by Nike, so he represents their brand better. While Tillman gave up an NFL career his military boots weren't sponsored...

I can respect Tillman’s family’s wishes just fine. I’m glad Nike didn’t choose him.

Joe (SoCal)
09-05-2018, 02:25 PM
I can respect Tillman’s family’s wishes just fine. I’m glad Nike didn’t choose him.

THIS is how you respect the Tillman's family wish to not use their son's death for political or advertising purposes ?


http://forum.woodenboat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22281&d=1536126021&thumb=1

Joe (SoCal)
09-05-2018, 03:25 PM
SWOOSH !!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mreQsQrDF-A

John of Phoenix
09-05-2018, 04:15 PM
I think you mean "SWOOSH !!!!" :)

Joe (SoCal)
09-05-2018, 04:24 PM
I think you mean "SWOOSH !!!!" :)

Edited :D

skuthorp
09-05-2018, 04:27 PM
A better fit? Have you missed all the (accurate) commentary about how adopting CK as the latest 'face' of Nike is based partly on the recent controversy? They generated a lot of buzz with that choice. Would Tillman or Coffee have done the same? No. And would they have done it in such a way as to come down on not only the right side of history... but on the right side of the demographic that buys lots of shoes? No.

A point I have made before is that yhis is a business decision carefully researched. But if you want football heroes try googling Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE)
"Brain damage was diagnosed in 87 percent of donated brains of 202 football players, including all but one of 111 brains of National Football League athletes."
https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/25/16025146/chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy-football-cognition-health

David G
09-05-2018, 09:28 PM
Nike's stock is up on the day. Other shoe companies... not so much. The whole Boycott Nike thing seems to be *hanging fire*... except among certain select demographics --

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40774089_861414080729949_2019428334781333504_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=1&oh=7e62654c2f03972d5c178465f641e630&oe=5C248583

David G
09-05-2018, 09:44 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40747827_10160924409615235_1606343985184374784_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&oh=129a6cf6b604b2557fe1f3630592a726&oe=5BF88FAF

David G
09-05-2018, 10:11 PM
At long last!!!!

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40950799_10215207003999919_5099522057608101888_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=73af394adcf1093bc0dfb36e29ca049b&oe=5BF24913

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
09-05-2018, 10:24 PM
https://soepic.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/096720d019094e924.jpg

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
09-05-2018, 10:30 PM
https://media3.giphy.com/media/DPermpEkwIjJK/giphy.gif

Joe (SoCal)
09-05-2018, 11:03 PM
How do crazy Trumpsters deal with this dilemma :D

https://di2ponv0v5otw.cloudfront.net/posts/2018/03/12/5aa6a6f73b160819e318bd73/m_5aa6a76e9cc7efb0dc006853.jpg

How do you burn these ?

:D :D :D

BrianW
09-06-2018, 12:54 AM
THIS is how you respect the Tillman's family wish to not use their son's death for political or advertising purposes ?

I tried to be agreeable, but...

You've have now posted more times than me. I did not create it, and I don't need a moral lesson from someone who calls the first lady a whore...


Obviously one knows how to use a hoe and the other ..........

David G
09-07-2018, 07:51 AM
The ad seems to be a hit with consumers --

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/colin-kaepernicks-nike-commercial-big-hit-consumers-according-industry-group-035831547.html

CWSmith
09-07-2018, 08:14 AM
I like what Nike is doing. If I liked their shoes, I'd buy an extra pair.

amish rob
09-07-2018, 08:17 AM
Aside from the narrow lasts, which don’t fit my swim fin/Daffy Duck feet, I dislike Nike so much, I won’t wear their shoes.

I DID however go buy 10 pairs to hand out to homeless folks. What? Me and Youngest Son took the scooter out for a spin, and needed an agenda. :)

Peace,
Robert

Old Dryfoot
09-07-2018, 08:36 AM
How do crazy Trumpsters deal with this dilemma :D

https://di2ponv0v5otw.cloudfront.net/posts/2018/03/12/5aa6a6f73b160819e318bd73/m_5aa6a76e9cc7efb0dc006853.jpg

How do you burn these ?

:D :D :D

With fireworks?

David G
09-10-2018, 10:26 AM
Meanwhile... the horrible impact of the boycott on Nike --

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-twitter-data-says-about-the-nike-boycott-2018-09-08?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

I think maybe those fireworks were wet or sumptin...

CWSmith
09-10-2018, 11:11 AM
Here's a new low in wankerism. A Louisiana mayor has forbidden any city-supported program to buy Nike products.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-mayor-bans-nike-purchases-for-recreation-programs-memo/ar-BBN67Hd?ocid=spartandhp

Good to know how those tax dollars are used to control his party's political goals.

David G
09-10-2018, 02:41 PM
And Nike sales took an initial hit, but have rebounded. And, once again, the distribution channels that the younger folks use are quite healthy. Online sales, for instance, for the relevant period, are up 31%, compared to a rise of 17% for the same period last year.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nikes-online-sales-jumped-31-after-company-unveiled-kaepernick-campaign-2018-09-07?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

John of Phoenix
09-10-2018, 03:07 PM
I haven't bought anything Nike for years... until yesterday.

David G
09-10-2018, 03:09 PM
I haven't bought anything Nike for years... until yesterday.

You must be one of them 'younger folks', eh? <G>

John of Phoenix
09-10-2018, 03:10 PM
Might be the longest childhood on record. :)

David G
09-10-2018, 03:16 PM
Might be the longest childhood on record. :)

I've tried to explain to my sweetie... if you haven't grown up by age 60 - you don't bloody have to! She, however, remains hopeful.

With the large number of ol' pharts at the Boat Festival this last weekend, the subject of age inevitably arises. And... once again... several folks expressed disbelief about how old I am. Everyone guesses younger. I put it down to the full head of hair, and the chatty/vivacious/flirty attitude. My sweetie says no. She claims is just an accidental side-effect of my lifelong commitment to immaturity. As argumentative as y'all know me to be... I have no comeback to that one.

David G
09-10-2018, 03:20 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40948948_2025194240845879_5340829173021671424_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=08453019fa47ccb3e1b0649d916175b7&oe=5C36F735

Joe (SoCal)
09-10-2018, 03:26 PM
I tried to be agreeable, but...

You've have now posted more times than me. I did not create it, and I don't need a moral lesson from someone who calls the first lady a whore...

WHATABOUTISM

Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TejoMjHk3x0

David G
09-10-2018, 03:47 PM
Joe, Joe, Joe... what can we say to you?

Ok... what we can say is 'precisely'. <G>

David G
09-10-2018, 07:58 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41303840_1872424902794609_4289034576069656576_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_eui2=AeEcXGAGBPUHtDY_p7OcEAOr6nMynSpPgOuAsqGfV GpSxfeb31XhyuxyWG9BI_aQi5W3--7Q89rbd1k3PahxdjOL_hRMk-GeddyuIAgrf4AZWQ&oh=b6e11f06e3638a74ecdff2ff8c214b10&oe=5BEEC859

Joe (SoCal)
09-10-2018, 08:04 PM
^ This Y>

John of Phoenix
09-10-2018, 10:57 PM
To paraphrase,

"reds, you ignorant sluts."

BrianW
09-10-2018, 11:07 PM
WHATABOUTISM

Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.


I'm on record in the Bilge, if you wish to look it up, as a defender of Colin's right to kneel during the national anthem.

I'm also on record as having never called a first lady a whore.

I kept it classy San Diego... you have not. In fact I don't think you give a single whit as to the Tillman's family, until it suited your needs. Myself, I've flown over the battlefield he was killed in, and while it was friendly fire, I'd never consider that a debate point concerning his value system. He sacrificed all, more than Kapernick can ever fathom, and how he was killed is not the point.

I posted that meme not knowing his families desires, and I said I respected there desires and let it go. But you're the one who reposted the meme after I acknowledged their wishes.

Colin Kapernick has sacrificed nothing.

He can kneel for others... but not for himself.

Joe (SoCal)
09-10-2018, 11:28 PM
I never called Melania a whore. I said Michelle looked as though she knew how to use a hoe. ;) It's just a testament to my subtle subliminal prose that you ASSUMED that I outright called the called a first lady a whore. :D It seems like you connected the dots all on your own.

More innocent unarmed black men have been KILLED in our own country by white police. Killed exactly just as dead as Tillman. The only difference is his death was artificially celebrated. I don't care if you've flown your whirly bird as a "Contract Man" over the same place he was gunned down by his own. I've lived in places where getting pulled over while driving black would lead to the same result.

Kaepernick IS kneeling for OTHERS and NOT himself - THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT

Canoeyawl
09-11-2018, 12:10 AM
I tried to be agreeable, but...

You've have now posted more times than me. I did not create it, and I don't need a moral lesson from someone who calls the first lady a whore...

I don't think anyone here but you has called her a whore...

Maybe a moral example from our president?
(You don't don't have any problems with lying or cheating do you?)

David G
09-11-2018, 12:48 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41472424_2691184134225881_47469567693291520_n.png? _nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeG8Bd3PAIY3Lu_Xz7YZ_0qHVfuzferk9N457Cf8H uHVw0Q74bHM0q09NHJtpc8eFV05QBnh61pqLTBJVcdZrtfhtbe 0RcUvdFU-brXqrCy-gg&oh=86bc785cc9e000e8520b9f2e4b5d28f9&oe=5C2E0946

David G
09-12-2018, 11:10 PM
Extremist mayor who issues a ban on buying Nike gear... steps on his own (lower lip, yeah... let's say 'lip') and has to reverse his proclamation.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mayor-lifts-nike-ban-louisiana-town-following-outcry-bring-city-back-together-014152881.html

David G
09-14-2018, 09:59 PM
A very good question --

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41779810_1887757704642051_3692973070496038912_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_eui2=AeEP8CIoKgj_VzefMgJk9MFYgMB4QCYm0qDbfEqLA g7B4Kli01a_TxZW-PjJr6yry9Xr8SMpz-GtHY3ii8qmwlNUmxX8vW1pKuVvFQ6GXPKNyA&oh=81c927aa84897382a37836a87fbdef2e&oe=5C3B0DB4

BrianW
09-16-2018, 12:26 AM
I never called Melania a whore. I said Michelle looked as though she knew how to use a hoe. ;) It's just a testament to my subtle subliminal prose that you ASSUMED that I outright called the called a first lady a whore. :D \

Really?



https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40685773_2289209067838801_8422721310324424704_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_eui2=AeGSseo0i0jjeumen1bebOE4Jh1Zj-IDqjdFTEE1u2MN79jjnzs7GgMNig3ePE35qVKoG19VnPXRgSPi OQ_ZoI0NL60nufVSJ19c-s4oQpVAmw&oh=194fb8ec2b7133bde390f47aca91ae8c&oe=5C291DCA

Compare it to this picture of Michelle Obama doing the same. See the difference? That's the difference between the two parties


Michelle’s kinda hot in her gardening cloths.


Michelle's just kinda hot.


Was just thinkin the same thing.


Me 3


Obviously one knows how to use a hoe and the other ..........


I like you brother, but your bull****ting the wrong crowd.

Kevin T
09-16-2018, 08:54 AM
Really?



[/B]I like you brother, but your bull****ting the wrong crowd.


Really? Neither woman actually has a hoe in her hand and one is walking across soft earth in heels. This is a debate?

David G
09-16-2018, 09:08 AM
Really? Neither woman actually has a hoe in her hand and one is walking across soft earth in heels. This is a debate?

Well... there IS some debate. But the 'outrage' about gardening implements and slut-status is mostly just an attempted distraction from discussion of the Nike/Kneeling thing. When ya gots nuttin'.... you goes wit wat ya gots.

Joe (SoCal)
09-16-2018, 11:14 AM
Really?



[/B]I like you brother, but your bull****ting the wrong crowd.

hoe - Hoe or HOE may refer to: Hoe (food), a Korean dish of raw fish. Hoe (letter), a Georgian letter. Hoe (tool), a hand tool used in gardening and farming. Backhoe, a piece of excavating equipment.

?????

Garret
09-16-2018, 11:18 AM
hoe - Hoe or HOE may refer to: Hoe (food), a Korean dish of raw fish. Hoe (letter), a Georgian letter. Hoe (tool), a hand tool used in gardening and farming. Backhoe, a piece of excavating equipment.

?????

You get the Alfred E Neuman award today Joe... ;)

Jimmy W
09-16-2018, 11:28 AM
(JACKSON, Miss.) — Mississippi’s public safety commissioner disclosed Saturday that state police will no longer buy Nike products, saying the athletic apparel maker is unpatriotic and fails to support those in uniform.

“As commissioner of the Department of Public Safety, I will not support vendors who do not support law enforcement and our military,” Commissioner Marshall Fisher said in a statement Saturday to The Associated Press.

It isn’t immediately clear how much gear the state police agency buys from Nike or if it purchases directly from the athletic apparel maker. Department spokesman Warren Strain said the department has bought shoes and shirts from the company, as well as tactical training uniforms.

But Mississippi’s Republican establishment is jumping to support the cause, with Gov. Phil Bryant lauding his appointee’s decision.

“I support the commissioner’s decision,” Bryant said in a statement. The governor said the commissioner has the right to choose vendors his department does business with “and it’s not going to be a company that pays an individual who has slandered our fine men and women in law enforcement.”

http://time.com/5397327/mississippi-agency-nike-kaepernick/

I just tried to send a message to the governor. When I hit send, it said there was an error and it wasn't sent. http://www.governorbryant.ms.gov/Pages/Contact.aspx

David G
09-16-2018, 11:56 AM
(JACKSON, Miss.) — Mississippi’s public safety commissioner disclosed Saturday that state police will no longer buy Nike products, saying the athletic apparel maker is unpatriotic and fails to support those in uniform.

“As commissioner of the Department of Public Safety, I will not support vendors who do not support law enforcement and our military,” Commissioner Marshall Fisher said in a statement Saturday to The Associated Press.

It isn’t immediately clear how much gear the state police agency buys from Nike or if it purchases directly from the athletic apparel maker. Department spokesman Warren Strain said the department has bought shoes and shirts from the company, as well as tactical training uniforms.

But Mississippi’s Republican establishment is jumping to support the cause, with Gov. Phil Bryant lauding his appointee’s decision.

“I support the commissioner’s decision,” Bryant said in a statement. The governor said the commissioner has the right to choose vendors his department does business with “and it’s not going to be a company that pays an individual who has slandered our fine men and women in law enforcement.”

http://time.com/5397327/mississippi-agency-nike-kaepernick/

I just tried to send a message to the governor. When I hit send, it said there was an error and it wasn't sent. http://www.governorbryant.ms.gov/Pages/Contact.aspx

Ignorance and venality are still among us.

ETA - My message went thru.

Jimmy W
09-16-2018, 12:23 PM
Ignorance and venality are still among us.

ETA - My message went thru.

3 tries all ended with "Sorry, an error occurred while processing your request. ".

Canoeyawl
09-16-2018, 01:10 PM
Maybe Mississippi will get a new governor out of this!

Jimmy W
09-16-2018, 01:33 PM
Maybe Mississippi will get a new governor out of this!

Incumbent Republican Governor Phil Bryant is ineligible to run for a third term due to term limits. The repugs will probably find another as bad and they will likely win again.

http://www.biostat.umn.edu/~greg-g/Election/ms_2016.png

Paul Pless
09-16-2018, 01:41 PM
. . .and it’s not going to be a company that pays an individual who has slandered our fine men and women in law enforcement.

Where has Nike slandered members of law enforcement? For that matter, where has Kaepernick slandered law enforcement?

anybody? bueller? bueller??

maybe bdub will stop arguing about garden implements long enough to give the question a go. . .

Jimmy W
09-16-2018, 01:45 PM
By the way. If you change the subject to look appreciative, the message will go through.

David G
09-16-2018, 03:38 PM
By the way. If you change the subject to look appreciative, the message will go through.

Wasn't my trick. I was frankly condemnatory.

Pointed out that CK's stated position was the protest was about racial inequity. Mentioned that he's stated it had nothing to do with disapproval of flag, etc. Said his interpretation was either remarkably ignorant, or deplorably, cynically, venal.

Finished by saying this sort of thing must be why my Alabama friends say, 'At least we're not from Mississippi'.

Jimmy W
09-19-2018, 01:35 AM
https://www.wapt.com/article/governor-bryant-facing-backlash-over-nike-ban/23307352


The Mississippi chapter of the ACLU issued a statement Tuesday:

"Nike recently featured Colin Kaepernick prominently in a new advertisement campaign. Kaepernick took a knee during the National Anthem to bring attention to the lack of accountability of law enforcement officers who kill unarmed black men and boys. President Donald Trump has tried to divide our country by re-framing the lawful protest as unpatriotic and disrespectful of the military and an assault on law enforcement. In response to Nike’s ad, Commissioner of Public Safety Marshall Fisher and Governor Phil Bryant joined President Trump in his divisive culture war by implementing and supporting a ban by the Mississippi Department of Public Safety on the purchase of Nike products. The below quote can be attributed to ACLU of Mississippi Executive Director and retired U.S. Army Colonel Jennifer Riley Collins:

“Mississippi has a long history of failing to acknowledge and hold accountable those who commit injustices against black and brown people and other ethnic minorities. Commissioner Fisher’s decision to not purchase Nike products is yet another attempt to change the narrative and refuse to acknowledge that black and brown people are disproportionately being killed at the hands of law enforcement without accountability.

“Like, Marshall Fisher, I too served this nation in uniform. I did so proudly and honorably in peace and war because I believe that every American should have the right to exercise the freedoms for which I fought. Both governmental officials should be reminded that they represent all of Mississippi and are sworn to uphold the constitution, which includes the freedom of speech and right to peaceful protest.

“Commissioner Fisher, with the governor’s aid, is trying to use the power of his public office to prevent others from expressing their support for Colin Kaepernick. Commissioner Fisher’s decision is a clear response to political speech with which he disagrees. The most fundamental precept of the First Amendment is that the government cannot suppress one side of a public debate. The government cannot impose ideological litmus tests on government contractors.

“About 75 years ago, the Supreme Court held in the Barnette decision that ‘no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.’ Mississippians individually can use their power in the marketplace to express their satisfaction or dissatisfaction and advocate for or against political, social, and economic change. We saw this during the Boston Tea Party, the Montgomery bus boycott, and the campaign to divest from businesses operating in apartheid South Africa. The government and our state leaders in their official capacity, including Marshall Fisher and Governor Bryant, however, cannot participate in unconstitutional efforts to stamp out First Amendment-protected campaigns.

“Whatever you may think about Nike or Colin Kaepernick, political protests are a legitimate form of non-violent speech, and are protected by the First Amendment. When Kaepernick took a knee, it was not in opposition to law enforcement or the military nor was it disrespectful to this country. It was in protest of the pervasive racial injustice that still remains in our country. If Mississippi is to ever escape the vestiges of its divided past and move forward to become a place of hospitality and opportunity for all, our state’s leaders must focus on legitimate governmental issues.”"

The organization says that Bryant's support of the Nike ban is a violation of the First Amendment right of free speech.