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Paul Pless
07-17-2018, 07:39 AM
So, this continues through to this day. But what was the impetus back in the Sixties especially, for front men and lead guitarist to wear women’s clothing, especially tight stretchy pants and blouses. Mick Jagger did it, David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix, etc. etc.

Why? Where did this conscientious decision come from? What was the statement?

skuthorp
07-17-2018, 07:48 AM
Costume, designed to shock or offend the previous generation. Quite apart from the fact that most of the early stuff was reworking of previously forbidden black blues music or imitations of. Think Nick Larocca and the ODJB. Black music by white musicians, the previous generation didn't like it then either.
Tight pants, winkle pickers, duck tail haircuts, leather jackets. I think it just developed from there. Anyway, when it came to dressing up a band women always had the best clothes and the best designers.

BrianY
07-17-2018, 07:55 AM
The only reasonable answer is that they were all closeted homosexuals.

Ian McColgin
07-17-2018, 07:58 AM
I never thought then that tight pants and loose shirts was in any way fem. A school mate of mine who went on to a real rocker career put it:

"I want my Levis so tight they don't just show my sex, they show my religion too."

Jim Ledger
07-17-2018, 08:02 AM
I never thought then that tight pants and loose shirts was in any way fem.


Even if the pants were made of satin? With a feather boa and platform heels?:D

Art Haberland
07-17-2018, 08:03 AM
It's all part of "show business". It's hard to describe beyond that, but on stage you need to be more flamboyant. You actions, your dancing, your speaking, and even your singing need to be turned up to "11" for the audience to get sucked into your performance. Clothes are a big part of that. Tight pants exaggerate the strength and build of the legs (and the sex), loose shirts (blouses) can be used to draw attention to the upper body. Long hair is part of the "bad boy" narrative.

It's meant to shock, awe, and work with the act for maximum effect.

Ian McColgin
07-17-2018, 08:14 AM
And it is true that about then swinging bi was becoming chic.

As put a generation earlier - because every generation has this . . .

If driving fast cars you like,
If low bars you like,
If old hymns you like,
If bare limbs you like,
If Mae West you like,
Or me undressed you like,
Why, nobody will oppose.
When ev'ry night the set that's smart is in-
Truding in nudist parties in
Studios.
Anything goes.

skuthorp
07-17-2018, 08:16 AM
I saw an interview with a very conservatively dressed brain surgeon tonight. Operates to Bob Dylan sound track. Old hippy evidently………...:ycool:

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 08:27 AM
It's all part of "show business". It's hard to describe beyond that, but on stage you need to be more flamboyant. You actions, your dancing, your speaking, and even your singing need to be turned up to "11" for the audience to get sucked into your performance. Clothes are a big part of that. Tight pants exaggerate the strength and build of the legs (and the sex), loose shirts (blouses) can be used to draw attention to the upper body. Long hair is part of the "bad boy" narrative.

It's meant to shock, awe, and work with the act for maximum effect.

Oddly enough, for me, the more a band is into that kind of thing, the lower the odds I'll like their music. I don't mind a good multimedia show enhancing the music (e.g. Pink Floyd), but I don't go to shows to see someone dress silly and dance, I go to shows to hear well-written songs performed by good musicians. Cawk rawk, hair metal, and the like are just ridiculous, at least IMNSHO.

Art Haberland
07-17-2018, 08:37 AM
I think you misunderstand Orca (or I was not clear) ALL shows are about the show. Unless you are Jewel who sits demurely on her stool for the whole time, all musicians move about on stage. They outfits are designed to give an impression about them. Classical and Operatic singers and musicians dress "to the nines" because that is what is expected. The few crooners still out there generally dress in an open collar and suitjacket and most rock and rollers stuff like the "bad boy" stuff because it does make them look hyper masculine.

Peerie Maa
07-17-2018, 08:42 AM
It was just Glam Rock.
Just like punk was torn cloths and safety pins
I'll be the Grand ol Opry went through a phase of bib fronted overalls and sweatshirts.

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 09:09 AM
I think you misunderstand Orca (or I was not clear) ALL shows are about the show. Unless you are Jewel who sits demurely on her stool for the whole time, all musicians move about on stage.

Dude, I'm a musician; I get what you're saying. I'm saying that I prefer musicians who dress like ordinary people and get up there and do their thing - a lot of them sitting down - to musicians who feel the need to dress in outrageous costumes or otherwise put on a flamboyant show. It's just not my thing.

Memphis Mike
07-17-2018, 09:10 AM
Keith Richards once said that he would wake up in a hotel room and just dress in whatever was available. Often it was a girl's clothes. :D He said it didn't make any difference to him.

mmd
07-17-2018, 09:16 AM
Yup, bands that look like girly-girls need to be shunned. A proper rock band ought to dress appropriately, ike these guys:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/static/article/news/7/69997_0_wide_ver1513380710.jpg@642

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 09:19 AM
I find that sort of thing equally silly.

Paul Pless
07-17-2018, 09:19 AM
Yup, bands that look like girly-girls need to be shunned. A proper rock band ought to dress appropriately, ike these guys:



suk suk suk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttdZjL5NWCc

amish rob
07-17-2018, 09:21 AM
Yup, bands that look like girly-girls need to be shunned. A proper rock band ought to dress appropriately, ike these guys:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/static/article/news/7/69997_0_wide_ver1513380710.jpg@642

Who needs to learn to play, or write great songs?

Peace,
Robert

P.S. Yes, I recognize stinkknot. Blech. :)

amish rob
07-17-2018, 09:22 AM
suk suk suk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttdZjL5NWCc

Oh, my. Hard to get two worse bands on the same stage. You ever heard Dave Mustaine’s take on de-tuned guitars? Hahaha.

Peace,
Robert

isla
07-17-2018, 09:24 AM
The feather boa, frilly shirts, long hair, wearing bells and beads etc. were all part and parcel of the hippy image.

I always thought the rhinestone suits designed by Nudie Cohn for country singers were a bit naff.

https://www.tabletmag.com/wp-content/files_mf/nudie_cohn_053012_620px.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/f2/d0/44f2d094f5d167ea7fde7feada9f40f6.jpg

Jim Bow
07-17-2018, 09:24 AM
Never pass up a chance to see Chris Isaak
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/53/68/c3536899d595b1c9e0f095c5fbf28889.png

Bob (oh, THAT Bob)
07-17-2018, 09:25 AM
"They're not women's clothes, they're mine, I bought them." - Eddie Izzard

Hendrix would dress pretty flamboyantly. No denying he rocked the house. Same for Stevie Ray Vaughn, who, more than anyone, continued the themes of Hendrix in both music and style.

amish rob
07-17-2018, 09:34 AM
That Korn cover is so terrible, I had to put on some good metal. This is 25 years old, but topical, still.

And, these dudes can play. RIP Nick Menza.


https://youtu.be/9d4ui9q7eDM

Peace,
Robert

David G
07-17-2018, 09:38 AM
Interesting question. I'd say 'show biz'... except that the lead guitarist & singer in our little high school band had a bit of a theatrical look all day every day. In his case - the tightest of pegged black jeans and blousy shirts - often in vivid colors... or tight black shirts with plunging necklines. Lotta talent. Lotta issues (alcohol & heroin). Remembering back - I think I viewed his clothing choices are reflective of the persona he was trying to create as a life raft out of his old life - to the extent I gave it any thought.

mmd
07-17-2018, 09:38 AM
https://www.washingtonian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/WBcvr-front1.jpg

John Smith
07-17-2018, 09:47 AM
My question about Rock & Roll is a bit different.

I think of the range of music it included and find it hard to define. Johnny B Goode, Great Balls of Fire, and Love me Tender were all played on Rock & Roll stations.

Jim Bow
07-17-2018, 09:55 AM
Perhaps Mr. Joel could speak up:

What's the matter with the clothes I'm wearing?
"Can't you tell that your tie's too wide?"
Maybe I should buy some old tab collars?
"Welcome back to the age of jive
Where have you been hidin' out lately, honey?
You can't dress trashy till you spend a lot of money"
Everybody's talkin' 'bout the new sound
Funny, but it's still rock and roll to me
What's the matter with the car I'm driving?
"Can't you tell that it's out of style?"
Should I get a set of white wall tires?
"Are you gonna cruise a miracle mile?
Nowadays you can't be too sentimental
Your best bet's a true baby-blue Continental"
Hot funk, cool punk, even if it's old junk
It's still rock and roll to me
Oh, it doesn't matter what they say in the papers
'Cause it's always been the same old scene
There's a new band in town, but you can't get the sound
From a story in a magazine
Aimed at your average teen
How about a pair of pink sidewinders
And a bright orange pair of pants?
"Well, you could really be a Beau Brummel, baby
If you just give it half a chance
Don't waste your money on a new set of speakers
You get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers"
Next phase, new wave, dance craze, anyways
It's still rock and roll to me
Oh, what's the matter with the crowd I'm seeing?
"Don't you know that their out of touch?"
Well, should I try to be a straight-A student?
"If you are then you think too much
Don't you know about the new fashion, honey?
All you need are looks and a whole lotta money"
It's the next phase, new wave, dance craze, anyways
It's still rock and roll to me
Everybody's talkin' 'bout the new sound
Funny, but it's still rock and roll to me

Breakaway
07-17-2018, 10:53 AM
That's entertainment.

Kevin

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 10:57 AM
That's entertainment.

Kevin

A police car and a screamin' siren
Pneumatic drill and ripped-up concrete
A baby wailing, a stray dog howling
The screech of brakes and lamplight blinking


That's entertainment
That's entertainment


A smash of glass and the rumble of boots
An electric train and a ripped-up phone booth
Paint-splattered walls and the cry of a tomcat
Lights going out and a kick in the balls


I say that's entertainment
That's entertainment


Days of speed and slow-time Mondays
Pissing down with rain on a boring Wednesday
Watching the news and not eating your tea
A freezing cold flat with damp on the walls


I say that's entertainment
That's entertainment


Waking up at 6 A.M. on a cool warm morning
Opening the windows and breathing in petrol
An amateur band rehearsing in a nearby yard
Watching the telly and thinking 'bout your holidays


That's entertainment
That's entertainment


Waking up from bad dreams and smoking cigarettes
Cuddling a warm girl and smelling stale perfume
A hot summer's day and sticky black tarmac
Feeding ducks in the park and wishing you were far away


That's entertainment
That's entertainment


Two lovers kissing masks a scream of midnight
Two lovers missing the tranquility of solitude
Getting a cab and travelling on buses
Reading the grafitti about slashed-seat affairs


I say that's entertainment
That's entertainment

Breakaway
07-17-2018, 11:03 AM
^The Jam? Cool!

I had Fred Astair and Oscar Levant in mind when I typed my post.

"Anything goes."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6gX37d2eP8

Kevin

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 11:07 AM
I had Fred Astair and Oscar Levant in mind when I typed my post.

Not really familiar with them. I mean, I know Astaire's name, of course, but I don't think I've ever seen him perform.

oznabrag
07-17-2018, 11:32 AM
It was just Glam Rock.
Just like punk was torn cloths and safety pins
I'll be the Grand ol Opry went through a phase of bib fronted overalls and sweatshirts.

And you would win that bet!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex9OnGL55ic


Never pass up a chance to see Chris Isaak
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/53/68/c3536899d595b1c9e0f095c5fbf28889.png

Definitely.

I seem to remember that Isaak released a couple of albums which were well received. I recall thinking that here was a damned competent player with some fairly solid songwriting and a decent voice.

Then he dropped off the face of the Earth.

Ten years later, it turned out he had been woodshedding it in Northern California, and Oh My God, the transformation from decent, solid, competent artist to Monster Talent just blew me away.

amish rob
07-17-2018, 12:02 PM
And you would win that bet!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex9OnGL55ic



Definitely.

I seem to remember that Isaak released a couple of albums which were well received. I recall thinking that here was a damned competent player with some fairly solid songwriting and a decent voice.

Then he dropped off the face of the Earth.

Ten years later, it turned out he had been woodshedding it in Northern California, and Oh My God, the transformation from decent, solid, competent artist to Monster Talent just blew me away.


He rode my surfboard once. He asked while we were in the lineup. Then, when he came back out, he told me what a nice board it was.
Then I realized WHO he was. Up until then, he was just a nice seeming guy I thought I might have to swap boards with if he bolted.
Haha.

Peace,
Robert

Breakaway
07-17-2018, 12:34 PM
Not really familiar with them. I mean, I know Astaire's name, of course, but I don't think I've ever seen him perform.

Here are the lyrics:

The clown with his pants falling down
Or the dance that's a dream of romance
Or the scene where the villain is mean
That's entertainment!
The lights on the lady in tights
Or the bride with the guy on the side
Or the ball where she gives him a roar
That's entertainment!
The plot can be hot, simply teeming with sex
A gay divorcee who is after her ex
It can be Oedipus Rex
Where a chap kills his father
And causes a lot of bother
The clerk who is thrown out of work
By the boss who is thrown for a loss
By this girl who is doing him dirt
The world is a stage,
The stage is a world of entertainment!

It might be a fight like you see on the screen
A swain getting slain for the lot of a queen
Some great Shakespearean scene
Where a ghost and a prince meet
And everyone ends in mincemeats
The gag may be waving the flag
That began with a mystical hand
Hip hooray, the American way
The world is a stage,
The stage is a world of entertainment!



Kevin

Dave Hadfield
07-17-2018, 01:35 PM
Adornment is not achievement. Volume is not creativity.

Being shocking will get a person looked at, but unless there is actual talent, it won't last.

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 01:43 PM
Adornment is not achievement. Volume is not creativity.

Being shocking will get a person looked at, but unless there is actual talent, it won't last.

Yep. I'll take kick-ass music like this any day, and you'll notice they're not wearing anything particularly shocking or transgressive* (beware the hideous intro, though):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKkfENutMQg

* OK, OK, Sarah's got red runners on.

mmd
07-17-2018, 01:45 PM
^ True dat.

amish rob
07-17-2018, 01:50 PM
https://youtu.be/2G-chYSznL0

Some of the greatest talents in the sub set of rock called metal. Just listen. Try to get past the fact it’s metal. They’re intelligent words, albeit growled like an angry gnome, and these dudes practice. A lot.

Sorry for the drift. I’ve seen all these guys wear tight pants, though, so there’s IS that... :)

Peace,
Robert

Chip-skiff
07-17-2018, 01:53 PM
https://i.imgur.com/SLGnd0t.jpg

Tom Montgomery
07-17-2018, 01:53 PM
.
Hey Paul, take a walk on the wild side.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsVLIiI8Vfo

mmd
07-17-2018, 01:54 PM
https://i.imgur.com/SLGnd0t.jpg

That's funny.

Too close to home, but funny.

amish rob
07-17-2018, 01:59 PM
https://youtu.be/jadvt7CbH1o
I’ll spare you all GWAR and use the ultimate example of looking weird and being genius.
One day everyone else will get it, too.

Peace,
SpudBoy

Chip-skiff
07-17-2018, 02:03 PM
I take it as reverse psych: they were signalling that they were such total studs that they could wear girls' clothes, no problem.

When I was in a soul band, mostly black, I asked the bass player how come he and Fred (the lead singer, who was a football jock) liked to sing in such high voices.

He said it was a way of signifying that they were so badass that the usual standards didn't apply. He also said it drove women wild: 'whining for pussy' was the phrase he used.

Tom Montgomery
07-17-2018, 02:03 PM
Thanks Rob. I can't remember the last time I saw Booji Boy.

amish rob
07-17-2018, 02:06 PM
https://youtu.be/tu-NvEec8y8
Last one, I promise. Me and Quadzilla love these guys.
And Gojira.


Peace,
Robert

amish rob
07-17-2018, 02:09 PM
Thanks Rob. I can't remember the last time I saw Booji Boy.
Haha.
If you haven’t, get a hold of Hadcore. It’s stuff Brian Eno and David Bowie thought was too weird to be on the album. :)

Peace,
Golden Energy

John Smith
07-17-2018, 02:48 PM
Not really familiar with them. I mean, I know Astaire's name, of course, but I don't think I've ever seen him perform.

You'cw missed something then.

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 03:13 PM
https://youtu.be/jadvt7CbH1o
I’ll spare you all GWAR and use the ultimate example of looking weird and being genius.
One day everyone else will get it, too.

Peace,
SpudBoy

Yeah, I make exceptions for DEVO, and Talking Heads, and a few others.

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 03:16 PM
You'cw missed something then.

So I'm given to understand. On balance, though, I'm pretty sure life without television is better. Among the things I've missed: advertising, propaganda, cultural conditioning...

mmd
07-17-2018, 03:21 PM
...and Ken Burns documentaries, and live broadcasts from the Met, and Land and Sea, and PBS, and the Knowledge Channel, and so much more. Not all TV is bad.

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 03:22 PM
...and Ken Burns documentaries, and live broadcasts from the Met, and Land and Sea, and PBS, and the Knowledge Channel, and so much more. Not all TV is bad.

I know. I just think life is better without. Others' lives may be different.

John Meachen
07-17-2018, 03:51 PM
Most of the new music I encounter is played on the radio and you can't tell what the performers choice of clothing might be.The criterion should be whether the music is worth listening to.

mmd
07-17-2018, 04:00 PM
Excuse me for a moment of extreme thread drift, but riffing off of John's post above and his exhortation (which I agree with) that "The criterion should be whether the music is worth listening to", I am reminded of a similar lesson about visual art - specifically photography - that I learned from an instructor:

"A good photograph does not need explanation; not a written description on a card next to it on the wall, nor a presentation and explanation by the photographer. It should stand alone as its own statement and explanation. If it cannot do that, it is not a good photograph. Put a line of photographs at eye level in a long, busy, corridor. Most people will blithely pass by all of the photographs, but some will stop to look closely at a few of them. Those are the good photographs - the ones that can stop a casual passerby from their daily routine for a closer look."

Breakaway
07-17-2018, 06:21 PM
Yep. I'll take kick-ass music like this any day, and you'll notice they're not wearing anything particularly shocking or transgressive* (beware the hideous intro, though):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKkfENutMQg

* OK, OK, Sarah's got red runners on.

They are wearing the uniform of their genre as boldly as Bowie wore androgynous space suits and eye makeup when he was Ziggy.

( And what's with that accordion? Its done in red toilet seat with silver sparkly trim! Don't they come in black! ;) )

Kevin

Kevin

Ted Hoppe
07-17-2018, 06:37 PM
He rode my surfboard once. He asked while we were in the lineup. Then, when he came back out, he told me what a nice board it was.
Then I realized WHO he was. Up until then, he was just a nice seeming guy I thought I might have to swap boards with if he bolted.
Haha.

Peace,
Robert

he used to surf fort point under the Golden Gate Bridge. He would surf mid week and play haight street at night. We would exchange waves. Good times. It has been a while but used to see him a few times in Alameda as he has a house near mine on Bay Farm. He like me is an early morning runner. He was always into Asian chicks thank god so that made it safe to go see concerts for me and my girlfriend.

Memphis Mike
07-17-2018, 06:45 PM
How about the Dolls?

https://i2.wp.com/pleasekillme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ny-dolls-1st.jpg?resize=680%2C500&ssl=1

Old Dryfoot
07-17-2018, 06:49 PM
I’ll spare you all GWAR and use the ultimate example of looking weird and being genius.
One day everyone else will get it, too.

Peace,
SpudBoy
I can't leave my boy Les on the sidelines after a statement like that. :D


https://youtu.be/aYDfwUJzYQg

Breakaway
07-17-2018, 07:03 PM
How about the Dolls?

https://i2.wp.com/pleasekillme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ny-dolls-1st.jpg?resize=680%2C500&ssl=1

Guy in the middle is David Johansen, who, besides being in the New York Dolls, later performed with a horn section under the pseudonym, "Buster Poindexter," and had a huge hit with, Hot, Hot, Hot.

Kevin

carioca1232001
07-17-2018, 07:38 PM
'Cliff Bennett and the Rebel Rousers' ring a bell with anyone here, or am I just an old fogey ? :p

Like 'Cliff Richards and The Shadows' they donned standard clothing, although Bennet´s lads included sax, piano/organ besides the lead, rythm and bass guitar players

The Rolling Stones had some of Bennett´s musical plurarity in their earlier recordings on vinyl (LPs) but not in their live shows, which were essentially Mick and the other four (Charlie Watts, Brian Jones, Keith Richards and Bill Wyman).

As for artful and sensual go-go dancing - where and when was go-go dancing first put on stage or TV ? - Sandy Sarjeant in the following video is a delight :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ3vErp4BdQ

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 10:25 PM
And what's with that accordion? Its done in red toilet seat with silver sparkly trim! Don't they come in black! ;)

A few, certainly, but not many. Trust me on this, I've visited what might very well be the biggest accordion collection in the world. (If you know the Dave Barry article, that one.)

Flying Orca
07-17-2018, 10:26 PM
I can't leave my boy Les on the sidelines after a statement like that. :D

There's a lot more to Primus than scruffy underfed androgynous Englishmen. Holy crap, can that man play bass.

BrianW
07-17-2018, 11:28 PM
https://youtu.be/tu-NvEec8y8
Last one, I promise. Me and Quadzilla love these guys.
And Gojira.


Peace,
Robert

That was good!

skuthorp
07-18-2018, 02:05 AM
Ethel MERMAN…..SHOW BUSINESS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDy42HqLQZk